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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch

Ken

Member
Being a caster wasn't the new playstyle change I wanted for my gun :(

Having gotten BRD to 60 recently, I don't think the restriction of mobility is that big of a deal unless you're one of those people constantly moving around the boss for no reason other than to exercise the right of free mobility and to lose autos. You get Straighter Shot and WM-off for any significant required movement, as well as the more situational Repelling Shot.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
What? Impossible. Next you're going to tell me there's learning curves to new things.

Well in this case it's a completely different timing and mindset.
Going from WHM 50 to WHM 60 I didn't have to learn anything new.
 

Wilsongt

Member
I never raided as a BRD, but I haven't run into any troubles or hang ups as Caster Bard in any dungeons since I got it to 60. Bloodletter procs so damn much that I am able to constantly move, anyway.
 

Ken

Member
Well in this case it's a completely different timing and mindset.
Going from WHM 50 to WHM 60 I didn't have to learn anything new.

Maybe? WM didn't feel like a giant shock to me. I was still hitting largely the same buttons with slightly extra consideration of AoE.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Maybe? WM didn't feel like a giant shock to me. I was still hitting largely the same buttons with slightly extra consideration of AoE.

im bad

I think the more interesting thing is it's seemingly designed to go to the core of the planet.
boss_nass.jpg
 

suzu

Member
Having gotten BRD to 60 recently, I don't think the restriction of mobility is that big of a deal unless you're one of those people constantly moving around the boss for no reason other than to exercise the right of free mobility and to lose autos. You get Straighter Shot and WM-off for any significant required movement, as well as the more situational Repelling Shot.

nofunallowed.jpg
 

creid

Member
How does the current seasonal event work? It's not a daily repeatable thing, right? I probably won't be able to resubscribe until it's almost over and I want to make sure I can get everything.
 

MogCakes

Member
How does the current seasonal event work? It's not a daily repeatable thing, right? I probably won't be able to resubscribe until it's almost over and I want to make sure I can get everything.

You can do the whole event in 20 mins. Just ask someone to party up
 

aceface

Member
How does the current seasonal event work? It's not a daily repeatable thing, right? I probably won't be able to resubscribe until it's almost over and I want to make sure I can get everything.

One time thing, takes ~5 minutes. Have to be in a party of 2 to do it.
 

Valor

Member
Of course all that I've just wrote is nonsense and you should be saving it for when the final boss is at 2% health because there's no kill like overkill.
We joke but I have been chastised for "wasting the limit break" when i leveled dragoon because I used it to start off boss battle number 2 in one dungeon. I was told it's only used as a finishing move.

Be glad that you all got a damage boost by becoming casters. Now you all have to be aware of AoE's when you are in fights, like us SMNs.
I mean, if we're real talk and not joke talking, all ranged need to be aware of aoes all the time even in 2.0. Positioning yourself correctly and all that still happened pre wanderer's minuet. Even now it's hardly different because cast times are so short i can stand in an aoe, finish my cast, move during gcd spin, and not miss a beat.

I never raided as a BRD, but I haven't run into any troubles or hang ups as Caster Bard in any dungeons since I got it to 60. Bloodletter procs so damn much that I am able to constantly move, anyway.
I mean Bloodletter doesn't really allow freedom of movement. Straighter Shot is kind of the only way that Bards can move freely without missing gcd time. And Feint.

I was also one of the scrub bards who used WM the entire way through leveling when others turned it off. It really didn't and doesn't feel that restrictive, it just gets clunky where EA is concerned. That's pretty much the only bard related hang up I have.
 

MogCakes

Member
When I play a ranged class I wait a few moments for the melee to LB at the start of a boss fight, if they don't then I use it or wait for the ADD phase to wipe them.

Also screw using Feint, I'll take fishing for procs. Invigorate is superior anyhow (and Quelling)
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
We joke but I have been chastised for "wasting the limit break" when i leveled dragoon because I used it to start off boss battle number 2 in one dungeon. I was told it's only used as a finishing move.

And the opinion of clueless pubbies concerns you why?
Sometimes people legitimately don't know why a bard would use an LB over a melee and they accept an explanation.
 

Valor

Member
When I play a ranged class I wait a few moments for the melee to LB at the start of a boss fight, if they don't then I use it or wait for the ADD phase to wipe them.

Also screw using Feint, I'll take fishing for procs. Invigorate is superior anyhow (and Quelling)

You would be choosing between Mantra, Featherfoot, Keen Flurry, Haymaker, and Feint. Not Invigorate. Quelling is from archer so there's no cross class needed.
 

MogCakes

Member
You would be choosing between Mantra, Featherfoot, Keen Flurry, Haymaker, and Feint. Not Invigorate. Quelling is from archer so there's no cross class needed.

