Support NeoGAF

[Village]

Wait masculinity being associated with the male gender is fucked up?
If THIS is the problem, well then there is absolutely nothing I can say that I didn't already say in my first post.

In social aspects used to justify the exclusion of a group of people.

Yes,

Being used to identify, physical traits.

No.

If for some reason having a penis and broad shoulders is important in GTA fine, but if 4 and SA are any indicator. It isn't really.

 

[rjinaz]

It's definitely tougher to write a game in which gendered dialogue can be flipped around, but SR3 has been brought up and I don't think it's that big of a difference from GTA despite the antics. As far as more interesting ways to do it, if there are three characters being explored it might have been neat to have one of them be a women dealing with the same issues as the others, just to see how it would change and how they would be treated differently.

Well given the open-world nature of the game, I'm sure you're right. They could have pulled it off if they wanted to like other simliar games have. I guess they just didn't want to.

 

[deli2000]

They call GTA games "open world" games.

In an open world, I should be able to dress however I like. I should be able to cut my hair however I like. I should be able to fuck anyone I like. And I should even be able to change my gender.

If you remove all that, because of "reasons", then don't call it open world. Simple as that.



Sounds like GTA IV. "Beat this mission in exactly this way. You can't beat this mission any other way, because the story writer wanted you to complete it exactly this way."

Why the hell should I not be able to change outfits? Why shouldn't I be able to undress the playable character and run around on the street naked? Because "those characters wouldn't do this"? fuck those characters and fuck that game then. I don't want to play as a specific type of character, I want to play however I like. I want to be able to finish missions however I like.

"And also, you should win things by watching!"

 

[Scooter]

You seem pretty outraged by Karkador. (See how that works?)

No I don't see how that works because your comparison is silly. Getting offended every day in this forum by frivolous shit like Karkador does is not the same as getting offended because someone is accusing you of supporting sexual harassment.

It's a prime example btw what a bunch of hypocrites many feminists are. They get offended by everything and anything yet they think they have the right to accuse people of all kind of offensive shit like supporting rape culture, sexual harassment and being sexist. And for the record I think the term rape culture is highly offensive and makes light of rape the way is overused by feminists.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If Houser wants to write a movie with "characters", then he should just simply write a fucking movie.

The fact that Dan is responsible for the biggest series in gaming and they've done that with characters that are set with a specific look shows that he's doing something right. So, he certainly doesn't need to change what he's doing.

 

[jimi_dini]

Well this is where we disagree.
I play Sleeping Dogs and i don't think you should be able to dress Wei as a giant rabbit (unless it's an easter egg ironic thing).

It seems the developers of Sleeping Dogs disagree with you.
Not a rabbit, but a pig.

And like I said a thousand times - it's optional. YOU won't be affected by options. You can play as Wei Shen in the default outfit. But don't argue against customizations. Noone is forcing you to use them.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

I don't see a big difference between a changeable gender and complete customer customization.

Remember GTA:SA, where you could eat so much that CJ got really really fat? As if this wasn't fun. And having a fully customized character is even more of that. They could have put CJ in there as default, but when are options a bad thing?

Because I could have beaten San Andreas using a fat, black, bi-sexual lady with a pink afro and "ruined" the story for me personally? Why the fuck not? If you care about that, just play using the default CJ. Problem solved.

I agree that in most games, there probably should be customisable characters because other than being the chosen one, it doesn't really have any bearing on the story.

That said, if you're trying to tell a story where the character's race, gender or background influence it in a meaningful way, then the designer should lock down those traits. I think San Andreas actually did it perfectly, it presented you with a character who had a defined past that was out of the player's control. Once the character was in the player's control it let you his physical appearance within the confines of the story they're trying to tell. Weight and hairstyle aren't things that'd have an explicit effect on CJ's story while him having a sex change would change it radically. GTA V seems to be doing the same kind of thing.

