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[Yamauchi]

de Volkskrant keeping it classy.



I find repugnant that cartoons such as that one or this one



(or the ones with the Germans being portrayed as nazis) are shaping the popular opinion on the crisis. It's fucking vile and destructive.

Wow, those are horrible. Talk about a vicious and vile propaganda campaign.

 

[Coriolanus]

Someone has to ask the Greeks if they're okay with regular pâté instead of foie gras in their food aid packages.

The truly harsh part is the ostrich in cranberry sauce.

 

[nature boy]

Less terrible than the rest =/= favorable.

This is clearly a problem of expectations then.

 

[chadskin]

Greece seeking interim funding solution for July - official

Greece is asking its euro zone partners for an interim solution to its funding needs that would cover the rest of July while a long-term deal is sought, a Greek government official said on Monday.

"The proposal of the Greek side is for a settlement until the end of the month ... in order to prepare the big, viable deal during this brief period," the official said.

via Reuters

 

[Theonik]

via Reuters

…

 

[ElTorro]

via Reuters

In other news: finance ministers of the Eurozone request emergency funding to cover all the travel costs to the countless productive and well prepared Euro summits in Brussels.

 

[Theonik]

In other news: finance ministers of the Eurozone request emergency funding to cover all the travel costs to the countless productive and well prepared Euro summits in Brussels.

I dunno, I wouldn't mind free vacations.

 

[Aon]

I dunno, I wouldn't mind free vacations.

I mightn't be so keen if I had to listen to the EU/Greek finance ministers bicker for 6 hours every day.

Hope some emergency funding is freed up to help yall in Greece soon, day to day existence sounds pretty gnarly.

 

[chadskin]

Euro zone finance ministers are open to the idea of "reprofiling" some of Greece's sovereign debt, but details of any new bailout would need to be in place by next Monday, Ireland's finance minister said.

"There was a general sense that reprofiling of debt would be acceptable ... doing the kind of things we did in Ireland, extending maturities, cutting interest rates," Michael Noonan told Irish state broadcaster RTE after a meeting of finance ministers in Brussels on Tuesday. "We have a normal July meeting next Monday and I think the main elements of a deal need to be in place by then," he said.

via Reuters

Doesn't sound like there's going to be a debt relief but rather a debt restructuring of sorts.

 

[Coriolanus]

I mightn't be so keen if I had to listen to the EU/Greek finance ministers bicker for 6 hours every day.

Hope some emergency funding is freed up to help yall in Greece soon, day to day existence sounds pretty gnarly.

There was a guardian report once explaining the badge system those guys use, the floors they have access to and the kinda food they get. Wasn't even remotely a terrible deal.

 

[Locke Lamora]

Raoul Ruparel
‏@RaoulRuparel
Interesting if its an EU summit not Euro summit seems far more likely to be about #Grexit
https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel/status/618471709771976704

Let the speculations begin!

 

[Operations]

Well, somehow the Greek government fucked it up even more:

The lack of a new plan shocked the assembled finance ministers and angered several, officials said. Their meeting was supposed to set the parameters of a make-or-break summit of eurozone leaders on Tuesday evening.
As the meeting drew to an end, officials said Athens had decided to speed up its plans and present a new proposal for a bailout from the eurozone’s €500bn rescue fund by Tuesday evening.

But Greece’s new finance minister Euclid Tsakalotos turned up with no written proposal. Instead, he outlined verbally what a Greek official said was the same plan Athens submitted to its creditors on June 30.

But his position was dismissed out of hand by Alex Stubb, the Finnish finance minister.
“We are not willing to ease Greece’s debt burden,” Mr Stubb said. “The door [to] negotiation remains open but at the same time that door is conditional. We need to see some political will, a change on the part of the Greek government, for this to work.”

 

[ElTorro]

And another one from Reuters on the next steps.

