This isn't the book. It's a television adaptation (i.e. modification) that has to fit and work within the constraints of a mere 10 hours per season, on top of being limited by budget and shooting schedules. The cast of characters is enormous and there are a number of plotlines to give time to, and they are doing what they can with the significant limitations they're faced with.
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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This isn't the book. It's a television adaptation (i.e. modification) that has to fit and work within the constraints of a mere 10 hours per season, on top of being limited by budget and shooting schedules. The cast of characters is enormous and there are a number of plotlines to give time to, and they are doing what they can with the significant limitations they're faced with.
This is definitely not a bad thing. Cersei needs to have some relatable features in her so that (AFFC spoiler)
the viewer can feel at least something when her fall to insanity begins.
I think this is a good television show but a bad apatation in many ways. Sometimes they don't attempt to do something just because it is a lot easier to have people in one room or a single location. If they just put a little more effort into it, it could be a great adaptation while still being able to work as a television show.
Bingo. I don't really care if GoT isn't exactly what readers had envisioned come to life. It's an adaptation. And in S2, its becoming a very good television show. Which is all I care about since I'm watching a television show.
This video, GoT fans just found out about it, haha.
PhoenixDark
Banned
After this last episode I have no more hopes of the show redeeming itself. The showrunners fail to understand the most basic elements of the novel and at this point are not only cutting things for budgetary reasons, but to give screentime to cliched or poorly thought-out crap that they make up or isn't necessary.
The protagonist of the book is Tyrion. This is HIS book, and it's his moment in the spotlight. We are given no hint throughout the season that he has a master plan in mind, or that he's using his position as hand to influence absolutely anything. But oh look, he slaps Joffrey again! The viewers will eat that up. Almost the entire novel is spent with him making preparations for the defense of the city. This makes Stannis a significant threat. We've gone two episodes now without Stannis. Will we go a third? By the time anything happens viewers probably won't even remember who the guy is.
Jaime killing his cousin is one of the worse liberties the show has taken with anything yet. I mean really, is it that difficult for him to ask his cousin to pretend he's dead? It's really necessary to kill him in cold blood like this? If he doesn't want him escaping with him he can just leave him chained up. This is just cheap shock value at the expense of an entire character. Furthermore, you're telling me they HAD to put the cousin in this cage, they couldn't have tied him up on a pole anywhere? Jesus.
The Arya and Tywin scenes are HORRIBLE. They're dehumanizing Jaime while humanizing Tywin. Why??? And Arya should be in Harrenhal fearing for her life, living in hopeless misery every day. The novel was painful to read with all the suffering she went through, and the hatred she harbors, but this is what gives her fortitude and creates her arc. I just don't understand why there's a need to make her look cozy and comfortable. Instead of spending 15 interminable minutes with Jaime and his cousin, why don't we get a simple scene of her breaking down in private or something? I mean come on, we're not even talking budget right now.
Here's a simple way to establish in 3 minutes what they haven't managed to do in 7 episodes, just by trimming the Jaime scene or getting rid of one of the 5 scenes with Jon which were all about the same thing anyway. Instead of shitting up the one-minute reveal of Bran and Rickon's bodies with an amateurish fade to black and Theon looking at what I can only suppose was a coin on the ground, why don't we have a foreboding piece of music come up, and in silent montage style, just a few establishing shots of some characters: Sansa crying over some bloody bed sheets, Arya hugging herself to sleep, Stannis brooding over his map, Cat looking over Ned's bones and sending them to Winterfell. Maybe it's not in the general style we've seen up till now, but one of the big things for me that the show is doing wrong (aside from all this, which will be labeled as nerd nitpicking by people who fail to see most of these are legitimate complaints about what ultimately amounts to making effective character and plot arcs) is the pedestrian way it is filmed and edited together. We have almost constant static shots and very basic edits that just cut back from one character to another, with no creativity to ANY of it, and a soundtrack that creeps in robotically on cue whenever a scene is reaching its climax. Why don't we get more scenes like when Theon arrived on Pyke, something with sweeping music, maybe a theme or two that can be orchestrated in a very subdued way during calm scenes so as to not call attention to itself? There are just so many ways this could be more cinematically presented.
is going to be a travesty. I feel it in my bones.Episode 9
Tyrion entered the city firing on all cylinders, but since then he hasn't done much but complain about Joffery. While I thought the last ep was great, I am concerned about the lack of focus on Tyrion lately, and his apparent disinterest in defending the city.
