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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch

iammeiam

Member
I would actually agree with that, except that people do play more then one class in this game. Thing is though, there aren't looting restrictions in Diadem, so you can conceivably free farm up gear for alts faster there then in Void Ark.

200 gear just doesn't really work as a reward, when 210 gear can be free-farmed.

They need to address the Void Ark loot pool and lockout, mostly. As it stands Void Ark is something you do once a week because you get a guaranteed upgrade item, but any more than that requires a battle against loot RNG and there's no reason to deal with Void Ark's mechanicsy wipe-prone insanity and lockout for RNG if you can just beat your face against a keyboard in Diadem for a while until loot falls out. RNG both ways, but you're less likely to leave Diadem empty-handed and if you can form an 8 man party you'll be fine in Diadem while I don't know that one good party can carry a fail VA alliance.

Like, I'm fine with 210s in Diadem, but you can't simultaneously have that and pretend i200 is special and needs to be protected.
 

Sorian

Banned
They need to address the Void Ark loot pool and lockout, mostly. As it stands Void Ark is something you do once a week because you get a guaranteed upgrade item, but any more than that requires a battle against loot RNG and there's no reason to deal with Void Ark's mechanicsy wipe-prone insanity and lockout for RNG if you can just beat your face against a keyboard in Diadem for a while until loot falls out. RNG both ways, but you're less likely to leave Diadem empty-handed and if you can form an 8 man party you'll be fine in Diadem while I don't know that one good party can carry a fail VA alliance.

Like, I'm fine with 210s in Diadem, but you can't simultaneously have that and pretend i200 is special and needs to be protected.

But void ark has a card and diadem doesn't D:
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Void Ark is basically glamour at this point or catch up gear for people new to the game or coming back after a break.
 

iammeiam

Member
It doesn't really work as catchup long term due to the lockout and Diadem's iLevel requirement only being 4 higher. Like, you get one Void Ark drop and then Diadem is faster because you're not shackled to one a week.

But void ark has a card and diadem doesn't D:

Oh man. You thought your WoD suffering was bad; better farm that card in the first couple weeks.
 

scy

Member
The annoying part is I wonder what 3.2 raiding will be like with Diadem i210 BiS quality stuff. May be a weird situation on that world first push when that happens.

Like, I'm fine with 210s in Diadem, but you can't simultaneously have that and pretend i200 is special and needs to be protected.

Yeah, at this point Void Ark / 24-man catch-up drops aren't relevant at all in the grand scheme of things.

Which makes this whole "I like the tank coat look" a thing I keep telling myself to stop thinking about lest I end up randomly DFing it a bunch.
 

WolvenOne

Member
Every Void Ark run I've done so far, had more then HALF the players getting the clear achievement. So I think it's clear that there are fewer people farming the 24 man raid gear than in previous iterations. People are mostly coming in for their weekly clear item and then scooting.

That'd be fine, mostly, except that if you do want that 200 gear for whatever reason, you're going to be dealing both with loot-table RNG, AND queue times. You could deal with this either by putting an upgrade item for 24 man gear, (Bit late for that at this point, and I'm not entirely certain where you'd put it,) or by vastly increasing the number of drops per chest.
 

WolvenOne

Member
The annoying part is I wonder what 3.2 raiding will be like with Diadem i210 BiS quality stuff. May be a weird situation on that world first push when that happens.



Yeah, at this point Void Ark / 24-man catch-up drops aren't relevant at all in the grand scheme of things.

Which makes this whole "I like the tank coat look" a thing I keep telling myself to stop thinking about lest I end up randomly DFing it a bunch.

Chances are overwhelmingly high that 210 will only be useful for doing 2nd Alexander Normal Mode. Based on statements from the developers, it looks to me like it'll go, (2nd Alex Normal = 220 gear, Eso Base = 230 gear, New ilvl cap = 240.)

Since secondaries mean very little in comparison to main stats, chances are that everybody will be using Prototype 2nd Alexander Gear for that initial raiding push, not Mistbreak Gear.

PS: Sorry for the double post.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Chances are overwhelmingly high that 210 will only be useful for doing 2nd Alexander Normal Mode. Based on statements from the developers, it looks to me like it'll go, (2nd Alex Normal = 220 gear, Eso Base = 230 gear, New ilvl cap = 240.)

