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[jimi_dini]

I'm arguing against character creation, not female characters.
And i'm saying in comparison to Saint's Row, their activities are much more tied to who the character is and does.

I don't see a big difference between a changeable gender and complete character customization.

Remember GTA:SA, where you could eat so much that CJ got really really fat? As if this wasn't fun. And having a fully customized character is even more of that. They could have put CJ in there as default, but when are options a bad thing?

Because I could have beaten San Andreas using a fat, black, bi-sexual lady with a pink afro and "ruined" the story for me personally? Why the fuck not? If you care about that, just play using the default CJ. Problem solved.

If Houser wants to write a movie with "characters", then he should just simply write a fucking movie.

 

[Angelus Errare]

All of you guys that want to play as women.....go play with a Barbie or something. Maybe that will be fresh and new for you and you can see things from a unique viewpoint or some other nonsense.

The developers are making the game that they want to make. Why force a female lead when it probably doesn't fit in their storyline?

 

[Village]

Why is this even a thing?
I would say I am getting sick at all the complaints over race/gender exclusion in gaming but that's not true. What is true is the fact I don't give a single fuck any more due to the constant petty complaining.
Sadly at one point I did care, it's just the petty attention seeking people complaining have completely drowned out the legitimate complaints. And you know what's worse? Those people using this issue as a platform justifying their attention seeking are far more harmful to their message than those issues they speak against. Some people really need to pick their battles rather than sprinting onto every 'battlefield' with their eyes tightly shut and mouths wide open.

Interesting opinion.

Question. What does any of those hypothetical ( and even then, rare) occurrences have to do with the situation at hand? There isn't any attention seeking, someone who is in charge of GTA , just said some fucked up shit. Bold faced and publicly. what the hell is your point?

 

[Enco]

Consider that all major terror style atrocities are committed by men.

GTA V is a game which allows the character to commit all kinds of terrible deeds.

It is highly unrealistic to expect a woman to wield an assault rifle, rob a bank, and massacre people.

Nooo that's sexist!

/sarcasm

Everything gets people in a rage these days. A male lead? OMG SEXISM! Barbie dolls marketed at girls? OMG SEXISM!! Lara Croft is hot? OMG objectifying women! Lara Croft dies violently? Etc etc

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Everyone praised Them for making Ballard of gay tony! Said it was a big push for gay exposure in mainstream gaming!

 

[Carcetti]

I say let game creators tell the story they want. Should people get upset that they are reading Harry Potter instead of Harriet Potter? Should we demand that J.K. Rowling make two versions of her books?

I mean I do get that women are not well represented in the industry or in games, but I don't think demanding that all video games center around a female character and a male character is the answer.

There have been 15 GTA games if you count the bigger DLC stories Gay Tony and L&D. I guess making one of them about a woman would be demanding that all video games are about girls.

 

[Pau]

Nooo that's sexist!

/sarcasm

Everything gets people in a rage these days. A male lead? OMG SEXISM! Barbie dolls marketed at girls? OMG SEXISM!! Lara Croft is hot? OMG objectifying women! Lara Croft dies violently? Etc etc

Do you have any straw left?

 

[Karkador]

Your the one who attempted to apply real world logic.

Err, where? you do realize the line I quoted about girls pulling people out of cars was sarcasm and quoting someone else, right?

And for a game like GTA rooted in reality the, "lol it's video games" statement doesn't really apply.

How doesn't it? You do crazy, videogame-esque stuff in those games, and suffer videogame-esque consequences for it. It's a videogame. Please don't bend over backwards to justify why videogame logic doesn't extend to female characters, either.

In GTA, who the main character is is going to dictate what activities, missions and gameplay mechanics will be available.
The character and its story drive the whole game.

In Saint's Row anything goes, and although it has some awesome characters, it isn't restricted by a rigid context, because that game is fucking absurd (in a good way, mind you).

I disagree that the story is driven by the main character. In all the GTA games I've played (and I've only skipped the GTA4 expansions), your player character is pretty much an empty vessel and the story and gameplay is driven along by going on missions for (or with) the other characters in the story, who are much more fleshed out and move things along (often while your character just stands there and watches).

