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[scy]

With my limited exposure to other A4S strategies, I guess it never dawned on me that people did this another way. We have group stack in path and MT doesn't have to move at all.

In this instance, if MT is targeted, have them move so the orb goes into the stack rather than move the stack. Yeah I'm not sure what you gain from this either short of "ALWAYS STACK HERE" thing ... but then you can just mark the OT and accomplish the same thing?

Are they making it easier somehow? Trying to make us outdamage bard? Ahhhhhhh.

Machinist to do 10% Damage, 90% from Turret. Please be excited.

 

[BadRNG]

Could you elaborate on the a bit? I know it's been stated before, but I'm not sure I understand how that is actually true.

They (claim) they design content like this more or less:

1. Decide suggested/expected ilevel
2. Calculate potential "basic" dps from dps classes at that ilevel. It's been implied the basic part could be without potions/food/etc.
3. Calculate basic tank damage from what is needed to maintain threat/auto attacks at that ilevel.
4. Skim 10-15% off the top, so you can hit the mark with about 85-90% of dps.
5. boom you got your dps needed to clear, healer dps is ignored.

Any extra dps not calculated from that, like tanks actually dpsing or healers not afk, just helps you clear content in an earlier ilevel than intended.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

Not much about Astrologian that makes me worry, thankfully. That interview was a great read and I can't wait for the gears of change to go live. Going to be playing this and street fighter V on the side so things don't get repetitive. Minimum IL sync will guarantee primal drops now?

 

[iammeiam]

Machinist to do 10% Damage, 90% from Turret. Please be excited.

You joke, but making the turret scale well with skillspeed and make up a bigger chunk of base damage would accomplish what they want (boosting baseline DPS to clear up the perception problem regardless of how well/poorly the job is played), while simultaneously addressing the actual concern for gear scaling. But the interview sounds more like we'll get 1-2-3 potency boosts or something which won't actually fix anything because we need a fix for where we'll be at the end of the tier, not so much where we are right now.

MCH also isn't hard so idk what they're on about there.

How2MCH:

1.) Opener
2.) Stuff when it comes off CD


Granted you suffer disproportionately from screwing up burst, but the actual moment-to-moment isn't difficult to do passable damage on.

 

[Tomat]

They (claim) they design content like this more or less:

1. Decide suggested/expected ilevel
2. Calculate potential "basic" dps from dps classes at that ilevel. It's been implied the basic part could be without potions/food/etc.
3. Calculate basic tank damage from what is needed to maintain threat/auto attacks at that ilevel.
4. Skim 10-15% off the top, so you can hit the mark with about 85-90% of dps.
5. boom you got your dps needed to clear, healer dps is ignored.

Any extra dps not calculated from that, like tanks actually dpsing or healers not afk, just helps you clear content in an earlier ilevel than intended.

Still doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. It depends on what basic tank damage is I guess, but to be able to comfortably clear A4S with 'basic' tank DPS makes it sound like Yoshi either has unrealistic expectations or the intended iLvl is actually not obtainable in the game right now (which can't be true lol).

Also depends on the fight too I guess.

 

[BadRNG]

Still doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. It depends on what basic tank damage is I guess, but to be able to comfortably clear A4S with 'basic' tank DPS makes it sound like Yoshi either has unrealistic expectations or the intended iLvl is actually not obtainable in the game right now (which can't be true lol).

Also depends on the fight too I guess.

Basic tank damage was described just as fending gear, auto attacks, and threat combos I think? Which sounds ridiculously low balling to me but whatever. I think the 80-90% and no extra tank/heal method actually matches up with coil, and even as1/as2, it's just the 3/4 where I get skeptical. Especially 4.

But it's worth noting A3S and A4S were unique in that they were not tested properly, or at least not in the same manner that coil/as1/2 were, the development team did not actually ever clear the entire fight straight through. They broke it up into phases. Combine that with the statement of the dps check being too high, and I think they failed to properly calculate how much dps was realistically possible vs how much was needed. Then again there's the china super group who did it in 180, so maybe we're all just really really bad.

