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[The Artisan]

lol there's no way.

people love when this show subverts expectations.

 

[Atomic Odin]

do you need dragon glass to kill the wights? I reckon I remember jon thinks its fire to kill them. and you can injure them but they will resurrect if they are not burned.

I don't think we have seen anyone use it to strike at the wights. Meera and Sam both used it on WW generals and Jon obviously wasn't able to use it in the battle at hardhome.

Even when Jon & co got Tyrion's message this season, Davos only talked about how fire burns them. I suppose its still up in the air until someone tries.

 

[Heshinsi]

That skin could heal. Aside from that though, what do you have against him? she'd be long dead if it wasn't for him. She wouldn't have made it past the first couple seasons if he didn't have a boner for her. First because he would have let her get poisoned, second, because he probably would have done it himself, not to mention the countless of other times he advised her and killed for her.

He's old enough to be her dad man. Great, he fucking did his sworn duties. Should he be awarded with her hand? No. Jorah is one of the most consistent and trustworthy member of her team. But the girl has already said no. Jorah can love her, but he knows they'll never be anything beyond a platonic love from her. She loves and cares for him immensely.

 

[ComputerBlue]

people love when this show subverts expectations.

I rather neither of them to be honest but I'd be far more interested in a Dany and Jorah romance than a Jon and Dany, because at least it wouldn't be something that plays out like fanfiction....But this one seems like it would be 100% pointless from Dany's perspective other than throwing Jorah a pity fuck.

He's old enough to be her dad man. Great, he fucking did his sworn duties. Should he be awarded with her hand? No. Jorah is one of the most consistent and trustworthy member of her team. But the girl has already said no. Jorah can love her, but he knows they'll never be anything beyond a platonic love from her. She loves and cares for him immensely.

So what, such shit happens in real life all the time. Patrick Stewart is 77, married to a 38 year old.

I'm not saying it should happen, but shit, you're acting like he can go fuck himself. Dude has done more for her than any one else that she's rolled with over the years. By far.

 

[The Artisan]

I rather neither of them to be honest but I'd be far more interested in a Dany and Jorah romance than a Jon and Dany, because at least it wouldn't be something that plays out like fanfiction....But this one seems like it would be 100% pointless from Dany's perspective other than throwing Jorah a pity fuck.

if this plays out as fanfiction then the whole story dances on fanfiction, then. Like, there have been so many parallels between these 2 characters that it seems off putting to not keep the two of them together.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

There's like zero connection between the two. She only felt bad for him when he was dying of greyscale.

 

[Heshinsi]

I rather neither of them to be honest but I'd be far more interested in a Dany and Jorah romance than a Jon and Dany, because at least it wouldn't be something that plays out like fanfiction....But this one seems like it would be 100% pointless from Dany's perspective other than throwing Jorah a pity fuck.

It ain't fanfiction when it's destiny that as Mel said, "brought fire and ice together." The universe wants this to happen, don't fight it.

So what, such shit happens in real life all the time. Patrick Stewart is 77, married to a 38 year old.

I'm not saying it should happen, but shit, you're acting like he can go fuck himself. Dude has done more for her than any one else that she's rolled with over the years. By far.

Oh don't get me wrong, I absolutely like Jorah. But he's already been told no. He should find someone else to fall in love with.

 

[ComputerBlue]

if this plays out as fanfiction then the whole story dances on fanfiction, then. Like, there have been so many parallels between these 2 characters that it seems off putting to not keep the two of them together.

They're both fanfiction...Both stupid and ridiculous.

Really, I don't want her to end up with anyone, I think her thread would be a good one to end without a pointless romance, at this point...what's the point?

 

[The Artisan]

They're both fanfiction...

Really, I don't want her to end up with anyone, I think her thread would be a good one to end without a pointless romance, at this point...what's the point?

both of their first loves died a pretty tragic death, and they both had a role to play in their deaths. other than their first loves, the 2 of them haven't ever loved again since.

 

[Einchy]

There's like zero connection between the two. She only felt bad for him when he was dying of greyscale.

whaaaat

Nah, man, she was really heartbroken when she found out he was spying on her. She would've normally had him killed but she cared about him so much that instead she sent him away and finally forgave him after she found out she was dying. Their connection is really deep, and it's made even more apparent from how sad she was when she found out he had Greyscale. You compare that scene to her telling Daario she had to leave and it's night and day, Daara was "with" her and she didn't give a single fuck but with Jorah? She gave all the fucks.

 

[B-Dubs]

people love when this show subverts expectations.

It only really does that if you don't realize the rules the plot plays by though.

