I personally don't see the point of having a day dedicated to just triceps.
Fitness |OT6| Defying gravity, Quest madness, and Muscle Shaming
- Thread starter SquiddyCracker
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I personally don't see the point of having a day dedicated to just triceps.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Been working out seriously for a year now. My strength has shot up considerably since starting out and I'm comfortable with all the lifts and my form.
Think I may be close to exhausting my noob gains so feel ready for more than SS.
If you're close to exhausting your noob gains, I'd say move on to a program like 5/3/1. To me, things like your squat rep scheme and tricep day don't make much sense, but I've been known to be wrong before...
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
385lb bench from last night. Tried 400 after this and failed at chest. I'm now up to 315 on dead bench. This should help since I fail at my chest.
http://youtu.be/ocQtPYF01OQ
You think you are? Or you are?
If it's working. Why change it?
http://youtu.be/ocQtPYF01OQ
You think you are? Or you are?
If it's working. Why change it?
I'd say just do a 5x5 program for size and strength or change your program up so that you have a 5 day split because I personally don't see the point of having a day solely dedicated to triceps
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
hmmm I target such high set and rep count with squats to push my legs as much as possible. I've seen a lot of growth in my upper legs so it seems to work well from a hypertrophy perspective.
looking at over the last 3 months? maybe, in comparison to the results I saw over summer. It's worked well for me so far so felt like sharing it and get a little bit of input on the side.
having the 48 hour rest between my full body day (sun) and my next workout on wednesday seems to help me recover really well to push myself the following week.
reason for having a dedicated tricep day is because my chest/bicep day tires me out to the point I can't achieve my rep targets on my dedicated tricep exercises. size is an important goal and visible triceps look nice!
I don't work them with shoulders as I work my legs with shoulders and I don't work my legs on sat to leave some extra recovery time between squats and deads due to the crossover.
Also not on sunday since the heavy focus on compounds is taxing on my whole body so can't find the room to squeeze in isolation.
Thus that leaves saturday.
I transitioned from SL, to SS, to 5/3/1. I took SS to a very far point, i was making gains for a long time, but 5/3/1 is a great transition for me personally, when i realized i do not want to look like a power lifter, want to maintain and slowly build more muscle, and not spend as much time at the gym. I had to realize lifting as heavy as possible isn't what i was actually after. YMMV.
Isn't 5/3/1 more for people that want a power lifting look?
idk man, I'm doing 5/3/1 and I definitely don't look like a power lifter.
You're also lifting as heavy as possible with the 1rm at the last set, something the poster said he doesn't want to do. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just confused with the goals set and the program used that seems to be used more often by people who want exactly what he's trying to stay away from.
Poor biceps. :-( Your tris get their own special day to shine and your bis only get one exercise after chest.
Honestly man, I would probably do some things differently but if you are eating right and really pushing yourself every training session then this will give you results. Keep up the good work!
Not really. You go up 5lbs a month per lift on the upper body, 10lbs for lower body when doing 5/3/1. On SS, you are going up at a MUCH faster pace, lifting heavier and heavier. 5/3/1 is very gradual, and i feel like its a slow but steady way to make gains. IMO of course, i want to keep things slower and cut fat while gaining muscle, this is my preferred method.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
5/3/1 isn't about a "look." And the routine itself can be altered to fit damn near any lifestyle/goal. believe it or not, not everyone here is a "body builder" hell some of us aren't concerned with appearances much at all.
SS goes up that fast because a novice CAN progress that fast.
5/3/1 progresses mor slowly because it's geared more for those who are no longer novices.
That's not to say it won't work for novices. It most definitely will, but why slow progress if you don't have to?
I prefer the slower progress because its not as taxing on my body, and still making gains. Its a marathon, not a sprint, i'm committed to lifting life long, so need to rush. Just my preference to why i like 5/3/1. I would not recommend it to a beginner however, definitely start with SS and get your noob gains for a nice base to build upon.
BlueScrote
Member
Looking back at my time on SS, I think squatting every workout was sometimes more mentally taxing than it was physically exhausting.
I know time spent in the gym isn't indicative of progress, but I wouldn't be able to get my self to go to a gym just to pop out 15 minutes worth of tricep exercises and then leave.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
haha, well they get a nice workout on sunday too don't they?
deads, pull ups and BB row.
