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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch

K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
SliceSabre said:
I watched Kagari do Thordan Ex last night and her group failed each time while I was watching.


You were supposed to be my FFXIV hero Kagari. :(
Click to expand...

It wasn't my group :< It was a learning group... which I thought was originally a farm, but was uh... well, you saw.
 
S

studyguy

Member
RIP JURRASIC SLICE

Diadem potato gear is the best gear. I have star spangled undies at 210 that have only two stats iirc, it couldn't be any less useless but I still kept it.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Tiops said:
What is the exact issue with A4S? I had the opportunity to watch some groups wiping a lot in A3S on Twitch, but never found a group trying A4S.
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There are too many frigging legs, so it takes an actual seven minutes before you actually get to fight the boss. Most of what you're doing is sort of lame. If you kill a leg at the wrong time you can basically doom your group to wipe. Failing a specific mechanic doesn't auto-wipe you but probably should given the damage up stack on the boss means you're going down sooner or later. Nisi as designed is a terrible mechanic, so everyone cheeses it, but it means the back half of the fight amounts to doing some mechanics and then suiciding repeatedly for almost half the group. It's just not fun to do, and the fight is terrible about making progress feel like progress.

And every time you wipe, it's seven minutes of slog to get back to the boss.

A3S looked REALLY unforgiving, but a fun fight. Just with a crapload of mechanics that could wipe the team pretty fast.
Click to expand...

It's more forgiving now, but yeah. A3S when everything clicks is one of the better fights for feeling like you've got something down and your group is working as a group.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Again, good riddance. I'd rather take a little longer to get gear then just sit at the exact same spot and mash buttons for ninety minutes. First few runs where my party was moving around from monster to monster was considerably more enjoyable.

And yes I know, "But, loot pinata!"

9_9

Diadem gear with good stats is the best gear in the game. Lots of farming is the price to get it. You want a different set of 210 gear besides Eso, it exists, but you have to put work into getting that too.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
WolvenOne said:
Again, good riddance. I'd rather take a little longer to get gear then just sit at the exact same spot and mash buttons for ninety minutes. First few runs where my party was moving around from monster to monster was considerably more enjoyable.

And yes I know, "But, loot pinata!"

9_9

Diadem gear with good stats is the best gear in the game. Lots of farming is the price to get it. You want a different set of 210 gear besides Eso, it exists, but you have to put work into getting that too.
Click to expand...

You don't have to do it, you know. We're at the end of the cycle. Better gear will be out in 3 months anyway.
 
J

Jayhawk

Member
WolvenOne said:
Again, good riddance.
Click to expand...

Good riddance to what exactly? All the patch did was make some islands unfeasible to farm and make other dino islands more appealing based on people that have gone on a few runs post-patch. They just made it worse for unorganized groups. Hawk Airlines will continue to fly smoothly.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
WolvenOne said:
Again, good riddance. I'd rather take a little longer to get gear then just sit at the exact same spot and mash buttons for ninety minutes. First few runs where my party was moving around from monster to monster was considerably more enjoyable.
Click to expand...

The problem with Diadem has never been Diadem itself, it's been that they failed to adapt the rest of the game to allow for what it would mean. It's not ~for~ me, so I don't do it and I don't care, but it is annoying that gearing up an alt without Diadem is going to take significantly longer calendar-wise because Eso and Void Ark drops are still on weekly reset (and i210 with bad secondaries is still better than i190 with good secondaries.)

Making the loot piñata less rewarding for people whacking it makes things worse for them and doesn't help people not doing Diadem at all so it's sort of a questionable change.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Kagari said:
You don't have to do it, you know. We're at the end of the cycle. Better gear will be out in 3 months anyway.
Click to expand...

I'm not complaining about having to do Diadem, or Alexander. I'm just annoyed because I've been hearing people complain about just sitting in one spot and whacking monsters in Diadem for a week now, now that they've tried taking steps to fixing that, I'm seeing a whole lot of other people complaining about how it's going to take them so much longer to get loot now.

Really, there wasn't anyway to make it so people were going to have to move around, without also reducing the rate of Gold drops. It was always going to be one or the other.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Really all I'd like to see is a removal of first hit claims on Dia. The fact that they're worried someone will call them out for this is absurd. Hitting a mob once and doing nothing is awful to see.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
studyguy said:
Really all I'd like to see is a removal of first hit claims on Dia. The fact that they're worried someone will call them out for this is absurd. Hitting a mob once and doing nothing is awful to see.
Click to expand...

