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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch

Valor

Member
You seem to have completely misunderstood what we were talking about? When we mention how content is designed, it has absolutely nothing to do with DPS checks. The point is the damage from the BOSS is so slow, or infrequent, that tanks/healers can afford to dps to the degree they do in the first place. This applies to all fights, if anything far more outside of Savage.

The fact that they claim to design fights without healer/tank dpsing in mind just makes it all the more sad, as they are essentially saying they design tanks/healers to be twiddling their thumbs doing nothing a hell of a lotta time.

Hmm. So, coming from a guy who never really played wow and understands healing in that game even less so, how was healing in that game any different than just clicking buttons to make hp go up? Was it focused on popping cooldowns for the right phases of incoming damage, using the right spells at the right times?

Real talk it kind of confused me at first why people would choose to be healers because the role in general always seems so... unsatisfying. Maybe that's just from what I know in XIV because healing most content as a dedicated healer and not dpsing is super boring because of infrequent damage, like you said. I'm just wondering how other games would break up the monotony of spamming the same healing spell over and over.
 
Hmm. So, coming from a guy who never really played wow and understands healing in that game even less so, how was healing in that game any different than just clicking buttons to make hp go up? Was it focused on popping cooldowns for the right phases of incoming damage, using the right spells at the right times?

Real talk it kind of confused me at first why people would choose to be healers because the role in general always seems so... unsatisfying. Maybe that's just from what I know in XIV because healing most content as a dedicated healer and not dpsing is super boring because of infrequent damage, like you said. I'm just wondering how other games would break up the monotony of spamming the same healing spell over and over.

It's been so long since I last played WoW.

I guess you could say it's FFXIV healing on crack?

I think you had to cleanse debuffs more often. More healing in general. More procs and separate healing abilities as well.

It was definitely more satisfying to play than FFXIV's healer lite.

Maybe someone who has more recent experience with the game could give a better picture.
 

Thorgal

Member
Welp looks like the ffxv thread has officially gone bonkers.

Now people are lining up in there requesting Kagari to ban them until March 30 :p
 

scy

Member
Hmm. So, coming from a guy who never really played wow and understands healing in that game even less so, how was healing in that game any different than just clicking buttons to make hp go up? Was it focused on popping cooldowns for the right phases of incoming damage, using the right spells at the right times?

Personally, it was the most boring thing. Just push buttons to keep up with incoming damage. It's less involved in terms of gameplay than FFXIV healing outright, not even when you get into DPSing while healing. Most the thought involved with WoW healing was keeping up with the healing needed (both in output and longevity) rather than how you actively played with your buttons.

This was olden days of WoW, though, and not after the myriad of re-works and the addition of Monk so maybe it too became a more active system. But for the longest time it was pretty much just push heals out for the duration of the fight.

Edit: And since I didn't actually answer the other part, it was basically that tankbusters weren't the scary "oh shit heal that" part of the fight. It was almost entirely all auto-attack stuff you were concerned with as the scary thing to keep up with healing wise. So just a lot of throughput rather than timing.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
8 VA runs with people consistenly failing Cthulu still no pants for DRG at the end of this

VEWhBSC.gif
 

BadRNG

Member
Hmm. So, coming from a guy who never really played wow and understands healing in that game even less so, how was healing in that game any different than just clicking buttons to make hp go up? Was it focused on popping cooldowns for the right phases of incoming damage, using the right spells at the right times?

Real talk it kind of confused me at first why people would choose to be healers because the role in general always seems so... unsatisfying. Maybe that's just from what I know in XIV because healing most content as a dedicated healer and not dpsing is super boring because of infrequent damage, like you said. I'm just wondering how other games would break up the monotony of spamming the same healing spell over and over.
I mean, in a lot of ways, it wasn't anything but clicking buttons to make HP go up. But that seems awfully reductive, you could say DPS is just clicking buttons to make HP go down.

The two biggest things separating this game's healing is the frequency of damage combined with how big the toolkits are for the healers. In this game you basically heal for specific spikes and then DPS, and furthermore MP management is often based around controlling your damage output rather than healing. Sure there are things like the inefficiency of heavy spamming medica or cure II but it's not a significant aspect. In WoW it was kind of the opposite, most of your time was spent spamming various heals on different people due to constant damage. MP management was anywhere from crucial to meaningless depending on what era you played in, but when it was important you had to pick the right heals for different situations. Most commonly the choice was between fast inefficient ones and long cast but much better on your MP, but sometimes was about smart heals early so that you could not cast at all and regenerate (at one point this was called the 5 second rule, if you made no casts for 5seconds you would begin to regenerate MP as if you were out of combat, this eventually got removed)

There's another big, fundamental, difference to this game in general too. GCDs were shorter (1.5s base), so combat was more fast paced.. Heal casts could be quite different, like it's been awhile but if I remember right Holy priest had 3 main heals that were something like 1.5s, 2.5s, and 3.5s on top of their regens, aoes, and special one-off buffs. The first was really bad for your MP but sometimes you needed that quickness, the last was powerful/good for MP but so slow that if you tried to cast it wrong time could mess you up as a lot could happen in that time span (like tank dying)

All of this is not particularly fun to everyone (see cranky robot above), but in a general sense it had a very different style of play compared to DPS or healers in this game. Most of the fights were in some ways fighting against your party, trying to frantically keep them going/buffing them so they kill the boss. Has also been described as playing whack-a-amole with health bars. But all of that was part of the appeal to some. I personally got burnt out on that style eventually and went shadow pew pew lasers when that became, actually like, good, but I can still appreciate how it worked. It did feel monotonous after a time or in easy content, but at the same time it could be exciting because of how intense it would sometimes be trying to keep up with everything that was going on. If you dps'd or sat on GCDs the to the degree you can here, people would just die.
 

