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[Valor]

Actually wondering if I'd like Post 3.0 Bard more than Pre 3.0. Not sure how I'm feeling about it now that I hit 50. Feels a bit more complicated than people made it out to be (having so many damage buffs is weird to me).

It's not THAT bad, just not used to it yet I guess.

I mean, it's really not that complicated. It doesn't get more complicated post 50 either, you just get penalized for everything you try to do and lose gcds all over the place. It all works out in the end, however. For the most part. Sometimes.

But no, Bard is nowhere near as bad as the memes make it seem.

Also Kagari showing off that pleb glamour still? Sheesh we need 3.2.

 

[Omni]

I'm on Ultros now, apparently o:

Also Bard is fun. I actually think I prefer the 3.0 Bard more than pre-3.0. Still needs some ability adjustments of course, but cast times aren't that bad by themselves. Plus we still have a little bit of mobility... for now.

 

[Kagari]

I mean, it's really not that complicated. It doesn't get more complicated post 50 either, you just get penalized for everything you try to do and lose gcds all over the place. It all works out in the end, however. For the most part. Sometimes.

But no, Bard is nowhere near as bad as the memes make it seem.

Also Kagari showing off that pleb glamour still? Sheesh we need 3.2.

Okay, Cloud.

 

[irfaanator]

I mean, it's really not that complicated. It doesn't get more complicated post 50 either, you just get penalized for everything you try to do and lose gcds all over the place. It all works out in the end, however. For the most part. Sometimes.

But no, Bard is nowhere near as bad as the memes make it seem.

Also Kagari showing off that pleb glamour still? Sheesh we need 3.2.

Okay, Cloud.

one's a catboy and the other is a midlander. I believe both have no room to talk

 

[Plywood]

Is there any chance of a UI update in 3.2?

 

[k1t4j]

I reached 58 last night on my DK and I have to say this MMO puts the RPG back in the genre, especially in HW.

The story was ok in ARR, but it really started to shine after the patches and from 2.3 to 2.5 it reached its peak.

HW makes everything better, I find the story is much better at picking up the pace, although I didn't quite like the "rollback" the Uldah side of the story. 2.5 was drastic and emotional it should have stayed like that, it felt a cheap trick the outcome of it.(opinions, right?)

I love the HW setting, Ishgard looks amazing and the surrounding areas are fantastic, also thank you for firing the guy that designed the 1-40ish gear in ARR because in HW all the gear looks bad ass. I did not feel like a peddler trying to save the world while playing.

Last, but not least, DK feels great playing after you come to terms with its slightly faster gameplay (compared to paladin) and it's myriad of OGCD. I'll probably finish the story content by the end of the week and let's see how it goes then. Fantastic game and I'm glad I picked it up.

 

[BadRNG]

Is there any chance of a UI update in 3.2?

What kind of UI update you hoping for? From what they said about their issues with implementing the TP bar, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of room for additions at this point.

HW makes everything better, I find the story is much better at picking up the pace, although I didn't quite like the "rollback" the Uldah side of the story. 2.5 was drastic and emotional it should have stayed like that, it felt a cheap trick the outcome of it.(opinions, right?)

You're not alone on the Uldah thing, it was one of the most common story complaints I saw with HW, one of the few major ones really. HW as a whole was well done, the pacing and focus of the story was much better. Which sort of makes sense I guess since it only had to last 10 levels to 2.0's 50.

 

[Plywood]

What kind of UI update you hoping for? From what they said about their issues with implementing the TP bar, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of room for additions at this point.

Honestly? Just kind of bored with the way the UI looks, 1.0's was fancy(looking at videos) but I guess largely impractical.

But man that party bar :x

Also if any of you 1.0er's want to reminiscence on this mess:

 

[Omni]

What is that? o.0

 

[Ken]

What is that? o.0

Says it right in the picture.

Mor Jkoub

 

[Kagari]

What is that? o.0

Despair.

 

[Arkeband]

Is there any chance of a UI update in 3.2?

I believe they were adding support for 4K in terms of HUD sizing, and some kind of indicator on maps to show where an objective is on the Z-axis.

 

[Thorgal]

thought this was nice :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDwcGCGF-ZA&feature=youtu.be



Primal fights are so awesome !

 

[Plywood]

I believe they were adding support for 4K in terms of HUD sizing, and some kind of indicator on maps to show where an objective is on the Z-axis.