 

[Tomat]

Basic tank damage was described just as fending gear, auto attacks, and threat combos I think? Which sounds ridiculously low balling to me but whatever. I think the 80-90% and no extra tank/heal method actually matches up with coil, and even as1/as2, it's just the 3/4 where I get skeptical. Especially 4.

But it's worth noting A3S and A4S were unique in that they were not tested properly, or at least not in the same manner that coil/as1/2 were, the development team did not actually ever clear the entire fight straight through. They broke it up into phases. Combine that with the statement of the dps check being too high, and I think they failed to properly calculate how much dps was realistically possible vs how much was needed. Then again there's the china super group who did it in 180, so maybe we're all just really really bad.

That's the only thing I can think of that makes the most sense right now, which makes me think that Yoshi and co just had some wack expectations for 4S and possibly 3S (I've only been looking at 4S parses at the moment, no clue about 3S).

And sure, Chinese superhumans are better, but I would hope Yoshi doesn't expect that kind of performance from most players.

 

[scy]

That's the only thing I can think of that makes the most sense right now, which makes me think that Yoshi and co just had some wack expectations for 4S and possibly 3S (I've only been looking at 4S parses at the moment, no clue about 3S).

Most likely case instead of simply "oops, overtuned" is that their reset per phase bit didn't include cooldowns on buffs and so-on so each leg and the final phase was with full resources. So 5-6+ uses of most openers instead of like ... 3. Enough to skew all the expectations for damage, basically.

You joke, but making the turret scale well with skillspeed and make up a bigger chunk of base damage would accomplish what they want (boosting baseline DPS to clear up the perception problem regardless of how well/poorly the job is played)...

Depends on how big of a deal they want to make the resource regen damage "cost" parity I guess? Buffing turret like this does mean regen toggles cost more-and-more comparatively I think.

 

[Squishy3]

Basic tank damage was described just as fending gear, auto attacks, and threat combos I think? Which sounds ridiculously low balling to me but whatever. I think the 80-90% and no extra tank/heal method actually matches up with coil, and even as1/as2, it's just the 3/4 where I get skeptical. Especially 4.

But it's worth noting A3S and A4S were unique in that they were not tested properly, or at least not in the same manner that coil/as1/2 were, the development team did not actually ever clear the entire fight straight through. They broke it up into phases. Combine that with the statement of the dps check being too high, and I think they failed to properly calculate how much dps was realistically possible vs how much was needed. Then again there's the china super group who did it in 180, so maybe we're all just really really bad.

They did it in 190, not 180. Coupled with the fact they also had I think 2 more weeks of i190 gear obtaining than everyone else did it adds up. Plus they had all the resources to pull from that weren't there initially and I wanna say they had some veterans on the raid team too. (Or at least, people not new to the fight.)

 

[Hasemo]

Question about Ventures - does the equipment of my retainer significantly affect the results of a quick venture? The wiki I checked said the results would be better, but I'm wondering if it's really that big of a difference.

Also, I guess it doesn't matter if the retainer is a gatherer or a battle class in case of quick ventures, right?

 

[scy]

They did it in 190, not 180. Coupled with the fact they also had I think 2 more weeks of i190 gear obtaining than everyone else did it adds up. Plus they had all the resources to pull from that weren't there initially and I wanna say they had some veterans on the raid team too. (Or at least, people not new to the fight.)

The entire group was an existing previous group. So mostly a proof of concept i190 clear rather than "first time in there, i190 clear!" thing.

 

[BadRNG]

Question about Ventures - does the equipment of my retainer significantly affect the results of a quick venture? The wiki I checked said the results would be better, but I'm wondering if it's really that big of a difference.

Also, I guess it doesn't matter if the retainer is a gatherer or a battle class in case of quick ventures, right?

