I honestly don't know if this is good or bad for those groups that are still having difficulty clearing this. 3.4 came early apparently.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
I honestly don't know if this is good or bad for those groups that are still having difficulty clearing this. 3.4 came early apparently.
How can I do that when I can't even carry myself with the people I get paired with in solo?!
Time to train!
EDIT: I remember having a harder time against your White Mage compared to Ayerro's Scholar in skirmishes back in the day. RIP Mona and Tea no longer being available to run skirmishes with us Ultros plebs to polish my PvP skills.
Altered Juice
Member
Another content getting nerfed huh? Ffxiv team Gotta justify that money spent on the raiding community since they saw what happened with living liquid.
Clear rate must have been nothing but a pile of dog shit!
Clear rate must have been nothing but a pile of dog shit!
Well, it was a needed nerf, apparently, due to the fact that A6S was apparently harder than A7S.
Woah, was not expecting all these to be rolled out at once. Maybe nerfs to Mirages at best.
Wow. This is unexpected and kind of amazing.
I was thinking they would put up the A6S nerfs last night. They've had what, two weeks now to see how many A6S clears there were with lore weapons/relics? Apparently the clear rate has been bad.
Also The animation lock following the healer limit break Healing Wind and the adrenaline rush ability Empyrean Rain has been reduced, megaton.
Also The animation lock following the healer limit break Healing Wind and the adrenaline rush ability Empyrean Rain has been reduced, megaton.
Wow at these nerfs. I genuinely wasn't expecting them.
The bolded makes me sad, that particular healing check was actually really fun and satisfying to pull off. At least I experienced it.
For a second fight in a tier it was definitely a little too much. 7 is a cake walk so far, in comparison.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Alas, never even got to touch AS6 before the nerf bat. Oh well, guess they can't afford to have another A3S situation so soon after A3S.
Maybe I just willingly deafened myself but I don't recall a public outcry about a6s outside of the start of the cycle when everyone was shitting their pants because elysium/etc had stalled on it. Some of the changes are just pathetic, like Gunners getting their hp nerfed? 16k damage is what I do to it myself as it is.
I think I feel Angary coming on in that you still need to do the mechanics and learn the fights even with these nerfs, so I don't know how much this is going to change the clear rate of the fight for those who had been struggling, but the healing has been considerably lessened as a result of every one of those changes.
I think I feel Angary coming on in that you still need to do the mechanics and learn the fights even with these nerfs, so I don't know how much this is going to change the clear rate of the fight for those who had been struggling, but the healing has been considerably lessened as a result of every one of those changes.
HylianScribe
Member
Glad I get to for the first time since T5 have to say a turn I cleared was "cleared post nerf" when looking for a decent group. Maybe I will be surprised and nobody will give a shit or believe I got fucked over and that's why I haven't cleared yet.
At same time hope this increases clear rate so raid scene doesn't continue to fall into oblivion (and be virtually non existent on Ultros).
Are you a WHM? Enjoy not finding a group for awhile. If not, you're in luck, almost every other role is in some demand you can probably find a new group within a week.
At same time hope this increases clear rate so raid scene doesn't continue to fall into oblivion (and be virtually non existent on Ultros).
Are you a WHM? Enjoy not finding a group for awhile. If not, you're in luck, almost every other role is in some demand you can probably find a new group within a week.
I am incredibly bummed with the precedent these nerfs set, to be honest--I feel like it not only screws over groups who were almost done doing the fight properly, it oversells what 6 was (it was not anywhere close the A3S at appropriate gearing, that's overselling 6 and underselling jiggly.)
The early progression on 6 was jacked up because 6 was originally just flat out broken--the player who passed Compressed Water would occasionally get it back on themselves, even if you did it properly, so people would get to Vortexer and if one of the six passes that had to happen RNG'd into the bug, water would explode and wipe them and force a restart. Until that was patched out, 6 progression was an RNG nightmare. Once that got fixed, it stopped being a frustrating roadblock.
And to be honest, I'm curious about the degree of the nerfs. Because a lot of them do seem to be making it so you don't have to do the mechanic properly.
?)
-There's now apparently only going to be one hidden mine per set (I think. This makes positioning for dashes easier, basically eliminates the need for healing the OT during mines, and decreases the need for players to be aware of where hidden mines are to not get blown the fuck up.
- Getting hit by Supercharge was already survivable at full HP; depending on how much they've nerfed the damage getting double-dashed may now be survivable, or eating a dash when not topped off after Mirage dropped. Mostly key because the one element of on-your-feet thinking during dashes was not eating a Mirage the OT baited in a weird direction due to being far afield doing mines; if that's not an issue anymore, they just gave everyone a pass out of the mechanic.