Take your average fantasy story plot points. Apply them normally to the Jon and Dany's plot lines. Everything concerning those two plot arcs is played as it normally would for any other series. Now, you apply them inversely with everything concerning the Iron Throne. So if the good guy would normally win a fight, you have him lose it and lose it bloody.

So long as you follow both of those basic rules you can predict almost every single twist in the series, from the Red Wedding to Jon's revival. Maybe not the full extent of the twist, but you can easily tell they're coming and what general shape they'll take.

Honestly, this is probably why GRRM is having such a hard time with the final books. After Jon and Dany join the main plot line and everything starts to converge around them you lose the things that made Game of Thrones what it is.

 

[ComputerBlue]

both of their first loves died a pretty tragic death, and they both had a role to play in their deaths. other than their first loves, the 2 of them haven't ever loved again since.

So, what would be the point?

We're in end game now. So focus on that. What is the point.

 

[Heshinsi]

They're both fanfiction...Both stupid and ridiculous.

Really, I don't want her to end up with anyone, I think her thread would be a good one to end without a pointless romance, at this point...what's the point?

The old Khaleesi lady in the first season stated that Dany's child will be the stallion that mounts the world. What if like Mel's prophecies, old Khaleesi got the vision/prophecy wrong, and it wasn't that child that was the one destined to accomplish that? Dany states to Daario at the end of the last season, that she needs to make herself available for marriage to secure alliances. She can't marry Jorah to do that, so that leaves Jon as the only viable marriage option. Six seasons worth of plot lines, and I need to see this come to fruition.

 

[ComputerBlue]

It only really does that if you don't realize the rules the plot plays by though.

Take your average fantasy story plot points. Apply them normally to the Jon and Dany's plot lines. Everything concerning those two plot arcs is played as it normally would for any other series. Now, you apply them inversely with everything concerning the Iron Throne. So if the good guy would normally win a fight, you have him lose it and lose it bloody.

So long as you follow both of those basic rules you can predict almost every single twist in the series, from the Red Wedding to Jon's revival. Maybe not the full extent of the twist, but you can easily tell they're coming and what general shape they'll take.

Honestly, this is probably why GRRM is having such a hard time with the final books. After Jon and Dany join the main plot line and everything starts to converge around them you lose the things that made Game of Thrones what it is.

The above is a perfect example of why Jon and Dany ending up together is a shit outcome.

The old Khaleesi lady in the first season stated that Dany's child will be the stallion that mounts the world. What if like Mel's prophecies, old Khaleesi got the vision/prophecy wrong, and it wasn't that child that was the one destined to accomplish that? Dany states to Daario at the end of the last season, that she needs to make herself available for marriage to secure alliances. She can't marry Jorah to do that, so that leaves Jon as the only viable marriage option.

She doesn't need to marry Jon though, there doesn't need to be a romance between them. That plays out like a fairytale, this ain't Shrek.

 

[The Artisan]

It only really does that if you don't realize the rules the plot plays by though.

Take your average fantasy story plot points. Apply them normally to the Jon and Dany's plot lines. Everything concerning those two plot arcs is played as it normally would for any other series. Now, you apply them inversely with everything concerning the Iron Throne. So if the good guy would normally win a fight, you have him lose it and lose it bloody.

So long as you follow both of those basic rules you can predict almost every single twist in the series, from the Red Wedding to Jon's revival. Maybe not the full extent of the twist, but you can easily tell they're coming and what general shape they'll take.

Honestly, this is probably why GRRM is having such a hard time with the final books. After Jon and Dany join the main plot line and everything starts to converge around them you lose the things that made Game of Thrones what it is.

That's what's made this show for a sometimes frustrating yet very entertaining story. At this point now though I think it's fine for them to do more straightforward storytelling. having twists just for the sake of having them doesn't make the story better in my opinion. like, yeah a lot of unbelievable things have happened as the story progress but I want to believe that Jon x Dany will become a reality in its full potential.

So, what would be the point?

We're in end game now. So focus on that. What is the point.

you're right, we're in the end game. what would be the point? for me personally like I said, this is now as much a love story as it is a song of ice and fire and a game of thrones.

 

[The Artisan]

The old Khaleesi lady in the first season stated that Dany's child will be the stallion that mounts the world. What if like Mel's prophecies, old Khaleesi got the vision/prophecy wrong, and it wasn't that child that was the one destined to accomplish that? Dany states to Daario at the end of the last season, that she needs to make herself available for marriage to secure alliances. She can't marry Jorah to do that, so that leaves Jon as the only viable marriage option. Six seasons worth of plot lines, and I need to see this come to fruition.

and yet throughout the entire the first episode of them together, never once does she think to herself, "ok i knew on my way here that a new marriage would have to be a possibility, so, maybe marrying this stubborn bastard is what I need?"

edit: sorry for double post

 

[Heshinsi]

The above is a perfect example of why Jon and Dany ending up together is a shit outcome.



