Glendemonium
Member
It's been confirmed on the OF (and some outlets reporting it) that they'll be making it's way to the mogstation. Just no date was set.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
It's been confirmed on the OF (and some outlets reporting it) that they'll be making it's way to the mogstation. Just no date was set.
Since signing up for the first BDO closed beta test became a last minute mess of desperation, raffles, and watching bad streams for several members of the FFXIV-GAF community...
If you want to kill time for a few days before patch 3.2, sign up for the 2nd closed beta test of Black Desert Online! It will start on the 18th.
https://www.blackdesertonline.com/events/cbt2/ApplyForm.html
If you want to kill time for a few days before patch 3.2, sign up for the 2nd closed beta test of Black Desert Online! It will start on the 18th.
https://www.blackdesertonline.com/events/cbt2/ApplyForm.html
DarknessTear
Banned
I haven't told a lie in at least a few hours.
But I also used crafted accessories with STR. OH GOD IS MY BUILD OBSOLETE NOW? I might be coming back before the patch I guess.
Honestly, at 210 I expect that the DPS ceiling will go down a little bit. However it won't go down much, because anything too dramatic would essentially be a temporary content buff at a time when they're going to want people to clear old content and move on.
So I'm expecting maybe around a 10% DPS loss for pure STR tanks going over to VIT, give or take a percentage point or two. Of course new gear means tanks will more than offset that as they get into 3.2. The thing most people are forgetting is that they had an opportunity to nerf Warrior damage before, and refused to, stating that numbers were about as intended. With this in mind a massive nerf seems unlikely.
For context, I've seen some people estimate as much as a 30% DPS loss. This would be the equivalent of swapping to pure Vit now, so I think some people are being wildly unrealistic about this.
So I'm expecting maybe around a 10% DPS loss for pure STR tanks going over to VIT, give or take a percentage point or two. Of course new gear means tanks will more than offset that as they get into 3.2. The thing most people are forgetting is that they had an opportunity to nerf Warrior damage before, and refused to, stating that numbers were about as intended. With this in mind a massive nerf seems unlikely.
For context, I've seen some people estimate as much as a 30% DPS loss. This would be the equivalent of swapping to pure Vit now, so I think some people are being wildly unrealistic about this.
Now translate this into high rankings in the next patch's YoshiP ELO system by getting the season's glamour set rewards. I'm expecting Kagari to be the highest-ranked PVP BRD in the new system.
xxczx
Member
diamond city here i come
I'm an elitist DRK that thinks this is a good, much needed, change and anyone bitching otherwise is an idiot. WHERE DO I STAND IN THE PICTURE
Unrealistic is understatement. I don't know how people can make any estimations at all, we know nothing beyond that VIT will effect more than STR and full STR will be weaker than full VIT. That's pretty much all they have said. Any thoughts beyond that are baseless.
If anything this will be a content nerf - current full VIT tanks will see big DPS boost and current STR tanks will see big survivability buff. I'll get an extra 6k HP after the switch, and that's just goddamn silly. Like I could survive nearly every attack in Alexander without cooldowns outside of Grit silly. If they don't scale Midas/future content damage way up then tank side of things going to be even easier.
Unrealistic is understatement. I don't know how people can make any estimations at all, we know nothing beyond that VIT will effect more than STR and full STR will be weaker than full VIT. That's pretty much all they have said. Any thoughts beyond that are baseless.
I think a lot of it is wishful thinking. There are still a lot of people out there that resent that tank DPS is a thing, so they hope this means it'll be nerfed out of existence.
Myself, I tend to assume the DPS ceiling will be something akin to, having a mixture of slaying and tank accessories. I'm assuming that is the sort of ceiling they were aiming for with Alexander Savage, so it'll probably be somewhere in that general vicinity.
And yea, if they do this right it'll be a nerf for existing content.
Ya I'd totally check our a lore book.
Missed the live letter due to PAX... Doesn't look like I missed much though.
Koji promised he'd have it in English for October fan fest.
He also said he didn't have time to do it and doesn't know how he's going to do it though.
TomcatTheLion
Member
Got BRD to 60 about a week ago. Now to decide whether to take MCH or WAR to 60 next.
I actually wonder if they didn't expect tanks to pick up Slaying accessories.
On a related note, I was confused for a moment when going to unweather a slaying ring for my DRK/DRG the other day and couldn't find it listed under DRK artifact gear.
Fending stuff is clearly marketed towards tanks. My guess would be that full vit tanks will be = full str tanks which would put me in the same boat, if not a similar sized boat, as Krael over there in that the whole meta is going to look wonky as hell as suddenly tanks have nearly infinite HP compared to what most are running right now.
Having max HP while doing Str specced DPS should ease some of the complaints from the vocal minority, but I just am very curious how the healing/tanking meta will end up working out in 3.2.