If the designer has a story to tell then they should to tell it regardless of whether the player cares or not. To make the most abrasive comparison, if there was a mad lib to describe Tom Robinson at the start of To Kill a Mocking Bird, it'd completely ruin what Harper Lee intended to tell. Just because games allow for player input, it doesn't mean "the player is always right".

 

[Zen_Arcade]

" The reason why you can have girls, is because masculinity, because that's a thing only guys can have right?"

dunno sounds fucked up to me. Dude needs media training,

mas·cu·line
1 a : male having qualities appropriate to or usually associated with a man 

2 : of, relating to, or constituting the gender that ordinarily includes most words or grammatical forms referring to males

He's obviously stating that in this story there will be a conflict of what makes a man (Mainly because when someone states that masculinity is a factor in something, it's usually in a sense of challenging a character and how his masculinity is seen by the society around him). This cannot be explored with a female protagonist because the standards of masculinity are not the same as they are with a male lead.

The entire context and situation of the story could possibly be entirely shifted by making a female the lead. He's saying that in this particular story the characters need to be male because it will explore masculinity and it's societal effect on the standards males are held up to when trying to meet those standards.

Now, I don't think R* will pull it off because I've never been very impressed by their storytelling or character building, but to say that it's fucked up that a story about how a man has to deal with standards and social impressions of masculinity needed to be played by a male character really is stretching for something to be offended over.

You could ask why they're so gung-ho about the subject they're tackling and why they don't feel the need to expand their horizons and tell a story from a female perspective. That would be a perfectly valid criticism. But to sit there and claim that a story about masculinity wouldn't be completely shifted by swapping out a male for a female is ridiculous.

The standards and expectations of masculinity of a female is completely different from that of a man, and the story would be completely different if the subject was tackled that way. Its not as simple as just switching out the gender of the character if you really are trying to tell a nuanced story. And to say that it's a fucked up statement to make is just silly.

 

[Karkador]

No I don't see how that works because your comparison is silly. Getting offended every day in this forum by frivolous shit like Karkador does is not the same as getting offended because someone is accusing you of supporting sexual harassment.

It's a prime example btw what a bunch of hypocrites many feminists are. They get offended by everything and anything yet they think they have the right to accuse people of all kind of offensive shit like supporting rape culture, sexual harassment and being sexist. And for the record I think the term rape culture is highly offensive and makes light of rape the way is overused by feminists.

calm down. your outrage is showing. also, stop speaking for me. also, i saw where you edited out calling me "some radical".

 

[aly]

Apparently, only men can be masculine, according to Rockstar. Lucky you can play a female PC in GTAO, but yeah.

I know nothing about the story, but you can make one about masculinity and the effect is has on men. I don't think they said women couldn't be masculine.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Sounds like Focus Testing to me.

 

[Tacitus_]

Not that I mind single sex PCs, but that's a really weird reason from Rockstar.

 

[Salex]

Holy shit another one of these threads. Wasn't there 5 of them in the last 2 days ago? It never comes to a conclusion.

 

[Pau]

No I don't see how that works because your comparison is silly. Getting offended every day in this forum by frivolous shit like Karkador does is not the same as getting offended because an radical is accusing you of supporting sexual harassment.

It's a prime example btw what a bunch of hypocrites many feminists are. They get offended by everything and anything yet they think they have the right to accuse people of all kind of offensive shit like supporting rape culture, sexual harassment and being sexist. And for the record I think the term rape culture is highly offensive and makes light of rape the way is overused by feminists.

I sent you a PM because this isn't really relevant to the thread.

 

[richiek]

No I don't see how that works because your comparison is silly. Getting offended every day in this forum by frivolous shit like Karkador does is not the same as getting offended because someone is accusing you of supporting sexual harassment.

It's a prime example btw what a bunch of hypocrites many feminists are. They get offended by everything and anything yet they think they have the right to accuse people of all kind of offensive shit like supporting rape culture, sexual harassment and being sexist. And for the record I think the term rape culture is highly offensive and makes light of rape the way is overused by feminists.

