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Hearthstone |OT10| Ultimate Infuriation
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Sounds about right. Rogue, Hunter and Priest are definitely the most played classes right now, although I'd say 1 and 3 are significantly above 2.
You can check out s sample of the full distribution here, which backs up your observations, mostly. Warlock is kinda in the mid tier right now, so you might have just ran into more by chance. Distributions also change by rank, with lower ranks favoring more control style play, generally, which might make Warlock be higher on your particular patch of land.
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-63/
I really want to know what the theme of next expansion is. From the year of the mammoth presentation it looks like a rogue or a robin hood thing; something money themed. Any guesses from people who know WoW lore?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Leeroy shadowstep is only a 12 damage combo for 8 mana... that's like worse than double fireball.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Leroy Cold Blood is 10 though and that's not counting keleseth buffs
It's not that combo that bugs me. It's Leeroy being the go-to finisher in every hand-vomiting aggro deck since day 1.
Shadowstep is just one of the those cards that lets good cards become stupid. It's had its time to shine.
And I'd love to see Fireball hit the HOF, too. Either that or Frostbolt. Too much burn in the classic/basic sets.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You can. I don't think keleseth is necessary for the deck to function. I think I win more games without keleseth than I do with keleseth. It'd be interesting to look at least.
I was actually okay with leeroy at 4 tbh. I was also okay with the nerf. I think it's fine where it's at though. No need to HOF. You really don't want to get rid of all the damage/burn from hand, it's an important part of the game's risk/decision making.
Forerunner
Member
I just had a game where the guy coined first turn and Dirty Rat. It pulled my Ysera and he quit, lol.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Live by the Rat, die by the Rat.
Leeroy is the best designed charge card in the game along with Grom with risk/reward involved unlike what Arcane Golem used to be and at 5 it's very balanced. They are not going to print any more charge so this is what we have and removing it is very bad for the game. There is not much burst damage left in the game.
Burst in needed, otherwise all removal decks become far too good like priest is now. If anything we need a bit more burst in the game. Right now it's so boring, you just remove board and you never die unless it's mage. That threat adds skill and foresight to both players. They nerfed too much I think. Force roar, flurry, PO, Ice lance, Conceal. All of those gone replaced by nothing.
Burst in needed, otherwise all removal decks become far too good like priest is now. If anything we need a bit more burst in the game. Right now it's so boring, you just remove board and you never die unless it's mage. That threat adds skill and foresight to both players. They nerfed too much I think. Force roar, flurry, PO, Ice lance, Conceal. All of those gone replaced by nothing.
You shouldn't need to worry about dying when your opponent has no board and you have 15 life.
EverVigilant
Neo Member
What number of life would you propose instead?
What exactly "should" is, all of it can be blocked by a taunt too. It's very very fair, if you can't predict that and make the read to these simple things you deserve to lose, it's time to git gud.
BananasWithGuns
Member
For the most part I think minion burst is in an okay spot. It's pretty much hard countered by taunt and it's only ever been somewhat of an issue because of the amount of absolutely terrible taunt minions we've gotten since Belcher. They've been printing a lot of better ones recently though so it doesn't particularly bother me.
Spell burst is where the issue is though in my opinion. The counters to it are a lot less prevalent, especially when some burst decks couldn't give a shit less if you run healing or armor. Freeze Mage decks we've seen in the past have been capable of burning you from 30 on a single turn. That kind of stuff is unacceptable.
Spell burst is where the issue is though in my opinion. The counters to it are a lot less prevalent, especially when some burst decks couldn't give a shit less if you run healing or armor. Freeze Mage decks we've seen in the past have been capable of burning you from 30 on a single turn. That kind of stuff is unacceptable.
15 is kinda perfect line tho, this game will fucked if not even had 15 damage burst
I'll argue game had too few burst as current state in standard, I blame this to people like you and plenty other in reddit
its made combo deck hard too hard to be found unless its created by the blizzard itself like anduin raza deck
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
30 damage was ony possible because of emperor and ice lance.
homeworkfilms
Member
Playing a FTP account under rank 20 anc encountering full teched Anduin Raza decks sure is tilting.
EverVigilant
Neo Member
Having quite a bit of success with aggro druid at the moment. The weird thing is that I haven't played against anyone else running the deck since the nerf. In any case, I'm 4 wins away from golden druid :-D!
Edit: There it is!
Edit: There it is!
How can anyone take anything you say seriously when you are calling for that after 2 fucking weeks of playing. That option is not meant to balance something that is good once in a blue moon. Leeroy is not a go to finisher for aggro decks. It's something they use when they have nothing else better in the slot. Zoo doesn't use it, token druid doesn't use it, token shaman doesn't use it. Just stop and cool down after losing instead of posting dumb shit please.
so delete mage from the game, pretty much?
fireball fireball frostbolt is pretty common
Taunt has never worked to block aggro. You know that.
