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[Simplet]

All of this has been established and explained in the show. Whether you like these explanations is one thing, but it isn't something that's just been written off, they've directly confronted these questions this very season.

1) Yes, the defection does serve as a reason for a weakened Tyrell force. In addition, this very episode explained how the Tyrells were very firmly caught off-guard; the expectation was that the Lannister army would be defending Casterly Rock and King's Landing (as Lady Olena explains to Jamie in talking about Tyrion's strategy). A fight over Highgarden did occur, we see the aftermath. Why not show the fight? Well, that's a very valid question, but with seven episodes this season and six in the next the question which arises is if it's really a valuable use of the very limited time remaining to focus on what's ultimately a very minor battle compared to what's to come.

2) The expectation was that Castery Rock would be well-defended, and by being seen as an important symbol of the Lannister's power, it falling would be very symbolic and result in people losing confidence in Cersei's ability to defend them. What they did not expect was that it would only be lightly guarded and basically abandoned so that they could take the much more important (in terms of practical significance) Highgarden. Tyrion may be a very clever person, but his only experience of wartime strategy is his defence of Blackwater Bay, whereas everybody on Westeros has had years of experience. His plan was in theory clever, but did not really take into account Euron's domination of the seas (now how earned that is one can also question).

3) Because with the smaller army she would have been content forcibly taken King's Landing. The entire reason she's failing here is because she refuses to go for the most bloodthirsty approach and heed Olenna's advice. She doesn't want to unleash a Dothraki horde upon Westeros and have the citizens hate her (and justify the views as a foreign conquerer/invader), she wants them to be inspired by her and support her claim out of love. If she attacked King's Landing directly she would be in a much better position now. Her refusing to do that is what's crippled her forces.

Obviously they would try to give a semblance of justification for the events, that doesn't mean it makes any sense. The Bolton controlled the entire north and took almost an entire season to get back Moat Cailin, a dilapidated fort held by a handful of disease-ridden ironborns, and they had to get Theon to betray them in the end. The same Lannister army, with the Freys at its side, was ready to lay siege to Riverrun for two years, even though there were only what appeared to be a few hundred Tullly soldiers inside at most. And you're going to tell me that a fraction of the Lannister army just walked up to one of the most legendary castles in the land and grabbed it in an afternoon?

How unprepared could the Tyrell have been? They were ready to launch an invasion themselves, and they've been hoarding supplies for the whole show. Surely they would have had time to see an army marching up all the way to their front door.

 

[wesleyshark]

Was Bran mind-jacked into Littlefinger's head? The things they said were curiously similar...

Definitely seems likely that Bran is up to something we aren't aware of yet. LFs return to form, the comment about her in her wedding dress (but which wedding?). Lots of curious things.

Alternatively

That movie is such a guilty pleasure of mine

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

She should be sending emissaries out and travelling to convince everyone that she is better than Cersei, much like what Jon had to do last season to pull together the north. Show up with her dragons, but don't burn anyone.

Instead, holding up at Dragonstone lets Cersei dictate the narrative. It doesn't seem like they are sending out scouts either to gather intelligence. It shouldn't be hard to see where the Lannister's army's at. They are doing this ad hoc, which kinda make sense since that is how she operated and always fell back on using the dragons.



Dorne will also be completely fine, now that they are rid of their ruling house.

The fact that Varys spy ring has been unable to properly predict or intercept communications/army movements is either

1) Extremely poor writing

2) A plot point

Has he ever mentioned what happened to his little birds?

I've always been on the fence of Danny. I can't tell what the writers wan't the audience to think of her, because I'm reading her like someone who could easily go unhinged and basically burn shit down (which based on "Queen of Ashes prophecy shit, she will most likely do just that"

Jamie made a good point, once the war is over, will people really care how the throne was won? Will people give a shit how awful of a person Cersie is when she is able to bring stability to the region and be known to have starved off an invading fleet of barbarians, sellswods, and fire breathing dragons?

Is Varys thinking similar things? He keeps going on and on about the good of the realm, and in reality, the good of the realm is with Cerise winning this war and not having dragons burn entire armies to the ground.

But I think Varys has already played his hand, not like he can go back to Kings Landing.