Pot...kettle...black. If anything, I'd say there's a fair amount of posters on GAF who are getting outraged and overly defensive when someone is suggesting that GTA feature a female protagonist.

 

[Carcetti]

mas·cu·line
1 a : male having qualities appropriate to or usually associated with a man 

2 : of, relating to, or constituting the gender that ordinarily includes most words or grammatical forms referring to males

He's obviously stating that in this story there will be a conflict of what makes a man (Mainly because when someone states that masculinity is a factor in something, it's usually in a sense of challenging a character and how his masculinity is seen by the society around him). This cannot be explored with a female protagonist because the standards of masculinity are not the same as they are with a male lead.

The entire context and situation of the story could possibly be entirely shifted by making a female the lead. He's saying that in this particular story the characters need to be male because it will explore masculinity and it's societal effect on the standards males are held up to when trying to meet those standards.

Now, I don't think R* will pull it off because I've never been very impressed by their storytelling or character building, but to say that it's fucked up that a story about how a man has to deal with standards and social impressions of masculinity needed to be played by a male character really is stretching for something to be offended over.

You could ask why they're so gung-ho about the subject they're tackling and why they don't feel the need to expand their horizons and tell a story from a female perspective. That would be a perfectly valid criticism. But to sit there and claim that a story about masculinity wouldn't be completely shifted by swapping out a male for a female is ridiculous.

The standards and expectations of masculinity of a female is completely different from that of a man, and the story would be completely different if the subject was tackled that way. Its not as simple as just switching out the gender of the character if you really are trying to tell a nuanced story. And to say that it's a fucked up statement to make is just silly.

While all of that is true, this industry doesn't exactly lack stories about masculinity. Even the games with best, most mature stories in recent memory like The Last of Us and Walking Dead, are mainly about being a man and being a father. That's awesome but makes you wish for some variety.

 

[deli2000]

Sounds like Focus Testing to me.

Apart from the fact that R* is completly against focus testing in games. Yes.

That sort of amorphous 'that won't test well' attitude is exactly how we don't work. We've always tried to think of stuff that's innovative and new, and to go into a world where that's not encouraged would be horrible."

But let's not read. Who needs reading?

 

[Riposte]

Sorry if I'm missing something, but do they mean to say the fourth customizable character for online play can't be female? That's odd, because I'm pretty sure I say female characters you could hire for missions.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sorry if I'm missing something, but do they mean to say the fourth customizable character for online play can't be female? That's odd, because I'm pretty sure I say female characters you could hire for missions.

Yes, you can choose a female character online. Dan is specifically talking about the single player structure in this interview.

 

[Oersted]

So he's wrong because he doesn't want creators to be bullied by feminists to make characters that weren't part of their vision? I am truly flabbergasted by some posts lately, you can't make this shit up.

Bullied? Are you for real?

 

[UrbanRats]

However, considering that people's main objection to a female PC in GTA seems to be "the things you do in GTA are not befitting of a woman", and whether or not you think that's a valid argument or total hogwash, the concept of having 3 distinct playable characters with their own lifestyles/roles/gameplay really should have opened the door wider for one of those characters to be a woman, and it would have made sense to even the naysayers.

I'm not at all against a female PC in GTA, infact, i'd be very interested in playing GTAVI with 3 female characters.

I am however skeptical of the idea of character creation in the singleplayer portion of a GTA game, exactly because i like the more context focused approach they try to have (not always succeeding).

Of course, i can't answer nor i am responsible for other people in the thread who are defending R*ìs move with different arguments than mine.
I can perfectly understand the disappointment and the desire to see a female character, though.

So you are saying that they have had females that can fit one perceptions of " masculine" yes?