It's better, but how much better I doubt anyone could tell you. RNG gonna RNG. Every bit helps though, and it's not like it's hard to gear out the retainer.

It does not matter, no. Good idea to have one battle and then the other(s) gatherer.

They did it in 190, not 180. Coupled with the fact they also had I think 2 more weeks of i190 gear obtaining than everyone else did it adds up. Plus they had all the resources to pull from that weren't there initially and I wanna say they had some veterans on the raid team too. (Or at least, people not new to the fight.)

I think you missed the point of what I was saying, but ok, 190 then.

 

[scy]

I think you missed the point of what I was saying, but ok, 190 then.

clearly some had drops over the clears too so more like i192 obviously.

I do really, really hope they didn't make that same mistake with testing Midas. Like ... they couldn't, right? Right?

 

[Hasemo]

It's better, but how much better I doubt anyone could tell you. RNG gonna RNG. Every bit helps though, and it's not like it's hard to gear out the retainer.

It does not matter, no. Good idea to have one battle and then the other(s) gatherer.


I think you missed the point of what I was saying, but ok, 190 then.

Thank you. So far I've been sending my battle retainer only on quick ventures, but I guess it might be a better idea to gear it properly to hit 60 asap so it can use my good equipment for better quick venture results?

 

[Squishy3]

It's better, but how much better I doubt anyone could tell you. RNG gonna RNG. Every bit helps though, and it's not like it's hard to gear out the retainer.

It does not matter, no. Good idea to have one battle and then the other(s) gatherer.


I think you missed the point of what I was saying, but ok, 190 then.

They're still amazing but seriously everything about A4S is for lack of a better phrase: proper fucked when you consider how many groups it's killed/server transfers it's caused etc.

Plus just extreme lack of enthusiasm for it from so many people, although that's just more general apathy towards Savage Gordias than anything else.

 

[iammeiam]

I'm just going to point the original i190 naysayers were trying to argue it was mathematically impossible based on gear, not experience, without a nerfed encounter. I am annoyed that i190 A4S never took off as a challenge mode to see what other groups could pull it off, but I suppose nobody hated their healers that much.

And, no, A4S is an exceptional failure as a final fight. It's the only one I actively dislike but I dislike it so much it sours the entire tier for me.

clearly some had drops over the clears too so more like i192 obviously.

I do really, really hope they didn't make that same mistake with testing Midas. Like ... they couldn't, right? Right?

A5S rDPS requirement to be 7500, get rekt.

 

[scy]

They're still amazing but seriously everything about A4S is for lack of a better phrase: proper fucked when you consider how many groups it's killed/server transfers it's caused etc.

Really not sure how many groups actually died due to A4S (once sac was figured out, anyway) as opposed to realizations being made at A3S and how the tier will overall be different. A4S was largely less of an issue to most people who made it past A3S short of "christ this fight is stupid."

A5S rDPS requirement to be 7500, get rekt.

Fell Cleave though. Fell Cleave. Fell Cleave.

 

[BadRNG]

They're still amazing but seriously everything about A4S is for lack of a better phrase: proper fucked when you consider how many groups it's killed/server transfers it's caused etc.

Plus just extreme lack of enthusiasm for it from so many people, although that's just more general apathy towards Savage Gordias than anything else.

I...no, really, I don't think you understood what my original post was about.

 

[Kagari]

No more A4S forever~

I suspect they're not going to nerf it, much like they never nerfed T5, 9 or 13.

 

[Frumix]

A4S is a special case. After they admitted they fucked it up I'd be surprised if it's not getting destroyed.

 

[Plywood]

How2MCH:

1.) Opener
2.) Stuff when it comes off CD

Granted you suffer disproportionately from screwing up burst, but the actual moment-to-moment isn't difficult to do passable damage on.

 

[iammeiam]

A4S is a special case. After they admitted they fucked it up I'd be surprised if it's not getting destroyed.