Oh that's right, the discussion was on BRD. I'm playing MCH so I forgot the CC are different. I still don't understand the reasoning for using Feint over trying to get more procs. Seems really situational at best.
 

iammeiam

Member
Having gotten BRD to 60 recently, I don't think the restriction of mobility is that big of a deal unless you're one of those people constantly moving around the boss for no reason other than to exercise the right of free mobility and to lose autos. You get Straighter Shot and WM-off for any significant required movement, as well as the more situational Repelling Shot.

You say this like lock-on didn't enable movement while preserving autos--which you still have to do in WM off--or the complete annoyance that is Repelling Shot interrupting your next cast if you use it strictly for movement and don't marry it to Straigher Shot doesn't exist. Freedom to constantly adjust position in regards to whatever random shit is happening or move without stutter stepping isn't nothing. All else aside, WM effectively eliminated a playstyle from the game because balance is hard.

Oh that's right, the discussion was on BRD. I'm playing MCH so I forgot the CC are different. I still don't understand the reasoning for using Feint over trying to get more procs. Seems really situational at best.

Most of the time when people use Feint it's because they haven't done the math to realize Feint under WM is bleeding TP for a lower potency attack than locking on, turning off Minuet, and doing a couple GCD of Heavy Shot + AutoAttack. If you somehow need to move enough that you can't stutter step and don't get the AA off, no-WM HS is still a really tiny potency loss (sub-10 IIRC) for 20 TP saved, and most of the time that won't happen. Exception is when you don't need to move but have EA up and no Straighter Shot; you can bleed TP on Feint for the instant cast and gain potency for the GCD.

For MCH I dunno how people justify using it.
 
Thing is I haven't played any other Triad type MMOs in recent times other than FFXIV so I have no idea how much healing/dpsing there is for healers in other recent games.

In general content I usually slap on some regen/shield (depending on WHM/SCH) then DPS to the point where I am spending more time dealing damage then I am healing.

Since I hear Healers are supposed to DPS in the savage content I assume it's not much different, maybe a little more difficult because of the damage increase but the same general concept of getting people up to full then DPSing. If that's not the case then I don't think having one type of content generally experienced by a small number of people to be the answer. If savage content for Healers means you are pretty much healing/supporting full/most of the time because it challenges you to do so then I think that should be exported to the rest of the game's group content. I think this because when I choose Healer I expect that the group content I do will challenge my ability to manage mana/heals/cooldowns to keep my party alive.

If I only have to slap some regen spells on the tank and maybe throw a couple normal heals every so often I consider that to be really boring from a Healing perspective. At that point might as well change to DPS or Tank if I'm not getting what I want from healing gameplay.

From what I remember from playing a Priest in vanilla WoW there wasn't much emphasis on DPSing even though Priest do have some damage abilities, more on keeping your party/tank alive and making sure you have enough mana for what's going on incoming damage wise.

In FFXIV's case, I often feel like a third DPS class more than a healer. Maybe some people like that but I definitely emphasize with people who want their healers to do more healing than direct damage dealing.
 

Valor

Member
Oh that's right, the discussion was on BRD. I'm playing MCH so I forgot the CC are different. I still don't understand the reasoning for using Feint over trying to get more procs. Seems really situational at best.
Feint doesn't come into the conversation on Machinist since there's no place for it. Feint is only situationally useful for Bard.

Repelling shot hasn't eaten many of my casts in a long time, but then again Repelling Shot is used much less than others because of movement required in order to execute it.

There are no Honest Bards.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Using duty roulette, dungeon loot scales to your current level or is the loot is tied to the dungeon's level?
 

scy

Member
From what I remember from playing a Priest in vanilla WoW there wasn't much emphasis on DPSing even though Priest do have some damage abilities, more on keeping your party/tank alive and making sure you have enough mana for what's going on incoming damage wise.

That's mostly since there were actual damage specs. Besides that, the fundamental design of raid healing/tank damage is different. FFXIV is a bit of an outlier due to incoming damage being bursty. Periods of low damage with the big hit; most the healing difficulty is in prioritizing heals during those moments rather than meeting raw HPS.
 

Squishy3

Member
Using duty roulette, dungeon loot scales to your current level or is the loot is tied to the dungeon's level?
Loot doesn't scale, but if you like the way it looks you can glamour it onto what you currently have. Opening the glamour menu and then clicking on whatever item you want to glamour will tell you what prism you need to glamour it.
 

Abylim

Member
Oh hey thanks for all the replies and info guys.

Reminds me of how it was in the FC, had to be part of the special group to get any kind of help.
 

suzu

Member
Oh hey thanks for all the replies and info guys.