Since secondaries mean very little in comparison to main stats, chances are that everybody will be using Prototype 2nd Alexander Gear for that initial raiding push, not Mistbreak Gear.

PS: Sorry for the double post.

2 weeks is not enough to obtain the full set. Raiders will definitely want at least the body and the legs from Diadem.
 

iammeiam

Member
The annoying part is I wonder what 3.2 raiding will be like with Diadem i210 BiS quality stuff. May be a weird situation on that world first push when that happens.

It's a bit soon to worry about that, IMO. We don't know what their plans for iLevel progression next tier are. If they do Alex normal/Savage again and stagger the releases again, we're looking at at least another i210 set hitting with normal (they can't have Void Ark go freeroll and then have Alex 2.0 dropping i200), and maybe they go i215 just because. The broken stat budget on pinks definitely gives them an advantage, but without knowing what the next tier looks like (and what their plans for crafted are, as I believe that's also supposed to be relevant again. And the melding changes) it's hard to say how big of an impact the broken stat budgets will actually have.
 

aceface

Member
It's a bit soon to worry about that, IMO. We don't know what their plans for iLevel progression next tier are. If they do Alex normal/Savage again and stagger the releases again, we're looking at at least another i210 set hitting with normal (they can't have Void Ark go freeroll and then have Alex 2.0 dropping i200), and maybe they go i215 just because. The broken stat budget on pinks definitely gives them an advantage, but without knowing what the next tier looks like (and what their plans for crafted are, as I believe that's also supposed to be relevant again. And the melding changes) it's hard to say how big of an impact the broken stat budgets will actually have.

I could have sworn I read in one of the pre-patch interviews that Yoshi said that they won't be doing normal/savage the same way again. But now I can't find that and am wondering if I am crazy. Anyone else remember reading that?
 

scy

Member
Since secondaries mean very little in comparison to main stats, chances are that everybody will be using Prototype 2nd Alexander Gear for that initial raiding push, not Mistbreak Gear.

For what it's worth, some of them have enough extra secondaries to offset the i210 -> i220 main stat bump. While it has been said the gap between content should be higher, we'll have to see how it pans out. I think it'll just be a really interesting week 1 or 2 for the Elysium, Lucrezia, etc. push to World First.

It's a bit soon to worry about that, IMO. We don't know what their plans for iLevel progression next tier are. If they do Alex normal/Savage again and stagger the releases again, we're looking at at least another i210 set hitting with normal (they can't have Void Ark go freeroll and then have Alex 2.0 dropping i200), and maybe they go i215 just because. The broken stat budget on pinks definitely gives them an advantage, but without knowing what the next tier looks like (and what their plans for crafted are, as I believe that's also supposed to be relevant again. And the melding changes) it's hard to say how big of an impact the broken stat budgets will actually have.

If they do the same ilvl jump from last batch of dungeons to current ones, we'll see i210 dungeons next go around? So I'd assume i220 from Alex 2nd seems like a pretty good guess thus far. Which limits the use of BiS infinity hours Diadem stuff to a very short 3.2 relevancy but I do wonder if it'll matter for the world first push. Will be an interesting spin to the salt over which side clears first anyway!

I don't think any of that changes my take on Diadem so far but I do wonder at how it'll shape up.
 

WolvenOne

Member
I could have sworn I read in one of the pre-patch interviews that Yoshi said that they won't be doing normal/savage the same way again. But now I can't find that and am wondering if I am crazy. Anyone else remember reading that?

I read that as, next tier would likely be more akin to, "Normal" "Extreme/FCoB." Though the final decision is likely going to be dependent on what the clear numbers eventually are when all is said and done.
 

iammeiam

Member
I could have sworn I read in one of the pre-patch interviews that Yoshi said that they won't be doing normal/savage the same way again. But now I can't find that and am wondering if I am crazy. Anyone else remember reading that?

He's said they need to change something about the raids, but it's more about the A3S complaints than anything. He's said they can't add a third tier, and they'll be changing something, but two versions seems guaranteed:

So you'll be implementing a medium difficulty in the future?

