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[ZealousD]

This Week in Hearthstone actually spent a lot of time creating a tier list based on the opinions of Trump, Kripp, and Reyand. So of these cards, which do you think are very overrated and underrated?

Overrated- Polymorph: Boar, Saboteur, Fencing Coach, Burgle, Lowly Squire

Underrated- Gadgetzan Jouster, Savage Combatant, Twilight Guardian

 

[MThanded]

My arena drafts have been crap just went 1-3 . Maybe I'm just worse at arena.

However dat pack doe

 

[Bizazedo]

Overrated- Polymorph: Boar

I'm convinced Polymorph Boar will work pretty well in an aggro / charger / tempo style mage deck.

 

[inky]

Decent list. I'd swap Aviana and Pit Fighter. Still torn on Rhonin. I think Shady Dealer might be legit good.

A lot of those I can't honestly judge, but seems alright to me.

 

[caesar]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that these cards would see some play in high level Hearthstone play from TGT. I am probably going to be very wrong but I don't care.

Varian Wrynn
Aviana
Rhonin
Chillmaw
Eadric the Pure
Justicar Trueheart
Mysterious Challenger
Tuskarr Jouster
Gormok the Impaler
Holy Champion
Savage Combatant
Twilight Guardian
Effigy
Elemental Destruction
Healing Wave
Mulch
Polymorph: Boar
Powershot
Seal of Champions
Dreadscale
Eydis Darkbane
Fjola Lightbane
Tuskarr Totemic
Ancestral Knowledge
Darnassus Aspirant
King's Elekk
Totem Golem
Competitive Spirit
Flash Heal
Living Roots
Buccaneer
Gadgetan Jouster


There could be more than these cards of course (like a Confuse based deck... AAAYYY!!) but I feel like these cards are either very strong on their own, fit a very specfic deck very well or fill a very crucial gap in a class toolkit (like card draw in Shaman) and thus will see some play.

So I am guessing about 30 cards will see some high level play compared to around 40 from GvG.

What do you mean see play? I mean im sure a lot of things will be tested at least but after 2-3 months is another thing.

 

[Maximo]

Holy shit this poor mage.

Won 2 Kings Elekk Jousts
Won 2 Armoured Warhorse Jousts.
Won Skeleton Knight Joust
Won Master Joust, all in in a row.
Then his Spellslinger gave me implosion which hit for 4.
I have become RNGesus himself!

 

[Dahbomb]

Polymorph Bear is a strictly better Polymorph in a Mage Inspire deck (that's actually decently built unlike that Brawl) and in a Tempo Mage deck. Those cards can't afford to use a silence like effect ala Poly so for those decks that card is really good.

It has no place in a Control/Slow Mage but it is outrageous in any aggressive Mage deck.


I thought the same of the card before today and after playing around with it, it's even better than I initially thought. Granted many times I got to use it I had something like a Fallen Hero in hand or in play or I needed the card to get lethal but still there were a lot of situations where it very positively impacted the board state.

What do you mean see play? I mean im sure a lot of things will be tested at least but after 2-3 months is another thing.

Yeah I mean that the cards will be played in some tier 4 or higher deck 2-3 months after release.

 

[Magnus]

Yeah, I'm not super happy with Jousting after experiencing it. I guess I like random (like Unstable Portal or Saraad) but not a random binary of awesome vs shit.

 

[poppedcollar69]

dont use feign death on the skeleton knight XD

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Awesome that my quests going into this brawl were 60 gold hunter/mage and 50 gold mage victories!

 

[ZealousD]

The difference between Polymorph and Polymorph Boar is insubstantial when Fallen Hero is in play, I agree. But there are several key things to keep in mind here.

1.) The Hunter deck has crap for early minions and its only early removal is arcane shot. Further, the Hunter suffers from a complete lack of board clear ability aside from UTH which a slower deck really needs. That means your Fallen Heroes stick around for quite awhile and it is very easy for the mage to establish a board presence and stack their inspire effects. So compared to Constructed, where a Turn 2 Knife Juggler basically dies every time, you can throw down Fallen Heroes anytime you want and they're probably going to stick around.

2.) If Fallen Hero is not in play, you're looking at a 6-7 mana removal combo, which is worse than the comparable 5-6 mana removal play you'd see from regular polymorph.

