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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
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Yup Jof was the kind of dude who torured cats to get his giggles compared to ramsey who's all out evil madman. I think he'd give the mad king competition.
Nah Oberyn loves both, he just doesn't play up his bi-sexuality in public.
Portugeezer
Member
Please tell me the midget doesn't stay in jail too long.
The One and Done
Member
Wtf
Portugeezer
Member
The One and Done;108184725 said:
oh, i am just guessing he is in jail now? no? they took him away.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Oberyn \ o /
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
lol well they took him away at the end of the episode. This is GoT we are talking here. people have been executed for much much less than poisoning the king at his wedding. lol
BuggyDClown
Member
I think his wtf was to how you worded the question.
Yekshemesh
Member
It's hard to notice the dead pigeon in the cake. I was thinking this shot meant something else. Like the blade was poisoned.
I think it's symbolism for alot of innocent people are going to die for the assassination.
Something Wicked
Member
I'm still a few pages back, so forgive me if this theory has already been discussed to death (no pun intended):
Most seem to be looking at individuals you could perceive as an enemy against the throne and the Lannisters, but the more I think about it, the more I go back to Tywin.
Doesn't have have the most to gain (as far as the BIG picture) from Joffrey dying?
-Joffrey was psychotic. Tywin knew that and you could tell he despised the boy. For a man that plays 'the game' almost flawlessly, having an unpredictable maniac like Joff on the throne creates a lot of problems for him strategically.
-Joffrey had formed a hell of an ego. As much as he wanted to sit at council meetings, you could tell he had no interest in the way he was being advised by others. Tywin's getting older and possibly felt his grasp on "the boy king" was getting weaker by the day. Tywin could outwit Joff instantly, but maybe he felt he couldn't out-power him any longer? Joff didn't consider himself a child any more, but a supreme ruler. The moment Tywin realized he could not control the boy any more, he became a major liability.
-I imagine Tywin played a hand in Robert's death (sorry if that deserves a bit "DUH!" response). It was clear that Robert's death wasn't truly an accident, but if you have Tywin as 'the phantom menace', setting the pieces in place, getting the Lannisters in a true position of power within Kings Landing, it all makes sense. Tywin even mentions (can't remember the exact quote) that the family gaining power and status supersedes individual emotional attachment... or something along those lines. Ending Joffrey could be perceived as benefiting the entire family AND their control of the realm. Even though Margery (sp?) helped, ole' Joff had what you might call a bit of an 'image problem'.
-Tywin knew Joff truly was the product of an incestuous relationship between his children. This is making an assumption on Tywin's overall character, but perhaps that was enough for the boy to inherit a death sentence from his perspective? Get him on the throne, end him before Stark's "rumor" is dug up even more, bury that past forever.
-Tywin wanted to unite the Lannisters with the Tyrells to expand power, but I get the feeling he wasn't crazy about the Tyrells actually benefiting from that arrangement? Sure, the marriage (if I'm understanding correctly) is now null-and-void for the throne, but they still have a potential connection with Cersei and Lorias that still unites the houses, but prevents Marg from gaining power when (and yes, it was inevitable) Joff bites the dust.
-Tywin also despises Tyrion and he knows Tyrion despises Joffrey. He has seem Joff openly mock Tyrion and he might even know an attempt has already been made on Tyrion's life. That's automatic motive, at least on the surface, for Tyrion to go after Joffrey. Tywin has been looking for a helpful 'purpose' for the imp... and being the scapegoat for Joff's death just seems perfect in a twisted way. Two birds, one stone. This one is a bit of a stretch, but Tywin simply doesn't seem to care for Tyrion's existence and also can't straight-up kill his son. This leads me to the next thought:
-Poison. Isn't poison considered the coward's method of assassination? It might have also been referred to as the "woman's way", but maybe I'm mixing that up with something else? Regardless, if the individual(s) that organized the killing wanted to set the narrative, the method is key... and poison could point away from the true guilty party.
-The crown goes to Joff's younger brother, I assume, and although still technically a Baratheon, he's been among the Lannisters his whole life, and might be an easier, less unpredictable puppet for Tywin to control the throne with.
I think it would be a brilliant play by a man who has already shown he knows how to make the chips fall in his favor.
It also seems to me he would be one of the last people suspected, especially due to his high standings and respect among his people and army.
Great episode, though.
Seeing Theon's reaction to hearing Robb was dead was heartbreaking.