This was especially the case in GTA3, where the guy didn't even have a name. But even characters like Tommy and CJ and Niko, they have names and a backstory, but stuff you do in the game seems incongruous with what they're about (trying to start a clean new life, immediately go out and shoot people and cause mayhem)

 

[Village]

Not to mention it ignores that girls actually play video games and might be posting in this very thread! The horror! What are they doing away from their barbies?

Who will cook us the food?

 

[deli2000]

Actually you are, because most games do not have black characters in them. Most heroes are straite men. Your media has presented to you that most if not all protagonists, or heroic roles. Have to be strait white men. So yes, yes you are.


Brought to you by Black and Arabic guy studios.

OK cool. Thanks for telling me how to feel. I'm brainwashed by the media, right. I'm an idiot who gets my moral systems checked by a fucking video game.

cool.

 

[Stet]

I say let game creators tell the story they want. Should people get upset that they are reading Harry Potter instead of Harriet Potter? Should we demand that J.K. Rowling make two versions of her books?

I mean I do get that women are not well represented in the industry or in games, but I don't think demanding that all video games center around a female character and a male character is the answer.

Video gaming is a unique medium though in which you can often customize a character, or in which there are multiple plotlines or endings. It's not unprecedented to have the option available. No-one is suggesting that film and television and literature should have multiple versions available.

 

[rjinaz]

There have been 15 GTA games if you count the bigger DLC stories Gay Tony and L&D. I guess making one of them about a woman would be demanding that all video games are about girls.

Hmm well maybe demanding isn't the right word, more like expecting or wanting. I do get your point, I would even say the change would be nice. But if they want to keep writing about guys in their games, that's their prerogative. Just like it's my prerogative not to buy their games if I am finding them dull for not making changes to keep my attention.

 

[Flatline]

Why is this even a thing?
I would say I am getting sick at all the complaints over race/gender exclusion in gaming but that's not true. What is true is the fact I don't give a single fuck any more due to the constant petty complaining.
Sadly at one point I did care, it's just the petty attention seeking people complaining have completely drowned out the legitimate complaints. And you know what's worse? Those people using this issue as a platform justifying their attention seeking are far more harmful to their message than those issues they speak against. Some people really need to pick their battles rather than sprinting onto every 'battlefield' with their eyes tightly shut and mouths wide open.

Nail meet head. I really can't take any of these people seriously anymore, they've lost any respect I could have had for them and their message.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Interesting opinion.

Question. What does any of those hypothetical ( and even then, rare) occurrences have to do with the situation at hand? There isn't any attention seeking, someone who is in charge of GTA , just said some fucked up shit. Bold faced and publicly. what the hell is your point?

He didn't say anything fucked up.

 

[xxracerxx]

All of you guys that want to play as women.....go play with a Barbie or something.

Tisk tisk, even Conan plays with dolls sometimes.

 

[UrbanRats]

I don't see a big difference between a changeable gender and complete character customization.

Remember GTA:SA, where you could eat so much that CJ got really really fat? As if this wasn't fun. And having a fully customized character is even more of that. They could have put CJ in there as default, but when are options a bad thing?

Because I could have beaten San Andreas using a fat, black, bi-sexual lady with a pink afro and "ruined" the story for me personally? Why the fuck not? If you care about that, just play using the default CJ. Problem solved.

If Houser wants to write a movie with "characters", then he should just simply write a fucking movie.

I think the notion that something is either a movie or a complete contextless mess to be utter bullshit.

You can have a very context driven open world game, and still not want it to be a movie.
I personally enjoy that in GTAV they have 3 characters that follow 3 different styles and you can't put Trevor's outfits on Franklin or Michael, and you can't have Michael dress like Franklin, because they're completely different characters.

I love that, it gives the characters and the world and the story depth, and it enriches my experience when playing.

That said, i also greatly enjoy games where i can create my character and shape the story, but it's a different thing, and i enjoy both.
I don't think one is necessarily superior to the other.