3.) The Mage deck can just get away with some truly awful shit because of how bad the hunter deck is.I was playing hunter against a mage and they played a minion and IMMEDIATELY turned it into a boar to attack my face, and they weren't even threatening lethal. I laughed when they did it because they literally just spent 2 cards and 5 mana to summon a huffer. You couldn't get away with that shit in constructed.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

The lock and load overlay is awkward on the phone interface because the vignette hides your cards in the bottom right corner.

 

[Papercuts]

Yeah, I'm not super happy with Jousting after experiencing it. I guess I like random (like Unstable Portal or Saraad) but not a random binary of awesome vs shit.

This isn't a great showcase of joust as the hunter deck is awkward as hell. It went partway into lock n load spell based and the other is a bunch of super high cost minions which means losing the joust hurts way more, like with the warhorse(which is a terrible minion to tie joust into in the first place). The fact that the mage has frost giant doesn't help as it will beat anything pulled.

To me the best jousts are always gonna be ones that are still alright with a loss. A 5/3 sitting there would never make the cut, but the 5/5 pally heal one is solid since the time it's most relevant is vs. aggro and against midrange/control the bigger body over healbot is more relevant. Same with healing wave for shaman.

 

[poppedcollar69]

wait a minute, this guy has a gladiators crossbow that says created by lock n load

 

[johnsmith]

Brawl hunter deck is complete garbage. It's like they don't even try to balance this shit. Hunter basically boils down to whether you draw lock and load.

And my opponent just won a joust on a minion he played? WTF? I thought ties were losses.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Brawl hunter deck is complete garbage

i lost with the mage 5 in a row before getting hunter and winning first try

The worst thing in the mage deck was getting 3 different spells added to my hadn I couldnt cast. Deadly poison, that one that deals damage equal to your armor, and the one that gives a beast immune and +2 attack

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

wait a minute, this guy has a gladiators crossbow that says created by lock n load

Yes, it gives you a random Hunter card, not a spell or minion exclusively.

 

[poppedcollar69]

Yes, it gives you a random Hunter card, not a spell or minion exclusively.

oh, my bad

 

[ZealousD]

This isn't a great showcase of joust as the hunter deck is awkward as hell. It went partway into lock n load spell based and the other is a bunch of super high cost minions which means losing the joust hurts way more, like with the warhorse(which is a terrible minion to tie joust into in the first place). The fact that the mage has frost giant doesn't help as it will beat anything pulled.

To me the best jousts are always gonna be ones that are still alright with a loss. A 5/3 sitting there would never make the cut, but the 5/5 pally heal one is solid since the time it's most relevant is vs. aggro and against midrange/control the bigger body over healbot is more relevant. Same with healing wave for shaman.

A "joust deck" is a bad idea anyway. Joust cards don't really synergize with each other. They are essentially judged on their independent merits rather than how they interact with each other.

 

[johnsmith]

Anyway lock n load is ridiculous, hope you guys enjoy playing against face hunter for another year and a half.

Other than that card every new card is awful.

 

[toddhunter]

The lock and load overlay is awkward on the phone interface because the vignette hides your cards in the bottom right corner.

Yeah just noticed that. I drew into...something!

Inspire is weak to silence, board clears and aggro. The hunter deck has none of these things except a lucky unleash combo.

I'll take my deathrattles please.

I also think lock and load is not very good. It seems good in a shit deck with spells, however any real hunter deck is going to have actual cards you want to play.

I think it is way too slow.

 

[Little Nemo]

My arena drafts have been crap just went 1-3 . Maybe I'm just worse at arena.

However dat pack doe

Has arena started dishing out the random packs now or not until TGT releases?

 

[johnsmith]

and now they lost on a tie? This is inconsistent as hell.

 

[ZealousD]

Anyway lock n load is ridiculous, hope you guys enjoy playing against face hunter for another year and a half.

Other than that card every new card is awful.

Lock and Load doesn't fit in Face Hunter. The cards that enable the draw don't necessarily offer reach. It's more like it enables a more classic style of mid-range hunter. Instead of Buzzard + UTH, it's Lock-n-Load into Tracking into Hunter's Mark into UTH.