Heh, framerate nosedives if I try to output the game at 1080p on my mediocre desktop so I won't dare try 4k.

Says it right in the picture.

Mor Jkoub

lol

 

[Malrend]

Finally got around to doing the first part of the Alexander story, which is huge for me as I intentionally avoided BCoB due to.. Well I suppose it was because of not wanting to "git gud". Subsequently I did feel like there was a huge hole in the story as to where Alisaie had disappeared to.

Thankfully Alexander's story seems to mostly introduce new NPCs, so that would have been less of an issue this time around. Anyway much fun.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

So is Kreitor's guide for Bards the best one out there? I've pretty much got down the openers for the other dps jobs I have, might as well bother with bowmage while I try to get ready for 3.2's raid

 

[iammeiam]

Krietor remains the go-to Bard guide. He lists both the double EA and the No Minuet opener which is really the only big decision point at the moment. Rest is just outlining the priority system, giving the text of the Only Good Macro, etc.

 

[scy]

Pretty much still the best Bard guide. Special mention to Rinchan & Aiurily's modified WM-less opener. Think it's also in Krietor's guide but might as well highlight it.

 

[Squishy3]

i can't wait for us find out in alexander that it was just allagans again

why else would oppressor summon allagan tech as reinforcements!

 

[rubius01]

why else would oppressor summon allagan tech as reinforcements!

PS3 limitations

 

[iammeiam]

Perfect solution to the atmosphere complaints with Gordias though. Have Midas floor 3 reveal the SHOCKING TRUTH that behind it all everythingisallagan.

 

[Squishy3]

PS3 limitations

PS3 has gone too far

 

[Frumix]

Perfect solution to the atmosphere complaints with Gordias though. Have Midas floor 3 reveal the SHOCKING TRUTH that behind it all everythingisallagan.

The Avatarpulator

 

[Squishy3]

The Avatarpulator

Just make it Mecha-Bahamut and have the theme be a metal version of Answers

 

[Frumix]

Just make it Mecha-Bahamut and have the theme be a metal version of Answers

Slow down, Satan!

 

[WolvenOne]

Made a reddit post yesterday, asking people what sort of changes they'd like to see made to dungeons, that, "wouldn't," dramatically alter the difficulty level.

Was really surprised how many people answered, "make it more difficult," or, "add alternate paths," or, "make dungeons like in FFXI."

Apparently a lot of peoples idea of, "spicing things up," involves SE completely abandoning it's meta.

The aformentioned reddit post.

 

[iammeiam]

I mean, dungeons in their current form are pretty much mindless busywork for which you are compensated in tomes. After like the first run or two there's nothing new/exciting/actually worthwhile about the dungeon run itself, you're just doing your chores for your daily tome allowance. They're currently tuned such that it took like... three or four PS HM runs to actually see somebody do mechanics since we just burned everything initially.

Packing them to the gills with gimmicks isn't going to do anything after the first run or two (see: SV HM, The Gimmick Dungeon, which got old just as fast as everything else.)

You can either keep dungeons the way they are to make the tome grind as painless as possible, or do something to make them actually engaging, but the ways to make things long-term engaging don't mesh with the meta SE set up.

 

[Guess Who]

Dungeons as they currently exist are garbage. The main reason I'm not subbed right now is because the idea of running the same two dungeons every day until 3.2 sounds like torture.

They desperately need to make them more engaging.

 

[WolvenOne]

I mean, dungeons in their current form are pretty much mindless busywork for which you are compensated in tomes. After like the first run or two there's nothing new/exciting/actually worthwhile about the dungeon run itself, you're just doing your chores for your daily tome allowance. They're currently tuned such that it took like... three or four PS HM runs to actually see somebody do mechanics since we just burned everything initially.

Packing them to the gills with gimmicks isn't going to do anything after the first run or two (see: SV HM, The Gimmick Dungeon, which got old just as fast as everything else.)

You can either keep dungeons the way they are to make the tome grind as painless as possible, or do something to make them actually engaging, but the ways to make things long-term engaging don't mesh with the meta SE set up.

Well, the thing is that dungeons are the casual content for this game. Yeah, they're going to get old for people that put a lot of time into this game, but you can't just take out the casual content because the mid and hard core players get bored with it over time.

