-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
- Status
Did she keep those clowns alive who were cracking jokes about her in Dothraki? Would be hilarious if one of them is like the Essos version of Tywin in military strategy, and no one knew because he wasn't strong enough to be a Khal.
Tuturu Jones
Neo Member
That's not really a problem, they're horsemen with weapons specialized for cutting heads off. Breast plate doesn't really factor in.
That's the problem with the show now. They are going off the old mistake "show, don't tell". Why don't they "show, also tell"? Can't wait for the 30 for 30 on what's going on behind these scenes.
Vic_Viper
Member
Seems like Cersei just gained a huge upper hand this episode and now I'm kinda worried for Danny lol. I know she's going to win but it's not going to be as easy as it could have been had they not decided to Netflix and chill at Dragonstone. She has lost her naval fleet, the entire Tarley forces, 2 family heads, and her unsullied forces are pretty much fucked.
Where does she even go from here? Which armies are even left to be recruited? Aside from the North everyone else is either dead or across the ocean.
Where does she even go from here? Which armies are even left to be recruited? Aside from the North everyone else is either dead or across the ocean.
The faster pacing is not helping this season. We're having entire military campaigns resolved in one scene now. The seven episode season has not helped at all.
You can say "well we have to get to the important stuff" but what made GOT a great show in the past was the pace and detail, not rushing past everything.
Was it confirmed that the wall is magical? It makes more sense that it's holding the NK back through magic rather than being a physical barrier.
Also could lead to interesting things like after the magic is dispelled, the NK can use his necromancy throughout Westeros.
Would allow a dead dragon to come back as a Zombie
Also could lead to interesting things like after the magic is dispelled, the NK can use his necromancy throughout Westeros.
Would allow a dead dragon to come back as a Zombie
Of course I get that, Chekov's gun, set up and pay off etc. It's really plausible that it could happen, but saying it's obvious is being certain that it will happen. I was mostly wondering if there was some elements or pieces of dialogue I had missed that made it obvious, but it was mostly a general deduction.
LordKasual
Banned
It's not really needed man, we know what Euron is supposed to be really good at, and the show makes him look really good at it.
He's the embodiment of what Theon and Yara and everyone else kept describing as "Ironborn". He likely doesn't have to do anything to be a good captain other than be really good at killing, raping, fucking, pillaging.
It's way too coincidental, i'm pretty sure the writers did it on purpose.
And the interesting thing is that it isn't even completely off the table. After the door scene, almost nothing is off the table.
The One Who Knocks
Member
This is not isolated to this season at all. We never saw any of Robb's victories, they skipped past them entirely, yet accepted that he was a great military strategist.
In that scenario the only help she would have received from Westeros is Jorah, who was in disgrace and exile, so she would never have the kind of people around her she does now because they would all still be with Robert and Ned. No Barristan, Tyrion, Varys, no allies in Westeros, she'd just have the Dothraki horde and advice from Jorah to work with.
She might still try it but she would have failed. The whole situation might have been different - she might never even have taken the Unsullied or won the battles she did in Essos, and she'd certainly have learned less. Therefore, not really a credible threat, just a woman who thinks she has a birthright but no actual support.
So nah, he was right. At that time there was no pressing need to kill her.
I was like "Fuck ya!" when Dany said she was raped but overcame that with faith in herself, and then I remembered that she fell deeply in love with her rapist and was super sad about him dying. Rape is rape no matter what, but it kind of takes power away from that speech because the show really wanted us to like Drogo and Dany/Drogo as a couple.
That was fine, because it was a campaign that lasted for nearly three seasons. It was an ongoing thing. In this episode they just marched over to Highgarden and took it, in one scene. The richest kingdom in Westeros just falls, like that, so easily?
The Unsullied can still march back though. Unless a massive force is sent after them, they should be able to make it. Remember that they excel at open combat. Take food and supplies from the Rock and march back to home base. Her Dothraki forces are much larger than any arm in Westeros. Also, Prince Oberyn mentioned he had 8 daughters to Tyrion or Cersei, so there's still 4 girls left in Dorne. Maybe one of them turns into the Dornish Lady Mormont and does for Dany what the Lady of Bear Island did for Jon. The Dornish army is intact. If Dany can figure out the leadership there, that's still a kingdom that has never been conquered on her side.
If Robert were still king I don't think Danaerys would have reached this point.
The attempt on her life is what spurred Drogo to start marching towards Westeros, which eventually led to his death and the birth of the dragons. Had they never tried to assassinate her, most likely she would have just lived out her life as a Khaleesi out in the grasslands with Khal Drogo.
Tuturu Jones
Neo Member
Jaime mentions that they cleaned out Casterly Rock, so no supplies for the Unsullied to march back home. They're done for.
Martin has said he thinks Westeros is about the size of South America.