I love the Arya and Tywin scenes, but at the same time the show has almost completely ruined her arc from the book. I was really looking forward to it, perhaps more than anything, but eh. The stuff they're doing is good TV, I just feel it could have been great. Maise is such a good actress, I'd love her to get better material than happily serving and insulting Tywin - which is cool and all, but she's been living the comfy life basically.
And I agree on the unimaginative editing and robotic music cues...
They're straying from the path a little but mostly for practical reasons; its still a faithful adaptation. They're telling the same story, and there's been no real indication onscreen or off that that's going to change.
I think the writers are in a very difficult situation. They aren't been slavish enough to the source material to appease hardcore fans like myself, but I think they're far too restricted by it to make a legitimately great standalone piece that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath of some of the current tv greats. With season 1 they made a great adaptation and a great tv show, but I think for the remaining books it's not possible to do both; there are too many stories and too many characters for episodes to feel focused or to make swift progress with the overall story. Important stuff is inevitably going to get cut, and the plot in the books is so watertight that often small deviations come off as contrived and create plot holes.
I realise this is a minority opinion, and maybe I'm just bitter about changes, but personally I don't think season 2 has been very good television. Part of me would kind of like to see them throw the books out the window and just do there own think, maintaining some of the tone and iconic events a la Walking Dead. However I can't help but feel the more the writers have been putting their own stamp on it, the more they've been exposed to be actually pretty average. There've been some great added scenes, Yoren's speech to Arya in ep2 stands out as a highlight, but the constancy just isn't there.
PhoenixDark
Banned
http://winteriscoming.net/2012/05/initial-ratings-drop-slightly-totals-unchanged/#comments
Better than ratings dropping, but it looks like we can count out GoT not matching True Blood's second season.
I wonder what the cumulative weekly number is so far
Well, it was Mother's Day.
Hmm. I actually agree with you, if the show was supposed to be 1:1 with the book. I do think they are botchingAfter this last episode I have no more hopes of the show redeeming itself. The showrunners fail to understand the most basic elements of the novel and at this point are not only cutting things for budgetary reasons, but to give screentime to cliched or poorly thought-out crap that they make up or isn't necessary.
The protagonist of the book is Tyrion. This is HIS book, and it's his moment in the spotlight. We are given no hint throughout the season that he has a master plan in mind, or that he's using his position as hand to influence absolutely anything. But oh look, he slaps Joffrey again! The viewers will eat that up. Almost the entire novel is spent with him making preparations for the defense of the city. This makes Stannis a significant threat. We've gone two episodes now without Stannis. Will we go a third? By the time anything happens viewers probably won't even remember who the guy is.
Jaime killing his cousin is one of the worse liberties the show has taken with anything yet. I mean really, is it that difficult for him to ask his cousin to pretend he's dead? It's really necessary to kill him in cold blood like this? If he doesn't want him escaping with him he can just leave him chained up. This is just cheap shock value at the expense of an entire character. Furthermore, you're telling me they HAD to put the cousin in this cage, they couldn't have tied him up on a pole anywhere? Jesus.
The Arya and Tywin scenes are HORRIBLE. They're dehumanizing Jaime while humanizing Tywin. Why??? And Arya should be in Harrenhal fearing for her life, living in hopeless misery every day. The novel was painful to read with all the suffering she went through, and the hatred she harbors, but this is what gives her fortitude and creates her arc. I just don't understand why there's a need to make her look cozy and comfortable. Instead of spending 15 interminable minutes with Jaime and his cousin, why don't we get a simple scene of her breaking down in private or something? I mean come on, we're not even talking budget right now.