To me, what people are really asking for, is content between the casual dungeon content, and the hardcore raid. Diadem was kinda meant to address that, but was way too bare-bones to really meet that task.

Which of course has very little to do with, spicing up the dungeons so they play a bit more distinctly from one another.

PS: You really don't need to run EXDR every day to cap. You can do trial roulettes, level 60 roulette, get some of your tomes from the hard-core raid, from void ark. Really, gameplay in FFXIV is entirely as varied as you decide it is right now. Sure, more dungeons that each feel a bit more distinct would be nice, but I still wouldn't need to run those dungeons a lot per week to cap.

 

[IvorB]

Dungeons as they currently exist are garbage. The main reason I'm not subbed right now is because the idea of running the same two dungeons every day until 3.2 sounds like torture.

They desperately need to make them more engaging.

I love how everyone complained about running Fractal and Neverreap for months and month so when new expert dungeons came in they made an entirely new roulette to house just Fractal and Neverreap so people could continue to run them endlessly ha ha.

Dungeons in this game are static things that never change. If they could find some way to make the experience more dynamic that would go a long way. It doesn't mean they have to be more difficult if they don't want to do that.

Edit: It's kind of the reason I haven't been logging in much these days. I was really looking forward to the relic because that's what I spent most of my time doing previously. But when I sat down to do it the most profitable thing to do is level 50 roulette. I was like 'no, Heavensward already came out so why I am back grinding Wanderer's Palace again'. Then I looked at the next roulette: Fractal and Neverreap :-(. I can't even do a roulette with the new leveling dungeons (which I would be happy to do because I haven't done them much) because they are thrown in with Sastasha and Toto Rak. The whole experience awoke a slight fatigue within me for this game.

 

[iammeiam]

The answer to "God I'm sick of old content" isn't "But there's so much variety! In addition to the dungeons you are now running 30 times this patch, you can run the dungeons you ran 30 times last patch! And the trials you have been grinding forever!" Not to mention I haven't bothered to cap eso in like... months, because I'm not the player these are targeted at.

Which of course has very little to do with, spicing up the dungeons so they play a bit more distinctly from one another.

Has everything to do with it. Whatever "spice" they come up with still has to be faceroll level, because that's the path they've picked for dungeon content in the game.

The dungeons we get now are basically straight funnels to tomes, because that's what they feel suits the casual player base best. No deviation, nothing fancy, because dungeons as they exist in this game just flat out aren't meant to be good content. They're the workmanlike filler in everyone's experience--you can say they get old for people who play this game "a lot", but realistically it's two dungeons. If you do EXDR five times a week to cap casually, for three months, that's still like 30 runs of each dungeon for even a casual player. Everything is tired by 30 runs, and gimmick sections aren't going to change that.

So there's really two questions--one is Do You Want More Gimmick Sections In Your Brainless Grind? and the other is How Do We Make Dungeons Worthwhile As Actual Content? People are more interested in the latter question than the former, because when you're on run 20 of Snowcloak HM the mandatory yeti vehicle stealth sequence isn't cool anymore, it's just another boring roadblock.

 

[WolvenOne]

Well, two things.

First: Dungeons being trash because they're faceroll, is kinda a non-starter as far as arguments go. Content that's aimed primarily at the casual end of the spectrum isn't going to be, "non," faceroll. We do need more content for mid and hard core players, but we can't really expect them to take away casual content for this purpose, considering who pays the bills and all that.

Second: Making them more varied, alternate paths, bosses, etc, is a legit critique, but it's probably going to be difficult to make dungeons like that in the 3-4 month gap between patches. I mean I know the modeling takes more time then that, but the actual encounter designs are probably mostly squeezed into the time between patches. And yes, it's ironic that in a certain regard the quick pace between patches does kinda hurt this game. Still, people go crazy when they take extra time so, the quick turn around between patches is probably here to stay.

To me, this just reinforces that we need another piece of mid-core content that isn't trials. Hopefully they fix Diadem and it becomes that content, but we'll see.

 

[scy]

Well, the thing is that dungeons are the casual content for this game. Yeah, they're going to get old for people that put a lot of time into this game, but you can't just take out the casual content because the mid and hard core players get bored with it over time.

Who said anything about outright removing the content? And, arguably, I'd say everything outside of the raid is the casual content for the game. That's been largely part of the problem, the gap between the things with dedicated matchmaking and the things without.