 

[Revven]

Why is this even a thing?
I would say I am getting sick at all the complaints over race/gender exclusion in gaming but that's not true. What is true is the fact I don't give a single fuck any more due to the constant petty complaining.
Sadly at one point I did care, it's just the petty attention seeking people complaining have completely drowned out the legitimate complaints. And you know what's worse? Those people using this issue as a platform justifying their attention seeking are far more harmful to their message than those issues they speak against. Some people really need to pick their battles rather than sprinting onto every 'battlefield' with their eyes tightly shut and mouths wide open.

It's literally beating a dead horse at this point.

 

[BeesEight]

It simply does not reflect reality. So yes, I find it unbelievable for women to commit mass crimes. But whether I find it unbelievable or not does not matter - fact is, women do not commit mass crimes. Mass crimes appear to be exclusively committed by men.

It's true. Women never commit "mass crimes." Thank God Rockstar is preserving realism in their video games.

 

[rjinaz]

Video gaming is a unique medium though in which you can often customize a character, or in which there are multiple plotlines or endings. It's not unprecedented to have the option available. No-one is suggesting that film and television and literature should have multiple versions available.

True, but at the same time, if there is a story there, it may not be so easy to change. A game like fallout 3 where there is no real difference between how a female or male character would interact with the world, I think there should be both sexes because why not? I'll mix it up myself, playing male or female.

This isn't always the case though. Some games are story driven and these kind of changes wouldn't make sense without comprimising the story the creators want to tell.

 

[Geedorah]

She's a big ol' bag 'o' mental.

WOW What an incredible life - I would love to see a big Hollywood-studio bank roll a film on that!!

 

[weevles]

Well, at least there is Saint's Row where you are free to make your avatar as you see fit.

I guess Hauser has posters of Scarface in his crib...

 

[Pau]

Hmm well maybe demanding isn't the right word, more like expecting or wanting. I do get your point, I would even say the change would be nice. But if they want to keep writing about guys in their games, that's their prerogative. Just like it's my prerogative not to buy their games if I am finding them dull for not making changes to keep my attention.

We're not allowed to want certain things anymore? Uh oh. Time to shut down GAF then because half the posts are about how a game didn't reach someone's expectations or match what they wanted.

And yet, the people who get most the most flack for it are those who just say: "Hey, maybe more diversity in characters could be cool?" Somehow that's outrage and just unreasonable to want.

It's literally beating a dead horse at this point.

People will stop having the discussion when the situation changes. You however, are completely free to not post in this thread if you feel that way.

True, but at the same time, if there is a story there, it may not be so easy to change. A game like fallout 3 where there is no real difference between how a female or male character would interact with the world, I think there should be both sexes because why not? I'll mix it up myself, playing male or female.

This isn't always the case though. Some games are story driven and these kind of changes wouldn't make sense without comprimising the story the creators want to tell.

I don't think all video games need to have a character creator. And I don't think anyone's arguing to never have male protagonists again. I just think a lot of times, developers think of male characters as the default and that's a very limiting view to take. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them why they made the decision they made about their character's gender (the same way you'd ask about any of their decisions) and the question might be enough to get them to think about it. From the article, it does sound like at least they didn't give a response that equated to: "Males are the default."

 

[Village]

He didn't say anything fucked up.

" The reason why you can have girls, is because masculinity, because that's a thing only guys can have right?"

dunno sounds fucked up to me. Dude needs media training,

OK cool. Thanks for telling me how to feel. I'm brainwashed by the media, right. I'm an idiot who gets my moral systems checked by a fucking video game.

cool.

While I am not telling you how to feel. Being observant of your media is always a good thing. If you have no issue , its fine.

 

[Stet]

True, but at the same time, if there is a story there, it may not be so easy to change. A game like fallout 3 where there is no real difference between how a female or male character would interact with the world, I think there should be both sexes because why not? I'll mix it up myself, playing male or female.

This isn't always the case though. Some games are story driven and these kind of changes wouldn't make sense without comprimising the story the creators want to tell.

It's definitely tougher to write a game in which gendered dialogue can be flipped around, but SR3 has been brought up and I don't think it's that big of a difference from GTA despite the antics. As far as more interesting ways to do it, if there are three characters being explored it might have been neat to have one of them be a women dealing with the same issues as the others, just to see how it would change and how they would be treated differently.

