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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Cracklox
Member
Really liked the ep.
Regarding Eurons teleporting fleet, what if the force that hit the unsullied fleet came from the Iron isles, which looking at the map is pretty close to Casterly Rock?
Or what if he sent a portion of his fleet to follow the Unsullied while he trashed the ships on the way to Dorne and then went back to Kings Landing himself with his gifts. Unless I missed something he wasn't shown in the brief shot we got of them hitting the Unsullied fleet, just some of his ships.
I dunno, probably grasping at straws but just trying to come up with a logical explanation. Of course if Eurons sighted at Casterly Rock next episode then that all goes out the window
To be fair I don't think he ever was. I think he's said a few times wars and military stuff isn't his strong suit. He kinda fluked the Blackwater Bay battle a little bit. Regardless, I think he made the right move in trying to take Casterly Rock, especially knowing the back way in, but he was just outsmarted in the end
Regarding Eurons teleporting fleet, what if the force that hit the unsullied fleet came from the Iron isles, which looking at the map is pretty close to Casterly Rock?
Or what if he sent a portion of his fleet to follow the Unsullied while he trashed the ships on the way to Dorne and then went back to Kings Landing himself with his gifts. Unless I missed something he wasn't shown in the brief shot we got of them hitting the Unsullied fleet, just some of his ships.
I dunno, probably grasping at straws but just trying to come up with a logical explanation. Of course if Eurons sighted at Casterly Rock next episode then that all goes out the window
To be fair I don't think he ever was. I think he's said a few times wars and military stuff isn't his strong suit. He kinda fluked the Blackwater Bay battle a little bit. Regardless, I think he made the right move in trying to take Casterly Rock, especially knowing the back way in, but he was just outsmarted in the end
UnObtainium17
Member
I miss the old Brandon Stark. This new Bran is weird as hell.. wtf was he blabbering about Sansas wedding to Ransey. She didn't need to hear all of that. The dude could have said a million other things to prove to her he has the ability to watch everything but he chose that moment. Dude sounding creepy as hell.
Sansa send his ass back to the north of the wall.
Sansa send his ass back to the north of the wall.
Seductivpancakes
Member
No but he's kind of boring. I think have two seasons of psycho bad guys is dull.
At least they both have different reasons for being psycho.
UnblessedSoul
Member
So far all the battles have either been 2 minutes long or just skipped altogether, pretty disappointing.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Things feel rushed. Not moving at a brisk pace, but rushed. I wish these reunions and interactions had time to breathe on screen.
Seductivpancakes
Member
We clearly spot Euron's flagship tho.
I don't think they ever named the castle Jaime laid siege to, but I'm pretty sure it's Highgarden, which is also kind of far for Jaime to get there in a day. I can pretend his army was already en route, and he just met them there, but still a long way.
schwabdizzle
Banned
The more and more I watch this season, the more and more I start believing the White Walkers will be the ones destroying King's Landing.
Either them or Cersei.
Bloody amazing episode. The character interactions, the politics, the drama. Fucking fantastic.
People complain about the fights being truncated but they aren't worth showing if it's a one-sided outcome. I'm glad they're saving the time (and the budget) for the wars that really matter.
People complain about the fights being truncated but they aren't worth showing if it's a one-sided outcome. I'm glad they're saving the time (and the budget) for the wars that really matter.
I miss the old Brandon Stark. This new Bran is weird as hell.. wtf was he blabbering about Sansas wedding to Ransey. She didn't need to hear all of that. The dude could have said a million other things to prove to her he has the ability to watch everything but he chose that moment. Dude sounding creepy as hell.
Sansa send his ass back to the north of the wall.
Seriously, that whole scene Im like What a weird ass... I dont blame Sansa for GTFOutta there.
Feels like they've kind of given up on the writing front. Some of these tactics seem bullshit. If the Tyrells had all this money and their strongest allies could be convinced with a single talk, then why didn't Tywin just knock off the Tyrells long ago?
This is more or less how I feel in regards to her story. It feels like a checklist, ticking off the remaining players they don't want in the episodes to come. It's hard to give a damn.
I noticed that too
Monocle
Member
Agreed. The previous episode's pacing did not distract me, but this one felt super rushed after the first few scenes. Especially the storming of Casterly Rock and Highgarden. Came out of nowhere. Over as soon as it began. What a pity.
At least Granny Tyrell was there to cap it off with a bit of zest.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
"Think about it and you'll start to dislike it"- the show.
Trumpism.
They were literally turned through racism.
At this point it's almost an @sspull if Danaerys somehow beats Cersei. She's completely checkmated. The one advantage she thinks she has will get trashed soon enough and then what?