On a related note, I was confused for a moment when going to unweather a slaying ring for my DRK/DRG the other day and couldn't find it listed under DRK artifact gear.
Fending stuff is clearly marketed towards tanks. My guess would be that full vit tanks will be = full str tanks which would put me in the same boat, if not a similar sized boat, as Krael over there in that the whole meta is going to look wonky as hell as suddenly tanks have nearly infinite HP compared to what most are running right now.
Having max HP while doing Str specced DPS should ease some of the complaints from the vocal minority, but I just am very curious how the healing/tanking meta will end up working out in 3.2.
Well, for Savage both tanks going full Vit would make the DPS checks a lot hairier, even if both tanks had otherwise sound DPS rotations. Going full vit they roughly lose a third their DPS (according to calc other people have put out), so together that's a pretty darn substantial DPS loss.
So, yeah I think the devs were fully aware that tanks would be equipping at least a few slaying accessories for Alexander Savage, and weighted the fights accordingly. What I don't think they were expecting, was that mixing and matching Vit/Str accessories would become so common place, not to mention that crafted accessories would still be a thing after they went out of they only put in 150 crafted accessories in the expansion. I think all this stuff finally got their attention and made them realize that the accessory/main-stat situation with Tanks was kinda weird. I don't think it's really about tank DPS at all, because clearly they don't have a problem with it being a thing.
As for the meta going forward. I think the thing that needs to change the most is that raid bosses need more attacks that FORCE tanks to spend more time in their tank stance. The only reason Warriors and such sometimes posted absurd numbers in Alex, were because in a lot of those fights with proper planning Warriors could spend almost no time in Defiance. DPSing during downtime as a Warrior may be fun, but that can't really continue.
Besides, I miss those Coil tank busters that were always on the verge of giving me a heart attack. XD
They really just need to increase the amount of damage done to more proportionally match the damage/tank hp ratio we saw in coil. HW gave us a crap load more vit but bosses damage just did not scale to the same degree. AS1 doom laser thing is like the only move that actually takes a significant chunk of HP, and it's spaced out over a minute apart. That's just not enough damage happening. I simply should not be able to main tank the final fight of the tier the way I do now. Our clear yesterday I had a Grit uptime of 8.64%! Freaking Battle Litany had 10.49%!
I'm sure if you search you can find a clear of T13 with tank in 4 STR/1 crafted and only using tank stance for 9% of it, but it will probably be some pro top omega 1% group not a scrubs like us.
I am fairly confident they didn't balance fights based on tanks wearing STR gear, just based off everything they have said regarding how they balance fights. They've doubled down just recently that fights are designed with healers not DPSing, tanks only contributing damage from auto attacks/basic threat combos, and then taking potential damage from DPS (at correct ilevel) and removing 10-15%. Healer/Tank dps is supposed to help you push earlier before you hit that ilevel mark, so including STR tanks in calculations would be counter productive. But I'm also convinced they just didn't properly estimate the amount of damage possible by players vs what they wanted as check, possibly because of their super new brilliant way to test fights
not beat them
All that said, it's definitely not about tanks doing too much dps, the first time they brought it up it was about tanks being penalized because they have to get crafted gear or obtain loot they cannot even need on. I think that is really all this is about in the end, if any dps loss happens it will be because they couldn't get the math perfect to what they wanted. STR tanks have always been a thing but it's never been as popular as it is now, nor did it ever feel like a requirement to push content. The pressure from the playerbase for a change is the only reason this is happening, they've known the situation was dumb before. They just let it go because it didn't effect enough people, really only the most hardcore raiders.
Or who knows, maybe they really did never notice until now. I do get the distinct impression sometimes that the developers live in a very well fortified bubble and it takes awhile before real player, well, playstyles actually penetrate that thing. You've seen it with several classes "nah guys war/mch/brd/drg/ast/etc are fine guys, players just aren't used to them or playing them right" --> fastforward several months later "we have noticed that war/mch/brd/drg/ast/etc are underperforming, here is a buff". (My favorite excuse is still WAR's explanation later, that they weren't too weak, PLD was just too strong. That's the same fucking thing)
I'm going to guess it's one of two scenarios:
1) i210 in Midas (Normal), i220 Lore tomes, i230 Lore+1/Midas (Savage)
2) i220 in Midas (Normal), i230 Lore tomes, i240 Lore+1/Midas (Savage)
Scenario one they're sane and don't make current i210 players grind like crazy in Midas (Normal) and leave it as a catch-up/glamour/tomes farm.
Scenario two they don't learn anything from the itemization disaster that was Heavensward launch and we go back to grinding brain-dead easy raid content in between our static progression, only to replace Midas (Normal) gear a few weeks later.