 

[Haly]

Feign Death hunter might actually become viable with LnL.

 

[johnsmith]

Lock and Load doesn't fit in Face Hunter. The cards that enable the draw don't necessarily offer reach. It's more like it enables a more classic style of mid-range hunter. Instead of Buzzard + UTH, it's Lock-n-Load into Tracking into Hunter's Mark into UTH.

You say that now, but just wait until you get lock and loaded + kill command + kill command +quick shot, followed by 3x kill command + arcane shot the turn after.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Just had the oddest game which I lost that sucked. Tempo mage randomly played Kel'Thuzad and had a Shredder up - which procced Lorewalker Cho. He Drops a Rag on the next turn or two. Meanwhile I have Ysera up. So he keeps running the Shredder into Ysera while I'm helpless to address this KT cause Cho gives him everything. His second Shredder also popped an Annoy-o-tron making things even more difficult.

Just really, really weird.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Getting joust ties is really frustrating.

 

[Stoze]

Yeah, I'm not super happy with Jousting after experiencing it. I guess I like random (like Unstable Portal or Saraad) but not a random binary of awesome vs shit.

Yeah, I mean there is actual design that goes into making RNG fun, like the feeling of rolling the dice when you drop a bomber or where Rag is gonna hit, which often takes some strategy and timing of plays during the game to mitigate the randomness. With jousting you technically lose the majority of the time in a mirror match (because you lose ties) and you can't really influence the chances of it while you're playing, which makes it boring. You would have to build your deck around mitigating it or only really play it in rampy/late game decks and even then I don't think any of the cards are good enough for that, because the effects that proc aren't exiciting or gamechanging but more of a small tempo boost.

Also the animation is slow as hell and annoying. Not that many cards with it though so it's not a big deal.

 

[ZealousD]

You say that now, but just wait until you get lock and loaded + kill command + kill command +quick shot

A face hunter is not going to have 4 cards at 10 mana.

 

[toddhunter]

A face hunter is not going to have 4 cards at 10 mana.

A face hunter is not going to typically get 10 mana.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Spellslinger seems to give me paladin secrets 90% of the time.

 

[ZealousD]

A face hunter is not going to typically get 10 mana.

They might, but only because the Control Warrior hasn't killed them yet.

 

[johnsmith]

A minion can attack again after it gets turned into a boar, that's pretty good.

 

[ZealousD]

A minion can attack again after it gets turned into a boar, that's pretty good.

That's called crappy windfury.

 

[Birdman02]

Anybody on NA around that wants to help me complete the spectator quest?

Birdman #1982

 

[toddhunter]

That's called crappy windfury.

You can do it twice though. Mage finally has a way to do burst face damage.

 

[johnsmith]

That's called crappy windfury.

Windfury doesn't let you take out a sylvanas or ragnaros or go through a huge taunt.

 

[Dahbomb]

That's called crappy windfury.

Not when a minion is a token like a Mirror Image or the minion has lower than 4 attack or there are other spell synergy creatures in play like Flamewaker and Mana Wyrm .. all of which are played in the current Tempo mage deck.

It doesn't matter that it's a crappy Windfury because you are paying for the versatility on top of it being another spell in the Tempo Mage's arsenal. You are too zeroed in on evaluating it as either just a reach card or just a removal card.

Yeah... it's individually a worse Animal Companion/Huffer, a worse Shadowbolt, a worse Windfury, a worse Polymorph/removal... but combined it's one hell of a card because of its flexibility.

 

[irfaanator]

so I just got back into heartstone. How screwed am I in terms of being behind. Havent really done any naxx or blackrock, and obviously dont really have a fleshed out deck yet

 

[ZealousD]

Yeah... it's individually a worse Animal Companion/Huffer, a worse Shadowbolt, a worse Windfury, a worse Polymorph/removal... but combined it's one hell of a card because of its flexibility.

Jack of all trades, master of none. I had previously compared the card to starfall but after consideration I think demonfire or felheart are better comparisons. You can either use them as removal or situational buffs, but warlocks aren't happy enough with that flexibility to run them.

 

[johnsmith]

I just noticed Rhonin gives arcane missles on death, and not battlecry. He's not as good as I thought then.