Yes I keep thinking they're just building Cersei up before the big fall, but I'm not having it anymore and I may start to panic if Dany takes one more major L. My Queen didn't come all this way to get played like this. BE A DRAGON, KHALEESI
Yeah that was a bit of a retcon. The show was different, a lot sleazier and exploitative of women back in the early seasons. She was raped by Drogo and later fell in deeply in love with him, but apparently she makes some kind of distinction between the two in her mind. They've been leaning in the other direction with their gender and sexual violence portrayals, I think, pretty much since the bad reaction to Ramsay raping Sansa in, I think, S5.
She could also have been talking about her brother Viserys - it was never shown, but he was certainlly sexually harassing her and it was implied he had done worse - 'you don't want to wake the dragon do you?', I think he said in episode 1. Then again, she named one of her dragons after him. Dany's fucked up.
Pagusas
Elden Member
I was kinda thinking that too, like... huh. But honestly rape is still rape, and i mean her brother was sexually molesting her too. But yeah, a weird speech given the context but also one where I think the point of it was to make you feel uncomfortable.
On a random note, I REALLY hate the outfit Jon wore. It just makes him look punny and weird.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Funny thing being Tyrion keeps fucking up but I doubt he'll actually admit his failures.
Seductivpancakes
Member
It does matter if they're a mass of heavily armored infantry, which is suicide to charge into with cavalry. If they had bows, they can pelt them with arrows till they break formation.
Lets not forget they an episode talking about how great a general Tarly is and in the last episode, combined with Jaime and Tywin's superbly trained and well equipped army, they're a serious fighting force, but we'll see.
Khal Drogo and many Dothraki weren't exited about invading Westeros. It was only after the assassination attempt on Dany did Khal Drogo promise revenge. Of course, he died soon after that anyways. But the timeline could have looked very differently if it wasn't for Robert trying to kill Dany. Khal Drogo and the rest of the Dothraki would have likely waited until Dany's son, "the stallion who would mount the world", was old enough to fight and conquer.
I guess it could also be argued that the assassination attempt had no effect one way or the other, but I would respond that Khal Drogo's oath was meaningful to Dany and his followers.
One Eyed Willy
Member
Yes because Highgarden is widely known to not be militarily strong and relied on alliances with the Lannister's. Easy win for the battle-hardened.
B
bomb
Unconfirmed Member
Can I get a head count on that Lannister Army? Didn't seem like enough to overtake a castle, especially that quickly.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
That Bran scene was hilarious. I was laughing the entire time. Arrested Development levels of funny. What the fuuuck, Bran. What was this scene supposed to even be about?
"What have you been up to, brother? Did you know you are the Lord now?!"
"I'm a three eyed raven"
"huh?!...whats that?...who?"
"I see everything, the three-eyed raven taught me."
"I thought you were the three-eyed raven?"
"I saw you get raped on your wedding night...You remember how beautiful you were. It was a beautiful night too, huh??"
"Fucking WHAT!?"
And then at the end she just leaves him there at the Tree by himself. LOL
You can almost hear Sansa whisper under her breath: "Good luck walking back, Bro."
"What have you been up to, brother? Did you know you are the Lord now?!"
"I'm a three eyed raven"
"huh?!...whats that?...who?"
"I see everything, the three-eyed raven taught me."
"I thought you were the three-eyed raven?"
"I saw you get raped on your wedding night...You remember how beautiful you were. It was a beautiful night too, huh??"
"Fucking WHAT!?"
And then at the end she just leaves him there at the Tree by himself. LOL
You can almost hear Sansa whisper under her breath: "Good luck walking back, Bro."
Such scenario has so many implications, that it's difficult to know for sure.
But I would say, that Ned was correct:
*If Robert was still allive, Sir Barristan wouldn't have deserted to Danny. So, she would have been killed by the kid.
*The events around Tyrion would have been different. Almost assuredly wouldn't met with her, either.
*Robert would likely have sent more assassins behind Ned's back anyway.
So, unless Danny fate was already sealed -no matter what- by the Gods, then she likely wouldn't have been a factor.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Well, first it was two seasons, but I'm not seeing how skipping over each individual battle for two seasons to establish his strength as a military general is entirely different to skipping over the battle of High Garden (which is a battle of a season long campaign by Daenerys *EDIT: I should clarify this, I don't mean the battle involved Daenerys herself, but that the season is clearly focused on Daenerys' campaign for Westeros and this is a battle which is fundamentally related to that*; obviously it's a more significant location, but it's not as significant a battle as the ones to come), when High Garden has never been portrayed as a particularly strong military strength in its own right (in contrast to the Lannister forces), when the forces of High Garden have been weakened by the betrayal of its lords due to Cersei's rhetoric in the first episode of the season, when the expectation was that the Lannisters would be split between King's Landing and Casterly Rock so there was no preparation for a siege to reach them, and when troops from High Garden were sent to lay siege to King's Landing. We see that a battle did take place when we see the aftermath, but the battle itself is not as important as the consequences it has for those involved.