Yoshida: It's a tricky problem. We don't have the staff to make so many different levels of raid. We've been discussing whether it would be good to drop the difficulty of the savage version instead of making a medium difficulty. We also talked about perhaps having a six area structure instead of four, where the first two areas are relatively easy, the third and fourth are tougher, and the fifth and sixth are really difficult. However, with the current development period and the number of people on the raid development staff, I'm not sure if we can make that a reality.

Since the next Alexander will be added in 3.2, I also want to hear from players about it. We'll look at the feedback and of course we'll also look at the clear rate. There are many voices on the other side saying that they are happy with the difficulty and asking to leave it as is. It took a while for the world's first to clear this time, and there was a lot of excitement around when it happened. Once we determine the policy, we'll let you know, but I don't think it will remain the same as it is now.

So it will continue in a different direction from now.

Yoshida: That's right. If our resource allocation remains as it is now, we may do something like instead of lowering the difficulty of savage in general, make it so that just the fourth section is extremely tough and make it somewhat easier to get through the third part. That's not to say we've made any final decisions yet, but it's something that we thought would be good.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
They could put a little more work in to 24-man armors if they're only intended to be glamour at this point.

I get the impression that SE doesn't really know what to do with gear in terms of how they're balancing things.
can we setup a Kickstarter or something so they can hire a few more people
Would actually kick in.

Actually on second thought, you would think the money they make from the cash shop could be used for that...
 

iammeiam

Member
If they do the same ilvl jump from last batch of dungeons to current ones, we'll see i210 dungeons next go around? So I'd assume i220 from Alex 2nd seems like a pretty good guess thus far. Which limits the use of BiS infinity hours Diadem stuff to a very short 3.2 relevancy but I do wonder if it'll matter for the world first push. Will be an interesting spin to the salt over which side clears first anyway!

I still think they have options to render Diadem gear nonadvenageous if they want. Meldable i215 crafted (super expensive mats that won't stop world firsters, etc), simply letting you get full i220 from normal before Savage hits, etc. I mean, they'll probably do nothing because lolSE, but there's options.

can we setup a Kickstarter or something so they can hire a few more people

I have four retainers, I feel like I'm already throwing money at them for no reason.
 

WolvenOne

Member
I'd personally go back to the five floor raid structure in the original BCoB, except I'd have five actual bosses instead of four bosses and a trash mob floor. Any additional floors would allow for a slightly more natural progression curve. Plus, even if the last or next to last bosses end up being a roadblock for certain players, this would still give players more to do before they reached that point. Thus they'd be somewhat less likely to get frustrated as quickly.

Though I might note that, A3S being the most difficult mechanically probably compounded this issue greatly.

Would actually kick in.

Actually on second thought, you would think the money they make from the cash shop could be used for that...

Originally the cash shop money was to be used for making a European data center. I really don't know what that money is going towards now that said data center is a reality.
 

ebil

Member
I could have sworn I read in one of the pre-patch interviews that Yoshi said that they won't be doing normal/savage the same way again. But now I can't find that and am wondering if I am crazy. Anyone else remember reading that?
No you're right. Given the reception of Alexander (both modes), I personally think they'll do story mode with no gear drops (since that was their original intent with Alex normal) and a hard mode similar to Coil in difficulty. I don't think we're getting another Savage, or at least it won't be comparable to current Savage.
 

scy

Member
I still think they have options to render Diadem gear nonadvenageous if they want. Meldable i215 crafted (super expensive mats that won't stop world firsters, etc), simply letting you get full i220 from normal before Savage hits, etc. I mean, they'll probably do nothing because lolSE, but there's options.

I do wonder if they'll try that next tier then: i210 generic crafted, i215 Specialist crafted with materia slots. The i185 addition here matching the dungeon set is nice in theory if this wasn't a catch-up patch.

A lot of options for them to possibly avoid, it'll be great.