 

[nubbe]

Obviously they would try to give a semblance of justification for the events, that doesn't mean it makes any sense. The Bolton controlled the entire north and took almost an entire season to get back Moat Cailin, a dilapidated fort held by a handful of disease-ridden ironborns, and they had to get Theon to betray them in the end. The same Lannister army, with the Freys at its side, was ready to lay siege to Riverrun for two years, even though there were only what appeared to be a few hundred Tullly soldiers inside at most. And you're going to tell me that a fraction of the Lannister army just walked up to one of the most legendary castles in the land and grabbed it in an afternoon?

How unprepared could the Tyrell have been? They were ready to launch an invasion themselves, and they've been hoarding supplies for the whole show. Surely they would have had time to see an army coming all the way to their front door.

Randyll Tarly went with the crown and I would assume the rest of the Tyrell banner men followed him.

The fact that Varys spy ring has been unable to properly predict or intercept communications/army movements is either

1) Extremely poor writing

2) A plot point

Has he ever mentioned what happened to his little birds?

Qyburn took the local birds after the citadel blowout

 

[Psychological Intellect]

Definitely seems likely that Bran is up to something we aren't aware of yet. LFs return to form, the comment about her in her wedding dress (but which wedding?). Lots of curious things.

That movie is such a guilty pleasure of mine

Oooooh snappp

 

[PR_rambo]

We know the throne will be ashes, we just don't know how yet

That's not ashes, that's Snow ;]

 

[Conkerkid11]

All the callbacks this episode were fantastic. This season's writing has been really great in terms of continuity.

Fuck all this Euron shit though. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on the iron throne.

Oooooh snappp

He made mention of their own home in the same statement though. Also, white dress when marrying Ramsay (not a white dress when marrying Tyrion), and that took place out in the Godswood where Bran would have seen in.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I feel I'm begging and hoping for the writers to be more clever than I think they are.

 

[The One Who Knocks]

The fact that Varys spy ring has been unable to properly predict or intercept communications/army movements is either

1) Extremely poor writing

2) A plot point

Has he ever mentioned what happened to his little birds?

Qyburn seized control of Varys' 'little birds' in his absence. It was one of Cersei's original instructions to Qyburn (I can't remember which season). It's a plot point.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o11HskjYhg

 

[TONX]

I still think the last episode ends with Jaime killing Cersei.

#Believe

#Queenslayer

 

[nubbe]

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Qyburn seized control of Varys' 'little birds' in his absence. It was one of Cersei's original instructions to Qyburn (I can't remember which season). It's a plot point.

That makes sense, but still, the fact that Danny is basically flying blind and is completely fine with moving major parts of her fleets and armed forces literally around the continent screams of incompetence and something that shouldn't ever happen.

Even then, you would think Varys would be able to retain a portion of his spy network, considering he was the one that recruited most of them or was involved in such a process. Reminds me of spy movies and recruiting people under someone. Usually if that main person dies, that network goes dark. Just a nitpick though.

Edit: Well, those are the little birds in the city. His spy ring clearly was far, far greater than just Kings Landing.

 

[wesleyshark]

All the callbacks this episode were fantastic. This season's writing has been really great in terms of continuity.

Fuck all this Euron shit though. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on the iron throne.


He made mention of their own home in the same statement though. Also, white dress when marrying Ramsay (not a white dress when marrying Tyrion), and that took place out in the Godswood where Bran would have seen in.

Doesn't necessarily mean he was seeing the wedding with Ramsay...that being said, it's definitely a safe assumption to make. I just don't take anything Bran says at face value, given his vagueness and only seeing fragments of things currently.

 

[number11]

I actually liked watching this episode at the time. Now I'm starting to hate it after reading these comments lol. Thinking about it we really did spend seasons watching Daenerys build an army only for it to get destroyed by Euron's magical fleet. Dany was way too overpowered at the start of this season, but surely they could have done something better to even things out.

 

[wesleyshark]

I actually liked watching this episode at the time. Now I'm starting to hate it after reading these comments lol. Thinking about it we really did spend seasons watching Daenerys build an army only for it to get destroyed by Euron's magical fleet. Dany was way too overpowered at the start of this season, but surely they could have done something better to even things out.

I think that's something that is a victim of the shorter season. A full ten episodes or even perhaps an 8th could have allowed them to flesh her defeats out a bit more. It feels rushed because they most likely saved their budget for whatever is happening at the end of the season, so these current battles are just stepping stones to get characters where they need to be.

 

[Steejee]

I actually liked watching this episode at the time. Now I'm starting to hate it after reading these comments lol. Thinking about it we really did spend seasons watching Daenerys build an army only for it to get destroyed by Euron's magical fleet. Dany was way too overpowered at the start of this season, but surely they could have done something better to even things out.