Not trying to rub it in your face when I tell you the gym is literally a 10 second walk across the street from where I live!
Really? I totally never knew that...
This thread might as well be called strength or powerlifting gaf
Yeah they do but so do your tris on chest day.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
There's a difference between trying to force progress and planning smartly to capitalize on the quick progression one can get while on a program like SS while being a novice.
"Not as taxing on your body" is not the answer. Progress comes from forcing adaptation. The body needs to be taxed/challenged to adapt. This adaptation is increased muscle mass/ capacity and strength.
If you moved on to 5/3/1 because it was easier you may have cut yourself short. Also if 5/3/1 is easier I question how effective you're actually implementing the program.
Really? I totally never knew that...
Well you clearly didn't know the first part of the quoted text. So I'm not gonna assume you know anything else.
You act as if strength/powerlifting isn't fitness. You seem confused all around
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I know it's not indicative of a good workout, but don't really get any sort of noticeable pump with them on chest day, and also it's a nice way to fit in 2 workouts for both my bi's and tri's a week in to the routine.
....vanity muscles, but I love making them show!
I did SS till i had to deload several times on the compounds. I likely could have went a few more weeks of progression on certain lifts, but the 5/3/1 kicks my ass plenty and i am making gains at the gym every single time i step in the place. I did SS for ~8-9 months, then switched to 5/3/1. As i said, i would not recommend 5/3/1 for any novice, but its a excellent transition point once you have a solid base under you. Everyone is different tho, there is no one size fits all. Its just what i preferred.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
That makes more sense. Although less than a year for a program seems kind of short especially for a novice but you know your body better than I do.
Something to consider is that if you're stalling in a program it may not be he program that's run it's course it may be you not focusing enough on recovery. (Food/sleep/etc)
Absolutely, during my switch from SS to 5/3/1, i had switched to SKD (Standard Keto Diet) which effected my lifts during the transition phase, and i always get 8 hours of sleep. If i had stuck with SS more, i likely could have taken my DL and bench a bit further, but i feel plenty strong and continue to get stronger, so i am quite happy. I took where i was when i stopped doing SS and now 4 months strait on 5/3/1 with nonstop gains on every lift.
Bro u seem so hurt by what he said. Let's chill for a minute. He said 5/3/1 is more for people that want the power lifting "look" which I don't think is wrong as powerlifters gravitate towards that type of program. You obviously felt some type of way about it and said not everyone is concerned with a look. Nowhere did he criticize the actual 5/3/1 program. As to what he said about it being a powerlifting gaf.. For the most part if anyone has a question pertaining to lifting weights, I've noticed that most here will prescribe some type of powerlifting program SS, 5/3/1 or something of the sort. Not saying its wrong, but this thread would be better if there were different prescriptions instead of mainly just powerlifting/strength prescriptions. Again not everyone is concerned with powerlifting or strength
. It would also justify the namesake of the thread.Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Shit sometimes I get 10 hours of sleep haha. Sounds like you got a handle in it though man. Keep truckin!
Bro u seem so hurt by what he said. Let's chill for a minute. He said 5/3/1 is more for people that want the power lifting "look" which I don't think is wrong as powerlifters gravitate towards that type of program. You obviously felt some type of way about it and said not everyone is concerned with a look. Nowhere did he criticize the actual 5/3/1 program. As to what he said about it being a powerlifting gaf.. For the most part if anyone has a question pertaining to lifting weights, I've noticed that most here will prescribe some type of powerlifting program SS, 5/3/1 or something of the sort. Not saying its wrong, but this thread would be better if there were different prescriptions instead of mainly just powerlifting/strength prescriptions. Again not everyone is concerned with powerlifting or strength
Bro, you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.
SS isn't a powerlifting program. Neither is 5/3/1 unless you turn it into one they are strength based programs. Not to mention how far off base the rest of your post is. If you don't understand why a program like SS is recommended to beginner I recommend you read the op and some lifting literature, bro.