Reminds me of how it was in the FC, had to be part of the special group to get any kind of help.

Google search says you can buy Lv55 gear from Moghome vendor. Presumably, everything else is crafted or from quests.
 

iammeiam

Member
Oh hey thanks for all the replies and info guys.

Reminds me of how it was in the FC, had to be part of the special group to get any kind of help.

Here is the sum total of my offhand knowledge about buying gear for a fresh 50 miner in HW: \_(ツ)_/¯

I'd imagine many others actively posting right now are in a similar state as most of us had out gatherers at 50 prior to HW and didn't start looking for vendor gear until later levels when we needed better stats. You basically missed out on a bunch of people probably quoting you to go "uhhhhh I don't think so but not sure".

OT tends to be dictated more by what people feel like talking about than who's doing the talking. But, hey, you got somebody to Google for you.
 
Oh hey thanks for all the replies and info guys.

Reminds me of how it was in the FC, had to be part of the special group to get any kind of help.

You can get 1 optional left-side piece from the 53/55 Miner Quests.

As two others said, you can buy the entire left side up to 55 from the Emptier of Purses" Mog at the Moghome Aetheryte.

You can buy i150 main hand tools at the Repository Node in Azys Lla.

For right side stuff and all other left side gear, you have to either craft yourself, get somebody else to craft for you, or buy on MB.
 

Abylim

Member
Here is the sum total of my offhand knowledge about buying gear for a fresh 50 miner in HW: \_(ツ)_/¯

I'd imagine many others actively posting right now are in a similar state as most of us had out gatherers at 50 prior to HW and didn't start looking for vendor gear until later levels when we needed better stats. You basically missed out on a bunch of people probably quoting you to go "uhhhhh I don't think so but not sure".

OT tends to be dictated more by what people feel like talking about than who's doing the talking. But, hey, you got somebody to Google for you.

I googled it myself, and came up dry. I couldnt find that I could purchase gear for my 50 dragoon in heavensward from google either, so I figured, foolishly, I'd ask in here for some help.

But hey, assumptions sound witty, right?
 

Abylim

Member
Google search says you can buy Lv55 gear from Moghome vendor. Presumably, everything else is crafted or from quests.

You can get 1 optional left-side piece from the 53/55 Miner Quests.

As two others said, you can buy the entire left side up to 55 from the Emptier of Purses" Mog at the Moghome Aetheryte.

You can buy i150 main hand tools at the Repository Node in Azys Lla.

For right side stuff and all other left side gear, you have to either craft yourself, get somebody else to craft for you, or buy on MB.

Thanks for the advice guys. I am farming for some Archaeoskins as we speak. A ton of people in my FC are crafters and will craft it up.

MB prices are ridic
 

BadRNG

Member
From what I remember from playing a Priest in vanilla WoW there wasn't much emphasis on DPSing even though Priest do have some damage abilities, more on keeping your party/tank alive and making sure you have enough mana for what's going on incoming damage wise.

In FFXIV's case, I often feel like a third DPS class more than a healer. Maybe some people like that but I definitely emphasize with people who want their healers to do more healing than direct damage dealing.
This is pretty much how I remember raid healing in WoW as well, but it's just designed differently here. Damage from healers, proportionally, was not as high as it is to actual dps classes in this game. That goes for tanks as well. The damage output from bosses was generally higher too, you could not afford to be dpsing for 90% of the fight, and then mana management was much bigger deal itself. Anyone remember the 5 second rule? Good times, good times.

Both healers and tanks in this game feel like DPS with added responsibility most of the time, it is one of the few major gripes I have with their battle design. There would need to be a drastic change in both how they approach fights and how jobs are designed to ever fix that though.
 

iammeiam

Member
I googled it myself, and came up dry. I couldnt find that I could purchase gear for my 50 dragoon in heavensward from google either, so I figured, foolishly, I'd ask in here for some help.

But hey, assumptions sound witty, right?

Your assumption? Because I didn't make one. I didn't object to your initial ask, just your assumption based on the lack of response. Sometimes people don't answer questions because they don't have anything to contribute, not because cool kids club.
 
That's mostly since there were actual damage specs. Besides that, the fundamental design of raid healing/tank damage is different. FFXIV is a bit of an outlier due to incoming damage being bursty. Periods of low damage with the big hit; most the healing difficulty is in prioritizing heals during those moments rather than meeting raw HPS.

This is pretty much how I remember raid healing in WoW as well, but it's just designed differently here. Damage from healers, proportionally, was not as high as it is to actual dps classes in this game. That goes for tanks as well. The damage output from bosses was generally higher too, you could not afford to be dpsing for 90% of the fight, and then mana management was much bigger deal itself. Anyone remember the 5 second rule? Good times, good times.