Yes, it is definitely my fault that many games go to turn 10 now. The horror.
I don't even know what you're trying to say. They sent PO to the HOF because of Leeroy. Wrong card was retired imo.
I already said I'd be in favor of seeing one of mage's burn cards go away. Have you ever built a mage deck without fireball and frostbolt?
I mean, I thought we wanted a game that changes itself up frequently. Why is there so much resistance to retiring old cards that have been featured in decks for years?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Raza priest is so stupid, I feel like I have to actively make grave mistakes to lose any game.
Heck I make tons of those but still end up winning because the deck has 28+ points of burst damage from hand quite easily.
Deck is weirdly almost playing itself while at the same time turning super taxing fast.
Heck I make tons of those but still end up winning because the deck has 28+ points of burst damage from hand quite easily.
Deck is weirdly almost playing itself while at the same time turning super taxing fast.
Absoludacrous
Member
Apparently my grave mistake is having Anduin be in the last 5 cards of my deck for literally the last six games.
Though somehow I still won two of them.
Part of me thinks they will HoF Doomsayer.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
My latest game was against big priest and I accidentally played a shadow word horror before the pint sized potion when there were 2 statues on the board and subsequently got pummeled by them. Then I cleared the board with a combination of pings pint sized potion stealing his statue with potion of madness then running it into his arthas to stop the lifesteal while hitting him to 25
Then went ping velen ping smite ping mindblast ping for lethal the next turn. Anduin was 6th from bottom Ungoro Pack was the very last card.
Fireball coming down to 5 damage is probably in the cards. Makes it kind of a bad spell for the cost though, but I dunno what you do there.
Frostbolt kinda can't be touched in terms of damage or effect without completely obliterating the card. They could go the other way on it and make it 4 mana for 4 damage and the freeze. So that it and Fireball are both kinda neighbors.
Who knows what all this does to Mage as a class tho. Probably gonna be big trouble, for what has historically be a very popular class.
HoFing Doomsayer isn't a terrible idea long term, but I feel like it just pushes Wild to be even more crazy with board clears than it already is compared to Standard. Like at some point after enough HoF rotations, Wild won't even be playing the same game as Standard. It's close to that point now, even.
Frostbolt kinda can't be touched in terms of damage or effect without completely obliterating the card. They could go the other way on it and make it 4 mana for 4 damage and the freeze. So that it and Fireball are both kinda neighbors.
Who knows what all this does to Mage as a class tho. Probably gonna be big trouble, for what has historically be a very popular class.
HoFing Doomsayer isn't a terrible idea long term, but I feel like it just pushes Wild to be even more crazy with board clears than it already is compared to Standard. Like at some point after enough HoF rotations, Wild won't even be playing the same game as Standard. It's close to that point now, even.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
that's a desireable outcome
DyslexicAlucard
Member
I don't foresee Blizz nerfing or HoFing Frostbolt or Fireball next rotation, only because I'm 99% sure they'll HoF Ice Block. Because both Frostbolt and Fireball are integral to the Mage archetype of efficient burst, removing one (or both) of those cards alongside Ice Block has a good chance of throwing the class off a cliff.
I know they've sorta done that in the past, but I'd like to think they're hesitant to do so. This is especially true for Mage, because it's the first class a new player is exposed to.
They already threw Warrior off the cliff. Everybody gets a throw now.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Doomsayer could be HOF'd, I mentioned it earlier I think. Perhaps somewhere else. It's one of the top played cards in the format and it's a classic card. Perfect storm.
There is always room for more anti-aggro tools I feel like, which is why it might not happen. On the other hand, you still have this classic card taking up a lot of the meta. Maybe not next rotation, but I can't imagine it stays around forever.
There is always room for more anti-aggro tools I feel like, which is why it might not happen. On the other hand, you still have this classic card taking up a lot of the meta. Maybe not next rotation, but I can't imagine it stays around forever.
if doomsayer is HoF'd then just outright move all classic to wild.
doomsayer is precisely the card that checks everything that blizzard likes in the evergreen sets, they are not included in every single deck, not even all slow decks run it and it even isn't deck defining, it is just like the bones of the deck, it helps the deck to hold, but they are merely a tool to the decks available.
doomsayer is precisely the card that checks everything that blizzard likes in the evergreen sets, they are not included in every single deck, not even all slow decks run it and it even isn't deck defining, it is just like the bones of the deck, it helps the deck to hold, but they are merely a tool to the decks available.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think that is being a little overreactive. Sure, not every deck runs it. I don't think that is the litmus test at all, but it is something to consider.