My gil's on scenario two based on their previous design process.
SliceSabre
Banned
I was assuming the two dungeons we're getting were going to have ilvl210 items...
I assume it'll look more like
i220 in Midas Normal, 220 Lore tomes, 230 Lore+1/Midas Savage
Dungeon gear will likely be level 200.
This is what I was thinking it would be as well.
Gotta leave space for the second Shadow of Mhach raid.
220 M-Normal and crafted
230 Lore and 24-man
240 Lore+1 and M-Savage
There's just no other way.
More like Revenge of the Poverty raid will give i210, It's like... the one piece of content they're okay releasing that is completely and utterly dead on arrival. I suppose Void Ark being 200 left it in a decentish spot this time, so that would translate directly to 220 gear since it would be on par with unupgraded tome gear. The real reason it wasn't completely dead is because they brought out Alex Normal to fill in that dead time between launch and Savage's release, but there isn't that gap, gear or time, in 3.2.
The issue in my mind concerning raid gear dropping at 240 while people are starting at 210 is that they haven't really ever done that before. Most gaps are like what 20 ilevels? Maybe 30 at the start of 2.0's raid where you had people gearing with Darklight (while running i60 garbo) and trying to get the i90 drops, then myth came out and rendered most of that pointless. SCoB started at 90 and raid drops were 110, FCOB was 110-130 and Alexander has been ~180/190-210, kind of mirroring First Coil, especially with the catch up tomes that came out similarly to myth.
TL;DR there's no precedent for 30 ilevel gap between starting gear and end of patch gear aside from the beginning of a raid cycle. I would be surprised if that began now.
History tells us that we start at level x, tome gear is level x+10 and upgrades to x+20 where raid drops will start at x+20. I don't think Midas normal will change that base concept.
ARR had no Alex normal equivalent; I don't think you can copy paste ARR gearing patterns specifically because there's an entire tier of rewards to account for that hasn't existed. Given that the target audience will be rocking VA upgraded i210 eso when Midas Normal hits, SE would have to be incredibly dense to have Midas Normal also drop 210.
Which, given how HW has gone, is totally possible. I want to say the wider iLevel spread was mentioned early in HW though.
I'd agree with this except I think crafted will hit at 210 or 215. It'll gain its early usefulness from being meldable/overmeldable--ACC for healers, single VIT on the right for an HP boost without having to sacrifice damage; accessories hitting the same patch as the raid will be new and more powerful than the normal catch up.
Which, given how HW has gone, is totally possible. I want to say the wider iLevel spread was mentioned early in HW though.
I'd agree with this except I think crafted will hit at 210 or 215. It'll gain its early usefulness from being meldable/overmeldable--ACC for healers, single VIT on the right for an HP boost without having to sacrifice damage; accessories hitting the same patch as the raid will be new and more powerful than the normal catch up.
legendaryskitch
Member
It sucks whenever I resubscribe after a while and I want nothing more than to be playing and not working
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Angary calling 210 drop in Midas normal confirmed.
The weird thing about this is the normal mode and tome gear being released at same time, if they use the same amount of tokens/tomes as current stuff then normal mode is going to be way less appealing. It took 4 weeks to get a chest piece from normal mode, it takes 2 to get a tome one. Who is going to take the former over the latter, especially if the latter is 10 ilevels higher? It seems like everyone will just get the cheapest Alex stuff and quickly get the better tome things, add in Savage accessories and Normal becomes irrelevant even faster than it did last time. I don't get the point of wider gear tiers if the tiers are over within a couple weeks.
Also you guys forgot Sephirot EX in the tiers, what will he drop? 210 weapon?
Also you guys forgot Sephirot EX in the tiers, what will he drop? 210 weapon?
What, you can't make something like this a throw away title text comment, how the hell could anyone argue that? Please explain.
Because if you are just buying tome gear then kitting yourself completely takes quite a few weeks longer (plus weapon is always the first purchase). Midas normal would be there, just like alex normal before it, to fill in slots while waiting for the good stuff.
My guess is 215 weapon later upgradeable to 220 (later as in added to a patch at another time). With 3 210 weapons already, I think they've already hit the spectrum of stat distribution for the most part. They could sneak in a 4th (and they may because they suck) but I'm optimistic.
You explain things better than I can. Thank you. That being said, stupid gear progression seems like it's going to be the norm after that clusterfuck of 3.0. I figured that was going to be the exception, not the rule, however...
See, this is why I would make Midas drop the same gear level as the new tome gear. This way you're gearing to 220 twice as fast and have multiple avenues to gear as well as having a choice. Two sets for 220, two sets for 230. It makes more sense than having people all Lored out since that's their only option. Midas Normal gets kicked to the curb in record time.