That's a little strange, yea. First hit should give a bonus somehow that makes it easier to get full credit, but not so much of a bonus that it'd guarantee full credit.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Jayhawk said:
Good riddance to what exactly? All the patch did was make some islands unfeasible to farm and make other dino islands more appealing based on people that have gone on a few runs post-patch. They just made it worse for unorganized groups. Hawk Airlines will continue to fly smoothly.
Click to expand...

Are we doing holiday weekend flights? Nuadha can go be a stick in the mud somewhere else, the rest of us can cause dino extinction.
 
P

PowerTaxi

Banned
Jayhawk said:
Good riddance to what exactly? All the patch did was make some islands unfeasible to farm and make other dino islands more appealing based on people that have gone on a few runs post-patch. They just made it worse for unorganized groups. Hawk Airlines will continue to fly smoothly.
Click to expand...

How much are exit row seats?

Not even on the same server. I just wanted to say that >____>
 
J

Jayhawk

Member
WolvenOne said:
I find your lack of context, disturbing.
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If you tried reading your posts in the multiple iterations of this game's OT or recorded what you say on Mumble, you'd realize that you spend a lot of time complaining about everything. No, all your complaining does not annoy anybody at all.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
WolvenOne said:
I'm not complaining about having to do Diadem, or Alexander. I'm just annoyed because I've been hearing people complain about just sitting in one spot and whacking monsters in Diadem for a week now, now that they've tried taking steps to fixing that, I'm seeing a whole lot of other people complaining about how it's going to take them so much longer to get loot now.

Really, there wasn't anyway to make it so people were going to have to move around, without also reducing the rate of Gold drops. It was always going to be one or the other.
Click to expand...

Eh, just ignore the people complaining. It's clear SE likes putting in this type of content and the people complaining will do it anyway so they win either way.
 
J

Jayhawk

Member
scy said:
Honestly wouldn't be surprised to see it done with DRKs too. Still beat the second Sacred Cross too, the dream.
Click to expand...

Smart usage of Hallowed Grounds and a Divine Veil rotation should make it feasible for PLDs too, even if they have to deal with the second Sacred Cross.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Jayhawk said:
If you tried reading your posts in the multiple iterations of this game's OT or recorded what you say on Mumble, you'd realize that you spend a lot of time complaining about everything. No, all your complaining does not annoy anybody at all.
Click to expand...

I spend a lot of time agonizing over how many statics have been broken up by Alexander Savage. Take that out and no, I don't actually complain all that much.
 
S

scy

Member
studyguy said:
DRKs getting demolished by heels is pretty fun to watch, yes.
Click to expand...

It doesn't hit that hard until near the end of the fight though. I dunno, doesn't seem like "surviving the fight" is really a problem here for any of the tanks.

Jayhawk said:
Smart usage of Hallowed Grounds and a Divine Veil rotation should make it feasible for PLDs too, even if they have to deal with the second Sacred Cross.
Click to expand...

If they get second Sacred Cross, not sure if they can do enough to beat it even with DV running. Not 100% certain here on that though, never really got to see the exact boss HP% -> Damage% it does. It's the all tank one I'd feel least confident of working though but probably still doable in the end.
 
S

studyguy

Member
scy said:
It doesn't hit that hard until near the end of the fight though. I dunno, doesn't seem like "surviving the fight" is really a problem here for any of the tanks.
Click to expand...

PF would have you believe tanks are made of paper and DPS hit with the strength of a wet noodle. Anyway, finding 8 geared pld to try this might be fun.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Kagari said:
PF is just filled with healers that aren't paying attention then. :<
Click to expand...

I got into a Thordan the other day where most of the group kept dying to that stack and soak move (dragon's rage?), the very first one, right after the lightning bolts. 3 times in a row and I was watching the second and third time, NO ONE took additional damage, no stacked lightning, no hits from the aoe circles. And yes, everyone was together to soak damage (except MT but the move is completely survivable with 7). Shitty healing on the next level right there.
 