Here's a simple way to establish in 3 minutes what they haven't managed to do in 7 episodes, just by trimming the Jaime scene or getting rid of one of the 5 scenes with Jon which were all about the same thing anyway. Instead of shitting up the one-minute reveal of Bran and Rickon's bodies with an amateurish fade to black and Theon looking at what I can only suppose was a coin on the ground, why don't we have a foreboding piece of music come up, and in silent montage style, just a few establishing shots of some characters: Sansa crying over some bloody bed sheets, Arya hugging herself to sleep, Stannis brooding over his map, Cat looking over Ned's bones and sending them to Winterfell. Maybe it's not in the general style we've seen up till now, but one of the big things for me that the show is doing wrong (aside from all this, which will be labeled as nerd nitpicking by people who fail to see most of these are legitimate complaints about what ultimately amounts to making effective character and plot arcs) is the pedestrian way it is filmed and edited together. We have almost constant static shots and very basic edits that just cut back from one character to another, with no creativity to ANY of it, and a soundtrack that creeps in robotically on cue whenever a scene is reaching its climax. Why don't we get more scenes like when Theon arrived on Pyke, something with sweeping music, maybe a theme or two that can be orchestrated in a very subdued way during calm scenes so as to not call attention to itself? There are just so many ways this could be more cinematically presented.
is going to be a travesty. I feel it in my bones.Episode 9
Tyrion's chain and defense building
him hanging out with Shae and having sex with her
Having not watched Season 2 yet (Waiting for it to be finished), while I get that some things have to be changed to makes things work, some of the changes I've heard about don't really make sense, like Tyrion and the chain for example. It's one of the most important things he does as a character, and the fact that it's being swept under the hug for scenes with Cersei don't make any sense to me. That, and making big changes to Arya's plotline. Her going from the mouse of Harrenhal to the ghost is a huge part of who she becomes, and without all the crap she has to go through it makes the whole arc less powerful IMO. Hopefully I'm wrong and am presently surprised when I get around to watching Season 2.
.
I love this .gif
.For those who are pissed off about the way this show is going, when did you start reading the series? I started in 99.. when I was 12 years old. Read GOT and Clash of Kings within 2 weeks. Bought A Storm of Swords the day it was released in 2000. There will never be a replacement for these books, which have been an important part of my life for 13 years now.
This show, IMO, is great. There's no need for me to compare the books, which are my favorite series of all time, to a TV show incessantly. I don't know why that is, but I'm so fucking glad it's true. The complaints I've read in this thread are getting to the point where I don't even like coming in here anymore. I'd rather read the no-book thread for actual discussion about the show.
This show, IMO, is great. There's no need for me to compare the books, which are my favorite series of all time, to a TV show incessantly. I don't know why that is, but I'm so fucking glad it's true. The complaints I've read in this thread are getting to the point where I don't even like coming in here anymore. I'd rather read the no-book thread for actual discussion about the show.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's pretty telling that virtually everyone who thinks the show "can't redeem itself" is a book reader who's making a ton of assumptions about how their pet character or pet scenes will be handled in future events and demands it be identical to the book.
This.
The only reason I can even enjoy the show anymore is because I watch it on my phone while I run on the treadmill.
The type of situation where any entertainment is automatically twice as good, then I think about the episode for more than 10 sec and /raaage.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Yeah, you don't get any of the sense of danger or progression from TV Arya that you do in the books with her starting out in the kitchens, getting beaten by Wease and moving up to cupbearer via her actions. TV Arya seems to have it pretty easy, having the run of the castle and chatting it up with kind ol' Uncle Tywin. It makes her death requests from Jaqen to not seem like a matter of survival like the books, but more like just things to do just because (maybe with the exception of Amory Lorch).
Thats just my main issue with the show. Its mostly hitting the main sort of plot point landmarks that you'd consider the major bullet points from the books, but the characterization of characters and how they're arriving at those landmarks is, to varying degrees, different. And with certain characters, I think how the show is presenting their development doesn't always end up making sense that they'd necessarily end up at the same plot points of the book, based on how they're developing them on the show. And its these little changes in characterization that add up though the further the show goes along to the point where I'm not sure how believable certain events or developments will seem without giving the characters the same characterization the books give; like Jon seeming dumb as a box of rocks and having little interaction to learn from Qhorin or Arya having it pretty easy in Harrenhal.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
It seems a lot of you are only hearing what you want to hear. The main complaint about this show is the atrocious direction, editing, characterization and more than anything pacing.