Yeah, I feel like Tywin was involved, as well. It would seem that there would be a good chance of Tywin quickly finding out whether Olenna/Margaery poisoned the wine cup. And if that happened without his consent, Tywin would have the Tyrells immediately executed in King's Landing and send his armies into Highgarden.
Tywin, on the other hand, would have a much better chance of doing this and getting away with it.
Tywin may have told Pycelle to get rid of Joffery and Pycelle saw the opportunity by poisoning the cake when he was ordered to go into the kitchen.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
I always kinda root for the bad guys in shows/movies. I'm gonna miss the little shit.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
No way I see Tywin doing it. I would be surprised. Just doesn't seem like his character would do it since he seems the most focused on carrying on the Lannister bloodline and name
I dunno what was up with Sansa. Was it implying that she did it when the guy said "if you want to live, we have to leave"
I dunno what was up with Sansa. Was it implying that she did it when the guy said "if you want to live, we have to leave"
Agreed. Tywin was pretty much King through Joffrey anyway, no reason to have him killed.
Servbot #42
Unconfirmed Member
That was a good episode, good riddance to the "king" Also i feel bad for Theon, i know he did some awful shit but i don't think no one deserves what he went trough, he's basically a empty shell. That's why his storyline is the most intriguing for me personally, you just know there's gonna be a turnaround and you will start rooting for him just like jaime.
That scene where Ramsay tells him to shave him while informing him about Robb says it all. He could have killed Ramsay there, but he didn't even have the strength for that. He's a broken man, something Ramsay wanted to prove to his father it seems.
He did have the strength for it, he just wanted to carry on living.
You really think Locke and Roose would have stood there and not killed him for it?
Theon was visibly hurt when he heard what happened to Robb. He is acting as Ramsay's slave to stay alive -- he wants to live.
Agreed
Anyway thanks to Bran, we all know how the Iron Throne will be soon, because Winter is coming.
I mean that's the same set that Dany walked though in the second season so the House of the Undying had it down first.
Anyway thanks to Bran, we all know how the Iron Throne will be soon, because Winter is coming.
I liked the Dragons in King's Landing too. Bran needs to use spoiler tags next time.
I think what Bran sees is what could happen, not what will happen...
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
List of named characters who are now dead in the TV series so far
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Status:_Dead
Holy crap lol
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Status:_Dead
Holy crap lol
That's what I thought. Kinda like Frodo looking into the palantir in Lord of the Rings
EdibleKnife
Member
Possibly the fool knew she and Tyrion would be in peoples sights after his death. He probably knows who did it or may have played some role.
You're right, it was the same prophecy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiaVxxsjmA
Jon Snow was on the Throne with his direwolf.
Yep that's a possibility.
RedBullEnergy
Member
Another reason to admire this actor. I wouldn't want him to get typecasted.
He's officially retired from acting since this episode.
Interceptor
Banned
No way I see Tywin doing it. I would be surprised. Just doesn't seem like his character would do it since he seems the most focused on carrying on the Lannister bloodline and name
I dunno what was up with Sansa. Was it implying that she did it when the guy said "if you want to live, we have to leave"
Tywin would never kill his own - he even let that cribbled dwarf live and carry his name. Because he is a Lannister.
I tell you guys - Olenna did it and she planned to frame sansa for the murder. This is game of thrones - there are no nice people to save your beloved actors. Sansa sudden disappearance will put her in the spotlight, the carefully introduced neglace with its heartwarming story will be all the evidence cersey needs. The unplanned public humiliation of tyrion was a welcome support for Olenna. I don´t think she wanted to frame Tyrion as well, but i doubt she will be too upset about it.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
It was Shae, getting revenge on Tyrion and Sansa by framing them for Joffrey's murder :lol
I'm still a few pages back, so forgive me if this theory has already been discussed to death (no pun intended):
Most seem to be looking at individuals you could perceive as an enemy against the throne and the Lannisters, but the more I think about it, the more I go back to Tywin.
Doesn't have have the most to gain (as far as the BIG picture) from Joffrey dying?
-Joffrey was psychotic. Tywin knew that and you could tell he despised the boy. For a man that plays 'the game' almost flawlessly, having an unpredictable maniac like Joff on the throne creates a lot of problems for him strategically.
-Joffrey had formed a hell of an ego. As much as he wanted to sit at council meetings, you could tell he had no interest in the way he was being advised by others. Tywin's getting older and possibly felt his grasp on "the boy king" was getting weaker by the day. Tywin could outwit Joff instantly, but maybe he felt he couldn't out-power him any longer? Joff didn't consider himself a child any more, but a supreme ruler. The moment Tywin realized he could not control the boy any more, he became a major liability.