Both healers and tanks in this game feel like DPS with added responsibility most of the time, it is one of the few major gripes I have with their battle design. There would need to be a drastic change in both how they approach fights and how jobs are designed to ever fix that though.

Good to know my views on healing aren't completely off base. I think I prefer the raw HPS route myself as I'm having to focus more on healing things than anything else.

So they would need to change their approach to how they design content and job changes to fix this essentially.

Somehow I don't see that happening in future content. These complaints have been around for a while so if the dev team saw cause to change them my guess is it would have happened already.
 

Squishy3

Member
Good to know my views on healing aren't completely off base. I think I prefer the raw HPS route myself as I'm having to focus more on healing things than anything else.

So they would need to change their approach to how they design content and job changes to fix this essentially.

Somehow I don't see that happening in future content. These complaints have been around for a while so if the dev team saw cause to change them my guess is it would have happened already.
It's not really how much they design content, when tuning it they supposedly take the bare minimum of tank DPS and no healer DPS when deciding this stuff. The Alex Savage DPS checks from are so tight that people quickly started moving to the current DRK/WAR meta and the MT spending as much time as possible outside of the tank stance to make the DPS checks easier. Same with healers, except they want to spend as little time healing as possible.

This kind of stuff only really applies to Savage, since most of the other fights don't have anywhere near as tight DPS checks. Even the current hardest trial in the game (Minstrel's Ballad: Thordan's Bane) doesn't have as tight DPS checks as Savage Alex and is more a matter of just having everyone up for every single phase of the fight, and knowing how to deal DPS well while dealing with mechanics.

There's other clear things like the ideal A4S clear method is cheesing mechanics because cheesing them leads to less burden for everyone. It's only really A4S that seems extremely poorly designed (IIRC A3S the world first-group was hitting 1% enrage the first week and cleared that hump with the next set of gear from A1S and A2S, when Savage Alex first came out you couldn't even have a full set of i190) I also want to say they cleared A4S while doing mechanics the intended way.
 

dramatis

Member
I googled it myself, and came up dry. I couldnt find that I could purchase gear for my 50 dragoon in heavensward from google either, so I figured, foolishly, I'd ask in here for some help.

But hey, assumptions sound witty, right?
The OP has a list of sites that are very good for resources.
▼ Resources / Wikis / Guides
http://xivdb.com - A data-minded database.
http://www.garlandtools.org/db/ - A database with tools.
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Main_Page - Successor to FFXIclopedia.
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/FF14_Wiki - Another wiki for ARR.
http://www.ffxivinfo.com - Database, with guides.
http://www.ffxivguild.com/ - A general guides site.
http://ffxivdungeons.com/ - Guides for dungeons.
https://www.youtube.com/user/MTQcapture - Video guides for dungeons, raids, primals.​
With just the first two sites you can find gear for miner at your exact level and find out where to buy it, how to make it, what the stats are, etc.

You don't have to be part of a 'special group' to get any help. I find all of my item/gear, gathering/crafting, timers, and so on from just Garland Tools.
 

BadRNG

Member
It's not really how much they design content, when tuning it they supposedly take the bare minimum of tank DPS and no healer DPS when deciding this stuff. The Alex Savage DPS checks from are so tight that people quickly started moving to the current DRK/WAR meta and the MT spending as much time as possible outside of the tank stance to make the DPS checks easier. Same with healers, except they want to spend as little time healing as possible.

This kind of stuff only really applies to Savage, since most of the other fights don't have anywhere near as tight DPS checks. Even the current hardest trial in the game (Minstrel's Ballad: Thordan's Bane) doesn't have as tight DPS checks as Savage Alex and is more a matter of just having everyone up for every single phase of the fight.
You seem to have completely misunderstood what we were talking about? When we mention how content is designed, it has absolutely nothing to do with DPS checks. The point is the damage from the BOSS is so slow, or infrequent, that tanks/healers can afford to dps to the degree they do in the first place. This applies to all fights, if anything far more outside of Savage.

The fact that they claim to design fights without healer/tank dpsing in mind just makes it all the more sad, as they are essentially saying they design tanks/healers to be twiddling their thumbs doing nothing a hell of a lotta time.
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
I helped my gf finish the last dungeon of the 2.0 story, now to the 100+ fetch quests before she can enter HW.
The sad part is that she's really enjoying BRD's mobility and I don't have the heart to tell her that it won't last long.
 

Squishy3

Member
I helped my gf finish the last dungeon of the 2.0 story, now to the 100+ fetch quests before she can enter HW.
The sad part is that she's really enjoying BRD's mobility and I don't have the heart to tell her that it won't last long.
tell her to become a career archer instead
 
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