- If they nerfed Brawler orb damage to the point that you don't have to heal between, they'd have removed the actual mechanic of adds phase by making it so you don't have to slow/stun either orb.
- I don't understand how the Midan Gunner is even a problem with i230 weapons or what this is supposed to fix.
- Managing Crashing Thunder/Crashing Wave damage was like... the entirety of Vortexer challenge. If damage was reduced in any meaningful way they probably did essentially make it a lot easier to pass the mechanic with worse planning since you can shrug off a person missing from water or failing to back out from Thunder. I could maybe actually get behind solely a couple thousand damage Thunder nerf, since you can't split it like water, but the ability to 5 or 6 stack every water had already mostly trivialized that damage.
The nerf to Vortexer HP also means you can fail mechanics even more and still beat enrage. It was already possible to clear the fight even if everyone ate the damage down from an alpha exploding, or if multiple people died, or whatever. DPS check with i230 weapons was a non-issue.
I dunno, fight was mechanics heavy, not really that hard beyond asking you to actually do the mechanics, and not a DPS check. Gear progression in between made the fight we actually cleared a lot easier than the fight the day we walked into it, without any external nerfs. It really was what people claimed they wanted during the dark days of Gordias, but it turns out they wanted optional mechanics heavy fights. A6S was already way more forgiving of mistakes than, say, T7 of the vaunted days of Coil Was Perfect. I'd maybe go so far as to say that without Gordias in between having made it okay to say raid content was too hard, calling for nerfs on A6S wouldn't have even been a thing.
My big concern with the precedent, though, is the invisible timer it sets on every piece of content go-forward. This didn't really coincide with any expected change timeframe (I'd have cared a lot less if these hit in 3.3 or something; we're missing most of this raid week for real-life reasons and had that occurred a week earlier we'd have missed our chance to clear pre-nerf and I'd have been salty), and now establishes that if people complain long enough and loud enough fights will get their teeth pulled to soothe them and we won't know when they're coming.
The Last Wizard
Member
So what's the best way to go about getting the required items for the 3rd phase of the anima weapon quest line?
No one should give a shit. More people clearing is a GOOD thing.
A mix of everything, roulette, beast tribes, hunts, Alexander Gordias...
Tbh I've been doing A1 and A4 those past few days and was surprised about how clean and fast the runs are. Also, they count for the tank mount achievements so it's a win-win for me.
Poking around Reddit, somebody put things in numbers:
The one mine nerf on Blaster is pretty massive in terms of what it means.
You still have to kind of do Betas, I guess? Mitigation and shielding might remove the need to stagger the explosions, but at least they're not 10k.
Gunner nerf makes no sense given the HP we all have now. Second shot fired off wasn't RIP anymore anyway.
Water and Thunder got hit pretty heavily, like to the extent that I expect to see new strats develop around how much fewer people you need now.
The one mine nerf on Blaster is pretty massive in terms of what it means.
You still have to kind of do Betas, I guess? Mitigation and shielding might remove the need to stagger the explosions, but at least they're not 10k.
Gunner nerf makes no sense given the HP we all have now. Second shot fired off wasn't RIP anymore anyway.
Water and Thunder got hit pretty heavily, like to the extent that I expect to see new strats develop around how much fewer people you need now.
Or they could design content which doesn't need such drastic tuning in between progression patches. I mean, it is true that A6S is way more difficult than A7S, at least from what I've seen so far, so I can see why there was a need for nerfs. Still puzzled by the amount of changes though.
For groups who have already cleared the encounter, it just means less time wasted on cleared content and more time spent on progression after each reset, which I'm perfectly fine with.
Pretty much.
I feel like groups that needed these nerfs to clear are going to end up being right up there with groups that had A3S down mechanically but couldn't meet the DPS requirements in terms of groups people talk about in theory but don't really show up in practice. At the very least, there should have been a forum post stating that they'd be adjusting the difficulty in 3.26 so people knew it was coming and could choose to push or not as they felt was appropriate for their group. Not just "we're looking into it and may adjust the difficulty", an actual statement of intent. We're 8 weeks into the tier; that is a lot of time and effort people have expended learning a fight they now don't get the chance to clear. 7 being easier than 6 isn't a new thing--T8 was in a lot of ways easier than T7--or an inherently bad thing. If we had access to time travel, sure, they could retroactively swap 6 and 7 and maybe everything would be fine. But given that they've now apparently wildly missed their intentions two raid tiers in a row, I'm more concerned with how they're handling what they've actually done than what might have been.