 

[Pimpbaa]

My Saints Row characters have always been female with figures that put Playboy Playmates to shame and I have never had problems with them not being "masculine" enough.

 

[UrbanRats]

I disagree that the story is driven by the main character. In all the GTA games I've played (and I've only skipped the GTA4 expansions), your player character is pretty much an empty vessel and the story and gameplay is driven along by going on missions for (or with) the other characters in the story, who are much more fleshed out and move things along (often while your character just stands there and watches).

This was especially the case in GTA3, where the guy didn't even have a name. But even characters like Tommy and CJ and Niko, they have names and a backstory, but stuff you do in the game seems incongruous with what they're about (trying to start a clean new life, immediately go out and shoot people and cause mayhem)

I think that was only true of GTA 1 through 3, where they still retained the old style.

From Vice City they started to tie more of the gameplay stuff to the character and its world.
And in GTAV they pushed this further (avoiding some narrative dissonance experienced in previous games) by having three characters doing very different activities from one another.

So Michael will be able to do yoga and will have a tennis court in his villa, while Trevor will do.. whatever someone like him would do (go hunt or something).
And i think the end game for R*, there, is to give a variety of activities while STILL maintaining that sense of context to the character, that sometimes got lost in previous GTAs.

In San Andreas easily the best part of the game was the start (the Los Santos part), where you did stuff that was contextual to the character, compared to all the weird shit that happened later on.

I like that strong sense of place and context, and i wouldn't want them to trade it for character creation.

 

[The Albatross]

THis was part of the excellent interview in the Guardian.

No problem with it given that it serves the story line. GTA protagonists and many of the non-important characters breech stereotypes while still being familar, they usually do an excellent job with their characters. The GTA series has had strong, important female characters that aren't "princesses in a castle" or only "psychotic bitches." GTAV will likely also have very important female characters, who break gaming stereotypes, and who are likeable.

I'm glad that he answered forthright.

I think that was only true of GTA 1 through 3, where they still retained the old style.

From Vice City they started to tie more of the gameplay stuff to the character and its world..

In past GTA's, while the protagonists tie into the story, most of them usually aren't the "story making" characters. Other characters usually tell them to do something for specific reasons, and then they do it, and that's what makes the story. CJ reunites the Grove Street Families, but only because his brother was pushing him to do it. CJ starts a chop shop to launder money and setup a post in San Fierro, but only because his sister pushes him to do it. CJ takes over the casino business in Las Venturas, but only with Woozie and the lawyer behind him. In GTAIV, you don't even know what Niko's motivation is for anything until ~60% through the game... There's hints that there's something more to it, but throughout most of the story, he is pretty much a vehicle for other character's stories.

With V, i think it could be similar. Michael seems to be pulled back into a life of crime (from the last trailer), Trevor seems up to wreck mayhem for anybody's sake, and Franklin seems personally driven to improve his ghetto empire (and perhaps escape the ghetto), but we don't know much else about his motivations yet.

 

[GrumpyOutlander]

How exactly would a game about crime encompass female lead characters? I'm just interested as I have never really seen or read any stories that involved a lead female. They have always been usually good-natured supporting characters such as Heat, Goodfellas, or the Godfather. I think the crime genre lends itself to a masculine perspective.

If GTA V was say Trevor, Franklin, and a female character instead of Michael I'm sure Rockstar could make it a great and interesting story, but I have no idea how that would work.

It would be cool to have a DLC from a female perspective, but I doubt that would happen. At least they have female characters in Multiplayer.

 

[UrbanRats]

" The reason why you can have girls, is because masculinity, because that's a thing only guys can have right?"

dunno sounds fucked up to me. Dude needs media training,

It's only fucked up when you completely change the quote to fit your point of view, but ok.

He said masculinity is important for this story.

The word "masculinity" can be interpreted in several ways and they've had strong "take no shit" female characters before, so i really don't see where you're coming from.

Really, you're projecting a lot of shit, with minimal context here.