Nope, you generally like looking way too deep into things that should generally be pretty clear if you can take in context, which judging by our previous arguments, you can't. Is 5/3/1 not generally used by people wanting to build strength or not? Is that not what powerlifters generally try to do or not? Do powerlifters tend to gravitate towards something like 5/3/1 or not? I'm simply saying who tends to gravitate more towards that workout. I'm not saying that 'only' powerlifters use it and if anyone else does its bad. Sorry if the statement threw you off so much you couldn't comprehend anything else.
Once again no. All I'm saying is that I tend to see strngth and powerlifting advice overused in this thread. There are many different ways to maintain fitness and not every single way is a strength based program which I see many try to spread as gospel to anyone coming in here for advice. The only thing I ever see recommended to someone looking for program ideas and/or advice is a strength based program like SS or 5/3/1. I generally see splits shot down like theyre something no one in their right minds would do and instead advised with a strength program. Its pretty much been like this since the very first fitness OT and it seems like much hasn't changed since. I'm not saying strength programs are bad, but it is bad when one philosophy of lifting is generally treated as superior to all else
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Really? I totally never knew that...
This thread might as well be called strength or powerlifting gaf
Bro u seem so hurt by what he said. Let's chill for a minute. He said 5/3/1 is more for people that want the power lifting "look" which I don't think is wrong as powerlifters gravitate towards that type of program. You obviously felt some type of way about it and said not everyone is concerned with a look. Nowhere did he criticize the actual 5/3/1 program. As to what he said about it being a powerlifting gaf.. For the most part if anyone has a question pertaining to lifting weights, I've noticed that most here will prescribe some type of powerlifting program SS, 5/3/1 or something of the sort. Not saying its wrong, but this thread would be better if there were different prescriptions instead of mainly just powerlifting/strength prescriptions. Again not everyone is concerned with powerlifting or strength
Fitness is the ability to perform a specified task, not to look like you could perform it. Also, for the average joe, training to 'look' like a powerlifter as opposed to a bodybuilder isn't going to make a huge difference visually (assuming they actually establish a base for bb'ing instead of just grabbing something from a magazine that's all isolation and machines, in which case they'll look worse), but it makes a large difference in terms of strength and overall health.
This thread definitely has a resistance training focus, but that doesn't equal powerlifting. I don't think more than a handful of posters in this thread have ever competed in a meet, let alone structure their training almost entirely around developing for competing in the sport. Some people learn the weightlifting lifts, that doesn't make them Olympic lifters. The reason routines like Starting Strength and 5/3/1 get recommended to people asking about resistance training isn't to turn them into powerlifters, it's because they're what work for strength and fitness.
EDIT: Wait, you want people to recommend resistance training routines that aren't effective for improving strength? What on earth is the point of that? Look, if people say they want to focus on size or something like that the people in this thread who have experience with that sort of thing are generally on hand to help them out. However, if they're a beginner coming in saying they want to get "big but not too big" and have a routine they cobbled together from some magazine's new split of the month, they'll be told to do something like SS because it will actually work, whereas the split will not.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Like the above post I made, I recommend you do some reading. Most of the regulars here read a lot of stuff outside this thread and the stuff that's recommended is done so for a reason. There's a reason splits are shot down and have been since the first OT and it's not simply because they are splits.
Onemic, it's about smart programming and a lot of splits that get posted just aren't smart.
Why wouldn't people recommend what works?
I spun my wheels for five years doing splits. Five fucking years. So much time wasted where I could have been training efficiently.
After five years of splits I couldn't even bench 135 :/.
Why wouldn't people recommend what works?
I spun my wheels for five years doing splits. Five fucking years. So much time wasted where I could have been training efficiently.
After five years of splits I couldn't even bench 135 :/.
Wait....If you're not concerned about strength then why even start lifting weights? Please enlighten me?
People who say "I don't want to get tooooo big!"
aesthetics, i guess
Wait, are you saying that a BB only looks like they can do a lift while a PL can? Really? Please explain
So why exactly are you so against splits or anything other than building strength? Why is training for strength the only way? There are many different philosophies to working out and training for strength is only one of them. This thread however, acts like training for strength is the only one, hence why I said and still maintain that calling it Fitness gaf is misleading and calling it strength/powerlifting gaf would be more ideal if all you're gonna do is only spout the mantra of strength training while shooting down everything else. Its like me starting a fit gaf and only giving advice on calisthenics or your dreaded splits and saying any other way is wrong. Or only talking about running and endurance. I'm sure you guys would then say that the title of the thread isn't correct. Much like this one
What type of split were you doing? Were you taking it straight out of a mag of mens health? I highly doubt the philosophy of splits were the problem. I was able to do 135 in about 2 months or less doing a split.
