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G. Maddux, T. Glavine, F. Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame
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Hellshadow
Member
ouch
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
Bonds. Clemens. Rose.
Farce.
Farce.
ConfusingJazz
Member
HoF Voters suck.
What I wanted to say but didn't.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
All deserving, but Biggio missing by such a narrow margin sucks for him.
Trammell and Raines who should have been first ballot guys continue languishing in the lower depths of the ballot, too. And Piazza, Bagwell, Walker, Bonds, Clemens, Martinez, Mussina and Kent should all be in, too. I get why voters are punishing Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and Palmeiro (although Palmeiro falling off the ballot is a complete joke), but there's no sense in punishing Jeff Bagwell just because he had big biceps. I don't agree with the punishing even of Bonds and Clemens, but that's at least kind of defensible, even if they should be in. Punishing other guys as being guilty by association is a farce. There needs to be a real culling of the voting rights for some of these elder BBWAA voters.
Trammell and Raines who should have been first ballot guys continue languishing in the lower depths of the ballot, too. And Piazza, Bagwell, Walker, Bonds, Clemens, Martinez, Mussina and Kent should all be in, too. I get why voters are punishing Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and Palmeiro (although Palmeiro falling off the ballot is a complete joke), but there's no sense in punishing Jeff Bagwell just because he had big biceps. I don't agree with the punishing even of Bonds and Clemens, but that's at least kind of defensible, even if they should be in. Punishing other guys as being guilty by association is a farce. There needs to be a real culling of the voting rights for some of these elder BBWAA voters.
FrenchToastDisciple
Member
pretty much my sentiments on the subject.
You know, it seems as though a majority of people agree with these sort of statements. Makes me wonder, are the voters the only ones in the world that don't want steroid superstars in the HoF? Every time I read about this on any site it seems most people are in agreement that the HoF is a joke..
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
Kurkjian just said Biggio gets in next year.
He will.
Ragingbegal
Member
Not really sure how you put Frank Thomas in the Hall of Fame and not any of the other steroid users. (Cubs fan)
Junior Asparagus
Member
No love for Schilling? I feel like I'd vote him in over a guy like Mussina.
Voters are crazy though. I find it hard to believe that even 2.8% of any sensible group of baseball people don't think Maddux should be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.
Voters are crazy though. I find it hard to believe that even 2.8% of any sensible group of baseball people don't think Maddux should be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
No way he doesn't after only missing by two votes.
Some other folks who came close might have to wait even longer, though. The ballot will be even more crowded next year with Pedro, Johnson and Smoltz almost certainly getting in on their first try, and Sheffield has a pretty good case, too. Unless they do something about the 10 player limit, not much is going to change next year except who the ones getting in are.
Schilling belongs in, too. The ballot is so crowded right now that I think I forgot he was even there until just now.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
It's a shame that Thomas never won a World Series.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Wasn't he on the 2005 White Sox at the beginning of the season prior to getting injured? He should have gotten a ring for that, even if it isn't the same as actually playing in the series itself.
Junior Asparagus
Member
Here's the full results from the HOF website.
Who votes for these guys at the bottom of the list??
Who votes for these guys at the bottom of the list??
Code:
PLAYER VOTES % YRS ON BALLOT
Greg Maddux 555 97.20% 1st
Tom Glavine 525 91.90% 1st
Frank Thomas 478 83.70% 1st
Craig Biggio 427 74.80% 2nd
Mike Piazza 355 62.20% 2nd
Jack Morris 351 61.50% 15th
Jeff Bagwell 310 54.30% 4th
Tim Raines 263 46.10% 7th
Roger Clemens 202 35.40% 2nd
Barry Bonds 198 34.70% 2nd
Lee Smith 171 29.90% 12th
Curt Schilling 167 29.20% 2nd
Edgar Martinez 144 25.20% 5th
Alan Trammell 119 20.80% 13th
Mike Mussina 116 20.30% 1st
Jeff Kent 87 15.20% 1st
Fred McGriff 67 11.70% 5th
Mark McGwire 63 11.00% 8th
Larry Walker 58 10.20% 4th
Don Mattingly 47 8.20% 14th
Sammy Sosa 41 7.20% 2nd
Rafael Palmeiro 25 4.40% 4th
Moises Alou 6 1.10% 1st
Hideo Nomo 6 1.10% 1st
Luis Gonzalez 5 0.90% 1st
Eric Gagne 2 0.40% 1st
J.T. Snow 2 0.40% 1st
Armando Benitez 1 0.20% 1st
Jacque Jones 1 0.20% 1st
Kenny Rogers 1 0.20% 1st
Sean Casey 0 0.00% 1st
Ray Durham 0 0.00% 1st
Todd Jones 0 0.00% 1st
Paul Lo Duca 0 0.00% 1st
Richie Sexson 0 0.00% 1st
*All candidates in italics received less than 5% of the vote on ballots cast and will be removed from future BBWAA considerationIf Bonds and Clemens get in you got to put Big Mac in.
My ballot would have been:
Biggio
Glavine
Maddux
Thomas
Schilling
ConfusingJazz
Member
Also, Deadspin announced earlier in the year they "bought" a HoF vote, and let their readers vote on who got in.