Well if it makes you feel better - she still has the Unsullied and Dothraki. Dothraki are at Dragonstone, Unsullied lost their ships but did take Casterly Rock (they probably lost *some* people to Euron, but I'm guessing most were ashore)

I enjoyed the episode for the most part, even for all the rather fast moving bits. I mean, c'mon Highgarden, how the hell did you lose a siege so fast? Did you guys forget to lock the door? It's clear they're trying to clear out the extraneous bits quickly to leave the main plot threads for the tail end of this season and the final season. We've seen enough battles in the show that they didn't need to blow much money on Lannister vs Highgarden or Unsullied vs Lannister, battles that aren't particularly important to the main plot. Kinda goes back to S1 in a way too, where they showed basically none of the battles.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Randyll Tarly went with the crown and I would assume the rest of the Tyrell banner men followed him.

Qyburn took the local birds after the citadel blowout

I rather not have to assume all or most of Tyrell banner men followd Tarly. Better for it to be shown or implied but this show is feeling rushed. Shit they could have shown different banners as Jaime approached Highgarden and Olenna could have briefly mention how all their banner men betrayed House Tyrell.

 

[nubbe]

I rather not have to assume all or most of Tyrell banner men followd Tarly. Better for it to be shown or implied but this show is feeling rushed. Shit they could have shown different banners as Jaime approached Highgarden and Olenna could have briefly mention how all their banner men betrayed House Tyrell.

The show is rushed at this point since there is no thousand page script to work from
They write it and produce it in less than a year
Some things just need to be read between the lines at this point

 

[denx]

It really bugs me how they retconned the Iron Bank to have it profit from the slave trade.

edit: unless the banker is a disguised Arya.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

Btw for those of you who haven't seen Diana Rigg in her day, she was quite the looker

Yup. Diana Rigg played Tracy in On Her Majesty's Secret Service... aka the one and only "Mrs. James Bond"

 

[TRUE ORDER]

Lady Olenna :/
Well, I liked the episode but some of you are right, Daenerys defeats feel somewhat rushed, hopefully it is not a trend in future episodes.

 

[Sony]

Euron is the embodiment of nope.gif

 

[denx]

The dumb thing is that by adding a couple lines of dialogue and making some minor changes to some shots they could make Dany getting her ass kicked make much more sense. For example, they could had added a line that explained that most Reach houses aren't fans of Dany, the Dothraki and the Unsullied and thus they've pledged allegiance to House Tarly, which would explain why Highgarden was so undefended. Also the Ironborn attacking the Unsullied fleet at Casterly Rock would had made more sense had they explained Euron keeps part of the fleet stationed at the Iron Islands. Removing the Silence from the shot of the naval battle would also had prevented the "Euron teleports around Westeros" thing.

D&D are really dropping the ball in these sort of details this season.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

The dumb thing is that by adding a couple lines of dialogue and making some minor changes to some shots they could make Dany getting her ass kicked make much more sense. For example, they could had added a line that explained that most Reach houses aren't fans of Dany, the Dothraki and the Unsullied and thus they've pledged allegiance to House Tarly, which would explain why Highgarden was so undefended. Also the Ironborn attacking the Unsullied fleet at Casterly Rock would had made more sense had they explained Euron keeps part of the fleet stationed at the Iron Islands. Removing the Silence from the shot of the naval battle would also had prevented the "Euron teleports around Westeros" thing.

D&D are really dropping the ball in these sort of details this season.

Or saving the sneak attack to a later scene that implies some type of time gap between the sacking of the castle and the ambush.

But yea, the more I'm reading and watching, the more obvious so many easy to add details that would make these events so much more easier to swallow.

 

[Emwitus]

I miss the old Brandon Stark. This new Bran is weird as hell.. wtf was he blabbering about Sansas wedding to Ransey. She didn't need to hear all of that. The dude could have said a million other things to prove to her he has the ability to watch everything but he chose that moment. Dude sounding creepy as hell.

Sansa send his ass back to the north of the wall.

Uhm, he specifically said he sees fragments right before he made that statement. He might have seen her in a wedding dress but not the events before or after.