....For size? For health? Strength is not the one size fits all everyone here seems to think it means. In fact I don't think its much of a stretch to say that most people that go to a gym do so for aesthetic purposes first and foremost, with everything else being second.
Great, but as your muscles grow they in turn get stronger. So if you want bigger looking muscles for purely aesthetics why not use your time efficiently and train to get strong? Correct me if I'm factually wrong here but is it even possible to enlarge your muscles without gaining strength?
EDIT:
Refer to above. I think you are confused. Many don't share the passion for strength gains like most in this thread do but all people at the gym looking for bigger muscles are attempting to gain strength if they know it or not.
Dat Juicy Synthol can help you out right there.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
1. You clearly don't understand jack that's done in this thread. Strength is the foundation of even a body builders method. However while a bodybuilder focuses on muscles power lifters and strength athletes train movements.
No one is against splits and you show your ignorance by assuming as much. The idea is to get someone a base using a simple beginner linear progression system from which they can grow instead of throwing them into a ill formed split with no hope of actually making decent progression let alone getting their body prepared for future work.
2. Comparing what you did to what he did is also ignorant different people progress at different rates. The point is poorly planned splits are not the answer especially for a novice.
3. For resistance training strength is the basis of what you do. No one said its a one size fits all situation. Those that are focusing purely on aesthetics are selling themselves short if they don't have a solid foundation and if they aren't focusing on increasing their strength levels. Shit, think of it as an MMO when you're level 1 everyone is the same. Kill bats and rats to level up. That's SS or similar programs. As you level up you change and thus so does what you do. But you had to build that base of killing bats and rats with a wooden sword like everyone else did at the beginning.
It's obvious you don't get it and it really appears you don't want to get it.
As I said before many of us go out of our way to consume lifting/fitness/nutrition literature. Even though I'm a fatass "power lifter" that doesn't mean I don't know about nutrition. Everything to do with making the body stronger/better through weight training I consume it. Yet you come in here and act like everyone is wrong but you while only knowing what your curlbro friends tell you.
This shit is frustrating. This is exactly why people like Wendler tell people to stay off of fitness forums because you end up wasting 10 minutes typing a response that will ultimately mean jack shit, serve no purpose and only leave you frustrated. I'll go back to helping those who want to be helped. Good day sir.
Yup. And I switched it up because of "muscle confusion". Chest day, back day, arm day, shoulder day, leg day, abs day. Ugh. I shiver thinking of it.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
I'll refer you to my opening sentence: fitness is the ability to perform a specified task. If you are using resistance training to increase your fitness, then your goal is to increase strength and associated qualities such as connective and supportive tissue density, efficient motor patterns, rate of force production etc... Any visual changes are secondary. Saying that focussing on discussing and recommending training protocols designed to drive these adaptations is missing out on other aspects of 'fitness' is simply not true. What aspects of fitness, that are effectively trained by resistance training (so not things like low intensity endurance) are neglected by training programs such as SS, 5/3/1, TM etc...?
You keep mentioning training "philosophies" other than strength? What are they? Size/looks? That's not fitness. Despite that, it is often discussed in here. You mentioned calisthenics. That is not different to training for strength, it is using different methods to train for strength. It's not recommended as much as standard barbell training due to its limitations, but its still discussed often enough and many posters in this thread incorporate it into their routines. There used to be a segment on it in the OP, not sure if there still is. Once again, splits aren't recommended not because of their "philosophy" but because for most people who are doing them they aren't effective. It's much easier to put on size if you are strong.
On the bodybuilder vs powerlifter thing, it's common knowledge that powerlifters are much stronger than most bodybuilders, to the extent that lighter weight strength athletes can often outlift 250lb+ bodybuilders. Bodybuilders train (and "supplement") for size, not strength. That's fine, that's their thing. But an average or skinny guy looking to put on some mass isn't going to be able to make much headway following a "bodybuilding" routine without adequate strength in the first place. Thus some degree of strength training is a prerequisite. The question then becomes, as Cooter said, why should the average person forgo training their fitness in exchange for size/aesthetics, when the visual result won't be much different?
tsurugi no mai
Member
GAF, I need major help.