Then... why the hell cant I play with them. Because clearly you have just said that they are capable of making women like that, now they have less of an excuse. I am not projecting anything, what is "masculine" is kinda of a vague social concept anyway, unless being physically a man is important to the story for some reason. I doubt it though GTA4 and San Andreas could have played out the same with some gender switches to be quite honest.

Well i'm not native English speaker, so i must go by the definition of masculine that i'm given here, but yes, i would say they have had "masculine" female characters before.

You can't play as one because they obviously started writing this story with a completely different idea in mind.
I doubt gender representation was the primary focus when writing the story.
As i said multiple times in the thread, i think they mention "masculinity" as exploring those elements that males feel like they have to live up to in our society, being tougher than everybody else, being alpha, providing for the family, being on top, and all that bullshit.
I think he's using masculinity with this meaning, but of course it's such a small and contextless quote that it's impossible to say.

Another element that's relevant was his intention to deconstruct the GTA character with these 3, and i've mentioned this previously:

Again, i read so many previews and interviews in the last 2 years that i can't remember where Dan Houser ( i think it was him) hinted at it.

But basically you can see at the three characters as three components of classic GTA characters, a deconstruction of it.

Trevor is the maniac that wreaks havoc without a reason, which is representative of the "open world" aspect you have in GTAs, where the player deviates from the story just to fuck shit up.

Michael is the protagonist of the classic GTAs AFTER a life of crime and having "arrived", but he's not happy with the results (he's the "after").

Franklin is the young up and coming, the classic GTA character that wants to get in on the action and get rich (the "before").

So basically all three are a comment on classic GTA main character tropes.
I find it fascinating.

Again, would it have been cool to have a female character? Yeah, absolutely. I don't think their intentions are, though, as malicious as you made them seem in your previous post.

 

[timetokill]

I'm just glad that Rockstar is finally tackling the concept of masculinity in their games. It's a topic that gone on untouched by them for far too long.

If they can just manage to squeeze in some biting observations on the illusory nature of the American Dream in there too, I think they'll really knock it out of the park.

 

[Mask]

That's a somewhat understandable justification, I guess.

At the end of the day though, GTA V is a story about three people, and what happens to those people. In nearly every GTA game, although you
play as the main character, the other characters you meet are just as, and sometimes, more important than the person you play as. It could even
be that the script writer feels that he may not be able to write a good female lead, either due to lack of experience writing females, or not wanting to
write a stereotypical "females in males clothing" character.

Either way, if GTA 4 is any indication, you'll be able to play as a female in GTA Online, and when they do make a GTA with a female lead, it will
no doubt be equal, or better than the story in GTA V. Hell, there may be a female character in GTA V we haven't seen yet. They did promise surprises.

 

[Scrabble]

Err, where? you do realize the line I quoted about girls pulling people out of cars was sarcasm and quoting someone else, right?



How doesn't it? You do crazy, videogame-esque stuff in those games, and suffer videogame-esque consequences for it. It's a videogame. Please don't bend over backwards to justify why videogame logic doesn't extend to female characters, either.

It was sarcasm to illustrate the idea of a woman not being able to pull a man out of a car as being silly, but you already knew that and now your just trying to fall back on your previous statement.

And I already addressed your second paragraph in my first response

And before you make the argument "well gee I'm pretty sure men can't absorb bullets and perform other ridiculous video game feats", I know that, and I will equally argue that video games should address those issues as well. A 60+ year old man should have difficulty free running rooftops, an overweight character should have his/her own physical limitations, and so on.

So how about you quit glossing over criticism and playing dumb just so you can ignore others opinions and attempt to misconstrue them. If you want video games to continue to have crazy video game logic and ignore reality than that's fine, but don't right before that play the "women most certainly can pull a man out of a car or perform other male feats" angle and attempt to use both arguments.

 

[Cartman86]

Fine but do you really think you have something new to say about masculinity in a video game? If it isn't "I don't have to an anti social monster" and the game ends it will be pretty standard GTA/videogame. Plus masculine does not equal male sex.