Also Sephirot should probably drop Midas Normal level weapons. Seph + Lore weapon options for tackling Midas and pushing for upgraded Lore/Midas weapons.
Again, that's how I would do it because options are better than railroading non raiders into one gear set. If Lore is 230 base and Fiend drops 220 weapons then lol. Fuck. This sounds like a real Square Enix thing to do. It's probably going to be the case.
DarknessTear
Banned
S-E bullying me.
S-E bullying me.
Virtual eviction notice
Yeah, you will still get several pieces, it's just it will be replaced so fast that it seems rather meaningless. Even if you get weapon first, you could have chest piece by week 5. That almost completely invalidates the normal mode chest (assuming it still is min4 weeks).
Not saying no one will get the gear, I'm just failing to grasp the purpose of that whole gear tier if it's both over quickly and accompanied by it's own lockout system. It'd of been like if Darklight had a weekly cap. What does that accomplish, by the time you get a full set you can have several pieces of it's upgrade.
Not saying no one will get the gear, I'm just failing to grasp the purpose of that whole gear tier if it's both over quickly and accompanied by it's own lockout system. It'd of been like if Darklight had a weekly cap. What does that accomplish, by the time you get a full set you can have several pieces of it's upgrade.
I don't know, that's not my department, but even when we first started that didn't seem like major wall.
Those messages are a god send, I got my 3-day one over the weekend. Would of definitely been gone had it not warned me.
Crafted is going to largely fill the spot for raiders Normal did last time--and you're forgetting tome weapons. If they do what they did in Gordias and just make them three weeks of Lore, almost nobody's getting an Lore chest before week five. I'd guess Normal will be pretty popular for two to three weeks with raiders who don't go the crafted route. But I think people vastly underestimate how popular Normal was with the casual player base. The relic grind "reinvigorating" it was misleading, because it never died. By removing the lockout when they did it became the quick and easy way to gear up Alts, and even before that getting your weekly tokens from Alex normal was just generally friendlier than the 24-mans were because it tended to go quicker and if you wanted to skip a boss that week you could. So Normal was self-sustaining for a really long time for non-raiders.
Their weapon handling in 3.x was dumb and really hard to figure out how they intend to fix it, and it depends on how tome weapons work. If i220+ tome weapons require a Midas Savage drop, I think Sephirot drops an i210 weapon. If it's a straight 990 lore I'd guess i215 from Sephirot to make him relevant to raiders and worth getting alt loot for.
Apparently the belief that the last Quarantine is a death sentence/Straf stacks are fatal without a tank swap is really prevelant. Which actually explained a lot to me since I've wondered why everyone tank swaps when it's never seemed better overall/I can't think of anything risky that comes from not swapping; it looks like a lot of people hit 4 and assume you have to because everybody does it and there's a stacking debuff.
Therefor you can't only be in Grit 9% of the time, because you have to be periodically swapping into Grit for doll related things because otherwise Rin never survives leg 2.
S-E bullying me.
They're looking for their protection money.
DarknessTear
Banned
I appreciate the e-mail, but I don't really appreciate it being 45 days. Maybe 90. Not 45.
I wanted to resub right before the patch. Salt.
Yeah, I guess I could just be looking at this from wrong perspective. If you are not moving on to next raid/gear right away then it won't matter as much. If that is their aim though I wonder why not just unlock it from start, but oh well. If crafted replaces it for raiders I hope that vague comment they made in the live letter means the stuff will be dirt cheap.
Given current max dps metas and just general game history, I am surprised more people don't not-switch. Seems like every time there is a debuff fight the first instinct is to see how far you can push it, wonder why not here. DRK cooldowns in particular are so perfect for that fight as no swap MT, can have something up for every thing and just dps nearly full time. I don't know what voodoo stuff Rin does with the dolls, but way back when we'd get extra dolls or even quarantine's he seemed to survive most of the time I thought.
Oh that's what you're complaining about. Meh. I thought you quit for realsies this time? Who cares about the house at that point.
DarknessTear
Banned
After the announced changes in 3.2 I thought I might come back at least to see how things are. Not sure how into it I'm going to be with all these other games coming out. Definitely not going to spend all my time jumping around in mist anymore though!
Medium houses are fucking expensive Krael!
Weird how that works when you also increase by 10 levels.
Those were all when you've capped though? 160-180 was entirely a filler for a month.
Sure but a new expac, where you just went through leveling content, is likely going to have more of a "carousel" at the end of it. We already know the flow of this game. The dungeon gear, as an example, is going to be weaker than the old raid gear. There was no old raid gear for 3.0 which made it seem like there was a lot more loot to work through. All the same things are there this time, it's just most of us are skipping the first few steps.
I will demand concessions when everything turns out exactly as I think it would.