ebil

Member
Real talk it kind of confused me at first why people would choose to be healers because the role in general always seems so... unsatisfying. Maybe that's just from what I know in XIV because healing most content as a dedicated healer and not dpsing is super boring because of infrequent damage, like you said. I'm just wondering how other games would break up the monotony of spamming the same healing spell over and over.
As someone who plays healer classes as often as DPS classes, I don't think it's unsatisfying. In WoW you're pretty much pushing healing buttons at all times. I recently levelled a Mistweaver Monk (the Monk healing spec) and there's a real (albeit simple) rotation going on with some sort of turret positioning like FF14's MCH and a secondary resource besides mana you keep building and spending, sort of like WAR's wrath in this. You also have to make sure to keep a bouncing HoT rolling on people from your group for your primary AoE healing mechanic while using your mana regen stacking buff when downtime happens. It's certainly busy.

Sure, in FF14 playing a healer and only ever healing is boring in most content but that's like playing a DRG and only doing your Full Thrust combo over and over. When you start DPSing and utilizing every global it gets a lot more fun than just sitting there doing nothing. Your 'rotation' also completely changes from one fight to another and that's something that appeals to me. Using most of your available buttons and optimizing your globals is where the satisfaction is.

I remember progression nights on T12 for a group I helped when I was asked to come on Ninja instead of Scholar and I was bored to death because I wasn't even supposed to hit anything besides Phoenix while everyone else kept wiping us while learning mechanics. That was boring compared to healing it.
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
The worst Primal EX fight is Leviathan EX and no-one can convince me otherwise, Mog is small time.


Also if you apply to the GAF FC under a different name than your guildworks app, especially if it's been a veeeery long time since you were last in the fc, please put that name in your app!
 
The worst Primal EX fight is Leviathan EX and no-one can convince me otherwise, Mog is small time.


Also if you apply to the GAF FC under a different name than your guildworks app, especially if it's been a veeeery long time since you were last in the fc, please put that name in your app!

Now I know how to troll you Scything.
 

aceface

Member
Let's re-institute help night to help me through Thordan tonight! I'm a lalafell so not that hard to carry and I remember most of the mechanics....
 

Valor

Member
Let's re-institute help night to help me through Thordan tonight! I'm a lalafell so not that hard to carry and I remember most of the mechanics....

Funny story, I was going to suggest this very thing tonight. Let's try and get some people through Thordan (if enough people are around rip)
 

Valor

Member
Pretty sure Midas Normal will require Gordias Normal and Midas Savage will require Midas Normal. I feel like I read that before, but it could have been a fever dream I had while blacking out after nights of being Manipulated.

So you have to do Bismark and Ravana EX to do Sephirot normal?

Lololol. Fuck you, Yoshi.

Further clearing up confusion:

Gods of Eld is a quest you do in order to unlock Bismarck and Ravana Ex, but Bismarck EX is The Diabolical Bismarck and Ravana EX is Thok Around the Clock. So basically you don't need to do Rav/Bis EX to unlock Normal Sephirot, you just need to complete the Gods of Eld quest, which talks about the Warring Triad. It kind of makes sense. You shouldn't necessarily need to do Ravana or Bismarck.
 

iammeiam

Member
So you have to do Bismark and Ravana EX to do Sephirot normal?

Lololol. Fuck you, Yoshi.

I don't think so? It just says you have to do Gods of Eld; that quest unlocks Bis and Ravana EX, but I don't remember it requiring completing them.

They said no, I think.

Your new avatar is bad.

They said: Clearing A4N required to unlock A5N. Clearing last floor of Midas Normal required to unlock Midas Savage. i still think echo, gear, and tank VIT changes are going to make 4S a total joke.

Also don't insult Phoenix.
 

Squishy3

Member
I think the big thing is this:

https://twitter.com/mattalos/status/695685261213040640

Community guy responding to someone who posted about One Winged Angel because he kept reading Sephirot as Sephiroth and said "Wait until you hear the new song!" and then says "Maybe I shouldn't say anymore" after having it pointed out that we heard it, so he must be talking about after the phase change.



And I agree, hobo dad Phoenix is best Phoenix.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Pretty sure Midas Normal will require Gordias Normal and Midas Savage will require Midas Normal. I feel like I read that before, but it could have been a fever dream I had while blacking out after nights of being Manipulated.



Further clearing up confusion:

Gods of Eld is a quest you do in order to unlock Bismarck and Ravana Ex, but Bismarck EX is The Diabolical Bismarck and Ravana EX is Thok Around the Clock. So basically you don't need to do Rav/Bis EX to unlock Normal Sephirot, you just need to complete the Gods of Eld quest, which talks about the Warring Triad. It kind of makes sense. You shouldn't necessarily need to do Ravana or Bismarck.

Okay. My bad. Thank ya.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
I think the big thing is this:

https://twitter.com/mattalos/status/695685261213040640

Community guy responding to someone who posted about One Winged Angel because he kept reading Sephirot as Sephiroth and said "Wait until you hear the new song!" and then says "Maybe I shouldn't say anymore" after having it pointed out that we heard it, so he must be talking about after the phase change.



And I agree, hobo dad Phoenix is best Phoenix.

Soken teased there's another song to that.
So either The Decisive Battle or Dancing Mad maybe?
Going from superboss theme to regular boss theme would be a bold move but The Decisive Battle would be a good song for a second phase.

Could be an original however.
 
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