She's getting Jorah back but .... oh please don't let Jorah be what changes momentum.
newtypepilot
Member
pretty much. Cersei's whole speech is "say no to foreigners!" "make Westeros great again!!"
I always wondered how they would maintain interest now that they´ve spent six seasons building Daenerys as this unstoppable force;
Turns out they just have her fall on her sword for nothing. It's one thing to have her decide to keep most of her army in a castle in the middle of nowhere just because, she doesn't even tries to escort the little bits of her army that she does send to fight with her dragons? What's even the point of having dragons?
They had to take drastic measures to build up some suspense, but this is just ridiculous. Highgarden is the siege of arguably the second strongest army in westeros (an army that has not been waging constant wars for years like the lannisters,and doesn't have an entire kingdom to guard including King's Landing), and they take it in a stroll without even a siege?
Turns out they just have her fall on her sword for nothing. It's one thing to have her decide to keep most of her army in a castle in the middle of nowhere just because, she doesn't even tries to escort the little bits of her army that she does send to fight with her dragons? What's even the point of having dragons?
They had to take drastic measures to build up some suspense, but this is just ridiculous. Highgarden is the siege of arguably the second strongest army in westeros (an army that has not been waging constant wars for years like the lannisters,and doesn't have an entire kingdom to guard including King's Landing), and they take it in a stroll without even a siege?
This is basically it, in a bottle. It's written to be awesome as you're watching it but if you start thinking about internal logic it quickly falls apart. It wasn't like this until around Season 4.
They did explain that. The strength of the Tyrell forces came from guys like Randall Tarly who ended up defecting to the Lannisters.
Seductivpancakes
Member
Basically Lady Olenna is full of shit. Talking a big game when she couldn't back it up.
I miss the old Brandon Stark. This new Bran is weird as hell.. wtf was he blabbering about Sansas wedding to Ransey. She didn't need to hear all of that. The dude could have said a million other things to prove to her he has the ability to watch everything but he chose that moment. Dude sounding creepy as hell.
Sansa send his ass back to the north of the wall.
He is the three-eyed raven now and potentially already spent hours of hours seeing things that are way above the scope of Sansa, Jon or anything. I guess this changes your mind to a degree that even what Ramsay did to Sansa is nothing to what he already saw in his visions.
D&D wanted to end it this season with a full 10-ep season.
HBO wanted more seasons so they both met in the middle and got a shorter Season 7 and 8.
A happy coincidence is that fewer episodes means more budget to spread over them.
It's pretty much the same with all of Dani's allies. She still knows pretty much nothing about Westeros, but it's all on Tyrion and Varys really, why should they take words of Yara or the Sand Snakes at face value? One or both should be seen to be working both sides by now.
That's not an explanation. The Tyrell still had enough men to man their own castle at least, so unless the Lannisters had some kind of magical technology allowing them to walk through walls they had to lay siege to it.
The show is just riddled with inconsistencies now, at some point during the earlier seasons Daenerys was contemplating taking back the entire seven kingdoms with just her unsullied, and now you have Tyrion maing it like they would be lucky to take Castely Rock from a fraction of the Lannister army? Her brother though he had a good shot at taking back the kingdom with only one Dothraki clan, and now she ferried every single dothraki accross the sea just to have them sit in a castle?
bitbydeath
Gold Member
So the show is actually moving at a slower pace than even the showrunnerse imagined. Sort of nullifies the arguments about things moving 'too fast'.
Of course things are going to move quickly, this is the third act of the film. We've gone through the build up, and now it's the business end.
I don't know the figures, but when you take 5 minutes for a blowjob, 5 minutes for Greyworm/Missandei having sex, etc, and 2 minutes for the destruction of entire regions, there's a pacing problem and a common sense problem.
It is a fact though that they no longer have books to work from and essentially have a 'cliffnotes' summary of the rest of the story from George.
So very little material to work with.
Exactly.
The argument that they "didn't have enough time" throughout the series to give certain scenes their due has always been bunk.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Season 5 and season 6 really would have been better if they just had Danny cross the ocean at the end of S5 and had a major part of S6 be Danny trying to gather forces to take the capital with native people only, and have the start of season 7 be her grand plans failing and resorting to dragons.
They had time to set this up, they simply fucked around way, way too long across the other side of the world that nobody gives a shit about.
They had time to set this up, they simply fucked around way, way too long across the other side of the world that nobody gives a shit about.
It is a shame that we had 60 episodes building up to Dany's conquest and now there are only 13 episodes left across Season 7 and 8.