Honestly Echo will be a giant nerfbat to 4 in a way it wasn't to prior floors (although IIRC Twin saw some nerfs in terms of snake and conflag HP I believe?) The entire fight is "do a fuckton of DPS" "heal through a shitload of damage." The tank VIT changes will trivialize a lot (Quarantine deaths should be a total non-issue, OT can pick up a ton of discoids and solo eat Carnages when anchor), echo will make most current failure states a non-issue and allow killing Strafs. The extra HP padding takes the edge off a lot of the nastier feed timing.

When I salt about the lack of A4S nerfs, I'm mostly annoyed they're not slapping echo on that crap yet because that's all it needs. They could I guess do something to pentacle? Maybe? But A4S is a fight without a lot of meat on its bones; take away the HP and DPS checks and not much left.

That said we are in uncharted waters as 4 isn't the gatekeeper to anything. That Midas doesn't require it means there's no reason not to nerf it into the ground, since it's not training for anything and it's not the capping fight of the major revision. I mostly just want to start trying to set up some mount stuff for people but I'm not touching that crap until I can laugh off most of the damage.

I've posted the opener before, but most of the job really is just doing something that resembles this and then mashing skills on CD.

 

[Frumix]

They basically need to get rid of some parts of the doll mechanic because that's the large coordination thing. Maybe not let Manipuchon gain damage up stacks? But that's in Normal mode as well. IDKKKKK
Maybe just admit Nisi a shit and add extra Nisi casts for every pentacle, I don't know.
Or really just add like 25% echo so you could feed at 4k and not give a damn

 

[MogCakes]

Has there been any word on SMN changes?

 

[Arkeband]

No more A4S forever~

I suspect they're not going to nerf it, much like they never nerfed T5, 9 or 13.

Ways it's going to be nerfed:

1) Echo
2) Players being overgeared
3) Actual nerfs

 

[Talaysen]

Well, Echo doesn't really trivialize the fight if you do it as designed, so I definitely think they should make Nisi / Royal Pentacle easier / less punishing.

Well unless they decide they don't need to nerf anything because it's not required. Then that's fine.

 

[Wilsongt]

Has there been any word on SMN changes?

All gear will have spell speed.

 

[Raijinken]

Ari, you're now free from Back on Your Feet, forever.

 

[Frumix]

Tank gear on the right looks nice. Kinda like a less bulky Gallant set. Finally a tank set I actually like without reservations.
The middle one is pretty neat too but looks a bit too on the low-level side.

 

[Shevat]

Tank gear on the right looks nice. Kinda like a less bulky Gallant set. Finally a tank set I actually like without reservations.
The middle one is pretty neat too but looks a bit too on the low-level side.

If "tank gear on the right" means the Elezen, that's actually the ninja gear.

Edit: My guess from left to right -- Caster/Healer, Bard, Tank, Monk(and/or)Dragoon, Ninja(and?)Monk. The far right is definitely Ninja gear because it showed up in the 3.2 trailer on an Au Ra who had the Ninja Eso weapon equiped.

 

[Frumix]

If "tank gear on the right" means the Elezen, that's actually the ninja gear.

For real? These all look fairly class-agnostic.
Well that's a mess, what the hell

 

[Munba]

Love the tank one, very medievalish.

 

[Valor]

Ari, you're now free from Back on Your Feet, forever.

Nope, we still need it on Sunday because Life Is Shit™

 

[KuroNeeko]

Just hit 30 on my Arcanist!

I think I'd like to play Scholar / Summoner until Heavensward, then try playing Astrologian and maybe Bard...or White Mage...lol

Those classes still fairly "wanted" in PUGS?

 

[BLCKATK]

So thirsty for these patch notes. Where are my PLD adjustments!

 

[Ataxia]

Tank gear on the right looks nice. Kinda like a less bulky Gallant set. Finally a tank set I actually like without reservations.
The middle one is pretty neat too but looks a bit too on the low-level side.