I feel like dungeons are at their best left in their current incarnations: Simply a funnel until you get your tomes at the end. That's their purpose and fit for most the playerbase. Whatever it is you want dungeons to be fit more of a missing category in the game rather than dressing up dungeons themselves.

Realistically, I feel like this is a good spot they could have used to find a way to scale up the older dungeons to current level 60 values and have a roulette with those. Maybe a weekly-specific batch of dungeons with something special tacked on (bonus modifiers, just add random mechanics to the bosses, etc.) with special drops.

Basically, I've just accepted dungeons as tome-sources and would rather a new space of content that is more interesting rather than making the specific tome grind interesting.

 

[IvorB]

Well, two things.

First: Dungeons being trash because they're faceroll, is kinda a non-starter as far as arguments go. Content that's aimed primarily at the casual end of the spectrum isn't going to be, "non," faceroll. We do need more content for mid and hard core players, but we can't really expect them to take away casual content for this purpose, considering who pays the bills and all that.

Second: Making them more varied, alternate paths, bosses, etc, is a legit critique, but it's probably going to be difficult to make dungeons like that in the 3-4 month gap between patches. I mean I know the modeling takes more time then that, but the actual encounter designs are probably mostly squeezed into the time between patches. And yes, it's ironic that in a certain regard the quick pace between patches does kinda hurt this game. Still, people go crazy when they take extra time so, the quick turn around between patches is probably here to stay.

To me, this just reinforces that we need another piece of mid-core content that isn't trials. Hopefully the fix Diadem and it becomes that content, but we'll see.

I don't think dungeons are trash. They're enjoyable, especially the HW ones. But the problem is the fatigue with doing the exact same thing over and over. Seriously, just a quick thing they could do: 1) pick one trash enemy at random each time-> make him "elite" -> boost his damage and HP and give him a few extra moves. 2) add wandering enemy can be found sometimes in different locations in the dungeon and maybe drops something useful. It's not going to make the dungeon Savage or anything but at least you're reducing the tedium that comes from repetition of the exact same thing over and over.

 

[Guess Who]

Second: Making them more varied, alternate paths, bosses, etc, is a legit critique, but it's probably going to be difficult to make dungeons like that in the 3-4 month gap between patches. I mean I know the modeling takes more time then that, but the actual encounter designs are probably mostly squeezed into the time between patches. And yes, it's ironic that in a certain regard the quick pace between patches does kinda hurt this game. Still, people go crazy when they take extra time so, the quick turn around between patches is probably here to stay.

People go crazy when they take extra time because they're bored of what there is to do. Then they get frustrated when the patch comes out because the new patch content is over and done with within six hours save for raids or EX trials, and within two weeks it's back to the grind for another three months.

They need to make more content. They need to make content that people will want to come back to over and over again. They need to make different kinds of content for a wider range of difficulty levels because right now all that exists is faceroll and Alex Savage. But every time this shit comes up it's batted away with "not enough dev resources" or "servers are already at capacity" or whatever. It's unacceptable for a game this size from a company this size.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Imagine the laugh I got from the WAR in my old group (who played MNK in the A3S solo tank clear video) who messaged me asking if I know a person from Ultros.

Turns out that person had gone into the FFXIV forums thread of their clear to congratulate the group... and shit talk me thinking I was the MNK in the video and had changed names. Then realised he got the wrong person!

Not going to name any names, but you know who you are, and you're a fucking moron and a coward. I hope you feel like a twat. And I'll remember it next time you send me a message asking to join a static I'm running.

 

[Sorian]

Remember when they released fantastic midcore content with Thordan EX and then a few days later they said "but don't worry! we'll be back to tedious faceroll content in 3.2!"

 

[WolvenOne]

I don't think dungeons are trash. They're enjoyable, especially the HW ones. But the problem is the fatigue with doing the exact same thing over and over. Seriously, just a quick thing they could do: 1) pick one trash enemy at random each time-> make him "elite" -> boost his damage and HP and give him a few extra moves. 2) add wandering enemy can be found sometimes in different locations in the dungeon and maybe drops something useful. It's not going to make the dungeon Savage or anything but at least you're reducing the tedium that comes from repetition of the exact same thing over and over.

Seems legit, and probably wouldn't really add anything to the development time.