That's...completely untrue? The Tyrells have a huge standing army. Hell you saw them in the show when they saved King's Landing in Season 2, and their alliance with the Lannisters is what won the Lannisters the war.
Yeah but sieges take a while no matter how shit you are. Easy wins against a castle still take a while. Unless Highgarden just fucking let them in it shouldn't have happened so fast. Didn't whatever the fuck was left of the Tullys hold out in Riverrun against a pretty formidable Lannister army for quite some time? Theon and whatever ragtag group he had held out in Winterfell against the Boltons, too. I know those are probably more fortified castles, but still it seems a bit weird. You can't exactly just tear through a castle no matter how shit your enemy is. Castles are fortresses and they were made for that sort of thing. You usually have to lay siege and wait unless you've got a secret entrance like the unsullied had in Casterly Rock.
It's still a castle. You don't just march in like that unless they let you. Is there any reason for Highgarden to just give up? I mean according to dialogue it doesn't seem like they gave up.
CecilRousso
Member
No, he just maybe shouldn't be everywhere and anywhere at all times.
Arya and Bran have become edgy as fuck, I hope they meet up and have a conversation.
Seductivpancakes
Member
By the way, are you guys taking info from the tv show source book? Does that count as spoilers?
DarkJediKnight
Member
I mean...it's a castle. It's kind of designed to withstand sieges from armies.
They literally just had a scene of Casterly Rock only falling because Tyrion knew of a secret way past the walls.
One Eyed Willy
Member
That army is heading down to King's Landing remember? Nobody was home, and Jamie knew it.
Team Dany is a leaky ship
Robdraggoo
Member
Yea, they didn't build this up for 6 seasons just to have her fall on her face, she still probably wins, but they will be consequences I feel. House of undying vision most likely.
I just dont know if it will be danny or cersei who fucks shit up in kings landing.
I always forget at the start of a new season just how far the show has plummeted since Season 4. It used to be that characters decisions drove the plot. Now, the plot drives characters decisions. Euron was introduced at the tail end of last season and is just wiping the board in ridiculously illogical fashion because the story needs him to.
Tyrion was literally the Master of Coin in S2/S3. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't be aware of the dire straits the Lannisters were in with money. He should have known that Casterly Rock would mean very little at this stage. Even if he somehow didn't - he was definitely aware that the Greyjoys had aligned with Cersei. Pyke isn't very far from Casterly Rock. The idea that Tyrion would fail to anticipate an attack from them there is mindboggling. They're making him uncharacteristically stupid in order to delay Daenerys inevitably laying waste to King's Landing with her dragons. I still love the idea that refraining from using them to sack King's Landing is somehow more kind to the people than laying siege to the city would be. That's such a reach it's downright hilarious.
Then you have the Lannisters attacking Highgarden. How does this make any sense? So Jaime marched most of the Lannister forces out of King's Landing and to the South when they know Dany is sitting there with her dragons ready to attack? Unless they have some extremely effective spies it would be madness to leave the capital less than fully defended. And then you have to wonder...what the fuck are Varys' spies doing? How is he getting no intel on Lannister plans? I almost wouldn't be surprised at this point if the show reveals Varys as a spy to justify all of this, despite it making no sense whatsoever.
It's all so contrived and disappointing.
Tyrion was literally the Master of Coin in S2/S3. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't be aware of the dire straits the Lannisters were in with money. He should have known that Casterly Rock would mean very little at this stage. Even if he somehow didn't - he was definitely aware that the Greyjoys had aligned with Cersei. Pyke isn't very far from Casterly Rock. The idea that Tyrion would fail to anticipate an attack from them there is mindboggling. They're making him uncharacteristically stupid in order to delay Daenerys inevitably laying waste to King's Landing with her dragons. I still love the idea that refraining from using them to sack King's Landing is somehow more kind to the people than laying siege to the city would be. That's such a reach it's downright hilarious.
Then you have the Lannisters attacking Highgarden. How does this make any sense? So Jaime marched most of the Lannister forces out of King's Landing and to the South when they know Dany is sitting there with her dragons ready to attack? Unless they have some extremely effective spies it would be madness to leave the capital less than fully defended. And then you have to wonder...what the fuck are Varys' spies doing? How is he getting no intel on Lannister plans? I almost wouldn't be surprised at this point if the show reveals Varys as a spy to justify all of this, despite it making no sense whatsoever.
It's all so contrived and disappointing.
Atomic Playboy
Member
They won't need to wait long. Jaime mentioned emptying all the food stores, so the Unsullied are sitting in an empty building with no food and no means of retreat. Sure, they can stay in there for a while, but they're going to get hungry at some point, right?
I'm just talking about why there seemed to be few soldiers defending the castle. I'm not talking about the defense of the castle itself.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Dragon Ex Machina?
One Eyed Willy
Member
This will probably happen
- Status