She doesn't need to marry Jon though, there doesn't need to be a romance between them. That plays out like a fairytale, this ain't Shrek.

Well I mean in Shrek, Fiona stays an ogre even when she gets the opportunity to change back to a human. Then later, Shrek gives up his wish to be human so that he stays true to himself. Not at all what I'd expect from fairytales.

and yet throughout the entire the first episode of them together, never once does she think to herself, "ok i knew on my way here that a new marriage would have to be a possibility, so, maybe marrying this stubborn bastard is what I need?"

edit: sorry for double post

You're already thinking about marrying people the first time you meet them? lol

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

On the topic of Jorah:

I was thinking that of all the kingdoms, only the King of the Friendzone might get a friendly nod from the Night's King, one patient man to another.
At least we know he's a legit King of something, unlike everybody else in this show.

 

[PatjuhR]

Not even gonna bother skimming through this thread until next ep, but I hope somewhere out there is a theonabandonship.gif

I can confirm this, it turns out to be very appropriate for this thread aswell.

Looking forward to my boy Jorah reuniting with Dany. Him and Jon will also work out nice.

 

[B-Dubs]

The above is a perfect example of why Jon and Dany ending up together is a shit outcome.

It's what the series is though. These two characters were always the ones being played straight. I mean, you could change the rules on them, but it would feel awkward and I guarantee you'd hate it even more than the arc the story is currently taking.

That's what's made this show for a sometimes frustrating yet very entertaining story. At this point now though I think it's fine for them to do more straightforward storytelling. having twists just for the sake of having them doesn't make the story better in my opinion. like, yeah a lot of unbelievable things have happened as the story progress but I want to believe that Jon x Dany will become a reality in its full potential

I'm not saying twists for the sake of twists, but that it's just a mirror image of the standard plot points. But yea, at this point in the story their only choice is to play it straight because changing the rules at this point in the game would be worse.

Well I mean in Shrek, Fiona stays an ogre even when she gets the opportunity to change back to a human. Then later, Shrek gives up his wish to be human so that he stays true to himself. Not at all what I'd expect from fairytales.

Maybe not from fairytales, but from a fantasy story? That's totally what I'd expect from a fantasy story. Well, maybe not the outcome of the first Shrek movie. That had a pretty good twist, the second was just the same twist in reverse.

 

[zsynqx]

The MP4 was freely available on their servers. What a fuckup.

Star India appears to have leaked the episode online through its own website. Smartprix spotted a direct link to the MP4 of the episode over at Star India’s own distribution site, allowing people to download Game of Thrones freely before sharing it with Google Drive links on Reddit.

 

[The Artisan]

You're already thinking about marrying people the first time you meet them? lol

hell, Dany was thinkin bout it long before she sailed west. And she knew it'd be first and foremost for political gain, too.

 

[Einchy]

The MP4 was freely available on their servers. What a fuckup.

 

[Heshinsi]

hell, Dany was thinkin bout it long before she said west. And she knew it'd be first and foremost for political gain, too.

Yes she was thinking about a marriage, but not who the suitor would be. You don't play the courtship game of off the first meet up. First meeting was about business and getting a feel for one another. It's like you've sat down to watch a romantic film and you want the credits to start rolling 10 minutes into it.

 

[Speevy]

Is this thread being protected by Euron's fleet?

BURN THE MALL

 

[Seductivpancakes]

whaaaat

Nah, man, she was really heartbroken when she found out he was spying on her. She would've normally had him killed but she cared about him so much that instead she sent him away and finally forgave him after she found out she was dying. Their connection is really deep, and it's made even more apparent from how sad she was when she found out he had Greyscale. You compare that scene to her telling Daario she had to leave and it's night and day, Daara was "with" her and she didn't give a single fuck but with Jorah? She gave all the fucks.

I should be more specific, the only deep feeling she has for him is a friend. Maybe even mentor, which is why she would feel be hurt over betrayal, and and sadness over death, but there is like no love connection between the two.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Well I mean in Shrek, Fiona stays an ogre even when she gets the opportunity to change back to a human. Then later, Shrek gives up his wish to be human so that he stays true to himself. Not at all what I'd expect from fairytales.

It is actually, because the two you expect to end up together, end up together. It's exactly what you'd expect.

