torre_avenue
Banned
What the actual fuck is this post.
are you suggesting we're misogynistic because we, along with all music critics, consider TPaB better than 1989?
People call Kanye stans delusional, but fucking hell this is a new bar.
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Frank Ocean pens letter to Grammy producers, annihilating them in the process.
- Thread starter torre_avenue
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are you suggesting we're misogynistic because we, along with all music critics, consider TPaB better than 1989?
People call Kanye stans delusional, but fucking hell this is a new bar.
Blonde is probably one of my favorite albums ever (and I'm big into hiphop/Radiohead/Daft Punk/folk/etc etc.) I never got the hate for it. It was a grower for sure. Also it was the definition of the right album at the right time, helped me a lot with accepting myself and coming out.
Frank's petty and salty for this but hey he's got a point. Those Grammy producers had nothing to win or lose by bringing up what happened. We all saw the performance.
Goddamn I think you were listening to the wrong album kid. To Pimp A Butterfly had a lot more to it than that. I get when you say you don't like it, not everybody has to. But Alright was one song, and off the top of my head the christian God was only heavily involved in maybe one or two songs, but what do you expect? Its a significant part of the issues being addresses in the album.
Frank's petty and salty for this but hey he's got a point. Those Grammy producers had nothing to win or lose by bringing up what happened. We all saw the performance.
Goddamn I think you were listening to the wrong album kid. To Pimp A Butterfly had a lot more to it than that. I get when you say you don't like it, not everybody has to. But Alright was one song, and off the top of my head the christian God was only heavily involved in maybe one or two songs, but what do you expect? Its a significant part of the issues being addresses in the album.
Imma just let them stew with that one
torre_avenue
Banned
Someone asked who's doing the Prince tribute at the Grammys.
Someone asked who's doing the Prince tribute at the Grammys.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Diprosalic
Banned
TPAB is better than 1989 but i still quite liked 1989.
I didn't think it was the snub of the century.
I didn't think it was the snub of the century.
I need to give it another listen. I remember being a bit disappointed because I actually loved The Heist.
"Starting Over" and "Neon Cathedral" are legit.
Damerman
Member
this is the shittiest opinion I've ever had the displeasure of reading.
Yep, Bieber made a very wise decision
No surprise, but the Grammys is just a big wank session for the music that received the most promoting. It only honors huge pop acts from big record labels that had tons of money put behind them.
So much good music is overlooked every year just because it isn't what's on pop radio.
Who gives a shit about the Grammys? They literally mean nothing.
You're going to straight-face tell me that 1989 is better than:
David Bowie - Blackstar
Radiohead - A Moon Shaped Pool
Run the Jewels 3?
It's not better than Blonde, either.
So much good music is overlooked every year just because it isn't what's on pop radio.
Who gives a shit about the Grammys? They literally mean nothing.
You're going to straight-face tell me that 1989 is better than:
David Bowie - Blackstar
Radiohead - A Moon Shaped Pool
Run the Jewels 3?
It's not better than Blonde, either.
My point is that Taylor Swift, while a perfectly reasonable thing to enjoy, is not the greatest "artist" of the year.
You can say that is subjective, but I put forth artistic intent as compelling merit. She is manufactured pop music and her music is pretty vapid.
uhhh
I may really really dislike Taylor Swift, but you'll never hear me disrespect her music. It's typically good, her singles are trash, but her albums are A1
For most of their awards, yeah, but AOTY can be a bit of an oddball. Like they gave it to Morning Phase, Random Access Memories, The Suburbs... I wouldn't say those albums were heavily promoted. Of course you do have stuff like 1989 winning sometimes.
What does manufactured pop mean to you?
DOWN
Banned
I like his letter but also think it's bullshit to act like 1989 wasn't even a contender. It blew up across the market, user reviews, listen counts, critics both traditional and from more relevant outlets. One of the biggest albums of the decade in many measures.