 

[Conkerkid11]

The dumb thing is that by adding a couple lines of dialogue and making some minor changes to some shots they could make Dany getting her ass kicked make much more sense. For example, they could had added a line that explained that most Reach houses aren't fans of Dany, the Dothraki and the Unsullied and thus they've pledged allegiance to House Tarly, which would explain why Highgarden was so undefended. Also the Ironborn attacking the Unsullied fleet at Casterly Rock would had made more sense had they explained Euron keeps part of the fleet stationed at the Iron Islands. Removing the Silence from the shot of the naval battle would also had prevented the "Euron teleports around Westeros" thing.

D&D are really dropping the ball in these sort of details this season.

Is this not the ship Euron rides around on?

 

[Einchy]

Uhm, he specifically said he sees fragments right before he made that statement. He might have seen her in a wedding dress but not the events before or after.

I dunno, he alludes to the rape. What other terrible things have happened to Sansa specifically in Winterfell?

 

[Conkerkid11]

I dunno, he alludes to the rape. What other terrible things have happened to Sansa specifically in Winterfell?

He could literally just be referring to the act of marrying Ramsay.

That's not probably it though. It's definitely creepy Bran.

Yes it is. It even has a name, Silence.

Oh, my bad. That post makes more sense now.

 

[Machina]

Is this not the ship Euron rides around on?

Yes it is. It even has a name, Silence.

 

[redfox088]

Is Arya he Iron Banker in disguise?

 

[denx]

Is this not the ship Euron rides around on?

Yep. Having it appear at that battle was completely unnecesary.

 

[Pagusas]

Is Arya he Iron Banker in disguise?

No, She's heading to Winterfell.

 

[NightShift]

After not really liking the first two episodes this season, this episode was great! It finally feels like the end is approaching at a rapid pace and that the promised quality of each episode due to shorter seasons has started to show.

Also, the red woman should have just said "A Song of Ice and Fire". Don't try to hide it, everybody already knows the show has fully evolved into fan service by now.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Is Arya he Iron Banker in disguise?

She would have had to travel to Braavos, kill whoever that guy was, then travel to King's Landing via a ship from Braavos.

She's going to Winterfell.

 

[KHlover]

The dumb thing is that by adding a couple lines of dialogue and making some minor changes to some shots they could make Dany getting her ass kicked make much more sense. For example, they could had added a line that explained that most Reach houses aren't fans of Dany, the Dothraki and the Unsullied and thus they've pledged allegiance to House Tarly, which would explain why Highgarden was so undefended. Also the Ironborn attacking the Unsullied fleet at Casterly Rock would had made more sense had they explained Euron keeps part of the fleet stationed at the Iron Islands. Removing the Silence from the shot of the naval battle would also had prevented the "Euron teleports around Westeros" thing.

D&D are really dropping the ball in these sort of details this season.

That was literally the entire point of Jaime and Tarly's dialogue last episode. Why would they need to spell it out again one episode later? If the attack on Highgarden happened towards the end of the season I'd agree, but these were literally back-to-back episodes.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I know its probably been discussed a hundred times already in this thread but my main question for this series now is who kills Cersei, I mean she has to go - no way she is making it out of this series alive and into the last one, right? The list of potential candidates is pretty big and each have their own vaild reasons for wanting to off her but any thoughts on who it might be?

Arya
Sansa
Dany
Jamie
Tyrion

Personally, my money is on Arya. The showdown between those two characters, if it ever happens is going to be immense!

 

[Figgles]

I don't think it's a stretch for Euron's ship to catch up to the unsullied. That thing looks like it's fast. The rest of the fleet probably began pursuing the unsullied after the battle against Yara's fleet, while Euron delivered the sand snakes to cersei. Euron left immediately, so he wouldn't have been far behind.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I can't see why anyone would assume the banker is Arya considering she is coming in on horseback and I would assume someone from Davos would come in by boat and be seen.

How would

She know about many of the alliances in Westeros

The details of why Cersie nuked the cept.

Anything about the details of the debts of House Lanister or how they are completely broke.

Let alone the fact that he got there by boat. Unless she was in KL and killed an innocent banker.

 

[redfox088]

She would have had to travel to Braavos, kill whoever that guy was, then travel to King's Landing via a ship from Braavos.

She's going to Winterfell.

The girl who she was disguised as when she killed walder last season was alive and pouring wine in the season opener. I get a really ominous vibe from the banker but we shall see.....

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

The girl who she was disguised as when she killed walder last season was alive and pouring wine in the season opener. I get a really ominous vibe from the banker but we shall see.....

Ummm, that's not possible considering you need to kill someone and take their face in order to use it.