I have four retainers, I feel like I'm already throwing money at them for no reason.

and they throw strikes at random
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
No you're right. Given the reception of Alexander (both modes), I personally think they'll do story mode with no gear drops (since that was their first intention with Alex normal) and a hard mode similar to Coil in difficulty.
Cannot see this happening for Alexander, not after they had gear for the first normal tier. People would set the official forums on fire if they did that.
 

aceface

Member
He's said they need to change something about the raids, but it's more about the A3S complaints than anything. He's said they can't add a third tier, and they'll be changing something, but two versions seems guaranteed:

Oh yeah, that's right. It's a shame, I really preferred the way they did it with Coil. I mean everyone eventually can get in there with echo. It's funny I'm reading all this raider salt over i210 gear from diadem but for me I care more about working for the lore and cut scenes. The Alex story was wholly unmemorable to me mainly because I blitzed through it.
 

WolvenOne

Member
So, apparently Haymaker is a DPS increase in Knights of the Round Extreme, since you can use it every time you dodge Dragons Gaze.

....I wonder if the same holds true for Pacification.
 
After seeing the ending for 3.1
I'm really curious what kind of role Urianger is going to play. He now comes off to me as a double agent of sorts but yet hasn't hindered the player in a way, he's playing it real cool right now.

We also got a glimpse of Yda and Palapymo with some refugees of some sort, 3.2 foreshadowing?

What would be really fascinating that if the whole time the Warriors of Darkness are actually the good guys who found out they were getting played by Hydaelin and are embittered. I mean they were the guys fighting the war in the intro and whisked away into the current era, so what made them "turn"? Or perhaps they didn't turn, but learned some truth and see us as the players as the real enemy but we don't know it.

Unless they're setting up some form of Ark Angels type of battle and they are the bad guys.
Sorry, yes it's all speculation.
 

WolvenOne

Member
You guy are killing my plan for using Void Ark to get a higher ilvl since I'm 195 right now.

Hey, it kills me too. While poor players occasionally throw cold water onto my enjoyment, historically I've enjoyed the 24 man raids. The fact that people are ignoring them save for the weekly is truly driving me batty.

Doubly so, since I actually NEED something out of there.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Hey, if you go to the Warring Triad they've changed textures on them. They're now overgrown with moss and stuff.
 

WolvenOne

Member
True. What I meant was, you don't give the majority something they want and then take it away.

I would actually agree with that to a large degree. Normal mode probably isn't going anywhere.

Thing is, I'm okay with there being a normal mode, but it feels to me like Void Ark should have been in 3.0, and Alexander Normal should have been in 3.1, or something.

I dunno, I will admit that blasting through the story too quickly does take away from things, but I still want non-raiders to be able to experience said story.
 

Valor

Member
Every Void Ark run I've done so far, had more then HALF the players getting the clear achievement. So I think it's clear that there are fewer people farming the 24 man raid gear than in previous iterations. People are mostly coming in for their weekly clear item and then scooting.
It's week one. Day three. Relax.

So, apparently Haymaker is a DPS increase in Knights of the Round Extreme, since you can use it every time you dodge Dragons Gaze.
Isn't literally any other GCD better than using Haymaker.
 

jorgeton

Member
After seeing the ending for 3.1
I'm really curious what kind of role Urianger is going to play. He now comes off to me as a double agent of sorts but yet hasn't hindered the player in a way, he's playing it real cool right now.

We also got a glimpse of Yda and Palapymo with some refugees of some sort, 3.2 foreshadowing?

What would be really fascinating that if the whole time the Warriors of Darkness are actually the good guys who found out they were getting played by Hydaelin and are embittered. I mean they were the guys fighting the war in the intro and whisked away into the current era, so what made them "turn"? Or perhaps they didn't turn, but learned some truth and see us as the players as the real enemy but we don't know it.

Unless they're setting up some form of Ark Angels type of battle and they are the bad guys.
Sorry, yes it's all speculation.

I believe Yda and Paps were about to strike an Imperial base of some kind. I read a rumor floating around that the next expansion might be Ala Migho, so I wonder if this ties to that somehow.
 

Sorian

Banned
Is it really rumor status that 4.0 would be Ala Mhigo?

I mean, there is literally no other story significant place that they could go.

inb4 someone says the moon

How do I get the new dances? I'm seeing people with them already. o:

Gold Saucer, 80k mgp each.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
I would actually agree with that to a large degree. Normal mode probably isn't going anywhere.

