FallingEdge
Member
What is funny is that it is the same guy. I have no idea if she knows that or not.
Of course.
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Fitness |OT6| Defying gravity, Quest madness, and Muscle Shaming
- Thread starter SquiddyCracker
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What is funny is that it is the same guy. I have no idea if she knows that or not.
Of course.
He's the guy who purposely gained weight and then lost it all to get a better sense of what his clients go through right?
So in the first week of a bulking diet, it is natural if you've put a fair bit of weight? (4/5kg extra, scared me a bit)
My friend so far is basically the perfect trainee. He doesn't question anything I tell him, and I also gave him my old copy of SS 2nd Edition and he's been reading diligently. He texts me with questions all the time.
He barely managed 5x3 with 50lb on OHP and 70lb 5x3 on bench, so he has a long road ahead of him. But if he stays motivated, eats (which shouldn't be hard for him) and follows the program he'll have dramatic results I feel.
FallingEdge
Member
I'm not sure but if it is him, it would make sense.
Depending on what your diet was before, yeah. I mean a good amount is prolly water weight. Not to mention when you weighed yourself. After using the bathroom, in the morning, after working out, etc. I've had my weight shift anywhere from 5-10 lbs overnight by just what I was eating.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Goddammit.
Zoe
Member
Yea, I think that was the case with me. I started at around 70 too and the first kilos came really quickly. Then at some point it came to an halt an halt and I actually had to start eating even more.
People could probably give you better advice if you gave more detailed information.
Anyway, I personally was fully prepared for a dirty bulk. Obviously I have more fat on me now than I did before but from what I can judge it has stayed on those levels while my muscles have continued to grow.
BronzeWolf
Banned
I'm not losing weight, the derivative of the my weight(time) curve is near zero even with day to day ketosis. I ran the keto calculator with my new body comp data (16%@194lb) and my daily diet goals changed by quite a lot!
My current maintenance intake is 2500cal! that's what I am eating right now, no wonder I am not losing weight! Ugh, this whole cutting thing is new to me.
So, plugging the new data:
Calories p/day: 2000 cal
Carbs 31g 127 cal (6% of cals)
Fat 131g 1214 cal (61% of cals)
Protein 162g 664 cal (33% of cals)
It also explains why I've been having a hard time eating 2500 calories...
Shit don't have to be so expensive.
Do-Wins $119
http://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-weightlifting-shoes.php
inzer Belt $89
My buddy is like a carbon copy of yours
My current maintenance intake is 2500cal! that's what I am eating right now, no wonder I am not losing weight! Ugh, this whole cutting thing is new to me.
So, plugging the new data:
Calories p/day: 2000 cal
Carbs 31g 127 cal (6% of cals)
Fat 131g 1214 cal (61% of cals)
Protein 162g 664 cal (33% of cals)
It also explains why I've been having a hard time eating 2500 calories...
Shit don't have to be so expensive.
Do-Wins $119
http://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-weightlifting-shoes.php
inzer Belt $89
My buddy is like a carbon copy of yours
What kind of information? What my diet was before the one I'm taking, the programme I'm doing?
RumblingRosco
Member
Something I've always considered that I feel most people don't think about, but, the heavier you are, as long as you maintain the same physical activity level, the more calories you'll burn. This is simple physics, but it obviously takes more energy for someone that weighs 175 kg to take a step than for a 125 kg person. Thus, if you're eating 3,000 calories/day now and you're gaining weight, as long as you 100% maintain your activity and calorie intake levels, eventually, you'll plateau and no longer gain weight. Where that plateau lies varies from person to person based on what they're eating and their level of activity, but it definitely exists.
Personally, I think gaining 4-5 kg in one week is a bit on the high side, BUT, as I said, you will plateau eventually. Worst case, you feel like you are a bit too large, you can cut back the calories a bit and slowly shed off a few kgs.
Rabbitweed
Member
Okay, a change of plans... Was planning to wait until the next spring before my cut but decided to start the cut already this week. I hate that I can't fit in to my old jeans anymore and I also want my lean face back since I have to return to the dating scene (broke up with my gf recently). I think I will diet for two months and see what kind of progress I've achieved after that. I weigh ca 217 at the moment and I'm hoping to be around 200 by November. I dropped all unhealthy foods & drinks on Monday and it's been suprisingly easy so far to stick to my eating plan. MyFitnessPal definitely comes in handy now and keeps me motivated..
I don't want to gain that much, only 0.5kg a week. Is it possible to have an initial spike in weight when entering a bulking phase?