 

[Endo Punk]

Well at least Rockstar are being progressive in MP front by allowing female characters.

 

[Village]

mas·cu·line
1 a : male having qualities appropriate to or usually associated with a man 

2 : of, relating to, or constituting the gender that ordinarily includes most words or grammatical forms referring to males


The standards and expectations of masculinity of a female is completely different from that of a man, and the story would be completely different if the subject was tackled that way. Its not as simple as just switching out the gender of the character if you really are trying to tell a nuanced story. And to say that it's a fucked up statement to make is just silly.

To the top part, are far as social aspects goes, what is and what isn't is kind of up in the air.

as far as the bolded goes, maybe if GTA finally wanted to tell that nuanced story, they could have tried that. telling that story from a female perspective rather than Not one not two, but three three cleche's. They have shown themselves fully capable of designeiing, not generic "masculine" female characters. Why not go for it? I do not see how masculinity is is automatically assigned to the types of things you do in GTA , besides hit on women. And not even that, since lesbians exists.

 

[UrbanRats]

It seems the developers of Sleeping Dogs disagree with you.
Not a rabbit, but a pig.



And like I said a thousand times - it's optional. YOU won't be affected by options. You can play as Wei Shen in the default outfit. But don't argue against customizations. Noone is forcing you to use them.

I'm not again a bunch of funny shit (which isn't considered canonical), but Sleeping Dogs still mostly keeps it in character.
You can't be a white dude or a latino woman in Sleeping Dogs.

While all of that is true, this industry doesn't exactly lack stories about masculinity. Even the games with best, most mature stories in recent memory like The Last of Us and Walking Dead, are mainly about being a man and being a father. That's awesome but makes you wish for some variety.

That's a fair criticism, i think.

 

[Riposte]

Yes, you can choose a female character online. They's specifically talking about the single player structure.

Huh?

So people are bothered that rockstar didn't decide to use their game as a platform for an issue they didn't promise to take part in? I'm not at all sympathetic to this cause. Seems like the game itself doesn't matter in this case; hardly what I would call worthwhile criticism.

Being able to make female custom characters is good news though. Would have been pretty weird if they didn't have that.

 

[deli2000]

as far as the bolded goes, maybe if GTA finally wanted to tell that nuanced story, they could have tried that. telling that story from a female perspective rather than Not one not two, but three three cleche's. They have shown themselves fully capable of designeiing, not generic "masculine" female characters. Why not go for it? I do not see how masculinity is is automatically assigned to the types of things you do in GTA , besides hit on women. And not even that, since lesbians exists.

This seems like a reasonable criticism.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Apparently, only men can be masculine, according to Rockstar. Lucky you can play a female PC in GTAO, but yeah.

Not what they were implying.

 

[Demon Ice]

You seem pretty outraged by Karkador. (See how that works?)

Mmm no, people are just pointing out how desperately s/he's reaching with the shitty Saints Row comparisons, while deliberately ignoring the fact that Rockstar are more than capable of writing female characters extremely well, and that GTA V is more story oriented than Saints Row.

Also the fact that the player can choose to create a female character for the online portion of the game, but the game's single player story is centered around male characters.

 

[UrbanRats]

Huh?

So people are bothered that rockstar didn't decide to use their game as a platform for an issue they didn't promise to take part in? I'm not at all sympathetic to this cause. Seems like the game itself doesn't matter in this case; hardly what I would call worthwhile criticism.

Being able to make female custom characters is good news though. Would have been pretty weird if they didn't have that.

Eh, their MP component has had that since.. i think GTA4.

EDIT: If we don't consider stuff like Table Tennis.

 

[Black Republican]

A Female PC would probably go down better than having a sole black main character on Gaf atleast

 

[Palette Swap]

I'm just glad that Rockstar is finally tackling the concept of masculinity in their games. It's a topic that gone on untouched by them for far too long.