It was Dan LeBatard, and his price was 0 dollars.
http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-of-fame-voter-who-turned-his-ballot-1496558341
It was Dan LeBatard, and his price was 0 dollars.
http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-of-fame-voter-who-turned-his-ballot-1496558341
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Tough because there's so many guys who deserve it.
If limited to 10 players like with the actual ballot, mine would have been:
Maddux
Glavine
Thomas
Trammell
Raines
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Bagwell
Piazza
If I could, I'd vote for Kent, Schilling, Mussina, Walker, Martinez, McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro as well.
Local writers who covered them? Trolls? Jacque Jones's mother?
I really hope some of those guys aren't people who left Biggio off their ballot.
I said Bonds and Clemens wouldn't be on my ballot. But with roids taken completely out of the equation, McGwire wasn't in their universe as a player. Bonds was an elite OF in his youth and stole 500+ bases.
I always liked Frank, but they shoulda got the Crime Dog in there for the trifecta. If only Smoltz didn't keep pitching until he was 800 years old.
Anyways, I really really don't like Glavine. I watched the man throw a large portion of his pitches low and away for years and years and I just couldn't understand why batters didn't murder his pitches. I understand they are very hard balls to hit given his delivery and some decent movement. Still, he would just keep throwing that shit over and over and over again no matter if dudes were hitting it or not. It drove me mad.
Anyways, I really really don't like Glavine. I watched the man throw a large portion of his pitches low and away for years and years and I just couldn't understand why batters didn't murder his pitches. I understand they are very hard balls to hit given his delivery and some decent movement. Still, he would just keep throwing that shit over and over and over again no matter if dudes were hitting it or not. It drove me mad.
Junior Asparagus
Member
Reading the article, Dan LeBatard wasn't the original person who they agreed to buy the vote from--the original plan fell through and LeBatard was the backup. They plan to buy the original person's vote next year.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
They're remarkably close in terms of overall careers. 83 WAR for Schilling compared to 82 WAR for Mussina. Schilling had better strikeouts and a higher peak, but Mussina had a longer stretch of being very good. They're pretty close in my mind.
TheJollyCorner
Member
Good trio of players.
Loved watching Maddux in Chicago.
Loved watching Maddux in Chicago.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Three voters have already said on twitter that they wanted to vote for Biggio but couldn't because of the 10 player limit and having 10 others who they voted for.
So, if not for that arbitrary limit Biggio would have gotten in.
Lofton falling off on the first ballot was criminal, as it was with Lou Whitaker and Kevin Brown. Just another in the long line of boneheaded mistakes by the voters.
So, if not for that arbitrary limit Biggio would have gotten in.
Lofton falling off on the first ballot was criminal, as it was with Lou Whitaker and Kevin Brown. Just another in the long line of boneheaded mistakes by the voters.
The Big Hurt was always seen as "clean" becasue he was very vocal about how baseball should test for PEDs and volunteered to be first in line to be tested.
Ignoring the pointless 10 player limit, my own ballot would be:
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
Frank Thomas
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Curt Schilling
Edgar Martinez
Alan Trammell
Mike Mussina
Jeff Kent
Larry Walker
I think Bonds if he never cheated would have a strong arguement for being one of the best position players of all time.
I don't think Mac, Bonds, Clemens, or any of that group should get in. If you look at McGwire's career WAR, he was a good fielding first baseman, and everything he would if he wasn't a cheater deserve to get in.
Bonds is the heart breaker. He was brilliant before PEDs ever entered his body and it's sad that it will cloud his whole career.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Yeah he got a ring, but it's only symbolic of what he meant to the team. I'm pretty sure he still isn't listed as a World Series Champion in the record books or in personal stats.
Looking at the list of guys in the voting now, I'm surprised to see that Alan Trammell isn't in there. I would've figured he'd go in right away. Not sure if he was the same year as Lou Whitaker, but that duo seemed like a shoe-in, they were perfect together.
I know he wasn't there for their glory days, but I sure wish Mattingly would get in there. I really enjoyed watching him play back in the late 80s, and it almost seems wrong for a Yankee captain to not be in there, you know?
I'd also like to see guys like Tim Raines and Edgar Martinez get in, but next year's first timers include Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and Sheffield. I'd imagine they'll get the majority of the votes.
Delicious Waffles
Member
Piazza not getting in makes me sad.
lastflowers
Banned
Biggio and Bagwelllllllllllll
So, only Palmero got screwed by the size of the class and got kicked off the ballot? I guess it could have been worse.
Not saying he does or doesn't deserve to be in, but the class size this year is probably the reason he got less then 5% as opposed to people changing their minds.
Edit: Maybe Morris, which definitely sucks.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The thing that sucks for Palmeiro is that while the voting body may eventually relent on steroids (younger writers who start to get their voting privileges over the next ten years or so), I doubt the veteran's committee will ever induct a known juicer. Barring a complete restructure, he's never going to get in.
FunnyBunny
Member
Writers who did not vote for Maddux should lose their vote.
Seriously.
Seriously.
brandonh83
Banned
I had a baseball signed by Greg Maddux about fifteen years ago.
I lost it.
I lost it.
I have one signed by Glavine somewhere from around '95 or so.
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