Farming being easier is great, I guess? But I can't make peace with how they handled the nerfs; they should have either come very early on before there was a serious time investment, or been announced in advance. I stick with A6S having been a fairly fun fight as designed, tuned decently, and with the gearing level everyone's at now the raw challenge was already severely diminished, but if they had to nerfbat it they had to nerfbat it. I just think this is one of those things they should make very clear first, so people can either push hard to beat it for the sense of satisfaction, or just opt to go easy on the fight until nerfs so they're not bashing their heads. Teasing potential nerfs at some point and then slipping them in in a PVP patch is just poor form, given that they spent a giant chunk of Gordias teasing the idea of nerfs that never materialized.
Why do fights need to be perfectly scaled easy to hard based on the number they appear though? We haven't actually been inside 7 yet/won't be for a bit but even if its much easier than 6, why is that such a bad thing. If it wasn't for enrage cheese T4 would be easier than T2, T7 was harder than T8, etc. I don't get the obsession with perfect progression all of a sudden. It's not like this was a gear check encounter, the only time I could buy that argument.
I'm not upset they nerfed it, but am disappointed they caved so quickly/did it so fast. People were demanding nerfs before lore weapons were even a thing (and those greatly trivialized part of the fight anyway). It's like people claim they want challenging content but only if they can clear it within a week or two, any real roadblock and suddenly its overtuned and not worth the trouble. Like the people complaining about DPS check in AS3 before they even saw the actual dps check.
Just not a fan of the community giving up so quickly at first sign of struggle, and now SE actually catering to them. The current cycle already works pretty well from a balance standpoint to me, gear overtime acts as decent nerf and then in next major patch more hard-nerfs as final nail in the coffin.
That list of changes makes me really doubt they'll ever do content to actually get players to try and get better. No point in really asking the playerbase to improve and learn alongside the game, just nerf it down. This isn't saying "guys, make it harder not easier" but more just where's the content to get players to improve themselves? At this point it's starting to seem like if we only got Normal mode for the raid tier then people would be satisfied with raiding.
Swindler is now suddenly the hardest part mechanically of the entire fight which is a fairly depressing statement itself. If it means more people going through content it's okay, I suppose, but it's a really bad sign for the game for that kind of change to just roll out.
They already did that.
The irony of the situation is that's exactly what A7S is; raw short-term DPS checks and a lot of HP checks. So the more trouble people had with A6S / the later in the tier they got to the fight, the easier A7S would get. Plus a lot of the execution "carries over" so to speak.
Swindler is now suddenly the hardest part mechanically of the entire fight which is a fairly depressing statement itself. If it means more people going through content it's okay, I suppose, but it's a really bad sign for the game for that kind of change to just roll out.
They already did that.
The irony of the situation is that's exactly what A7S is; raw short-term DPS checks and a lot of HP checks. So the more trouble people had with A6S / the later in the tier they got to the fight, the easier A7S would get. Plus a lot of the execution "carries over" so to speak.
Stone Ocean
Member
Though I agree that people need to be better, the problem is that you can't expect everyone to want to sink that much practice, which is fine but when one piece of content is supposed to be for two types of player - midcore and hardcore - this is the result.
IMO raids really need something between NM and S, like an extreme version or something, a way to ease people into content that needs more practice and coordination.
IMO raids really need something between NM and S, like an extreme version or something, a way to ease people into content that needs more practice and coordination.
This just reminds me that I'm still trying to figure out what classification my group falls under because I have never considered myself a hardcore player, because I'm not a hardcore player.
I would like to propose a new rating system for level of play:
- Casual
- Casual Casual
- Midcore Casual
- Hardcore Casual
- Midcore
- Casual Midcore
- Midcore Midcore
- Hardcore Midcore
- Hardcore
- Casual Hardcore
- Midcore Hardcore
- Hardcore Hardcore
Or something more like Final Coil.
Stone Ocean
Member
ARR raid difficulty works for me too.
Specially the 24 man raids, Void Ark is straight up the worst piece of endgame content this game has to offer, fuck that piece of shit.
Midas was a concession in a ton of ways to what people asked for; I remain incredibly curious what general player reaction to 8S is going to be, especially now that 6 is a worse training ground than it was.
I'm also going to stick with my opinion that A6S was not substantially harder than something like T7. It didn't dump a disproportionate amount of responsibility on a single kiter, instead requiring responsibility from everyone, but even pre-nerf it was way more forgiving of individual mistakes and lacked the SCoB "bad phase push? git rekt!" philosophy.
I just went back and counted; you cleared A6S in like 9 lockouts over the course of 3 weeks
. Congratulations you are now more hardcore than the rest of us and get to carry us through everything going forward.
(I don't think we know what we are either, aside from bad but tenacious as all hell and slow to get the memos that things are too hard.)
I'm also going to stick with my opinion that A6S was not substantially harder than something like T7. It didn't dump a disproportionate amount of responsibility on a single kiter, instead requiring responsibility from everyone, but even pre-nerf it was way more forgiving of individual mistakes and lacked the SCoB "bad phase push? git rekt!" philosophy.