If they can just manage to squeeze in some biting observations on the illusory nature of the American Dream in there too, I think they'll really knock it out of the park.

This made me laugh. Well played.

 

[ArjanN]

Eh, it's pretty obvious it's really because their audience is very broad and mainstream and mostly dude

Spoiler

bro

s, and the average dude

Spoiler

bro

doesn't like playing as a female character.

The story will be the usual juvenile Rockstar mash-up of movie cliches.

 

[UrbanRats]

/

I'm just glad that Rockstar is finally tackling the concept of masculinity in their games. It's a topic that gone on untouched by them for far too long.

If they can just manage to squeeze in some biting observations on the illusory nature of the American Dream in there too, I think they'll really knock it out of the park.

9/10.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

The next GTA should feature a female protagonist. And be set in Asia.

Yeah and it should be futuristic! And you should be playing as cop!

 

[jimi_dini]

Well at least Rockstar are being progressive in MP front by allowing female characters.

progressive as in doing what 10+ years old games already did?

 

[Karkador]

I'm not at all against a female PC in GTA, infact, i'd be very interested in playing GTAVI with 3 female characters.

I am however skeptical of the idea of character creation in the singleplayer portion of a GTA game, exactly because i like the more context focused approach they try to have (not always succeeding).

Yeah, I'm not arguing for a character creator in GTA, either (unless perhaps they're going to put the work into having multiple dialogue audio tracks like Saints Row 3 did)

Mmm no, people are just pointing out how desperately s/he's reaching with the shitty Saints Row comparisons, while deliberately ignoring the fact that Rockstar are more than capable of writing female characters extremely well, and that GTA V is more story oriented than Saints Row.

Also the fact that the player can choose to create a female character for the online portion of the game, but the game's single player story is centered around male characters.

What am I ignoring? There isn't a single Rockstar game with a female lead. Is that not telling? I really think you're exaggerating that they write female characters "extremely well", especially when they don't even have a game with a female lead to prove it.

I don't see how the SR3 comparisons aren't relevant. They're both story-oriented open-world games about going around causing mayhem, one is just more exaggerated than the other. Now, I'm not saying that GTA needs to be Saints Row, I'm saying that Volition actually did something new in going out of their way to show that you could have a female lead in one of these open world crime games, and it feels very fresh and enjoyable, partially because it's not more of the same that Rockstar is doing.

 

[Pau]

Mmm no, people are just pointing out how desperately s/he's reaching with the shitty Saints Row comparisons, while deliberately ignoring the fact that Rockstar are more than capable of writing female characters extremely well, and that GTA V is more story oriented than Saints Row.

Also the fact that the player can choose to create a female character for the online portion of the game, but the game's single player story is centered around male characters.

I wouldn't say Rockstar is more than capable of writing female characters extremely well. But then again, I don't think Rockstar is particularly talented at writing, well, anything.

Huh?

So people are bothered that rockstar didn't decide to use their game as a platform for an issue they didn't promise to take part in? I'm not at all sympathetic to this cause. Seems like the game itself doesn't matter in this case; hardly what I would call worthwhile criticism.

Being able to make female custom characters is good news though. Would have been pretty weird if they didn't have that.

People were wondering why one of the three story characters wasn't a woman, a journalist asked, Dan gave an answer. People are talking about how the answer might not be satisfactory considering that there are ways to tackle the theme with a female character and that it would be thematically appropriate considering you could then compare that to the two other male character's experience with masculinity. I think that's legitimate criticism. It's not outrage.

 

[Vice]

To the top part, are far as social aspects goes, what is and what isn't is kind of up in the air.

as far as the bolded goes, maybe if GTA finally wanted to tell that nuanced story, they could have tried that. telling that story from a female perspective rather than Not one not two, but three three cleche's. They have shown themselves fully capable of designeiing, not generic "masculine" female characters. Why not go for it? I do not see how masculinity is is automatically assigned to the types of things you do in GTA , besides hit on women. And not even that, since lesbians exists.