Edit: is it possible to gain more than 1kg per week?
RumblingRosco
Member
It is possible to have an initial spike, but it's hard to tell if that's water, fat , or muscle. Almost assuredly a significant portion of that is water. How many calories were you eating, roughly, before you started trying to gain weight, and how much are you eating now?
It is possible to gain more than 1 kg per week, but there's basically no way that it is all muscle, and you'd have to be eating a ton to manage that consistently.
+1 for golden age bodybuilding looking better
MrOogieBoogie
BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
So when is the best time to check in on your bulk progress?
After two weeks? After a month?
I'm going to get a meal plan sorted with an expert at my gym. I'm thinking a lot of it will be water weight. I tried doing the diet stuff by myself but it is proving too difficult since we don't eat a lot of the same foods.
FallingEdge
Member
Ideally, you do it once a week. If the number on the scale is going up at a pace you find acceptable, then stick with it. Not what you want? Time to switch it up a bit.
You can get do-win shoes straight from the factory at a fraction of that price.
A while back, I emailed do-win saying I was thinking of selling do-win shoes in the UK and I wanted a sample to see what the quality is like. I paid $32 for my shoes, including delivery. The same shoes on rogue fitness, at the time, cost close to $180.
BronzeWolf
Banned
I shall get new ones for my business in Latin America :O
FallingEdge
Member
Don't they follow up on that kind of thing? Someone else try it and let me know if it works.
BronzeWolf
Banned
You just show the customs papers and you are good. They don't have to pay sales taxes on exported stuff so, it's a wash anyway
Definitely. You could actually look up to those guys and think "I wish I looked like that".
That's not really the case when you look at Jay Cutler or Phil Heath.
I guess Pro Bodybuilding started to veer towards the "freak" physiques as soon as HGH started to become widely available in the late 80s. It's not even the steroids that build the freaks; it's the HGH. The bodybuilders in the 60s and 70s already were juiced to the gills, but the difference is that they did not use HGH for size.
This Van Moger guy actually kind of resembles Arnold in his prime (though this guy's smaller). He even mimics some of the stuff Arnold does in Pumping Iron, right down to the facial expressions. Pretty cool. Ironically he also has the kind of physique a lot of people try to pass up as natural these days. I don't know if he claims to be natural, because he almost certainly isn't.
Anyone here familiar with keto? I'm starting it in a couple days and am also looking to start exercising. I'm quite heavy and haven't exercised in a long time, so I'm probably going to stick with elliptical for now, but don't know how often or how long I should go for.
Going in for an hour on Mon/Wed/Fri make sense? Should I just go for lifting as well with my cardio, I'm not that concerned with gaining muscle, just losing weight.
Going in for an hour on Mon/Wed/Fri make sense? Should I just go for lifting as well with my cardio, I'm not that concerned with gaining muscle, just losing weight.
Chin-ups. You could also do some barbell curls at the end of your session on Fridays.
Just keep it short and simple.
Don't worry too much about your arms right now.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
You know, depending on your discipline, you MIGHT be better served exclusively focusing on diet without exercise. Drop a significant amount of that weight and your mobility will be way up and you'll have a much better and less injury-prone experience. Plus you get the added benefit of focus. Stack too many changes on top of each other and something can give.
You say "quite heavy" so I really can't recommend it enough - go diet only for a few months, maybe up to six - then worry about exercise.
Gotcha, I'll add in some curls then, starting tomorrow. Thanks!
Also, out of genuine interest, may I ask why? I get asked quite a bit about the lack of arm exercises in my schedule and I never really have a good answer!
FallingEdge
Member
The general idea is that you are focused on building your base and going from there. As a beginner, there is no real reason to focus on isolation. That being said, if you want to add curls, chins, reverse curls, etc, you can. You would do them after all your main lifts. Right now, these are your accessory exercises. As you start to progress more and more and start to understand your body more, having a dedicated arm day will start to make more sense. There are people who seem to have their arms grow by just doing bench and deads. Others (like myself) need a lot more work in that department.
I see, makes sense! Thanks for clearing this up and making my life a bit easier hehe. I'll just start off by adding curls tomorrow and see how that goes.
Lots of injury talk here lately, funny thing is that I recently re-injured my chest (old injury from about 2 years ago). Worse thing is...it wasnt from lifting, it was from yoga arrgg 
. Been out of the gym for about 4 weeks, expect another week and half before im back and another 3 or 4 weeks before lifting heavy again. Injuries sure are tough to deal with mentally, especially as you start to lose mass slowly...