But of course, disservice to the books plays a role in the show being ass. Now, people say this can't be a word for word adaptation of the book, fine. But why are changes like Arya being well fed as Tywin's cupbearer even included, when the source material offers far more riveting action and development? As Kammie said earlier, it's not even about budget at this point.
But of course, disservice to the books plays a role in the show being ass. Now, people say this can't be a word for word adaptation of the book, fine. But why are changes like Arya being well fed as Tywin's cupbearer even included, when the source material offers far more riveting action and development? As Kammie said earlier, it's not even about budget at this point.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Have you ever thought that it's the non-readers that are giving the series a bad name? They have low expectations. People liked the first season of The Walking Dead and look at how terrible it is. We compare to the source material because of how good it is. Do you have any idea of the potential the books have? The "we could have nothing..." book reader is worse than the "patrick swayze what the fuck is this shit?" book reader if you ask me.
Haha, yes. My dad calls me to discuss the latest Game of Thrones every week and my favorite thing is how he talks about what "Khaleesi" has been up to.
bengraven
Member
This is basically what I'm assuming will happen.
Damn, terms of my parole are that I can't watch something like this.
You read an "objective" analysis about the show which he begins "I'm not talking about the books", yet goes on to bitch how the show is shitting on the books. It's an adaptation, some events & characters will be different (more or less). Also, he nitpicks about the extras stumbling a bit in a chaotic mob scene.
The fact is, non-bookreaders are enjoying this show while some book-readers take every change as a personal insult. Book-Jaime may have not killed his cousin, but that has fuck all to do with show-Jaime. Arya might not be in quite as shitty a situation as in the books, but we've gotten some really enjoyable character-building for Tywin this season and we've gotten different kind of suspense in the form of Littlefinger visiting and clearly noticing her & Tywin playing his little game with her. Book-readers do not know where the showrunners are going with some of the changes (since some of the pay-off might not come until a long time from now), so going all "OMG CHARACTER RUINED" is a bit premature.
I do agree that certain things are a bit rushed and there are some flaws, but that's just the fate of a book adaptation of this scope with tight schedules & limited budget. They also don't make this show "shit on the books." You always lose some of the complexity when doing a book -> tv show/movie adaptation & so far they've done a decent job at bringing the books into the visual medium (even improving on some aspects from the books).
And re: "no war preparations":
[ACOK]
-we have heard them talk about wildfire in more than one episode and even seen it, which will obviously be used as THE WEAPON against Stannis in the show, instead of the chain (which would be too big & hard to pull off in a tv show)
-there being no chain takes quite a lot away from the preparation chapters from the book
-they've acknowledged the fact that Stannis is coming, I don't really need to see Tyrion barking orders to understand they aren't just doing nothing and are very likely doing the standard procedures for when King's Landing is in danger
-they talked about their worries & plans for Stannis in this episode (Stannis having more ships, "reign fire on them" or such) and how they are in trouble
-we saw them take some precautions by sending Myrcella away
-we already got quite a bit of build-up to the Lannister-Tyrell alliance
+ we still have at least one whole episode before the Blackwater battle even begins, so we could still see Tyrion seeing through some preparations (& perhaps see a bit retroactively what he has done before now)
Besides, if I don't remember completely wrong, probably a majority of ACOK went into Tyrion scheming his way into getting more control in King's Landing (which we've seen in the show) and only a chapter here & there went into things like preparing the wild fire & the chain. I don't know if us seeing them preparing for the war is that important. It's the capital of Westeros, all they can do is pretty much "be ready for the attack" (there's not much else they can do but wait while making sure their defenses are ready).
-there being no chain takes quite a lot away from the preparation chapters from the book
-they've acknowledged the fact that Stannis is coming, I don't really need to see Tyrion barking orders to understand they aren't just doing nothing and are very likely doing the standard procedures for when King's Landing is in danger
-they talked about their worries & plans for Stannis in this episode (Stannis having more ships, "reign fire on them" or such) and how they are in trouble
-we saw them take some precautions by sending Myrcella away
-we already got quite a bit of build-up to the Lannister-Tyrell alliance
+ we still have at least one whole episode before the Blackwater battle even begins, so we could still see Tyrion seeing through some preparations (& perhaps see a bit retroactively what he has done before now)
Besides, if I don't remember completely wrong, probably a majority of ACOK went into Tyrion scheming his way into getting more control in King's Landing (which we've seen in the show) and only a chapter here & there went into things like preparing the wild fire & the chain. I don't know if us seeing them preparing for the war is that important. It's the capital of Westeros, all they can do is pretty much "be ready for the attack" (there's not much else they can do but wait while making sure their defenses are ready).