Additionally, while I'd advise against big sprawling alternate paths. (Most players will pick the fastest path after a few weeks, and you're back to the same problem,) Some dead-end branches like they had in Brayflox Normal would be appreciated. That's somewhere else they could put a wandering super mob, plus you can put slightly tougher then normal mob pulls down there in exchange for getting an extra chest, and whatnot.

I am kinda curious how much more development resources those dead-end paths would cost though. We saw them in a lot of the ARR story dungeons (empty rooms, etc,) but stopped seeing them entirely after awhile.

 

[iammeiam]

Well, two things.

First: Dungeons being trash because they're faceroll, is kinda a non-starter as far as arguments go. Content that's aimed primarily at the casual end of the spectrum isn't going to be, "non," faceroll. We do need more content for mid and hard core players, but we can't really expect them to take away casual content for this purpose, considering who pays the bills and all that.

This constant championing of casuals like I want to take their toys away and send them to the corner is sort of bizarre.

My point was, functionally, dungeons as implemented in this game are content that you don't play for the content itself. You play it for the tome reward at the end. It has to be easy, because they funnel everyone through them multiple times a week. It has to be as non-irritating as possible, because making people do gimmicky irritating stuff multiple times a week is a bad plan.

Basically given the constraints of the role dungeons fill in this game, they as they are is about where they need to be. If you're talking about changing dungeons on a fundamental level, you're talking about interfering with their current bland role in the game. Adding something to 'spice' them up is pointless if it's going to be as weak as the rest of the dungeon. More or less the problem with dungeons is the problem with the meta. You can't "fix" dungeons because they're not broken for what they're meant to do.

Second: Making them more varied, alternate paths, bosses, etc, is a legit critique, but it's probably going to be difficult to make dungeons like that in the 3-4 month gap between patches. I mean I know the modeling takes more time then that, but the actual encounter designs are probably mostly squeezed into the time between patches. And yes, it's ironic that in a certain regard the quick pace between patches does kinda hurt this game. Still, people go crazy when they take extra time so, the quick turn around between patches is probably here to stay.

Is this where I bring up that we lost an entire dungeon in the expansion transition (making the repetitious nature of dungeons somehow worse)? For.... something? You can defend anything and everything that happens in the game with staffing concerns, but beyond a certain point it just stops mattering because you can't address the sparse content in the game without generating more content.

 

[Ken]

Imagine the laugh I got from the WAR in my old group (who played MNK in the A3S solo tank clear video) who messaged me asking if I know a person from Ultros.

Turns out that person had gone into the FFXIV forums thread of their clear to congratulate the group... and shit talk me thinking I was the MNK in the video and had changed names. Then realised he got the wrong person!

Not going to name any names, but you know who you are, and you're a fucking moron and a coward. I hope you feel like a twat. And I'll remember it next time you send me a message asking to join a static I'm running.

Lol.

 

[WolvenOne]

Is this where I bring up that we lost an entire dungeon in the expansion transition (making the repetitious nature of dungeons somehow worse)? For.... something? You can defend anything and everything that happens in the game with staffing concerns, but beyond a certain point it just stops mattering because you can't address the sparse content in the game without generating more content.

Oh, I agree, the game DOES need more content. Diadem was meant to address that but, well the concept clearly needs more work.

And yes, while I do believe them when they say they're looking for another battle/event designer, they need to get their crap together and get that person hired already! We desperately need just a LITTLE more fleshing out of the end-game meta.

 

[scy]

Remember when they released fantastic midcore content with Thordan EX and then a few days later they said "but don't worry! we'll be back to tedious faceroll content in 3.2!"

Which is entirely fine to have but just ... so weird that the immediate fallout from Thordan EX was "Oh, yeah, we made that a bit too hard still I guess sorry." What?

I dunno, my quick idea is simply having a Savage Dungeon series that's scaled to Current_Content_ItemLevel. Hell, it gives room for taking the dungeon set for that tier, adding 10 (or whatever to make it comparable to either Alex Normal or Tome gear, depending on how it wants to be gated) ilvl to it and letting it be dyeable too just so it adds glamour and gearing options to the game. If they want to be really lazyefficient, just reuse old dungeons and add things to them that aren't dungeon specific (i.e., doesn't matter which dungeon or boss but it now has T9 Meteors in it)! New content with a fraction of the effort! Level 60 Aurum Vale with Blighted, Allagan Rot, and Meteors. Just what we all secretly wanted.

