Just because he dies doesn't mean he's not a major character. He is one of the major players.
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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Like I said, if you're complaining about this you should also be complaining about the gratuitous use of violence and foul language that are also used(in your terms) lazily to keep people engaged. I don't see the difference between the placement of sex and the violence used in the show. people are complaining simply because it's just that, sex.
We aren't the ones making a number out of it. Nudity is nudity & sex is sex, they're pretty natural things in life. I've seen enough breasts in my life to not get all giddy when I see nude women in TV shows. The problem is with you if you are so bothered about it that you have to bitch about it every time there is a glimpse of boobies or sex in the show.
ASOS
So Robb ain't a major character either, going by your way of viewing things. Neither was Ned. Or Robert.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
If there is one thing consistent in HBO shows it's tons of fucking and naked people. I've already accepted it as reality, for better or for worse. Probably the reason I rarely watch HBO shows with other people lol.
It's not that he dies. It's that clearly he has a very minor role.
You are pretty much an idiot for getting this from my post.
If the violent scenes lasted as long as the sex scenes there would be way more controversy.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I have not once stated that nudity bothers me. I have however, repeatedly taken issue with the way nudity AND sex is executed on this show. There have been scenes where I believe it is effective (Dany, Margaery) but in most instances, it's to either serve exposition or heavy handedly illustrate that yes, this is CABLE TELEVISION. Not to mention, it's almost excessively female nudity to boot, proving the lingering male gaze.
I guess there are really three camps here:
-those who are arguing the sex and nudity is only there to 'fill a quota' and that they serve no purpose other than to 'appeal to the idiot viewers' and that including it is somehow 'cheapening' the show
-those who are arguing that they find the use of sex as an exposition delivery device excessive
-those who are arguing the sex and nudity is just another aspect of the show that serves to show how real this world is and don't look at it any differently than the graphic violence or strong language
I vehemently disagree with camp 1 and would question whether they are watching the same show as me. I sort of see camp 2's point, but I take into consideration that there are lots of expository scenes without sex and nudity, so really having a few scenes of exposition be delivered via a sex scene isn't all that egregious and it is line with the gritty nature of the show. (As a side-note to that: so far in this season the sex scenes haven't been used for exposition, so it's possible that D&D took that criticism to heart and have reduced the number of 'sexposition' scenes this year).
But mostly, I am in camp 3, and don't look at the sex or nudity any differently than any other scene. It is just another way to show the texture of this world AND propel the narrative forward AND further reveal character motives and depth.
Forsaken82
Member
I don't agree with that at all, but to each their own.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
The word you guys are looking for is "pivotal".
bengraven
Member
I'll add a fourth and fifth camp:
- those who think fantasy automatically equals teenage boys and pre-teen girls and that even though the show is on HBO (a channel with it's fair share of pointless sex scenes - see: The Sopranoes) they shouldn't be exposed to that kind of thing.
- those who subconciously consider fantasy somewhere with light sex and violence and are uncomfortable with mixing sexuality with the genre - I think a lot of complainers here are in that camp.
- those who think fantasy automatically equals teenage boys and pre-teen girls and that even though the show is on HBO (a channel with it's fair share of pointless sex scenes - see: The Sopranoes) they shouldn't be exposed to that kind of thing.
- those who subconciously consider fantasy somewhere with light sex and violence and are uncomfortable with mixing sexuality with the genre - I think a lot of complainers here are in that camp.
I definitely didn't get that out of her portrayal in the book. [ALL BOOK SPOILERS]
I felt that her nature was a ruse, conspired with her house Tyrell, for her to appear weak to her betrothed and their family. TWICE! To what end, I don't know, but that is how I take her. I think she was cast well with that in mind. I've always felt she was more than meets the eye and her smile should be knowing.
QueenOfThorns
Member
Sixth: Those who wouldn't really mind the nudity or sex scenes at all if it was equal. Instead the direction is aimed towards the typical dudebro demographic. We might see two dudes making out every now and then, but they'll be fully clothed. Women, however, in pretty much every sex scene will always be fully naked, with the camera focusing solely on them.
I personally wouldn't mind the nudity or sex scenes if it wasn't filmed and directed in such a juvenile, generic male gaze-y way.
I don't know if anyone has linked it, but this made me laugh. http://randomestduckeva.tumblr.com/post/21189061116/snls-game-of-thrones
I personally wouldn't mind the nudity or sex scenes if it wasn't filmed and directed in such a juvenile, generic male gaze-y way.
I don't know if anyone has linked it, but this made me laugh. http://randomestduckeva.tumblr.com/post/21189061116/snls-game-of-thrones
I'll be over here in this camp.
Sure, I'm not saying you have to agree. But
if he's a major character, then I think so is Yoren and hundreds of other characters. What sense would it make to show Yoren have sex and devote a 10 minute scene just to him when he won't be around for long? I don't understand why you would do that when it means you have to cut out/rush through the story parts of the actual main characters.