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yes this is what I'm thinking ACOK
But it's terrible. Especially considering Ygritte said that the Wildlings would show no mercy to Quorin. I'm hoping that Jon shows some initiative and manages to escape the Wildlings and meets back up with Quorin before the end. But then that creates the problem of whether the Wildlings would actually take him back. Although I guess they could explain it that the Wildlings think maybe Jon was leading the Halfhand to them. I dunno, it's a mess. I hope they fix it.
Posts like this miss the point. Just because the show does something different than the books doesn't mean it should be protected from criticism. People should praise the show when it does something different that sounds good, and criticize it when it does something different that doesn't.
Just because they aren't the same thing doesn't mean book readers can't voice their opinions on something that was changed that they don't like. Posts like this one unfairly loop all posts criticizing a change in the show as posts from whiny fanboy book readers. It does nothing but alienate a certain group in this thread and fails to foster decent discussion. Yes the show is something different, but sometimes the books do things better. It's fair to criticize that. I think it's YOU who needs to deal with that.
Steelyuhas
Member
Part of your spoiler is my main issue with this season though
Yes, we have seen Robb's development with Talisa, but we have sense almost nothing about this massive successful war he is waging. They have really dropped the ball on that front. There has been no context given to what he is doing this season, his goal for going west, and its significance on the war. It would not be difficult scenes to do either, a war council scene or two giving us an update of where things stand and that he went west to try to draw Tywin out of Harrenhal, using his superior horse numbers to try to beat him in the open field. Everyone likes Madden as Robb, and the material is in ACOK and ASOS to do scenes like this. There is really no reason for it. Because of this now, I am now terrified that they won't even have Tywin leave Harrenhal for the west, get held up in the Riverlands by Edmure not following orders correctly, the delaying causing them to get word of Stannis' attack in time to make for the south. That sequence of events is a massive event in the war, and given what we've seen of the war at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we just see Tywin leaving Harrenhal next episode making for Kings Landing, which would basically make everything that Robb's done this season irrelevant to begin with.
Wow, sorry that is a rant and a half. I really like the adaption of this show, and most differences I am okay with and often times quite like, but the stuff above is stuff that really shouldn't have been cut from the show.
Also, as with everyone else here it seems, I'm not really sure what they're doing with Jon, but I'm going to wait and see how it plays out before judging the arc.
One last thing...
The show needs more of this. Remind us of the world that they're in, even if it's just simple panning shots like the one above.
Yes. I wasn't a huge fan of Nutter's directing, but this episode had some great establishing shots. (this one above, the Harrenhal one, Robb's camp)
Also, Alan Taylor is back behind the camera for the next episode, so I'm very excited for that. Speaking of which, is it pretty much a given that Taylor won't direct any season 3 eps because of Thor 2? That's a pretty big blow.
There are other constraints when making a tv show besides budget. You can't have major charcters disappear for entire seasons if you want to keep the actor. They had to work Tywin into this season somehow, and it ended up being at the expense of Arya's story. But at least the scenes are good! The vast majority of the changes can be explained by practical contraints, directly or indirectly. This does somewhat backup my point that I thinks it's a fools errand trying to do justice to the books beyond AGoT. The changes which piss me off the most are the ones where it comes off like the writer just didn't understand the source material: Jaime in this ep.
For Jon's plotline *ACOK*
I don't want to come off as arrogant only to be proven wrong next sunday, but it seems obvious to me that Jon will escape from the Wildlings next week and either meet up with Qhorin then or in the finale, after which they will be caught together and things will play out like in the book. Episode 9 likely won't have any Jon material.