This constant championing of casuals like I want to take their toys away and send them to the corner is sort of bizarre.

stop stealing their toys

You can't "fix" dungeons because they're not broken for what they're meant to do.

And this is really all that's left. Dungeons are, for better or worse, pretty good as a tome funnel and a resource to use for quest-related grinds. It's a fairly easy to measure timesink rather than any kind of effort. Which is fine, really. All the more reason that whatever radical "super awesome interesting!!!" dungeons really need to be more of an extra step of content instead of focusing on making the grind content more interesting initially.

 

[Kagari]

Remember when they released fantastic midcore content with Thordan EX and then a few days later they said "but don't worry! we'll be back to tedious faceroll content in 3.2!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDmA8qQKhMY

 

[WolvenOne]

One Day, in Amdapor Keep Normal

"Oh, you can do bigger pulls then that."

Okay, say when.

*Pulls all the remaining mobs upto the last boss*

Savage mode boys!!

*Blood everywhere.*

.....he never said when.

 

[Jayhawk]

If only people still farmed Diadem HM, so I could just spam that instead of dungeons for capping esoterics... or somehow being able to cap esoterics from playing Marvel Heroes.

 

[Tomat]

What if they just added esoterics to the cash shop?

4.50 USD/3000 CAD.

 

[Eldren]

If they made dungeon drops dyeable I would happily run roulettes more frequently (ok maybe like twice a day rather than once, but no more than that.) I can't indulge my inner hipster in that great new caster coat when every other caster is wearing the exact same glamour.

 

[BadRNG]

And this is really all that's left. Dungeons are, for better or worse, pretty good as a tome funnel and a resource to use for quest-related grinds. It's a fairly easy to measure timesink rather than any kind of effort. Which is fine, really. All the more reason that whatever radical "super awesome interesting!!!" dungeons really need to be more of an extra step of content instead of focusing on making the grind content more interesting initially.

I can't believe I am about to say this, but why not apply some of the relic meta to the tome grind. No no wait, I'm serious, put pitchforks down.

Keep the casual 20-25 min dungeons for people who want their easy tomes. Slow and steady weekly cap, no real challenge or thought required. BUT. Have a savage or whatever the hell you want to call it version of dungeons that vastly increase tome drop but the place is significantly harder, 30-45 min runs with actual goddamn mechanics you have to respect, DPS checks, damage that healers cannot afk fairy heal. You can cap way faster this way, but you gotta actually put some effort in. Maybe I'm the only one that would enjoy that, but if it meant I'd only run the dungeon 10 times compared to 30 and actually felt engaged I'd be all over that.

It'd be one of the few instances I'd be ok with them rehashing stuff because there are a lot of dungeon fights in this game that have the concept of an interesting encounter, it's just so undertuned that it's pointless. Would also have the added benefit of giving us challenging fights that are not 10+ min long. Let's see how they do a challenging boss that's only 4-5m like dungeon bosses are, might even be good practice for people.

Not going to name any names, but you know who you are, and you're a fucking moron and a coward. I hope you feel like a twat. And I'll remember it next time you send me a message asking to join a static I'm running.

It would of saved me time if you had named names! I had to search for the thread and then read through 3 pages of stuff, thought it was the guy that didn't know what fun is at first but realized he wasn't ultros.

Spoiler

PS. why do people edit their posts to try to hide their BS when someone quoted said BS right below. you just look worse now

 

[PhillipCostigan]

It would of saved me time if you had named names! I had to search for the thread and then read through 3 pages of stuff, thought it was the guy that didn't know what fun is at first but realized he wasn't ultros.

Spoiler

PS. why do people edit their posts to try to hide their BS when someone quoted said BS right below. you just look worse now

Yep :/ sorry though, explicit callouts probably not warranted. If people want to know who it was they can find it like you did.


For the record, I have no issue with someone having a bad opinion of me, but I would at least prefer they say it to my face so I can either work on that or just ignore them if they're being an ass. Going to another public forum to shit talk me for something that has nothing to do with them though is pretty rude and cowardly. This person never even said anything to my face (or ear I guess), and instead felt it was ok to say what he did.

 

[Vilix]

Anyone else have to wait for Wrench in the Works fate to pop up?