Thing is, I'm okay with there being a normal mode, but it feels to me like Void Ark should have been in 3.0, and Alexander Normal should have been in 3.1, or something.

I dunno, I will admit that blasting through the story too quickly does take away from things, but I still want non-raiders to be able to experience said story.
Agreed on the story part. I have no issue where there being Alex normal, so as long as gear is handled appropriately.

The story stuff does feel way less important this time around. Dumb goblin stuff aside, 697 get to see it all so quickly. It isn't a huge deal I guess, it's just that unlocking the story in FCoB felt like a big deal. Getting those cutscenes was awesome.
Is it really rumor status that 4.0 would be Ala Mhigo?
Ala Mhigo is supposed to be desert and stuff right?
 

WolvenOne

Member
It's week one. Day three. Relax.

Isn't literally any other GCD better than using Haymaker.

Well, you can read it for yourself and make your own conclusions. I don't actually know anything about Bard DPS.

Agreed on the story part. I have no issue where there being Alex normal, so as long as gear is handled appropriately.

The story stuff does feel way less important this time around. Dumb goblin stuff aside, 697 get to see it all so quickly. It isn't a huge deal I guess, it's just that unlocking the story in FCoB felt like a big deal. Getting those cutscenes was awesome.

Ala Mhigo is supposed to be desert and stuff right?

High arid mountains, from what I gather. So think, much of Wyoming, Utah, Neveda, etc.

img_2759.jpg

Like this.

Anyhow I think there's a lot of room for the story to improve, especially considering that the Goblin's WEREN'T the one's that originally summoned Alexander some years back.
 

Allard

Member
Agreed on the story part. I have no issue where there being Alex normal, so as long as gear is handled appropriately.

The story stuff does feel way less important this time around. Dumb goblin stuff aside, 697 get to see it all so quickly. It isn't a huge deal I guess, it's just that unlocking the story in FCoB felt like a big deal. Getting those cutscenes was awesome.

Ala Mhigo is supposed to be desert and stuff right?

Ala Mihgo is highlands territory, you can actually see a concept art for it on the games main information page. Where Ishgard has a more Medieval european motif, Ala Mihgo seems more Viking/nordic warrior country. Before getting occupied by the Empire it was easily the most militant of the 6 city states. There are stories of the grand companies coming together to force Ala Mihgo out of the Black Shroud in an invasion attempt for instance. If they do Ala Mihgo expect mountainous regions and arboreal forest to take center stage. There is also the Abalathian spine region. We only get into that region via the sea of clouds but there is actual land down below we still haven't seen. Not to mention Eastern and Northern Highlands of Coerthas are still missing which would be most obvious returning 1.0 choices for the next expansion.

We also don't know yet if Yoshida still wants to make a 'swimming' based expansion as the next one. When he first discussed ideas for the first expansion he said he was trading on and off between flight or swim based. If it is swim based expect maybe more content on the sea as well. But I suspect he will wait now to do such an expansion until the theme for the expansion makes sense. For instance they referenced a new frontier to the west and Sharlayan homeland is also that direction. There is also a ton of small islands in the Southeast that never got used.

Edit: This is Ala Mhigo. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/a_realm_reborn/world/#!/locations/content?alamhigo
 

WolvenOne

Member
Ala Mhigo is based more on old inland China, from what I gather. I mean between the arid mountains, the architecture, and Monks being the signature combat class of the region.

Warriors hail from somewhere else if I recall. The description in game makes it sound like the originally hail from an island off the coast of the Alabathia's Spine region. IE: it sounds like their home territory is reminiscent of Iceland.
 

Squishy3

Member
After seeing the ending for 3.1
I'm really curious what kind of role Urianger is going to play. He now comes off to me as a double agent of sorts but yet hasn't hindered the player in a way, he's playing it real cool right now.

We also got a glimpse of Yda and Palapymo with some refugees of some sort, 3.2 foreshadowing?

What would be really fascinating that if the whole time the Warriors of Darkness are actually the good guys who found out they were getting played by Hydaelin and are embittered. I mean they were the guys fighting the war in the intro and whisked away into the current era, so what made them "turn"? Or perhaps they didn't turn, but learned some truth and see us as the players as the real enemy but we don't know it.