I don't get this concern at all. The only thing that Jon's story is really missing here is him coming across the vast Wildling forces + skinchanging with Ghost. And for all I know they'll still get that Ghost moment in. Yes, Jon's story this season lacks much of the gravitas that it had in the books, but it's clear that they didn't have time (even if they cut all the sex scenes!) to do all of what Jon does in book 2. And it's pretty absurd to assume "they're not going to do the ending right" when there are still three episodes to go.
I don't get this concern at all. The only thing that Jon's story is really missing here is him coming across the vast Wildling forces + skinchanging with Ghost. And for all I know they'll still get that Ghost moment in. Yes, Jon's story this season lacks much of the gravitas that it had in the books, but it's clear that they didn't have time (even if they cut all the sex scenes!) to do all of what Jon does in book 2. And it's pretty absurd to assume "they're not going to do the ending right" when there are still three episodes to go.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
He'll direct one episode.
I'd just like to point out that making an entire season about battling and strategizing is tiresome, not to mention expensive.
Shows need off-the-wall, funny stuff.
Tyrion slapping Joffrey around presents the viewer with a bright spot in the dark place that is King's Landing.
Just having unlikeable characters plot to do things to other unlikeable characters makes for a pretty dull show.
Shows need off-the-wall, funny stuff.
Tyrion slapping Joffrey around presents the viewer with a bright spot in the dark place that is King's Landing.
Just having unlikeable characters plot to do things to other unlikeable characters makes for a pretty dull show.
After this last episode I have no more hopes of the show redeeming itself. The showrunners fail to understand the most basic elements of the novel and at this point are not only cutting things for budgetary reasons, but to give screentime to cliched or poorly thought-out crap that they make up or isn't necessary.
The protagonist of the book is Tyrion. This is HIS book, and it's his moment in the spotlight. We are given no hint throughout the season that he has a master plan in mind, or that he's using his position as hand to influence absolutely anything. But oh look, he slaps Joffrey again! The viewers will eat that up. Almost the entire novel is spent with him making preparations for the defense of the city. This makes Stannis a significant threat. We've gone two episodes now without Stannis. Will we go a third? By the time anything happens viewers probably won't even remember who the guy is.
Jaime killing his cousin is one of the worse liberties the show has taken with anything yet. I mean really, is it that difficult for him to ask his cousin to pretend he's dead? It's really necessary to kill him in cold blood like this? If he doesn't want him escaping with him he can just leave him chained up. This is just cheap shock value at the expense of an entire character. Furthermore, you're telling me they HAD to put the cousin in this cage, they couldn't have tied him up on a pole anywhere? Jesus.
The Arya and Tywin scenes are HORRIBLE. They're dehumanizing Jaime while humanizing Tywin. Why??? And Arya should be in Harrenhal fearing for her life, living in hopeless misery every day. The novel was painful to read with all the suffering she went through, and the hatred she harbors, but this is what gives her fortitude and creates her arc. I just don't understand why there's a need to make her look cozy and comfortable. Instead of spending 15 interminable minutes with Jaime and his cousin, why don't we get a simple scene of her breaking down in private or something? I mean come on, we're not even talking budget right now.
Here's a simple way to establish in 3 minutes what they haven't managed to do in 7 episodes, just by trimming the Jaime scene or getting rid of one of the 5 scenes with Jon which were all about the same thing anyway. Instead of shitting up the one-minute reveal of Bran and Rickon's bodies with an amateurish fade to black and Theon looking at what I can only suppose was a coin on the ground, why don't we have a foreboding piece of music come up, and in silent montage style, just a few establishing shots of some characters: Sansa crying over some bloody bed sheets, Arya hugging herself to sleep, Stannis brooding over his map, Cat looking over Ned's bones and sending them to Winterfell. Maybe it's not in the general style we've seen up till now, but one of the big things for me that the show is doing wrong (aside from all this, which will be labeled as nerd nitpicking by people who fail to see most of these are legitimate complaints about what ultimately amounts to making effective character and plot arcs) is the pedestrian way it is filmed and edited together. We have almost constant static shots and very basic edits that just cut back from one character to another, with no creativity to ANY of it, and a soundtrack that creeps in robotically on cue whenever a scene is reaching its climax. Why don't we get more scenes like when Theon arrived on Pyke, something with sweeping music, maybe a theme or two that can be orchestrated in a very subdued way during calm scenes so as to not call attention to itself? There are just so many ways this could be more cinematically presented.