It's most likely going to be a story about masculinity among men which is different than masculinity among females. Different social expectations and all that jazz.

 

[deli2000]

A Female PC would probably go down better than having a sole black main character on Gaf atleast

Jesus, looking back at the vitriol in 2004 at the very concept of GTA having a black character is just cringeworthy.

 

[ChimpanzeeThat]

In Doctor Who, when Matt Smith took the role, it was said that Peter Capaldi (who will play the next iteration of the Doctor) was in the running for the role but the writer didn't want to give him the part as he wouldn't have suited the story he wanted to tell, but kept him in mind for later on.

A GTA title featuring a female protagonist is do-able, but it doesn't suit the story Rockstar want to tell with GTA V.

 

[Zaventem]

It seems the developers of Sleeping Dogs disagree with you.
Not a rabbit, but a pig.



And like I said a thousand times - it's optional. YOU won't be affected by options. You can play as Wei Shen in the default outfit. But don't argue against customizations. Noone is forcing you to use them.

Nobody cares how many times you bold options or write it in caps. Why do you "it's optional" people can't get through your head this is what they wanted?

 

[Net_Wrecker]

They call GTA games "open world" games.

In an open world, I should be able to dress however I like. I should be able to cut my hair however I like. I should be able to fuck anyone I like. And I should even be able to change my gender.

If you remove all that, because of "reasons", then don't call it open world. Simple as that.

Sounds like GTA IV. "Beat this mission in exactly this way. You can't beat this mission any other way, because the story writer wanted you to complete it exactly this way."

Why the hell should I not be able to change outfits? Why shouldn't I be able to undress the playable character and run around on the street naked? Because "those characters wouldn't do this"? fuck those characters and fuck that game then. I don't want to play as a specific type of character, I want to play however I like. I want to be able to finish missions however I like.

This logic is crazy. Open world/sandbox is the game's structure, not a strict funnel that dictates what the narrative + characters should or should not be. They clearly still want to tell a very specific story with very specific characters. If you want character creation and random nonsense, Saints Row has that covered. Go play Saints Row. Either that or play GTA Online and skip out on the singleplayer entirely.

 

[Carcetti]

I'm just glad that Rockstar is finally tackling the concept of masculinity in their games. It's a topic that gone on untouched by them for far too long.

If they can just manage to squeeze in some biting observations on the illusory nature of the American Dream in there too, I think they'll really knock it out of the park.

I guess that's what you call an 'ice burn'

 

[Mesoian]

They call GTA games "open world" games.

In an open world, I should be able to dress however I like. I should be able to cut my hair however I like. I should be able to fuck anyone I like. And I should even be able to change my gender.

If you remove all that, because of "reasons", then don't call it open world. Simple as that.

That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Not every game is going to be Saint's Row where the narrative is completely open ended for a user defined PC. Most open world games confine what sort of character you can create, if it allows you to at all. Just Cause 2, arguably the most impressive open world game this generation, doesn't allow any customization at all and the narrative is extremely linear.

Where did you get the idea that an open world game means you have free reign to do whatever you want? That's...simply incorrect.

 

[DangerStepp]

progressive as in doing what 10+ years old games already did?

That's no lady.

 

[leadbelly]

Well, in terms of story telling in games, they are still for the large part imitating movies. This is very true for GTAV where you can even see exactly what movies they got their inspiration from.

This got me wondering. Exactly how many action movies have a female lead? I wonder what the ratio would be. I imagine male leads grossly outnumber female leads.

That said, as others have suggested in this thread, I think it would have been interesting having a character that explored 'masculinity' from a female perspective. I think the juxtaposition would have been interesting. However, what would make that interesting would be the unique way she handled a situation that is in some way in contrast to how the other characters may have handled it. I could understand Houser not wanting to go there.