Unless they're setting up some form of Ark Angels type of battle and they are the bad guys.
Sorry, yes it's all speculation.
The CG stuff has absolutely nothing to do with the overarching plot, as I understand it. It's the Derplander in the HW CG too, and he changes jobs to Dragoon in that trailer. In the Dragonsong trailer, he arrives in Ishgard as a Warrior and in the next scene he's a Dragoon. Same in the 3.1 trailer, the player character is the Derplander as a Dragoon. What happens in the CGs should have absolutely no bearing on the WoD plot as a whole... because he's a Warrior and not a Dragoon.
 

Jayhawk

Member
What's Void Ark? Was that the thing I did one time while waiting for airship cooldown timer and other people to be available?

I believe the airship I sent out on 62 hour trip when servers were back up will have unlocked Diadem hard mode when I get home tonight. Have your boarding passes ready.
 

Zomba13

Member
After seeing the ending for 3.1
I'm really curious what kind of role Urianger is going to play. He now comes off to me as a double agent of sorts but yet hasn't hindered the player in a way, he's playing it real cool right now.

We also got a glimpse of Yda and Palapymo with some refugees of some sort, 3.2 foreshadowing?

What would be really fascinating that if the whole time the Warriors of Darkness are actually the good guys who found out they were getting played by Hydaelin and are embittered. I mean they were the guys fighting the war in the intro and whisked away into the current era, so what made them "turn"? Or perhaps they didn't turn, but learned some truth and see us as the players as the real enemy but we don't know it.

Unless they're setting up some form of Ark Angels type of battle and they are the bad guys.
Sorry, yes it's all speculation.

Urianger, to me, seems like he's kinda playing both sides. I don't think he's bad but he's just hearing the Ascians out because he's a scholarly sort who wants to know the truth rather than just bashing heads against them because they appear bad. Like in the library he seemed disappointed when the book or whatever they wanted him to see was an old myth or something. He wants to know more about the Ascians so he's going along with what they say right now because they aren't hurting and are actually giving him information willingly. Though I think Alisaie walking in and seeing the meeting will cause troubles and we'll get the whole misunderstanding trope where we suspect Urianger of being a bad guy but then it's cleared up that he's working with them in order to get information to take them down.

I suspect that next patch will deal with Yda and Papalymo and the Ala Mihgan resistance and also set up some stuff for the next expansion

I full expect an Ark Angels 2.0 style fight against the WoD party. I'm super interested in them because I'm still unsure whether they are actually like us, they did all this stuff before (fought ascian's etc) like shown in trailers and are like parallel versions of us or whether the characters used in promotional material are separate from these characters and the WoD are just based on their design as some kind of meta twist.

I'm looking forward to more story stuff, I just wish it came a bit more often and was a bit meatier. We got a cool mission and saw some cool stuff this patch but I want more.
 

WolvenOne

Member
Question, if they were going to put in upgrade items for 24 Man gear, so you could take it to 210, where do you think would be the best place to put it?
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Question, if they were going to put in upgrade items for 24 Man gear, so you could take it to 210, where do you think would be the best place to put it?

Hopefully up Yoshida's butt. They need to reassess their gear plans big time instead of doing patchwork.
 

iammeiam

Member
The Diadem, where people would actually be doing the content to receive them.

Making it so you can do wipe-prone content to hopefully RNG into one piece of loot a week that could potentially be upgraded to be i210 isn't going to fix the problem. Diadem is practically impossible to beat right now when it comes to return on investment/risk vs reward for i210 gear if you go premade, so people motivated by gear will continue to focus on it. It's completely uncapped access to i210, and if you get crap secondaries you can still take it because it doesn't lock you out of a better piece if it drops next.
 
can we setup a Kickstarter or something so they can hire a few more people

Just play Final Fantasy Record Keeper and buy things with real money

Is it really rumor status that 4.0 would be Ala Mhigo?

I mean, there is literally no other story significant place that they could go.

inb4 someone says the moon

I've been wanting to go to Garlemald since like forever. You got to infiltrate Arcadia in FFXII so why not here?!

If they pull a Bioware and let me join the Empire's side and get a whole different story progression, I promise I would stay subbed forever. FOREVER.
 
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