is going to be a travesty. I feel it in my bones.Episode 9
Two really good posts. I agree with everything you two said, but I still love the show and I'm not as criticial. I definitely don't think it (this last episode or the entire season) is a "crock of shit" or "a travesty." It's disappointing given how well they were able to represent the story of AGOT into that first season. The small run of episodes is killing the story this time around. You're both right regarding ACOK being Tyrion's moment of glory. It's something that is so obvious in that book, but on the show I have no sense that he's done much to protect that city. Where the fuck is
the chain?
Also agree with the direction being bad. Look at the Hound's hand in this gif:
A problem with this thead... If you've read the books you can't make ANY criticism comparing the two without the usual suspects making a snide remark or exagerrating how you're criticizing the show.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This is inane, really. The non-book readers are not ruining anything for you, and it's your fault for not being capable of understanding the fundamental differences between the media, not the non-book readers for being too dumb to go read the books. If that argument made any sense at all the TV series would literally have no reason to exist since only book readers would watch it.
Steelyuhas
Member
Better than none I guess. I assume as a co-executive producer of the show, he'll still be involved as much as his schedule allows (not sure when Thor 2 is set to film).
Also, where the fuck is Ghost lol? So much for the direwolves as being there to protect the Stark children.
Yep.
No books thread.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
All will be forgiven if Ghost arrives at the start of the next episode and kicks him some Wildling ass.
N Coward Parody
Member
I betcha the next episode is gonna spend a fair amount of time focused on Tyrion [ACOK minorish spoilers]
All this kvetching is totally unfounded. They're doing a terrific job with the totally insane task of adapting ACOK into a 10-hour TV season. Simmah down, nerds!
and all the prep he's doing (and has been doing behind the scenes) in anticipation of Stannis' attack. Pretty smart way to handle the adaptation if so rather than spend too much time trickling Tyrion's schemes throughout the season give the viewers a big chunk of Tyrion's "heroism" right before the big battle.
All this kvetching is totally unfounded. They're doing a terrific job with the totally insane task of adapting ACOK into a 10-hour TV season. Simmah down, nerds!
Steelyuhas
Member
That would be badass.
This show has murdered and beaten enough children. This is not fun to watch. This little girl saw (or saw part of) her father being executed. She deserves to have some good times. Her being right under the big guy's nose is interesting for the viewer, not the book reader.
As it should be. In a book, you have the time (in terms of pages) to make characters go from boys to heroic warriors. From cowards to killers. In this season, there are 10 episodes and no one wants to see battle after battle. Anyone who watches the show knows soldiers are fighting in the background.
I should hope not. If a character made a giant change to get from point A to point B just because the book decided he should, I would be disappointed.
In the show, Jon is as dumb as a box of rocks. The place he's been put requires that he be only so smart.
I imagine this show's creators constructing a building that takes a new shape every time they add a floor to it. Then they have to deal with that new building alongside satisfying book points.
Emerson
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While there are those who reasonably criticize some of the changes for being objectively bad, we get exponentially more people just generally whining and arguing that any change is inherently bad by virtue of being different. You cannot judge the quality of plot differences based on an assumption you make about the future.
If we look back at the end of this season and say, "Man, that stuff with Jon Snow made no sense" then fine. But what we actually have are people whining because the plot changes don't seem to mesh with the future scenes that have not yet nor may never air in the first place.
If that is what fostering discussion is, then you're free to say I'm not open to it.
I don't think that scene is a good indicator, or that any one actor deserves the blame. The whole scene was shot, edited, and executed poorly, so every actor came out looking awkward and the succession of moments felt strange overall. People barely reacting when the shadow crept into the room, took shape, and even less reaction when it stabbed him immediately.
Rewatching that scene makes me cringe.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
This post proves that a lot of you are in denial. That's what the series is. Dark, gritty fantasy.
Emerson
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What do you want? Do you want a show that exists for a year or two and then disappears forever or one that makes some concessions and has a chance of seeing completion?
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