Eurozone summit possible on Sunday to back plan for Greece-sources

Euro zone leaders could hold a further emergency summit on Sunday to approve a plan to aid Greece if creditor institutions are satisfied with a Greek loan application and reform plan, two senior EU sources said.

The leaders were meeting on Tuesday evening in Brussels.

Greece is expected to submit within hours a formal request for a medium-term assistance program from the European Stability Mechanism rescue fund and euro zone finance ministers have said they will hold a conference call in Wednesday morning to consider that request.

In parallel, the sources said Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras was expected to put forward a reform plan to make Greek public finances sustainable that would entail prior actions to be put into law in Greece before the next emergency summit.

 

[sflufan]

The change in Greek finance ministers is definitely a case of "be careful what you wish for..." for the creditors.

They've essentially gone from a pro-European project, Keynesian true believer in Varoufakis to a member of Syrzia's Marxist wing in Tsakalotos.

 

[Coriolanus]

Alexis Tsipras is said to be laying out his position to the summit now, reports Ian Traynor in Brussels.

Donald Tusk will then ask ECB president Mario Draghi, EC president Jean-Claude Juncker, and Eurogroup president Jeroen Dijsselbloem for their views.

Draghi is expected to dwell on capital controls and the dire condition of the Greek banks, Dijsselbloem is to brief on this afternoon’s eurogroup meeting. Juncker’s contribution is less than clear.

These expositions are likely to be followed by a broader exchange on the feasibility of a new longer-term ESM bailout, the conditionality [the reforms Greece would commit to], the deadlines. Basically, by the end of the evening, they should have decided whether the eurozone and Greece should open a new negotiation. This, from EU sources, is perhaps the upbeat narrative.

The more depressing scenario circulating is of another summit on Sunday, but not of the eurozone but of all 28 leaders, a full EU summit. If that transpires, the meat of the meeting is Grexit.

If a tentative accord to proceed with the ESM option is not looking good by the weekend, The Full Monty of Grexit becomes the dominant narrative, with Draghi throwing up his hands, saying he can’t do any more and the Greek banks collapsing.

aaand sorta related

Zeke Turner
✔
@zekeft

At #Greece summit now, European leaders are eating: vichyssoise soup, cod fillet w anchovy butter, chocolate mousse on a biscuit base, moka

 

[LJ11]

When are they scheduled to take a shit?

 

[Savitar]

So would this be considered a Greek tragedy or a Greek comedy at this point?

 

[PJV3]

Anchovy butter?
That sounds like continental muck to me.

 

[cyberheater]

But his position was dismissed out of hand by Alex Stubb, the Finnish finance minister.
“We are not willing to ease Greece’s debt burden,” Mr Stubb said. “The door [to] negotiation remains open but at the same time that door is conditional. We need to see some political will, a change on the part of the Greek government, for this to work.”

But didn't Greece just vote not to accept the new deal. It sounds like the Eurozone is saying take it or leave it and if that's the case. How can the PM go against the will of the Greek people.

 

[chadskin]

SpiegelPeter: I'm now told that, after not arriving with written proposals at #eurogroup, #Greece delegation has sent #ESM request letter.

https://twitter.com/spiegelpeter/status/618485891686887424

 

[SymbiantXenos]

https://twitter.com/spiegelpeter/status/618485891686887424

Sorry we forgot our proposal but money plz!!.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I think the Eurozone finance ministers should just all move in together, Big Brother style.

 

[Coriolanus]

I think the Eurozone finance ministers should just all move in together, Big Brother Thunderdome style.

better.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

https://twitter.com/spiegelpeter/status/618485891686887424

I guess they want an extension so they can have a non-express negotiation that would let them vulnerable for whatever desires of the FMin and the EU.

 

[oti]

Come on Tsakalotos, tsaka tsaka!

 

[Ether_Snake]

Everyone is being a bit hasty here with hhe "no proposal! Headless chicken!", coming with a proposal right after the referendum would have killed the proposal right away. They had to meet first, it only makes sense if you understand the political implications.