It's stupid to act like his definition of success works for him but that another project with success of that nature couldn't possibly be the big winner of an award show for and by the major music scene when even in circles he is celebrated in, 1989 was celebrated. This guy sold his album exclusivity to Apple... Taylor Swift Apple
Real BS was Beyoncé losing to Beck and Maad City losing to Macklemore. Those were widely successful and the winners did not represent the quality and success they had in the most productive communities (and I think those disparities demonstrate the cultural issues of the Grammys). Kind of feels like people shit on the Grammys differently than Oscars and game awards. Like they don't think awarding music is even worth it or ever agreeable because their measurably less popular or competitively successful fav lost and they want to act like there's no debate that their fav should have won. Let's not act like one of the most widely and largely successful albums winning was unarguable and is a good example of why a certain award program is bad
It's stupid to act like his definition of success works for him but that another project with success of that nature couldn't possibly be the big winner of an award show for and by the major music scene when even in circles he is celebrated in, 1989 was celebrated. This guy sold his album exclusivity to Apple... Taylor Swift Apple
Real BS was Beyoncé losing to Beck and Maad City losing to Macklemore. Those were widely successful and the winners did not represent the quality and success they had in the most productive communities (and I think those disparities demonstrate the cultural issues of the Grammys). Kind of feels like people shit on the Grammys differently than Oscars and game awards. Like they don't think awarding music is even worth it or ever agreeable because their measurably less popular or competitively successful fav lost and they want to act like there's no debate that their fav should have won. Let's not act like one of the most widely and largely successful albums winning was unarguable and is a good example of why a certain award program is bad
Dreams-Visions
Member
No annihilation detected. Ocean just sounds super salty. The letter just reads like sour grapes. "Oh yeah, well I never wanted your dumb award because I've done all this other stuff that is way better! "
Grammys are always so mind-bendingly lame that it's almost impossible to destroy them. You cannot denigrate the integrity of an institution that never had integrity in the first place. It only makes you look obsessed with approval when you go off about it.
Also, has someone informed Ocean that the people who produce the Grammy awards ceremony are not actually the ones who determine the winners? I don't see how you can really knock them because your favorite album got curbstomped by Taylor Swift.
Grammys are always so mind-bendingly lame that it's almost impossible to destroy them. You cannot denigrate the integrity of an institution that never had integrity in the first place. It only makes you look obsessed with approval when you go off about it.
Also, has someone informed Ocean that the people who produce the Grammy awards ceremony are not actually the ones who determine the winners? I don't see how you can really knock them because your favorite album got curbstomped by Taylor Swift.
A carefully contrived multimedia project with a lot of disparate people hired to shape its sound and image and a lot of money pushing it into as many ear as possible for the sake of selling a brand as much as a record.
Like, they make a record because making records is their business. I think a lot of musicians just write songs and then, after they feel like they've got enough and they have a concept, they record those songs for an album. People are hired to produce the record but it's not the same as people "making you a star."
Let's look at Radiohead. They tour and take time off and tour and take time off and they write music all the while. Some of that music doesn't get recorded for years, or decades. True Love Waits was written between Pablo Honey and The Bends and it just now appeared on a studio record last year. They percolate. They wait til they are ready. They write songs, not albums. When they do put an album together they fit the pieces together from what they have rather than writing songs *for* an album.
The entire Gorillaz project is a commentary on manufactured pop music.
Jaguar Victory
Member
I never understood the Grammy hate. Who cares who wins. It's an honor to be recognized and nominated. You don't see actors flip their shit over a Academy loss.
Musical taste is so all over the place that one man's genius is another man's trash.
He just comes off as petty here trying to bullet point list his accomplishments. Nobody called him a bum.
Musical taste is so all over the place that one man's genius is another man's trash.
He just comes off as petty here trying to bullet point list his accomplishments. Nobody called him a bum.
bobbychalkers
Member
Excellent clapback but yeah....the Grammys are absolute shit. Especially when it comes to black music in general.
To be real, If I were any other artist that would be in the categories that Frank would have (likely) ended up in, I'd feel very upset even If I won it. It would be a total pyrrhic victory without the elephant in the room that was Blonde in 2016.
To be real, If I were any other artist that would be in the categories that Frank would have (likely) ended up in, I'd feel very upset even If I won it. It would be a total pyrrhic victory without the elephant in the room that was Blonde in 2016.
I think the Grammys seem very much like a popularity contest. Popular =/= better.
Did people flip their shit this much when O Brother Where Art Thou won in 2002? Or when Norah Jones won in 2003?
The only thing entertaining about the Grammys is that they will occasionally come up with some ridiculous off-the-wall pick that ignores popular opinion and even ignores popular genres in favor of something like a compilation of roots music or a jazz pianist. The idea that one album can ever be entitled to win top honors is a bit ridiculous, IMO. The awards are almost invariably a crapshoot anyway, so people's indignation over the albums that didn't win seems even more misplaced (and often employs an appeal to popularity slant).
The only thing entertaining about the Grammys is that they will occasionally come up with some ridiculous off-the-wall pick that ignores popular opinion and even ignores popular genres in favor of something like a compilation of roots music or a jazz pianist. The idea that one album can ever be entitled to win top honors is a bit ridiculous, IMO. The awards are almost invariably a crapshoot anyway, so people's indignation over the albums that didn't win seems even more misplaced (and often employs an appeal to popularity slant).