 

[rjinaz]

We're not allowed to want certain things anymore? Uh oh. Time to shut down GAF then because half the posts are about how a game didn't reach someone's expectations or match what they wanted.

And yet, the people who get most the most flack for it are those who just say: "Hey, maybe more diversity in characters could be cool?" Somehow that's outrage and just unreasonable to want.


People will stop having the discussion when the situation changes. You however, are completely free to not post in this thread if you feel that way.

I never said that. Of course people can want whatever they want. Why would anybody be opposed to people wanting things? There's a lot of stuff I want in games. But I don't agree with getting mad at the creators over it because they want to tell a story the way they want to tell a story is all I'm saying. If I'm not happy, I don't buy.

Edit: I didn't see your addition at the end. I agree with you completely about that for sure.

 

[Balb]

Not sure why Rockstar isn't given the benefit of the doubt. With games like GTA San Andreas, GTAIV, Red Dead Redemption and Bully they've shown time and time again that they are willing to redefine what a video game protagonist can be. If they decided that their story needs a female PC your better believe they'd pursue that. They take more chances with their big franchises than just about anyone.

 

[jimi_dini]

I think the notion that something is either a movie or a complete contextless mess to be utter bullshit.

They call GTA games "open world" games.

In an open world, I should be able to dress however I like. I should be able to cut my hair however I like. I should be able to fuck anyone I like. And I should even be able to change my gender.

If you remove all that, because of "reasons", then don't call it open world. Simple as that.

You can have a very context driven open world game, and still not want it to be a movie.
I personally enjoy that in GTAV they have 3 characters that follow 3 different styles and you can't put Trevor's outfits on Franklin or Michael, and you can't have Michael dress like Franklin, because they're completely different characters.

Sounds like GTA IV. "Beat this mission in exactly this way. You can't beat this mission any other way, because the story writer wanted you to complete it exactly this way."

Why the hell should I not be able to change outfits? Why shouldn't I be able to undress the playable character and run around on the street naked? Because "those characters wouldn't do this"? fuck those characters and fuck that game then. I don't want to play as a specific type of character, I want to play however I like. I want to be able to finish missions however I like.

 

[daegan]

There have been 15 GTA games if you count the bigger DLC stories Gay Tony and L&D. I guess making one of them about a woman would be demanding that all video games are about girls.

Hit the nail on the head.

I think most people are just interested in seeing where R* would take a playable female character. I have seen very little actual anger from anyone on that side of the argument.

 

[deli2000]

" The reason why you can have girls, is because masculinity, because that's a thing only guys can have right?"

dunno sounds fucked up to me. Dude needs media training,



While I am not telling you how to feel. Being observant of your media is always a good thing. If you have no issue , its fine.

Being observant of media is completely fucking different, than, lets say, taking a quote off an interview, twisting it to meet your point of view, and then accusing R* of feeding the patriarchal system that oppresses women every day, and then saying the very same thing about black people.

For someone who is observant of media, you sure seem to twist words and jump to conclusions just like they do.

Do I want more black people in video games? Of course. Do I feel this is a big problem? Absolutely. Do I post a thread about major blockbusters having balck playable characters? About The Last of Us not having a Black playable character? Heck, even Bioshock Infinite, which has racism as one of it's main themes doesn't have a black playable character. Just like GTA V which is from a developer which satirizes ludicrous ideas of masculinity in almost every game it makes, and has 'The concept of masculinity' as a topic in it's story, doesn't have a female playable character.

Do you why there are no threads about those games? They are judged on their own fucking merit. But apparently for GTA, everyone can judge it before release.

 

[Palette Swap]

How exactly would a game about crime encompass female lead characters? I'm just interested as I have never really seen or read any stories that involved a lead female. They have always been usually good-natured supporting characters such as Heat, Goodfellas, or the Godfather. I think the crime genre lends itself to a masculine perspective.

If GTA V was say Trevor, Franklin, and a female character instead of Michael I'm sure Rockstar could make it a great and interesting story, but I have no idea how that would work.

I guess a Weeds like character would have worked ?

 

[DaBuddaDa]

" The reason why you can have girls, is because masculinity, because that's a thing only guys can have right?"

