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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT| Season 7 - [Read the OP]

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T

talkingood

Member
Kayhan said:
How long did it take Jon and Davos to draw all those doodles on the cave walls?
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Hahaha, my wife made this same joke. We were like man, these drawings are awfully relevant to the plot...

Jon: "And over here we see the Queen of Dragons totally smooching with the King of the North... something to think about..."
 
T

The Artisan

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
Agreed. I'm not a big fan of Dany whipping out that quote, not only because it seems silly for her to use the same exact quote, but because the situation is different. And you're supposed to be focusing on Jon in that moment, and what is going on in his brain...but all I'm left thinking is "DROP IT WITH THE DROP THE KNEE SHIT ALREADY!" She is just a broken record at this point.
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Yes she is! That scene was going so great and the bend the knee line totally killed the mood. Come on...
 
R

RDreamer

Member
B-Dubs said:
Bronn has Evade +2 from his gear, so he has more invulnerable frames than usual when he dodges.
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That's gotta be it. I mean look at this:

giphy.gif


He's like 3 feet form the wheels of the siege weapon. Someone explain this.
 
L

Loxley

Member
I went back and watched the two trailers for Season 7 again to see if there was anything left that hadn't been shown yet. There's actually quite a bit in the second trailer. I'd completely forgotten about
all of those awesome shots showing John, Tormund, and Beric/The Brotherhood fighting off a legion of Whitewalkers. I'm wondering if that will be the big climax for the season.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Speely said:
I actually wanted Jon to bend the knee right then JUST because it's in his character. He already died once doing something that the North hated but was good for them. Whynotboth.gif?
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They're at an impasse that I can sympathise with. He feels that bending the knee to her would be betraying the trust the Northerners placed upon his shoulders when they chose him as their king.

However, and I think people don't factor this, she too is in a similar position. The people who follow her - the Dothraki, Unsullied, her advisors, the allies she's made - all believe that what they're trying to accomplish is to unseat Cersei from the Iron Throne. To tell them that on the words of this Northern man that she's only just met, she wants her armies to go to the North and fight there against an enemy they know nothing about, is a really hard sale for them to stomach. To request that of them and for her to not seek anything in return, would be ludicrous. Jon may never bend the knee, but her asking for it is not something that should be strange. He wants her to send her armies to fight and die for something many of them have just now only heard of, and he doesn't expect her to want something in return? She may believe him, but what do the Dothraki and Unsullied know about Nights King and the Undead. Essentially Jon is asking her if they could use her armies as cannon fodder and his people won't accept him bending the knee to her, but her people should accept coming to fight for something they never signed up for. "You said you want us to fight Cersei, now you're telling us we're not going to do that but instead go and fight zombies? Well what are you getting in return? Nothing? Did he even promise to fight Cersei if we win in the North? No?! You negotiate like Catlyn Stark you know?"

Hey but, popping a ring on that finger solves this problem quick though doesn't it? The Dothraki and Unsullied won't be going into war fighting at the request of some Northern King; their own King would be leading them and they'd be fighting for him. And the reverse would be true for the Northmen.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
The Artisan said:
I think when she finds out he's not only a Targaryen but Rhaegar's son she's gonna get turned on even more.

She's never known Rhaegar but is convinced that he was a good man and if she is with her brother's son she's going to feel so happy inside that a piece of her brother is still on the earth and she's never gonna wanna leave his sight after that. An aunt, and a lover. In a song of ice and fire that's quite an ultimate love but on our planet earth it would be so, so wrong...
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The only problem there is that as Rhaegar's son, Jon would have the better claim. She would have to bend the knee.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
Heshinsi said:
They're at an impasse that I can sympathise with. He feels that bending the knee to her would be betraying the trust the Northerners placed upon his shoulders when they chose him as their king.