 

[Dahbomb]

The fact that you are comparing that card to either Demonheart or Demonfire means that you are already not looking at the card properly.

The card is far more flexible than either Demonheart and Demonfire simply because Polymorph Bear is usable on ALL creatures as a "buff" not just demons. That's a significant weakness in those two cards and also why Demonfuse in particular is a garbage card (because it only buffs demons on top of other side effects). In addition, neither cards act as a silence or a taunt nullifier. Furthermore... neither of those cards are in the Mage which can gain further value from such a card.


I would actually say that Polymorph Bear would be ridiculous in Zoolock simply because you can turn a random ass imp into a Huffer as reach or removal/get through taunt mechanic. For them it would be like a cross between Power Overwhelming and an Owl but Zoolock has a much easier time doing random 2 damage to a minion to remove it because they have so much crap on the board (ie turn a Sylvanas into a 4/2, run an Abusive into an egg to kill the Boar).

 

[PAULINK]

so I just got back into heartstone. How screwed am I in terms of being behind. Havent really done any naxx or blackrock, and obviously dont really have a fleshed out deck yet

it's a good time to get back in imo, new expansion hits monday. Naxx and BRM have some great cards, you could grind and get them all with coins, but imo the expansions are totally worth the money, did not regret it one bit when I was starting out and bought nax.

Also I feel really bad playing this tavern brawl, knowing all the cards in the opponent's deck just makes me intentionally play around those cards, like i have some sort of cheat sheet. Still, fun to see the new jousting cards in play, as well as inspire. Really excited about monday!

 

[Tubie]

I just noticed Rhonin gives arcane missles on death, and not battlecry. He's not as good as I thought then.

Yea, I don't think he's as good as some thought.

 

[Tubie]

so I just got back into heartstone. How screwed am I in terms of being behind. Havent really done any naxx or blackrock, and obviously dont really have a fleshed out deck yet

I came back in May after quitting 2 months into beta. I bought both adventures and a 50 pack of GvG and Classic. I'm basically caught up now. I could probably have not needed to even buy those packs as I mostly play Priest and Hunter and have been accumulating gold and dust for 2 months.

 

[manhack]

Yeah I think Lock and Load is going to be the real deal. There are already enough spells that are decent in regular hunter decks that you don't even need to make anything to crazy.

Lock and Load + Coin + arcane shot + tracking is sick.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah my opinion is a bit swayed on Lock n Load.

I don't think it will see play in Face Hunter but the card with a few cheap spells can really turn the tide. I am really curious to see how a deck that properly utilize its strength can do against the current meta.


Like literally 80% of the matches I have won with Hunter in this Brawl have been because I was able to get off a good Lock n Load.

 

[QFNS]

It works in a certain kind of mage deck that might or might not be any good. One that runs lots of aggro/tempo-y minions and the standard damage spells. In an aggro deck turning an enemy taunt into a huffer is preferable to losing minions on killing it, even better if you can combo it somehow with flamewaker, a 2 dmg hero power, or w/e.

I think Polymorph: Boar will definitely have a place in some deck. Will that deck be any good? I have no idea. It very well might suck or not be good enough compared to whatever ends up being the strong deck of the meta. I still think its a good spell. It gives options, and any thing that gives options is a good thing.

 

[Dahbomb]

It works in a certain kind of mage deck that might or might not be any good. One that runs lots of aggro/tempo-y minions and the standard damage spells. In an aggro deck turning an enemy taunt into a huffer is preferable to losing minions on killing it, even better if you can combo it somehow with flamewaker, a 2 dmg hero power, or w/e.

I think Polymorph: Boar will definitely have a place in some deck. Will that deck be any good? I have no idea. It very well might suck or not be good enough compared to whatever ends up being the strong deck of the meta. I still think its a good spell. It gives options, and any thing that gives options is a good thing.

That's already a deck ... it's called the Tempo Flamewaker deck. It's still a very common deck on Ladder and is occasionally used in tournament play as well. That's the prime candidate for this type of card. Not as good as it once was as people have shifted to using Mech Mage to counter Grim Patron but still it's one of those decks that can completely demolish you with a crazy opener.

Like I am already envisioning some crazy Mana Wyrm, Sorcerer Apprentice, Mirror Image into Poly a Mirror Image ridiculous opener.