You're putting quotes around something that isn't a quote, here.

 

[Karkador]

I think that was only true of GTA 1 through 3, where they still retained the old style.

From Vice City they started to tie more of the gameplay stuff to the character and its world.
And in GTAV they pushed this further (avoiding some narrative dissonance experienced in previous games) by having three characters doing very different activities from one another.

So Michael will be able to do yoga and will have a tennis court in his villa, while Trevor will do.. whatever someone like him would do (go hunt or something).
And i think the end game for R*, there, is to give a variety of activities while STILL maintaining that sense of context to the character, that sometimes got lost in previous GTAs.

In San Andreas easily the best part of the game was the start (the Los Santos part), where you did stuff that was contextual to the character, compared to all the weird shit that happened later on.

I like that strong sense of place and context, and i wouldn't want them to trade it for character creation.

And that stuff does sound interesting and, if they pull it off, it will be a improvement for the series. I'm curious to at least try the game out and see how it goes.

However, considering that people's main objection to a female PC in GTA seems to be "the things you do in GTA are not befitting of a woman", and whether or not you think that's a valid argument or total hogwash, the concept of having 3 distinct playable characters with their own lifestyles/roles/gameplay really should have opened the door wider for one of those characters to be a woman, and it would have made sense to even the naysayers.

Why is this even a thing?
I would say I am getting sick at all the complaints over race/gender exclusion in gaming but that's not true. What is true is the fact I don't give a single fuck any more due to the constant petty complaining.
Sadly at one point I did care, it's just the petty attention seeking people complaining have completely drowned out the legitimate complaints. And you know what's worse? Those people using this issue as a platform justifying their attention seeking are far more harmful to their message than those issues they speak against. Some people really need to pick their battles rather than sprinting onto every 'battlefield' with their eyes tightly shut and mouths wide open.

Well, would you care to tell us what/where the legitimate complaints are?

 

[Oersted]

Basically, the Housers saw Goodfellas and are trying to make a game out of that without really understanding what the film was about, just like Red Dead Redemption was the result of grossly misunderstanding The Wild Bunch.



Artist agency is always paramount. If someone doesn't want to write women, that's their prerogative.

We have yet to say one female lead game because of the "pressure". As a matter of fact, we only have stories so far about games not getting greenlight because of a female lead. So if you really think artistic decisions are the driving force in the AAAAAAAAAAAA industry.....

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

There have been 15 GTA games if you count the bigger DLC stories Gay Tony and L&D. I guess making one of them about a woman would be demanding that all video games are about girls.

They don't want to write stories about women, that doesn't mean they are sexist, I mean they wrote about a gay guy they are basically women right? (I am only messing about, before I get my ass banned)

If they included women I bet people would nit pick on every little thing that doesn't conform to the strong female type if they risked making a female the lead. They can't win either way.

 

[Village]

It's only fucked up when you completely change the quote to fit your point of view, but ok.

He said masculinity is important for this story.

The word "masculinity" can be interpreted in several ways and they've had strong "take no shit" female characters before, so i really don't see where you're coming from.

Really, you're projecting a lot of shit, with minimal context here.

So you are saying that they have had females that can fit one perceptions of " masculine" yes?

Then... why the hell cant I play with them. Because clearly you have just said that they are capable of making women like that, now they have less of an excuse. I am not projecting anything, what is "masculine" is kinda of a vague social concept anyway, unless being physically a man is important to the story for some reason. I doubt it though GTA4 and San Andreas could have played out the same with some gender switches to be quite honest.

 

[UrbanRats]

They call GTA games "open world" games.

In an open world, I should be able to dress however I like.

Well this is where we disagree.
I play Sleeping Dogs and i don't think you should be able to dress Wei as a giant rabbit (unless it's an easter egg ironic thing).

You don't like GTA's approach? that's fine with me, i do.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

" The reason why you can have girls, is because masculinity, because that's a thing only guys can have right?"

dunno sounds fucked up to me. Dude needs media training,

Wait masculinity being associated with the male gender is fucked up?
If THIS is the problem, well then there is absolutely nothing I can say that I didn't already say in my first post.