T

Tiops

Member
Kagari said:
The entire fight design/mechanics/everything is just not fun.
Click to expand...

iammeiam said:
There are too many frigging legs, so it takes an actual seven minutes before you actually get to fight the boss. Most of what you're doing is sort of lame. If you kill a leg at the wrong time you can basically doom your group to wipe. Failing a specific mechanic doesn't auto-wipe you but probably should given the damage up stack on the boss means you're going down sooner or later. Nisi as designed is a terrible mechanic, so everyone cheeses it, but it means the back half of the fight amounts to doing some mechanics and then suiciding repeatedly for almost half the group. It's just not fun to do, and the fight is terrible about making progress feel like progress.
Click to expand...

I see. That's a shame then, I didn't find any of the raid bosses I've tried boring (didn't do any Alexander Savage yet, but cleared all the Coils).

Hope they fix all that in Alexander 2. I can understand some rough design in this raid tier, as it was the first one with Easy and Hard mode being made at the same time.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Sorian said:
I got into a Thordan the other day where most of the group kept dying to that stack and soak move (dragon's rage?), the very first one, right after the lightning bolts. 3 times in a row and I was watching the second and third time, NO ONE took additional damage, no stacked lightning, no hits from the aoe circles. And yes, everyone was together to soak damage (except MT but the move is completely survivable with 7). Shitty healing on the next level right there.
Click to expand...

I experienced that last night. I was wondering why some people had said they never saw past the first lightning mechanic...
 
V

Valor

Member
iammeiam said:
Making the loot piñata less rewarding for people whacking it makes things worse for them and doesn't help people not doing Diadem at all so it's sort of a questionable change.
Click to expand...
PRETTY MUCH THIS. Who does this help? What fun does this change generate? If you answered "none" and "no one" then you're the big winrar.

Kagari said:
PF is just filled with healers that aren't paying attention then. :<
Click to expand...
It's almost like are healers who are baddies who are used to coasting through easy2heal content until you get to fights where they actually have to do things. I would never say that, though, since it's disrespectful to healers.

I know everything is easy2heal, since I'm positive someone already has that post halfway written out as soon as I mentioned this.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Valor said:
baddies who are used to coasting through easy2heal content
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This is like my entire plan though, don't say it like it's a bad thing. coasting and card games.

somebody carry my alt through Thordan this weekend. View it as solo healing practice.
 
S

Sifl

Member
studyguy said:
PF would have you believe tanks are made of paper and DPS hit with the strength of a wet noodle. Anyway, finding 8 geared pld to try this might be fun.
Click to expand...
This. Other then doing it with new randoms/people in my fc trying it for the first time, I often see the same exact tanks dying at the same exact spots. It's always Heel or the first LB.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Thordan Ex would very easily above Coil difficulty, if the DPS/Enrage check were even slightly less forgiving. So, yeah I'm not surprised a lot of people are struggling with it, a lot of folks never stepped foot into Coil, and were never challenged like that. <_<;;

Edit: To be clear, mechanically it's more difficult then T13 I think, there are more mechanics and they come more quickly. T13 hit a bit harder (at the time,) and the DPS/Enrage was very much real. So it was a lot less forgiving of mistakes. Net result is that you can make more mistakes in Thordan and still get your first clear, making it easier to learn overall.
 
T

Tabris

Member
docbon said:
start that indiegogofundmestarter

re: those planned diadem changes lmao. bring back tanaka.
jk
Click to expand...

A Tanaka designed diadem would have a 3-day lockout. You would have to go with your FC only. You would need to farm for pop items to pop the NMs and there would be tiers of NMs that unlocked other NMs. The NMs would be harder. You would keep the pop items you earn in each run so every 1-2 weeks you would pop the best NMs. The drop rate on the gear would be 5%~.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Sifl said:
This. Other then doing it with new randoms/people in my fc trying it for the first time, I often see the same exact tanks dying at the same exact spots. It's always Heel or the first LB.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't understand how anyone can die to the first heel. I've seen it A LOT and the first LB A LOT. Like the fuck.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
ahhhhhhhh my god, hunting hawk is so cool. I need it:

6vDevBe.jpg
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
If you started this game when Heavensward released, there's a high likelihood that you,'ve, "never," had to deal with tank busters before. Especially since you don't have to clear Ravana before doing Thordan.

I mean, that's one explanation.
 
M

MechaX

Member
Cool, I managed to get the Void Ark Casting Robe for glamor purposes.

... Well shit, now what do I do next in this
ded
game?
 
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