DOWN
Banned
There's a lot of quality stuff that gets popular and awarded and music is subjective as fuck so lots of people liking it and it getting an award, but you and some others not liking it, doesn't make it a shit award show. It just makes it not for you. But people seem unable to verbalize or consider it that coherently. Find a different outlet that gives out recognition if you care, but don't complain about major popular music from the major music industry at an awards show held by the major music industry, is bad for liking major music successes.
I mean people have flipped their shit over Shakespeare in Love winning instead of Saving Private Ryan and Crash winning instead of Brokeback Mountain or Capote for Best Picture, yeah.
Wafflecakes
Member
The fact that you assume I am a Swift fan is telling.
I simply noted the level of derision that Gaf has towards any music, movies, books, or related media whose primary audience is women. Yes, it is completely valid to think Kanye releases better music than Taylor, however, the moment someone has the reverse opinion it is considered blasphemous. Hell, Taylor could be substituted for ANY artist whose primary audience is women and the same level of bile would have been thrown.
You can talk yourself into believing that there is no sexism involved if it really makes you feel better.
Grenouille
Member
Still baffles me how some artists care enough about Grammys to mention them in songs or send them a letter. I mean, the Oscars get enough criticism, but imagine if Transformers started winning Best Picture. That's what's like when Macklemore beats Kendrick.
I mean I'm not defending Taylor and I certainly don't know the behind the scenes, but she seems like she writes her own shit, creates her own concepts, etc. And she was a country artist beforehand, so she wasn't "invented" to be some massive pop machine either. I agree her image/brand is partially or fully manufactured, but again, I feel like that's her doing. Same with Beyoncé. Everything is a carefully calculated move and plan, but she's probably the one pulling the strings.
I think the pop star who is created by a team is a remnant of the 90s with stars like Britney Spears. I don't feel that such stringent control is exerted on the artists of today in America, but certainly still is a thing in places like Japan and their "idol" business.
Well to be fair, Twilight and Fifty Shades are both awful.
I think the difference between the Oscars and the Grammys is that a certain type of film almost invariably wins the Oscars, but the Grammys are all over the place. So on those rare occasions when the Oscars buck historical trends, some people do kinda lose their shit. Those picks were contentious, but there weren't many filmmakers still screaming about them 2-3 years down the line. Damien Chazelle isn't refusing to submit La La Land to the Oscars because Brokeback Mountain didn't win.
The Grammys are historically all over the map, much more so than the Oscars. So I don't feel like people should take the loss quite so hard. In the last couple decades they've given top awards to all kinds of weird dark horses -- O Brother, Norah Jones, Robert Planet/Allison Krauss, Beck, Herbie friggin' Hancock, etc. The idea that a top-selling album in a culturally relevant genre is more entitled to win is kind of silly, given the precedence.
Wafflecakes
Member
Fair, but can you name a single piece of media whose audience is say.... 60-70%+ women that Gaf has anything better than derision for? The best case scenario is that gaf ignores them.
It should be a more balanced show with a wider range. Music is subjective yet the same people or types of people continually get nominated and win. It's not because they are the best, it's because they have the most exposure.
The Grammys have been lambasted as old, out of touch, and irrelevant for as long as I can remember. Even back when I was a kid in the '80s people mocked them for being stuck in music two decades previous and not recognizing where the real talent and interesting new music was coming from, as the academy merrily ignored the rise of hip hop and metal. Nothing has changed much, and the Grammys are periodically dragged kicking and screaming into modern music every few years as it grudgingly hands out nominations to people like Frank Ocean who were never going to win over the academy darling of the moment.
All the major awards have issues, but the Grammys in particular have been a joke for decades and show no sign of caring about their perceived irrelevance. I mean at least the Emmys try.
LeroyPantwether
Member
Why do people like TPAB so much?
What types of people continually get nominated and win? I mean, they have categories for every genre and type of music, so it's not like one particular audience is being ignored. Categories like Record of the Year and Album of the Year will inevitably be a massive unpredictable clusterfuck, since they pit wildly different artists against each other.
It's an industry-driven awards show, so expecting the best to win is not even remotely realistic. Winners will be whoever a large group of people voting can reach a consensus on. Almost invariably that will not be someone who is really breaking boundaries or expanding the artform.
it's good
it's great
LeroyPantwether
Member
That's what I keep hearing, but could you elaborate?
Oh lol I thought you were referring to O Brother the movie, implying that it had won an Oscar...my bad no I totally agree with you, the Grammys are a crapshoot sometimes with snubbing really great artists and albums for random shit, and sometimes those more random winners are entirely deserving, like the Suburbs
it's amazing
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