. Been out of the gym for about 4 weeks, expect another week and half before im back and another 3 or 4 weeks before lifting heavy again. Injuries sure are tough to deal with mentally, especially as you start to lose mass slowly...BronzeWolf
Banned
Depending on how heavy you are relative to your height, you might consider following a strength training regime so you don't end up with loose skin anywhere. I am on keto right now, so I can tell you keto does not really interfere that much with lifting, specially if you have quite a good amount of weight to lose, you just have to be sure to get the correct amount of protein. Muscle is not just to look good, it will also improve any weightloss program.
FallingEdge
Member
Because you are doing a strength training program, not a bodybuilding program. All your recovery and your time at the gym should be spent doing what gives you the most bang-for-the-buck, i.e, the compound lifts.
You are already benching, pressing and hopefully doing chin-ups every session, and if you are doing the program correctly, you are increasing the weight on the first two every session as well.
That's why direct arm stuff like curls and triceps pulldowns should be very low priority to you right now.
Obviously it's just broscience for me at this point and I don't follow SS routine, but I do feel like working out my triceps also makes benching easier. I imagine it's the same with biceps and pullups/chinups.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Lots of injury talk here lately, funny thing is that I recently re-injured my chest (old injury from about 2 years ago). Worse thing is...it wasnt from lifting, it was from yoga arrgg
We're scared of the Fit-GAF ghosts. We're haunted in OT6 you know.
Sure. I'm not saying training your triceps in isolation is useless. In fact it becomes necessary to add assistance for the triceps as the trainee reaches the intermediate stage. You need to start addressing weak points.
It's just that, for a beginner, there are no weak points because everything is a weak point, and thus he's better served by doing his 3 compounds per session and just making sure he keeps adding weight to the bar.
Like my newbie friend: he could barely bench 70lb for 5. Does that mean I'm going to add a ton of assistance for him? No, he is at such a phase of his training that just benching is enough to drive his strength gains. His tendons are weak. His muscles are weak. His bones lack density. His central nervous system is very inefficient at making his body move the weight. There are so many things he's adapting to, but the weight is still low enough that he can adapt from session to session thus making it possible to add weight to the bar. And thus benching is more than enough for him.
Yup and even then you don't need too much assistance. 2-3 exercises after your compounds and pull-ups/chins/dips should do ya good.
Unless you're at a more advance level and rockin them 18" swole arms. Maybe then you need some more isolation
Plus I really feel like you gotta work up to that if you're gonna push yourself. I never had shitty feeling shoulders and elbows until I started doing a ton of isolation to fill in the holes of my lower body stuff.
Yeah, for me the priority when it comes to exercise is:
This is basically the order I do them, too.
Barbell squats, when performed correctly and with proper programming will strengthen the tendons, ligaments and muscles around your knees and basically will help you have healthier knees. I had chronic knee pain all my life (from being fat and then from jogging with poor form) until I started squatting.
- Main Compunds: (BP, Squat, DL, OHP)
- Secondary Compounds that directly assist the main compunds: (LTEs, GMs, RDLs, Front Squat, Incline Bench, Dumbbell or BB rows,Rack Pulls, etc.)
- Body Weight stuff: (Chinups, Pullups, Dips, Muscle Ups, GHR, Back Extensions, ab work)
- Isolation Stuff (Curls, pushdowns, flies, etc)
This is basically the order I do them, too.
Barbell squats, when performed correctly and with proper programming will strengthen the tendons, ligaments and muscles around your knees and basically will help you have healthier knees. I had chronic knee pain all my life (from being fat and then from jogging with poor form) until I started squatting.
Agreed.
I think HGH diminished a lot of pro bodybuilders 'character', by that I mean distinguishing characteristics. Frank Zane could have blown up to Arnolds size in the current era of pro bodybuilding. This stuff really does create freaks. Dat dere hyperplasia
not a fan of hook grip either. Although I wish I did like it, because i'm afraid of tearing a bicep with this tendonitis looming over me. Maybe I'm just paranoid.
FallingEdge
Member
I'm generally curious as to what is the max limit for a natural. What can you truly achieve without any drugs.
Well said. That's the order I used to go in too.
Judging by Darth, you can get pretty damn huge naturally. Lets just keep using him as the example.
"You using?"
"Nah bro I'm all Darth"
IronBubbles
Banned
Good list, but no love for any of the power/olympic movements?
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