However, and I think people don't factor this, she too is in a similar position. The people who follow her - the Dothraki, Unsullied, her advisors, the allies she's made - all believe that what they're trying to accomplish is to unseat Cersei from the Iron Throne. To tell them that on the words of this Northern man that she's only just met, she wants her armies to go to the North and fight there against an enemy they know nothing about, is a really hard sale for them to stomach. To request that of them and for her to not seek anything in return, would be ludicrous. Jon may never bend the knee, but her asking for it is not something that should be strange. He wants her to send her armies to fight and die for something many of them have just now only heard of, and he doesn't expect her to want something in return?

Hey but, popping a ring on that finger solves this problem quick though doesn't it? The Dothraki and Unsullied won't be going into war fighting at the request of some Northern King; their own King would be leading them and they'd be fighting for him. And the reverse would be true for the Northmen.
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Yes and I am wondering why neither Tyrion, Davos, nor even Missandei have thought to bring this up to their graces.

However, Dany's army will do whatever their queen wishes for them to do. They don't need a reason to go north other than Dany orders them to help Jon Snow. But fuck it, they should get married anyway.
IggyChooChoo said:
The only problem there is that as Rhaegar's son, Jon would have the better claim. She would have to bend the knee.
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Nah, she would want to marry him...
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Heshinsi said:
They're at an impasse that I can sympathise with. He feels that bending the knee to her would be betraying the trust the Northerners placed upon his shoulders when they chose him as their king.

However, and I think people don't factor this, she too is in a similar position. The people who follow her - the Dothraki, Unsullied, her advisors, the allies she's made - all believe that what they're trying to accomplish is to unseat Cersei from the Iron Throne. To tell them that on the words of this Northern man that she's only just met, she wants her armies to go to the North and fight there against an enemy they know nothing about, is a really hard sale for them to stomach. To request that of them and for her to not seek anything in return, would be ludicrous. Jon may never bend the knee, but her asking for it is not something that should be strange. He wants her to send her armies to fight and die for something many of them have just now only heard of, and he doesn't expect her to want something in return?

Hey but, popping a ring on that finger solves this problem quick though doesn't it? The Dothraki and Unsullied won't be going into war fighting at the request of some Northern King; their own King would be leading them and they'd be fighting for him. And the reverse would be true for the Northmen.
Click to expand...

Eh, killing white walkers and shit is just as foreign to them as killing Cersei. I would have to believe they'd probably think killing white walkers is more important than some random ass foreign leader they'd never heard of nor cared about. The Dothraki view her as some sort of goddess. I don't think they'd give a shit. The Unsullied want to be free and obviously if this existential force is coming down south that's kind of in the way of that.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Loxley said:
I went back and watched the two trailers for Season 7 again to see if there was anything left that hadn't been shown yet. There's actually quite a bit in the second trailer. I'd completely forgotten about
all of those awesome shots showing John, Tormund, and Beric/The Brotherhood fighting off a legion of Whitewalkers. I'm wondering if that will be the big climax for the season.
Click to expand...
I think
that will be end of the next episode into episode 6.

Related promo talk:
The next episode promo shows scenes from that, but I think that sequence is too big to leave for the last 15-20 minutes. So they'll probably use that as a cliffhanger and then have a huge battle in 6
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
RDreamer said:
Eh, killing white walkers and shit is just as foreign to them as killing Cersei. I would have to believe they'd probably think killing white walkers is more important than some random ass foreign leader they'd never heard of nor cared about. The Dothraki view her as some sort of goddess. I don't think they'd give a shit. The Unsullied want to be free and obviously if this existential force is coming down south that's kind of in the way of that.
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Ned Stark himself - a northern man - did not believe that the White Walkers were seen by the ranger he executed. Why would people in Essos be so willing to accept something that they haven't even heard of in their lives? White Walkers might as well be, "some fucking hill people these Northerners can't seem to contain, and now want us to go fucking die helping them fight their boogeymen."
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Heshinsi said:
Ned Stark himself - a northern man - did not believe that the White Walkers were seen by the ranger he executed. Why would people in Essos be so willing to accept something that they haven't even heard of in their lives? White Walkers might as well be, "some fucking hill people these Northerners can't seem to contain, and now want us to go fucking die helping them."
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I feel like the Dothraki/Unsullied would be more willing to go wherever the fuck Dany wants them to than the North would be to actually follow Jon and/or believe in White Walkers. How do I know? Because the Dothraki literally crossed the sea and are on a foreign land already.