I'm a skinny fella. I want to gain size, definition and moderate vascularity. The OP is very insightful, but it is also overwhelming. I want to talk to real people about my personal issues.
I weigh around 135 right now and I'm 5'8".
I know nothing about weightlifting (the only terms I know are reps and sets). There is so much different information out there that I don't know what do. I'm absolutely dumbfounded when it comes to getting started with this, so I figured I would post about it.
I'm the type of guy who needs exact plans. I need to know exactly what to eat, how much to eat, etc. The only rule I have about diet is no meat besides chicken and fish.
I have a weight bench and a few dumb bells at home, and I have access to the YMCA (but am afraid to go due to complete lack of knowledge and physical weakness).
Please help me to create a diet plan and work out plan to achieve the results I want.
Here are pictures of me:
Here are pictures of what I want to look like:
As you can see, I want a much larger, more solid physique.
Also, would it be possible for me to get close to that state by August if I started now?
Anyone?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
To be completely honest you can probably eat whatever you want for the time being. Looking at your body you just need to eat and eat a lot but monitor your body comp to make sure you don't get too doughy.
You should not be worrying about fat % in your milk or portion size.
Make sure while your pounding away big macs and cases of beefaroni you're training hard and resting just as hard.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I'm a beginner, but I'm just going to say that there's probably a good reason for this.
People looking for advice, which for the most part means beginners, typically do not know shit about lifting, getting in shape, building muscle, nutrition, and how the body works. That's why people recommend simple programs that focus on getting good at the primary compound lifts. Once a person does a beginner program long enough and reads enough on their own, they'll start to figure out what works best for them and their own personal goals. From there, they probably won't be asking questions like "how does this split body routine with a million exercises that my bro from college put together for me look?" The questions will be much more pointed.
Because, ultimately, we are animals and we need some amount of muscle for everything we do. Having more muscle can make you healthier and able to perform actions more easily. Therefore it makes sense to at least begin with a program that will allow you put on muscle effectively and safely. From there, you can branch off to meet your individual goals, but for a whole lot of people who never worked out and never did much manual labor, they really have no muscle to speak of--most likely to the point where their health is suffering as a result.
Remember, bro: you gotta do high reps at low weight to get that toning action. Don't wanna get too big.
I started going to the gym with my cousin who did splits. So most of my first year of training was splits. I wouldn't say its a total waste of time, but the difference from a compound routine and splits is enormous results wise. Everything is better with compounds. It's why ss is such a good starter routine. Great base to improve on.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
The thing is, you can and should use compounds in your splits.
Splits and compound movements are not mutually exclusive.
Of course strength comes whether you train specifically for strength or have more of a BB routine. Training to look good (bodybuilding) has different parameters than strength. Namely time under tension and higher reps.
THIS!
Seriously the best split is this imo.
5/3/1
Chest 5/3/1 bench movement
All your other chest shit
Some tricep shit
Back 5/3/1 deadlift
All your other back shit, shrugs, whatevs
Biceps shit
Shoulders 5/3/1 overhead press
All your other shoulder shit
whatever else you need to focus on
Legs 5/3/1 Squat
All yo leg shit
or if you want have a 5th day for arms..I'm dong that now.
5/3/1 basically is already set up like a split. Just add your other movements after the compound movement. Been doing this for over a year.
That's how my friend is. Work out 6-7 days a week and he says he supersets everything. He gets to the point his hands and everything are shaking. And of course he only squats 135 lbs for working sets because he doesn't want to get any bigger.
Pretty much doing this now.
Sticking to linear progression on my Squats and Deadlifts due to all the progress I lost cause of my injury earlier this year. Gonna have to move to 5/3/1 on my bench and OHP soon.
FallingEdge
Member
6 days a week, push/pull/legs
fatceps are almost 18 inches cold flex
bodyfat calculator (40 waist, 17 inch neck) claims that I am 22.55% @ 270 but I don't believe that to be true.
fatceps are almost 18 inches cold flex
bodyfat calculator (40 waist, 17 inch neck) claims that I am 22.55% @ 270 but I don't believe that to be true.
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