 

[ElTorro]

Everyone is being a bit hasty here with hhe "no proposal! Headless chicken!", coming with a proposal right after the referendum would have killed the proposal right away. They had to meet first, it only makes sense if you understand the political implications.

What?

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Everyone is being a bit hasty here with hhe "no proposal! Headless chicken!", coming with a proposal right after the referendum would have killed the proposal right away. They had to meet first, it only makes sense if you understand the political implications.

Sign a deal within 48 hours
Banks to reopen Tuesday.

All said would happen with a strong NO vote.

Yet it hasn't.

 

[Xando]

Everyone is being a bit hasty here with hhe "no proposal! Headless chicken!", coming with a proposal right after the referendum would have killed the proposal right away. They had to meet first, it only makes sense if you understand the political implications.

It's the 10th meeting about Greece in the last month, i think we are well past "they had to meet first". Greece goverment had the complete last week to design proposals instead they just say "who cares we bring our proposals tomorrow but it would be really nice if you could approve a bridgeloan so we can waste some more time".

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

What?

Sign a deal within 48 hours
Banks to reopen Tuesday.

All said would happen with a strong NO vote.

Yet it hasn't.

Mindgames.

If they went right now with a proposal, it could be easily ignored by the EU and forced to sign whatever they want, seeing the deadline for Greek banks is basically tomorrow. IMO.

Either that or they have internal turmoil that is affecting to draw a proposal. Kinda doubt that though.

 

[MonorailCat]

So, Greece's new proposal:

1) More ESM money pls!
2) Until we get ESM money, please more bridge money.

 

[Savitar]

Mindgames.

If they went right now with a proposal, it could be easily ignored by the EU and forced to sign whatever they want, seeing the deadline for Greek banks is basically tomorrow. IMO.

Either that or they have internal turmoil that is affecting to draw a proposal. Kinda doubt that though.

Since this mess began I got the impression Greece has basically thought that the Euro nations would buckle and come to them with a proposal that would fix their woes instead of coming up with with one themselves.

Basically they bluffed.

They got nothing.

 

[Coriolanus]

So, Greece's new proposal:

1) More ESM money pls!
2) Until we get ESM money, please more bridge money.

Alternatively:

3) Look, guys. We doing everything humanly possible to force y'all to tell us to get fucked. Could you please get on with it already?

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Mindgames.

If they went right now with a proposal, it could be easily ignored by the EU and forced to sign whatever they want, seeing the deadline for Greek banks is basically tomorrow. IMO.

Either that or they have internal turmoil that is affecting to draw a proposal. Kinda doubt that though.

Mind games, because that's what the Greek people need at this time.

 

[cyberheater]

Alternatively:

3) Look, guys. We doing everything humanly possible to force y'all to tell us to get fucked. Could you please get on with it already?

Which what I thinks happening. It's impossible to see it any other way at the moment.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Alternatively:

3) Look, guys. We doing everything humanly possible to force y'all to tell us to get fucked. Could you please get on with it already?

At this point is clearly that Greece won't take any just any deal and they prepared to go until the last consequences.

Will the EU do it?

Mind games, because that's what the Greek people need at this time.

They didn't voted no, to get the same deal 3 days after, I'm sure.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Which what I thinks happening. It's impossible to see it any other way at the moment.

We'll know one way or another by the end of today. I don't believe for a moment suggestions that there could be negotiations until Sunday on the basis of bridge money, it isn't happening.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Alternatively:

3) Look, guys. We doing everything humanly possible to force y'all to tell us to get fucked. Could you please get on with it already?

Majority of Greece wants to stay in the eu and euro though.

 

[KingSnake]

All the statements made around these meetings are political statements meant to push the balance of negotiations one way or another. Everything is a leverage. Making the others sounding like the bad guys or plain stupid is the key to these statements. Because in the end it's more important how well you comply to the local expectations in your country than to find a solution. All this bombardment of information from both sides it's so damn stupid. Like they are there not to find a solution or make a decision, they are there to appear on the news and score electoral points. All of them. They should do like with the Pope elections. Lock them in a room and don't let them out until they decide one way or another. This awful spectacle is lame. EU is functionally dead.