They're with her because they believe in her and what she stands for. The dothraki in particular have seen her do crazy shit and think of her as some sort of Goddess. They're not really going to question it.

Ned Stark didn't hear about white walkers from a woman that should have been burned to death and has 3 dragons with her.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
RDreamer said:
I feel like the Dothraki/Unsullied would be more willing to go wherever the fuck Dany wants them to than the North would be to actually follow Jon and/or believe in White Walkers. How do I know? Because the Dothraki literally crossed the sea and are on a foreign land already.

They're with her because they believe in her and what she stands for. The dothraki in particular have seen her do crazy shit and think of her as some sort of Goddess. They're not really going to question it.
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I agree. I always felt like although Ned Stark was a good guy, his head getting chopped off was a karma for what he did to the deserter in season 1.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Question for you guys now based on the preview.

What the Lords of the Reach who betrayed and broke faith with House Tyrell did, is essentially a grievous breaking of their oaths. In season one when Robb tells Maestor Lumin to summon the bannermen, and Maestor Lumin asks if he wants all of them summoned, Robb says something to the effect of "they all swore to defend my father right?!" Randall Tarly and the Lords of the Reach who followed him, were oath bound to protect, defend, and if necessary, avenge Mace Tyrell. So when Dany says, "bend the knee and join me, refuse or die" I think she's being way too generous about what they actually did. I get that she wants to give them a chance, but how can she trust people like that?
 
D

duckroll

Member
Fenderputty said:
He was bound by oath not to run. That's not something Ned would ever do. Ned's downfall was honor, not karma. Very few face karmatic revenge in game of thrones.
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That was true until season 6, where everyone seemed to die karmatic deaths. Every villain is getting offed in a way where they offed others. Circular call backs, crowd pleasing moments. GoT has changed... for the better!

Heshinsi said:
Question for you guys now based on the preview.

What the Lords of the Reach who betrayed and broke faith with House Tyrell did, is essentially a grievous breaking of their oaths. In season one when Robb tells Maestor Lumin to summon the bannermen, and Maestor Lumin asks if he wants all of them summoned, Robb says something to the effect of "they all swore to defend my father right?!" Randall Tarly and the Lords of the Reach who followed him, were oath bound to protect, defend, and if necessary, avenge Mace Tyrell. So when Dany says, "bend the knee and join me, refuse or die" I think she's being way too generous about what they actually did. I get that she wants to give them a chance, but how can she trust people like that?
Click to expand...

Well this is the same queen who accepted allies who killed their own flesh and blood to usurp, and those who basically denied the power of democracy and stole a fleet. Not the most trustworthy lot.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
duckroll said:
Was he a deserter?
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Yes
Heshinsi said:
Bro, I can't follow you down this path.

giphy.gif
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No worries dude. You know when to back me up but I got it this time
Fenderputty said:
He was bound by oath not to run. That's not something Ned would ever do. Ned's downfall was honor, not karma. Very few face karmatic revenge in game of thrones.
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I'm not saying it was actual karma I'm saying I didn't like that he did that. There's no discrimination for beheading deserters. If they were brothers that were murderers and rapists that desert then yeah execute them.

But if they were brothers that came from more decent or humble backgrounds then they at least deserve to give an explanation for why they deserted. That guy didn't seem like a bad guy.

molnizzle said:
Yes, this is Game of Thrones.
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Yes, a lot of fucked up shit happens in Game of Thrones.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
duckroll said:
That was true until season 6, where everyone seemed to die karmatic deaths. Every villain is getting offed in a way where they offed others. Circular call backs, crowd pleasing moments. GoT has changed... for the better!