It's what the series is though. These two characters were always the ones being played straight. I mean, you could change the rules on them, but it would feel awkward and I guarantee you'd hate it even more than the arc the story is currently taking.

There is no reason for them to end up together. Nothing from a plot perspective, so no I wouldn't hate it if they didn't end up together.

 

[B-Dubs]

It is actually, because the two you expect to end up together, end up together. It's exactly what you'd expect.

I mean, the twist in Shrek was that they were both ogres at the end of the movie. Outside of that, yea, it's exactly what you'd expect.

 

[zsynqx]

Lol sorry, I'll stop talking about the leak.

 

[Speevy]

Would you expect this?

 

[ComputerBlue]

I mean, the twist in Shrek was that they were both ogres at the end of the movie. Outside of that, yea, it's exactly what you'd expect.

Right and the twist here would be that they are Aunt and Nephew...but so what, they'd end up together just the same as one would expect because he's the shrek of the story and she's the fiona. Aladdin and Jasmine etc etc.

 

[SargerusBR]

Would you expect this?

Jon X Sansa makes more sense than that.

 

[Hydrus]

I have a question about leaked episodes in the past (like the big leak from a few years ago): Did the leaked episodes end up being exactly the same as the official releases or were the officially released episodes changed a bit? **NO TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT SEASON!!!**

 

[Heshinsi]

It is actually, because the two you expect to end up together, end up together. It's exactly what you'd expect.

Like what's wrong with that?

It's the modern day version of this story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNiPiMh33Mw

Came from the east? Check.
Had a shit load of foreigners with her? Check.
Married a Westerosi King, solidified a union, and proceeded to wreck shit? Check.

It happened before, why can't it happen again? I bet if this was story about the Rhynor fleeing Essos, and we were just at the part where Nymeria and her people landed in Dorne, you'd be like "I don't see why she has to marry the Martell guy, there's no plot reason for it. This story is a different type of fantasy."

 

[B-Dubs]

There is no reason for them to end up together. Nothing from a plot perspective, so no I wouldn't hate it if they didn't end up together.

I don't mean them just not ending up together. Playing this straight means they'll eventually team up to take on the White Walkers because that's what happens in fantasy stories. The inverse would have been Dany burning Jon to death when he didn't bend the knee (or just kicking him out) and getting bulldozed by Cersei, Jamie, and Euron.

If Dany and Jon's plot lines weren't played straight the series would probably end with the White Walkers extinguishing all life on Westeros as Cersei tries desperately to hang onto her throne.

Right and the twist here would be that they are Aunt and Nephew...but so what, they'd end up together just the same as one would expect because he's the shrek of the story and she's the fiona. Aladdin and Jasmine etc etc.

I mean, Jon probably dies at the end since he seems to be the classic tragic hero, but yea. They wind up together because that's how these stories work.

The plotlines for both of these characters are played straight in regards to basic fantasy tropes because applying the logic of the Iron Throne plotline would literally break the story and result in a bad end.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Like what's wrong with that?

It's the most common ending to a story that's why.

If Dany and Jon's plot lines weren't played straight the series would probably end with the White Walkers extinguishing all life on Westeros as Cersei tries desperately to hang onto her throne.

I've got no issue with this, no issue with them teaming up to fight in the end. Them ending up in a romance, or a marriage has no business in this story at this point.

 

[chicko1983]

I have a question about leaked episodes in the past (like the big leak from a few years ago): Did the leaked episodes end up being exactly the same as the official releases or were the officially released episodes changed a bit? **NO TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT SEASON!!!**

I PM'd you a message.

 

[B-Dubs]

It's the most common ending to a story that's why.

That's not a bad thing though. It always comes down to execution. If done well it'll be great, if not it'll suck.

 

[The Artisan]

Yes she was thinking about a marriage, but not who the suitor would be. You don't play the courtship game of off the first meet up. First meeting was about business and getting a feel for one another. It's like you've sat down to watch a romantic film and you want the credits to start rolling 10 minutes into it.

I don't think Dany ever planned to fall in love again. I think she only even mentioned marriage because she knows she needs help to get more power.

Would you expect this?

It is actually, because the two you expect to end up together, end up together. It's exactly what you'd expect.

Jon x Dany isn't just what I expected though, it's what I wanted.

There is no reason for them to end up together. Nothing from a plot perspective, so no I wouldn't hate it if they didn't end up together.

There is if you look at it as a love story - I'm not saying you have to. I'm just saying it can be a love story, too.

 

[chicko1983]

It's the most common ending to a story that's why.

people like those endings when they are done well, thats why it is common.

 

[Heshinsi]

It's the most common ending to a story that's why.