Sorry I'm not completely caught up. But I read that this game has a system that allows you to use the appearance of certain items over the top of your actual gear. Is that what this is? Or is this another set of armour that you buy with the poetic things?

 

[Frumix]

Wow, Hildibrand got two whole quests!
Some sort of quest with Jalzahn, the original relic guy... that's weird.
You can now get IV materia from daily beast tribe quests from 2.0... FUCK.
Those PLD changes, lmao
Paean is now not useless... okay.
HYPERCHARGE BUFF HOLY SHIT

[3.0] The casting animation for the Bard action Wanderer's Minuet has been adjusted. Upon execution, player characters will now appear to pull back on the bow instead of nocking an arrow.

Best change tho

Unlimited Mhachi Farthings!
New DF indicators are crazy cool.

 

[cultureculture]

Summoner	Ruin III	Potency has been increased from 120 to 200.

holy shiiiiiiiiiit

 

[Wilsongt]

Summoner	Ruin III	Potency has been increased from 120 to 200.

holy shiiiiiiiiiit

I was just about to post that.

YoshiP loves smns!

 

[Frumix]

/chuckle

[2.0] Ground targeted skills can now be placed under a selected target using text commands.

Game changer, right there.

 

[Wilsongt]

Wow. Sephirot ex weapons are only 220. Dead in 2 1/2 weeks.

 

[Frumix]

Wow. Sephirot ex weapons are only 220. Dead in 2 1/2 weeks.

Don't think so, Lore weapons require an UAT. We're back to this now.

 

[ebil]

lol they actually nerfed Nocturnal AB in PvP big time, RIP.

 

[BadRNG]

You jerks could of linked to the damn thing rather than quoting random bits of it.

PLD got huge dmg buff, but is that it for tanks? I thought they said something about showing strengths of the different tank stuff, all we got was extra enmity and less tp? Is oath/grit still on GCD? Not breaking combo isn't same as being oGCD.

edit - The UI bar has a picture of Grit with GCD timer, gg

edit 2 - Just noticed picture also Grit not costing any MP. Now that's a huge change if so.

edit 3 - someone on the OF pointed out that he is just already in Grit, therefore no MP value, boo. what a rollar coaster of emotions

 

[Wilsongt]

Answers music. We know what Kagari will be playing in her house...

 

[Frumix]

Some further observations...

The Esoterics gobdip has not been added anywhere else. For... some reason.
Turn 3 of Midas only drops Legs. Head has been moved to 2. Waist has been moved to 1.

Nevermind about the UAT

Players will also receive a Midan Gear once per week after completing Alexander - The Burden of the Son.
Midan gears can be exchanged for high-capacity tomestones by speaking with the NPC Sabina in Idyllshire (X:5.8 Y:5.2). High-capacity tomestones are used in the purchase of new weapons.

Why this is done I cannot fathom.

 

[RaeKasl]

Nope, we still need it on Sunday because Life Is Shit™

You asked for this. I tried to save us from it.

Also looking over preliminary patch notes pls play MCH in Midas. I will buy you more ice cream.

 

[SliceSabre]

Diurnal Sect Now reduces enmity generation.
Nocturnal Sect Now reduces enmity generation.

I don't quite understand the purpose of this. Not like it changes how we ASTs operate.

 

[Frumix]

I don't quite understand the purpose of this. Not like it changes how we ASTs operate.

I guess this makes up for the fact Luminiferous Aether doesn't have enmity drop like Shroud of Saints does. So they make up for stupid with more stupid.

Faust Striking Dummy Outdoor Furnishing

But----

 

[ebil]

Seems like they're going to have us grind Midas weekly for quite some time to improve its longevity. I think I don't mind now that the loot distribution isn't miserable. I was so burned out by constant farming for my group that I never set foot in Gordias Normal after they introduced Savage.

That's a nice bit of weekly content with Void Ark remaining relevant.