Well this is the same queen who accepted allies who killed their own flesh and blood to usurp, and those who basically denied the power of democracy and stole a fleet. Not the most trustworthy lot.
Click to expand...

I totally forgot about the fucking Sand Snakes haha. I had to reread that line multiple times wondering who the hell you were talking about. You're right. I don't necessarily agree with that characterisation of Yara and Theon, considering that Euron wanted to murder them. But yeah, I can't believe I forgot about the Sand Snakes.

So is there enough time on the clock for Bronn to still be able to rescue Tyenne?
 
T

The One and Done™

Member
RDreamer said:
That's gotta be it. I mean look at this:

giphy.gif


He's like 3 feet form the wheels of the siege weapon. Someone explain this.
Click to expand...

His Resistance was upgraded to 1000/1100 making him almost invulnerable to elemental attacks. Additionally his agility is also 998/1000 giving him longer invulnerability frames during dodging.
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
Heshinsi said:
Question for you guys now based on the preview.

What the Lords of the Reach who betrayed and broke faith with House Tyrell did, is essentially a grievous breaking of their oaths. In season one when Robb tells Maestor Lumin to summon the bannermen, and Maestor Lumin asks if he wants all of them summoned, Robb says something to the effect of "they all swore to defend my father right?!" Randall Tarly and the Lords of the Reach who followed him, were oath bound to protect, defend, and if necessary, avenge Mace Tyrell. So when Dany says, "bend the knee and join me, refuse or die" I think she's being way too generous about what they actually did. I get that she wants to give them a chance, but how can she trust people like that?
Click to expand...
I think she needs to be generous to win support. The worst case scenario is that she would just burn them in their castles.
 
BeforeU

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
RDreamer said:
That's gotta be it. I mean look at this:

giphy.gif


He's like 3 feet form the wheels of the siege weapon. Someone explain this.
Click to expand...

Stop finding logic on every scene. If you go tgat route lot of shit doesn't make sense in the show lol
 
V

Vectorman

Banned
Man I'm still cracking up at savage wingman Davos. Dude is roasting Jon with his 'looking at her good heart' and 'fewer' lines. Then he just straight up flirts with Missandei. Doesn't he still have a wife lol?
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
The Artisan said:
it's a barbaric law! i didn't write it, i said my opinion, obviously my opinion is not more important than the law of the land
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Without it, the Night's Watch would just up and leave. Also, a lot of them were lawbreakers to begin with, like really bad lawbreakers. Or ones who got fucked by shitty rulers/laws. Regardless, the brotherhood relies on each other and deserters break morale.

I say that as someone who would desert in a heartbeat.
 
D

duckroll

Member
The Artisan said:
it's a barbaric law! i didn't write it, i said my opinion, obviously my opinion is not more important than the law of the land
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Okay but how does a barbaric law result in karma of being betrayed twice while doing the right thing and getting beheaded after there was a complicit agreement to spare his life?
 
T

The Artisan

Member
TimeEffect said:
Without it, the Night's Watch would just up and leave. Also, a lot of them were lawbreakers to begin with, like really bad lawbreakers. Or ones who got fucked by shitty rulers/laws. Regardless, the brotherhood relies on each other and deserters break morale.

I say that as someone who would desert in a heartbeat.
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So it should depend on the brother's background. If he came from a background that's trustworthy or humble then they should be given a chance; maybe the guy was unhinged but in his last moments he realized his mistake and wanted to warn Ned. If Ned let him live things could've gone differently.
duckroll said:
Okay but how does a barbaric law result in karma of being betrayed twice while doing the right thing and getting beheaded after there was a complicit agreement to spare his life?
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I already said that I didn't mean that it was actual destined karma for Ned, I just I didn't like that he did that. Overall in the show I always rooted for him but that action of his was one of the things I didn't like even if it's the fuckin law.
 
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