A) Part of it is probably due to Westeros being a male-dominated world and the women are being treated as objects (especially in the case of the prostitutes). It's not supposed to make us feel good or 'titillated' but sad about the state of affairs.
B) HBO, despite their reputation to the contrary, rarely shows explicit nudity. Lots of boobs and butts but hardly any genitals. What you seem to want is more penises to equal out the topless women, but I'm not sure if the two are equal. I think we've seen an equal amount of topless men to topless women and an equal amount of naked butts (and even genitals).
QueenOfThorns
Member
A: I get that it's a male dominated society and that a lot of these women are forced into it. That doesn't really excuse the directing which films it in the same exact way they'd film any other T&A shot. "Oh, that poor girl" *tits close up* "this must be so horrible" *ass shot* "just terrible."
B: I dunno, if they can find a way to make sure that the one gay male love scene is covered up..it just seems awfully convenient.
Yeah the scene where Daenarys took her top off and then the camera fast zoomed in and out while Viserys made honking noises was a little over the top.
Gonna be amazing.
QueenOfThorns
Member
That pretty much happened, minus the honking noises. I'm sure he was thinking it.
I haven't really noticed anything shady about the way the scenes are directed, but as a guy, my senses might not be as attuned to that sort thing.
I'm not really sure what more they could do in the gay love scene. They had topless guys passionately kissing but the scene didn't call for actual sex to take place. It's not like they were doing it with their clothes on or had conveniently placed vases or blankets obscuring things. The show has shown naked men before, like Drogo or Theon or Lancel, so I don't think it is something they shy away from.
Forsaken82
Member
That is the thing about this show. I actually do think Yoren and dozens of other characters are Major players in the story. And your point doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If Yoren had a reason to have sex, I am sure he would. His job is to get warriors to the wall (and to keep Arya and Gendry safe from the Lannisters) That is his role, and its pretty fucking important. The scene in which he gives Arya the idea for her nightly prayer solidifies his character,despite how little we got to know him. He played a huge part in defining Arya. That is a major character in my opinion.
Do you not consider Maester luwin to be a major character? He is integral to Teaching Bran how to be Lordly while his family is gone
yet he dies, and I doubt we will get many scenes with him
keep in mind, I don't consider Major characters to be the same as Main characters. Tyrion for example, I see as a Main or central character, but when it comes to major characters, if they play a big role in the storyline, i consider them a major character.
Gen.Grievous
Member
Definitely the best episode of season 2 thus far. Episode 4 preview shows some interesting stuff as well
. Wait will be long for next monday.
The Tickler and new Gregor Clegane are (re)introduced at Harrenhal I presume
She's 16. What's uncomfortable about finding a 16 year old attractive? As long as you don't act on it there are no problems.
From your limited knowledge of the States you must think horror movies make 500 million here.
No one wants to watch a six minute mutilation scene regardless of country. The sex scenes are complained about because many of them suck on this show.
There is not the same degree of criticism on most other HBO shows. For the record I didn' t find much wrong with the ones this week except the Renly one shows that it is not for realism. They have yet to show an actual gay sex scene.
Forsaken82
Member
I don't think its a contest. People complaining about Yara have less of an argument in my opinion
Harry Potter
Banned
Some people in here need to kick back a few glasses of Dornish wine and chill out.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I have no idea what's going on in here. It makes me sad.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
This thread has turned into a complete shitshow sadly.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Harry Potter
Banned
Just enjoy the ride people.
criesofthepast
Member
My books arrived and can't wait to start reading. Really nice box set for $20.
timetokill
Banned
You don't have the books lined up in the right order YOU FOOL
Cuts are going to happen. It's a different medium. This version of the story is progressing fine.
Grats! Now hurry up and get on that incredible rollercoaster!My books arrived and can't wait to start reading. Really nice box set for $20.
criesofthepast
Member
Damn I spent the whole 20 seconds lining up the books for the photo op and I fudged it all up.
Hah grats manDamn I spent the whole 20 seconds lining up the books for the photo op and I fudged it all up.
There's a no books thread
RPGCrazied
Member
The sex scenes need to go, but its nice to see the man-on-man action occur sometimes. Another thing I hate, is they always wait until the last 5 minutes to get really good... then you have to wait another week to see how it plays out. UGH.
Another thing I hate, is they always wait until the last 5 minutes to get really good... then you have to wait another week to see how it plays out. UGH.Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
The sex scenes need to go, but its nice to see the man-on-man action occur sometimes.
Heh, new to television dramas are we
Ok
The point was violence we Americans like are tied to brevity of scene. Too long a scene is too much of a scene.
Sex we Americans like to see (& Americans love watching both sex and violence) is tied to specific storyline, sensuality, or porn.
GoT has a horrible lack of any of those things and they go on for too long to boot. They're like non-porn. My objections are not for moral reasons. It has more to do with the reasons feel tacked on in a lot of cases and there's so much to the show they have to chop its a horrible waste of time.
Haha, ya got me.
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