And GoT having twists after twists has become a trope in of itself. Just give me my happy ending after the shit I've had to deal with lol. Ned, Red Wedding, Oberyn, etc. And now you have Euron sailing around the map like a sea Santa, that's handing out twists left and right. This twist nonsense has now become the norm.

 

[The Artisan]

It's the most common ending to a story that's why.



I've got no issue with this, no issue with them teaming up to fight in the end. Them ending up in a romance, or a marriage has no business in this story at this point.

GRRM said that the story will end LOTR-style bittersweet so we shouldn't expect something OD horrible anyway.

 

[ComputerBlue]

That's not a bad thing though. It always comes down to execution. If done well it'll be great, if not it'll suck.

people like those endings when they are done well, thats why it is common.

I'm aware as to why it's common but this show isn't, and it hasn't been since the first episode when we seen a little boy get tossed from a tower for catching a brother and sister fuck.

 

[Heshinsi]

I'm aware as to why it's common but this show isn't, and it hasn't been since the first episode when we seen a little boy get tossed from a tower for catching a brother and sister fuck.

That was telegraphed a mile away though.

 

[Einchy]

Wait, if GoT is so un-cliche then wouldn't a cliche ending be un-cliche? :thinking:

 

[The Artisan]

I'm not saying twists for the sake of twists, but that it's just a mirror image of the standard plot points. But yea, at this point in the story their only choice is to play it straight because changing the rules at this point in the game would be worse.

what do you mean by this?

 

[ComputerBlue]

And GoT having twists after twists has become a trope in of itself. Just give me my happy ending after the shit I've had to deal with lol. Ned, Red Wedding, Oberyn, etc. And now you have Euron sailing around the map like a sea Santa, that's handing out twists left and right. This twist nonsense has now become the norm.

Euron story line can fuck off already, lol

But yeah, I get it, too much of the twists get tiring and it's nice to see Bran and Sansa reunite after so many times when Starks were so close to reuniting but didn't.

But that doesn't mean there hasn't been plenty of obvious stuff happen in the show, because there has, you just don't notice it because it's what you;d expect.

GRRM said that the story will end LOTR-style bittersweet so we shouldn't expect something OD horrible anyway.

I hope we get like 5 endings like LOTR as well.

That was telegraphed a mile away though.

Please.

 

[B-Dubs]

I'm aware as to why it's common but this show isn't, and it hasn't been since the first episode when we seen a little boy get tossed from a tower for catching a brother and sister fuck.

I mean, like I said, despite the fact the King's Landing and game of thrones stuff has been the inverse of the standard tropes, Jon and Dany have been played extremely straight since literally the beginning of the show. To expect that to change at this point in the story, well it's not something you should ever expect because those are the rules the world is run by.

what do you mean by this?

What I mean is you can predict pretty much every major twist in the show because it plays by two hard and fast rules:

1. Jon and Dany's plot lines are played straight in regards to how they develop (they develop exactly as you would expect the average fantasy story to develop them)
2. plot points concerning the various lords of Westeros as they struggle for the Iron Throne are played inversely in regards to the standard fantasy trope (so if in the standard fantasy story Obyrn Martell beats The Mountain and gets his revenge, in GoT you do the opposite and have The Mountain crush his head at the last second)

Basically for Jon and Dany you do what's expected out of a standard fantasy story, and for the game of thrones you do the opposite.

 

[The Artisan]

But that doesn't mean there hasn't been plenty of obvious stuff happen in the show, because there has, you just don't notice it because it's what you;d expect.

The only "obvious/hero saves the day/happy ending" shit that came across for me, as a non-book reader, was last season when Ramsay Bolton was finally defeated. The purer moral characters suffered practically the whole show up until then when finally the good guys won for once.

With the show almost over and what these relatively good, benign people went through I'd like to see them prevail a little more because it feels goo to watch.

I hope we get like 5 endings like LOTR as well.

5 endings?

 

[ComputerBlue]

I mean, like I said, despite the fact the King's Landing and game of thrones stuff has been the inverse of the standard tropes, Jon and Dany have been played extremely straight since literally the beginning of the show. To expect that to change at this point in the story, well it's not something you should ever expect because those are the rules the world is run by.

I get that, but Jon dying and coming back played a role in the story. It didn't happen just to shock the viewers. It was obvious he was coming back but it didn't happen just for the sake of it happening, he needed to die because he wouldn't have left the Black otherwise. It was the only way to end his oath.

Jon and Dany ending up together in a physical, loving relationship won't serve a purpose this late in the show. Would it?

5 endings?

Exaggeration, but I want it to have a thorough ending.