As for being deck defining or not, azure drake was never deck defining either. Same with ragnaros and sylvanas when you think about it. These were just plain strong tools that were heavily played, not even every meta, and were rotated for the sake of changing things up.
slightconfuse
Banned
I feel like getting rid of ice block would keep fireball and frost bolt from getting nerfed
All of this just reinforces the idea that Blizzard needs to create new core sets every two or three years. Keep nerfing or rotating the cards on the evergreen sets and eventually none of it will be played, you create a shitty new player experience, returning players hate it, and then Standard just gets defined by all the expansions. Magic is moving back into core sets because their model of not having core sets ended up not working for them. If Blizzard makes the core set useless that effectively becomes what happens to Hearthstone.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't see why moving doomsayer, an epic card, really impacts the new player experience at all.
I don't think we're even close to making the classic/basic sets useless. We're not even close to that. And I don't think there is a slippery slope either.
Wouldn't MTG moving back to core sets be both different than heartsthone, and yet still support them having a core set? I say it's different because they're a physical card game. If they had a core set stay standard forever, that set would eventually become too rare/expensive. Which is of course a big reason why they reprint old cards. Hearthstone doesn't face this issue as a digital card game.
MTG also just outright bans cards from their formats, basically doing the same thing as HOF.
c'mon, you know I'm hyperbolizing, I said it because doomsayer fits perfectly what Team 5 wants in the everlasting sets.
azure drake was auto include in the 5 slot in all decks, unless they were aggro, they were the 5 mana equivalent of what ragnaros was, one of the reason of azure drake moving was that people usually just straight out run AD and never considered more options for the 5 slot, as I said, doomsayer isn't even included in all slow decks, and even if included it isn't limiting decks.
besides, I don't think Doomsayer is as strong as AD is.
Except that Blizzard is attempting to do the thing that MtG never did and that is regulate the legacy format (somewhat) at the same time as the Standard one. Magic always had these historical sets hanging over their formats and those being tied up in physical rarity as well as power level. Blizzard side-steps that issue thankfully, so we don't have anything like a Black Lotus in Hearthstone because it's a digital game.
HOF is a lot closer to MtG people making a card Legacy legal only, you're essentially banning it to a different format, although Wild is very certainly MUCH more popular than Legacy Magic is. Yet even in Legacy Magic there are cards that are straight up banned out because they are too good. They also employ the ability to limit the number of copies people can play in a deck, which is something Hearthstone has never tried, but by design doesn't really matter much (taking a card from 2x to 1x just makes it effectively legendary). So they don't really even have that level of control to use.
I wonder what a Hearthstone Wild format would look like if they really went after the Balance issues there and outright banned the most degenerate cards in the game (probably not too many cards to even consider here -- maybe just Jade Idol or Naga Sea Witch?). The Wild meta is surprisingly diverse (outside of Giants) these days.
Mike Donais discusses Prince Keleseth, the recent nerfs, the new meta, and Razakus Priest. Pretty interesting.
I think this quote from Mike might end up being a meme. Keleseth is bad vs aggro because you might draw spells and then die on turn 6?!?!
I think this quote from Mike might end up being a meme. Keleseth is bad vs aggro because you might draw spells and then die on turn 6?!?!
Karsticles
Member
I can't see how a new core set wouldn't mean we 80% get cards like "totally not fireball".
No mention of Wild Giants.
Everyone has moved on from Dreadsteed.
Paging Dahbomb!
Where are these people? Show them to me...
No mention of Wild Giants.
Everyone has moved on from Dreadsteed. I think what he said is pretty fair.
keleseth makes the whole deck more powerful, but you need tempo to feel the effect, if you play keleseth you just don't expect to win on the turn it is played, it heavily influences the rest of the game, but it isn't game breaking. You don't even feel any kind effect if by any chance on your next turn you don't draw a minion (the only thing the card changes)
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Blizzard has done nothing to balance wild. Wizards on the other hand has done various bannings and unbannings for every of their formats on a regular basis.
Regulating the number of copies in a deck is also exclusive to Vintage a format that doesn't ban anything but game breaking stuff.
Everything in HS is more popular than magic, that's not really a metric worth anything. There's a much more active legacy scene than there is one for wild though.
I think the number of games where you play Keleseth on turn two and get "literally zero effect" is signifcantly less than 1%.
Is it fair to say that dropping Kel on 2 isn't an autowin? Yes, it's fair. But to say that he gets zero effect in some games? That's just nuts.