I just went back and counted; you cleared A6S in like 9 lockouts over the course of 3 weeks
with that awesome book meld job
(I don't think we know what we are either, aside from bad but tenacious as all hell and slow to get the memos that things are too hard.)
Void Ark is just really boring. I'm half tempted to forget it this week.
So what you're saying is that to be the most hardcore you have to join a static with previous fight experience?
I thought we agreed to never speak of that tainted book ever again.
PLD has been buffed significantly. It plays the same as before, but most major complaints have been adressed. It still doesn't have any good AOE damage but it's useful in every piece of content that has been released. Its single target DPS is very close to what DRK is capable of pulling off. It's in a good place.
WHM is as great as ever. MCH's buffs have made it really desirable. DRK hasn't changed much, it's pretty good. (Diurnal) AST's recent buffs made it very viable in Savage content and a good alternative to WHM imo. I think there's still some kind of stigma towards it but it's unjustified at this point.
On my server, jobs in demand are ranged DPS in general, and there seems to be an overabundance of healers, especially WHMs.
Exactly.
As if this wasn't the sentiment late in the cycle of every single one of the 24 man contents.
Does this mean people who buy clears are now godlike?
We've had it backwards this entire time...
Syrcus Tower was always fun!
Paladin is considered awesome this patch due to most bosses being Hard hitting physicals .
also Tanks Stats have been changed to curb the rising trend of Tanks reaching DPS like damage which wasa result of people piling on strength on tanks to meet the Gordias DPS check .
Now both Your HP and Strength as a tank is dictated by VIT stat . ( and you will want all the vit you can to survive 8K hits From Sephirot trial .
Enmity gains have also increased .
Stone Ocean
Member
Not really, I'm still have fond memories of the ARR raids - you never forget your first Bone Dragon wipe.
Void Ark on the other hand isn't even worthy of being called a raid, it's basically just a really long boring dungeon. It wasn't fun when it launched and it certainly isn't fun now that I need to do it for weekly Mat Vs.
Was A6S that much harder than T10? I really don't think it was.
The raiding community appears smaller and many that remain just seem to be less willing to put in time to learn/clear things, but I am not seeing much of a difficulty difference between Midas and Coil right now.
I despise ST, bleh. When I re-ran them the morning the new relic came out, ST was still the worst to go through.
A7S and A6S should have been swapped, really the only problem.
Just what i was looking for, thanks.
Would the complaints not be the same, save for the idea that it was too difficult for the second fight? Or would have the gear alone obtained by the time you get to the fight if it were swapped have been enough to get around the mechanics by then?
I'd take ST over LotA anyday of the week. At least I don't need to wait 5 minutes for the other alliances to kill their Atomos in ST.
Or DPS killing Platinals on top of other Platinals.
See this is where it gets interesting for me, because I think if they had swapped 6 and 7, 6 would really have been A3S reborn. As it stands you have Faceroll 5, Mechanics Heavy 6, DPS/HP Check 7, and then Mechanics/HP Check 8. While 7 seems mechanically easier from guides and videos, the damage going out seems pretty real at lower gearing and the tier's big DPS expectation jump comes at 7--which makes sense, since it comes after the tomestone floor.
Swap 6 and 7, and suddenly 7 can't be the jump in DPS expectations because no weapons yet (and less gear to go around probably means Sizzlespark/Sizzlebeam/thatDoT do less even with stacks)--if they tune it to expect weapons people end up just as walled as they were at 6--, which would have made 6 DPS and mechanics heavy, which I don't see ending well. Or would the player base have been more accepting this time, since Brute Justice is 100000000x more awesome than the Manipulator?
This might be a stupid question but I was curious if anyone else had this problem. I recently started playing this on the PS4 so I got myself a USB keyboard to make typing easier. Problem is, the PS4 doesnt recognize a lot of the keys im pressing such as "C, X, A" and so on. Is this a problem with the keyboard I just got or am i doing something wrong?
DPS/HP checks mean nothing, those can be tuned easily, it's just a number. The whole point is to have a steady curve up of difficult mechanics. Just mechanics-wise from what I am seeing (and it's all second hand for A7 and A8S, so sorry there) it's A5<A7<A6<A8 (before nerf at least) so the order of turns should have matched. It's ok for the community to hit a wall, the specific issue with A3S was that it was the hardest fight of the tier so those seeking challenge who stumbled at A3S didn't care to push through once they failed or their group fell apart or whatever because A4S wasn't more exciting and challenging. That's a lot of the issue, raiding is meant to appeal to the challenge seekers, once you wipe them from the equation, the whole thing falls apart.