-I imagine Tywin played a hand in Robert's death (sorry if that deserves a bit "DUH!" response
-Tywin knew Joff truly was the product of an incestuous relationship between his children. This is making an assumption on Tywin's overall character, but perhaps that was enough for the boy to inherit a death sentence from his perspective? Get him on the throne, end him before Stark's "rumor" is dug up even more, bury that past forever.
-Tywin wanted to unite the Lannisters with the Tyrells to expand power, but I get the feeling he wasn't crazy about the Tyrells actually benefiting from that arrangement? Sure, the marriage (if I'm understanding correctly) is now null-and-void for the throne, but they still have a potential connection with Cersei and Lorias that still unites the houses, but prevents Marg from gaining power when (and yes, it was inevitable) Joff bites the dust.
-Tywin also despises Tyrion and he knows Tyrion despises Joffrey. He has seem Joff openly mock Tyrion and he might even know an attempt has already been made on Tyrion's life. That's automatic motive, at least on the surface, for Tyrion to go after Joffrey. Tywin has been looking for a helpful 'purpose' for the imp... and being the scapegoat for Joff's death just seems perfect in a twisted way. Two birds, one stone. This one is a bit of a stretch, but Tywin simply doesn't seem to care for Tyrion's existence and also can't straight-up kill his son. This leads me to the next thought:
-Poison. Isn't poison considered the coward's method of assassination? It might have also been referred to as the "woman's way", but maybe I'm mixing that up with something else? Regardless, if the individual(s) that organized the killing wanted to set the narrative, the method is key... and poison could point away from the true guilty party.
-The crown goes to Joff's younger brother, I assume, and although still technically a Baratheon, he's been among the Lannisters his whole life, and might be an easier, less unpredictable puppet for Tywin to control the throne with.
I think it would be a brilliant play by a man who has already shown he knows how to make the chips fall in his favor.
It also seems to me he would be one of the last people suspected, especially due to his high standings and respect among his people and army.
Great episode, though.
Seeing Theon's reaction to hearing Robb was dead was heartbreaking.
Nice analysis. I still don't believe it but your conjecture is so airtight it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out Tywin did it because you laid down very reasonable pieces of information and possible foreshadowing sequences.
The only thing I wish everyone stopped doing is inserting "they are trying to frame Tyrion" into whatever answer they have. Tyrion being the center of attention couldn't be planned for because Joffrey's malicious whims can't be planned for.
Cersei isn't blaming Tyrion. She's scapegoating him because he is the most immediate and recent source of defying her son.
While I don't believe this, I would add that if it is true this episode was telling us this in advance at the start of the episode when Jaime and Tyrion were eating together.
THe breakfast starts off with Tyrion reminding us Cersei has a taste for boar ever since her husband was killed by one.
Then the wine is spilled and Tyrion tells Jaime it is only wine.
Then Tyrion tells Jaime to be more like father if he can't express his power through his sword anymore.
Jaime himself points out at this point he can't trust his own instincts which doesn't allow him to protect the king.
Jaime goes even further to point out that if people found out he couldn't slay a pigeon his days as head of the kings guard would be over.
So far at this point everything mentioned (if Tywin was the plotter) is a reference to what is going to happen at the end of this episode.
This puts into question the rest of the conversation at this point. The brothers discuss how spies are everywhere, you need a hand to do what you can't do yourself and that you need to be able to find a discreet swordsman. Would Varys be that discreet swordsman for Tywin?
This episode is a diamond mine for gifs.
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
You know the difference between a wolf and a direwolf?
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Yeah, dire wolves are dire, duh.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Arrowgigantic
Member
Last season, Bran sent her off with Rickon so they weren't all in one group.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
episode title,Lion and the rose?
Lady Olenna Tyrell, queen of thorns?
Tyrell house sigil is a golden rose?
Just cementing my threory
Lady Olenna Tyrell, queen of thorns?
Tyrell house sigil is a golden rose?
Just cementing my threory
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
I wouldn't read too much into it. All it signifies is the wedding between the two houses.
When he was hitting on that lady-in-waiting, for some reason the first thing which comes to my mind was James Franco.
#thethirstisreal
Back at Tyrion and Sansa's wedding feast in 3x08 you can hear him say "ooh I like you very much" to a handmaiden.
Eh, Lion and the Rose is just symbolizing their wedding, the merging of the two sigils.
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