 

[Jacksonlee]

They call GTA games "open world" games.

In an open world, I should be able to dress however I like. I should be able to cut my hair however I like. I should be able to fuck anyone I like. And I should even be able to change my gender.

If you remove all that, because of "reasons", then don't call it open world. Simple as that.



Sounds like GTA IV. "Beat this mission in exactly this way. You can't beat this mission any other way, because the story writer wanted you to complete it exactly this way."

Why the hell should I not be able to change outfits? Why shouldn't I be able to undress the playable character and run around on the street naked? Because "those characters wouldn't do this"? fuck those characters and fuck that game then. I don't want to play as a specific type of character, I want to play however I like. I want to be able to finish missions however I like.

it's a open world game with a story that they want to tell. you don't get to choose.

 

[Azih]

I don't know if Houser would be able to write a good female player character. It's probably best if he continues to play to his strengths.

 

[Pau]

" The reason why you can have girls, is because masculinity, because that's a thing only guys can have right?"

dunno sounds fucked up to me. Dude needs media training,



While I am not telling you how to feel. Being observant of your media is always a good thing. If you have no issue , its fine.

I think it's an answer that comes out of ignorance. Women obviously can have masculine qualities and it's not impossible to tell a story about masculinity through the viewpoint of a female character. But it also would be a different story than one from the viewpoint of a male character. Now, whether the game does a good job of exploring such a theme is something we'll have to find out later.

I never said that. Of course people can want whatever they want. Why would anybody be opposed to people wanting things? There's a lot of stuff I want in games. But I don't agree with getting mad at the creators over it because they want to tell a story the way they want to tell a story is all I'm saying. If I'm not happy, I don't buy.

Edit: I didn't see your addition at the end. I agree with you completely about that for sure.

A lot of the posts in these threads seem to equate wanting things with unreasonable outrage. No one in here is actually mad. At worst, we might be a bit disappointed but hey, it's GAF. I think it's legitimate to have a discussion about what made you not buy a game.

I just don't understand why people want to stifle discussion on a forum of all things. It's not like they're forced to read these threads.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

All of you guys that want to play as women.....go play with a Barbie or something. Maybe that will be fresh and new for you and you can see things from a unique viewpoint or some other nonsense.

The developers are making the game that they want to make. Why force a female lead when it probably doesn't fit in their storyline?

Yea, you tell em! No female gamers allowed in our hobby!

 

[Hot Coldman]

Sure, OK. I buy that. For what it's worth, if Rockstar ever want to go exploring a story of a woman trying to be part of the crime game, I'd probably want a full game's worth of narrative for that theme, not just a third.

 

[Figboy79]

Interesting. I can get behind the reasoning, though.

I plan on creating a female character for the online portion of the game (as I do with pretty much any game that lets me choose a gender). If they are telling a specific story, and that story requires a male perspective, I'm fine with that.

I think Rockstar is good on eventually giving us a GTA with a female protagonist. I think they'd do a killer job with it when they do. I'm bummed that it can't be with GTAV, but who's to say they won't in GTAVI, or even some GTAV DLC. I don't particularly feel bad or am outraged at their reasoning. I don't think something should be forced or shoehorned into the story/plot/characters, because of outside pressure.

I am eager to see Rockstar pull a Max Payne or John Marston type characterization on a female, however.

 

[Carcetti]

They don't want to write stories about women, that doesn't mean they are sexist, I mean they wrote about a gay guy they are basically women right? (I am only messing about, before I get my ass banned)

If they included women I bet people would nit pick on every little thing that doesn't conform to the strong female type if they risked making a female the lead. They can't win either way.

I don't really care about the sexist angle. I'd just really like to see Rockstar do a female lead. Bonnie in RDR was superb.

The trio of crazy guy like Claude, black guy like CJ and gangster like Tommy seems pretty safe as a concept in comparison. Maybe they're totally different, maybe they're meant to appeal to the old fans because a game that expensive needs to sell like crazy.

 

[Nudull]

Apparently, only men can be masculine, according to Rockstar. Lucky you can play a female PC in GTAO, but yeah.