 

[Coriolanus]

Majority of Greece wants to stay in the eu and euro though.

Yes, but they also kinda did just tell their creditors to #getfucked.

It's complicated.

Hence syriza forcing the creditors to do the same to them.

12th dimension hyperchess

 

[EloKa]

there is this theory than Greece went to Brussel without a proposal because they wanted to ask first if their specific points have a chance to get accepted. If (!) they manage to get a proposal done someday / somewhat based on those vague answers:

• and this proposal is denied -> blame all fault on the EU.
• if its accepted act like a mighty hero who saved a nation.

This is not an approach to solve the problems or help the greece population but mostly some kind of "well we got fucked over, but at least it was not our fault! I swear!" thing. There should be another refenderum in regards of distrust against the greeks representatives.

 

[Osiris]

Yes, but they also kinda did just tell their creditors to #getfucked.

It's complicated.

Hence syriza forcing the creditors to do the same to them.

12th dimension hyperchess

It's not n-dimensional chess, it's checkers and Greece are just running around, delaying the inevitable loss with one piece on the board, and are trying to get the rules changed mid-game.

 

[Theonik]

Interesting bit of Trivia I was informed of earlier. Tsipras named his two sons Ernesto and Fidel.

 

[Coriolanus]

This is not an approach to solve the problems or help the greece population but mostly some kind of "well we got fucked over, but at least it was not our fault! I swear!" thing. There should be another refenderum in regards of distrust against the greeks representatives.

Think we got some greek posters saying that Tsipras still is the most populest guy in the country. Wouldn't go well for foreign entities if true.

It's not n-dimensional chess, it's checkers and Greece are just running around, delaying the inevitable loss with one piece on the board, and are trying to get the rules changed mid-game.

That's what they want you to think!

 

[ElTorro]

They should stop wasting time discussing non-existing proposals and start organizing the delivery of medical supplies and other basic necessities to Greece.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

It's not n-dimensional chess, it's checkers and Greece are just running around, delaying the inevitable loss with one piece on the board, and are trying to get the rules changed mid-game.

This would be checkers if the last piece was able to detonate itself killing everyone in the table.

Greece are willing to go default and exit the EU and the Euro. Is the EU willing to take the fatal damage that would imply for the institution and the euro?

 

[petran79]

de Volkskrant keeping it classy.

I find repugnant that cartoons such as that one or this one

(or the ones with the Germans being portrayed as nazis) are shaping the popular opinion on the crisis. It's fucking vile and destructive.

Greeks know how to make satire about themselves much better!

https://youtu.be/Fp3NNeofedM?t=1154

 

[Deleted member 231381]

They should stop wasting time discussing non-existing proposals and start organizing the delivery of medical supplies and other basic necessities to Greece.

That's what Sunday is for.

 

[Wiktor]

So would this be considered a Greek tragedy or a Greek comedy at this point?

I wanted to say it's tragicomedy, but then remembered those are supposed to get happy endings.

 

[Joni]

The change in Greek finance ministers is definitely a case of "be careful what you wish for..." for the creditors. They've essentially gone from a pro-European project, Keynesian true believer in Varoufakis to a member of Syrzia's Marxist wing in Tsakalotos.

He has been at the table for months now, he is not new. They liked him, they could talk with him. Varoufakis went on long anti-austerity rants, Euclid put in work. Don't think Tsipiras would have gambled on Euclid if he was as disliked as Varoufakis.

Everyone is being a bit hasty here with hhe "no proposal! Headless chicken!", coming with a proposal right after the referendum would have killed the proposal right away. They had to meet first, it only makes sense if you understand the political implications.

With the small problem almost every European leader said last week: okay Greece, bring back your proposal after your referendum.