Nothing makes sense about Arya being the banker.

 

[Einchy]

The girl who she was disguised as when she killed walder last season was alive and pouring wine in the season opener. I get a really ominous vibe from the banker but we shall see.....

How would Arya know about the Iron Bank and it's connections to the Lannister, though? Also, we saw that she's headed North last episode.

 

[roytheone]

Great episode. A lot of stuff happened and the dialog was mostly great. The final exchange between Jamie and Olenna was amazing, a true boss until the very end. I also appreciate the return of Mycroft the iron bank, since I wondered what their position was. They were barely mentioned last season even though they are supposed to be a very powerful force, so it is good to see them back into play.

I am kinda surprised about how quick/rushed the battles have been this season. We now have had 3 big battles and all were super short scenes. Makes you wonder where the budget went for the rest of the season.

Anyway, 10 episodes left! We are basically a full season from the end.

 

[Aikidoka]

I don't think it's a stretch for Euron's ship to catch up to the unsullied. That thing looks like it's fast. The rest of the fleet probably began pursuing the unsullied after the battle against Yara's fleet, while Euron delivered the sand snakes to cersei. Euron left immediately, so he wouldn't have been far behind.

The biggest issue for me, though, is how utterly oblivious Dany is regarding enemy movements. It seems like a very unsatisfying solution for preventing Dany from just taking her dragons and burning Euron's fleet to a crisp as they sail back and forth near dragonstone and KL.

 

[Conkerkid11]

I don't think it's a stretch for Euron's ship to catch up to the unsullied. That thing looks like it's fast. The rest of the fleet probably began pursuing the unsullied after the battle against Yara's fleet, while Euron delivered the sand snakes to cersei. Euron left immediately, so he wouldn't have been far behind.

I don't know how any of this makes sense considering the layout of Westeros though

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I don't know how any of this makes sense considering the layout of Westeros though

It doesn't.

Two half fleets were destroyed by the same single fleet... after they took a bathroom break in KL.

 

[denx]

That was literally the entire point of Jaime and Tarly's dialogue last episode. Why would they need to spell it out again one episode later? If the attack on Highgarden happened towards the end of the season I'd agree, but these were literally back-to-back episodes.

It still feels jarring seeing the Lannister army marching towards Highgarden without seemingly any sort of resistance. Just a single throwaway line by Jaime about how the Reach houses have confirmed their allegiance to House Tarly would do the trick.

About the banker, I'd like to believe that's Arya in disguise if only to explain the big inconsistency of the Iron Bank profiting from the slave trade even though Braavos is a city that has outlawed anything to do with slavery.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Yup. Diana Rigg played Tracy in On Her Majesty's Secret Service... aka the one and only "Mrs. James Bond"

She was also part of the original The Avengers.

 

[Aikidoka]

It doesn't.

Two half fleets were destroyed by the same single fleet... after they took a bathroom break in KL.

Complete with a goddamn parade announcing Euron's departure and arrival. Doesn't exactly take a master spy to figure shit out.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Complete with a goddamn parade announcing Euron's departure and arrival. Doesn't exactly take a master spy to figure shit out.

I don't even understand what all the people living in King's Landing knew about the Sandsnakes and Yara. It's like they heard people were being marched through the streets, and regardless of what they did, they couldn't waste a good opportunity of throwing shit at them and shouting nonsense. That whole scene was cringy in my opinion. Cersei's march made sense. This one didn't.

Months and months are passing within each episode now. Next episode will probably have Jon's banner men balls deep in a dragonglass mine.

They're skipping the boring stuff now. The characters have been established, now we're just seeing the important actions.

If some explanation behind Euron being a damn wizard is considered boring...

That's exactly what Jaime said to Euron. The people don't care who's being marched through the streets - they just like to see heads on pikes.

Ahh...

 

[molnizzle]

It doesn't.

Two half fleets were destroyed by the same single fleet... after they took a bathroom break in KL.

Months and months are passing within each episode now. Next episode will probably have Jon's banner men balls deep in a dragonglass mine.

They're skipping the boring stuff now. The characters have been established, now we're just seeing the important actions.

I don't even understand what all the people living in King's Landing knew about the Sandsnakes and Yara. It's like they heard people were being marched through the streets, and regardless of what they did, they couldn't waste a good opportunity of throwing shit at them and shouting nonsense.

That's exactly what Jaime said to Euron. The people don't care who's being marched through the streets - they just like to see heads on pikes.