ColdDeckEd
Member
He will take 1 out for sure before drogon eats him.
The One Who Knocks
Member
All of this has been established and explained in the show. Whether you like these explanations is one thing, but it isn't something that's just been written off, they've directly confronted these questions this very season.
1) Yes, the defection does serve as a reason for a weakened Tyrell force. In addition, this very episode explained how the Tyrells were very firmly caught off-guard; the expectation was that the Lannister army would be defending Casterly Rock and King's Landing (as Lady Olena explains to Jamie in talking about Tyrion's strategy). A fight over Highgarden did occur, we see the aftermath. Why not show the fight? Well, that's a very valid question, but with seven episodes this season and six in the next the question which arises is if it's really a valuable use of the very limited time remaining to focus on what's ultimately a very minor battle compared to what's to come.
2) The expectation was that Castery Rock would be well-defended, and by being seen as an important symbol of the Lannister's power, it falling would be very symbolic and result in people losing confidence in Cersei's ability to defend them. What they did not expect was that it would only be lightly guarded and basically abandoned so that they could take the much more important (in terms of practical significance) Highgarden. Tyrion may be a very clever person, but his only experience of wartime strategy is his defence of Blackwater Bay, whereas everybody on Westeros has had years of experience. His plan was in theory clever, but did not really take into account Euron's domination of the seas (now how earned that is one can also question).
3) Because with the smaller army she would have been content forcibly taken King's Landing. The entire reason she's failing here is because she refuses to go for the most bloodthirsty approach and heed Olenna's advice. She doesn't want to unleash a Dothraki horde upon Westeros and have the citizens hate her (and justify the views as a foreign conquerer/invader), she wants them to be inspired by her and support her claim out of love. If she attacked King's Landing directly she would be in a much better position now. Her refusing to do that is what's crippled her forces.
Ocarina_117
Banned
How?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Also, it would be extremely disappointing if we literally go from the battle for the Iron Throne to directly the war with the White Walkers.
Part of the charm of the series is having unexpected things happen, and so far they are broadcasting all the major moves so far in advanced that I feel like we already know how this season ends two episodes in.
Danny will be forced to go nuclear to take the throne.
Throne will be a pile of ash.
All the major armies, besides the northern people will be in ruin.
Season ends with White Walkers invading.
If they just go from one threat to another in linear fashion, and don't experiment with how interesting it would be to have the White Walkers invade mid war, then any creative writing juices are gone imo.
Part of the charm of the series is having unexpected things happen, and so far they are broadcasting all the major moves so far in advanced that I feel like we already know how this season ends two episodes in.
Danny will be forced to go nuclear to take the throne.
Throne will be a pile of ash.
All the major armies, besides the northern people will be in ruin.
Season ends with White Walkers invading.
If they just go from one threat to another in linear fashion, and don't experiment with how interesting it would be to have the White Walkers invade mid war, then any creative writing juices are gone imo.
Euron will just shoot a Balastia while he's riding it, before it hits and kills the first dragon he jumps off manages to land on the second killing it with his axes then proceeds to...ect.
Dear Lord, it really wouldn't surprise me anymore xD
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Alternatively
i get the Euron hate, but seeing how last season ended, Cersei literally needed someone or something with huge plot-armor to even stand a chance against her enemies.
She was pretty much entirely out of allies at the end of last season, so i don't mind her having some successes to even the odds early-on.
What'll make me really mad if Cersei's silly ballistae are going to be set up as some kind of superweapon against the dragons.
She was pretty much entirely out of allies at the end of last season, so i don't mind her having some successes to even the odds early-on.
What'll make me really mad if Cersei's silly ballistae are going to be set up as some kind of superweapon against the dragons.
She should be sending emissaries out and travelling to convince everyone that she is better than Cersei, much like what Jon had to do last season to pull together the north. Show up with her dragons, but don't burn anyone.
Instead, holding up at Dragonstone lets Cersei dictate the narrative. It doesn't seem like they are sending out scouts either to gather intelligence. It shouldn't be hard to see where the Lannister's army's at. They are doing this ad hoc, which kinda make sense since that is how she operated and always fell back on using the dragons.
Dorne will also be completely fine, now that they are rid of their ruling house.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Like I said, they could have set up an entire season of evening the odds with Danny being handed defeats that chip away at her superior forces.
Also, I don't think it's that far off to have the idea that specialized ballistas weren't all that easy to mass produce 300 years ago during the initial conquest. With more modern and advanced processes, I can see a mass produced dragon killing ballista being a turning point that simply didn't exist 300 years ago.
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