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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks

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M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Patron warrior is a clearly stronger deck that regularly OTKs. But secret paladin is somehow worse? You can plan for and respond to mysterious challenger. You actually can because the secrets are so predictable when there are 4-5 of them. And how do you respond to a patron warrior OTK? Not play anything so berserker is reduced in damage?

I don't even think the two decks are comparable. Patron warrior has been top of the meta for months and secret paladin is already figured out.
 
K

Kornflayx

Member
Secret Paladin isn't even that bad. Aside from MC they only have small stuff and for that there's the AOE stuff. Or you just play Hunter with Flare
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Patron warrior is a clearly stronger deck that regularly OTKs. But secret paladin is somehow worse? You can plan for and respond to mysterious challenger. You actually can because the secrets are so predictable when there are 4-5 of them. And how do you respond to a patron warrior OTK? Not play anything so berserker is reduced in damage?

I don't even think the two decks are comparable. Patron warrior has been top of the meta for months and secret paladin is already figured out.
Click to expand...

"Figuring out" secret Paladin means nothing. If they have any semblance of a board by turn 6 and they drop Mysterious Challenger it's just over. Not to mention secret Paladins are starting to run shit like Dr. Boom. Mysterious Challenger into Dr. Boom is pretty much an automatic win.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
hearthstonescreenshot0xuw8.png
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The moment this paladin kid realized that even after LoH into topdick Eadric my 1-attack board represented perfect lethal
1.0
 
C

crazygambit

Member
ZealousD said:
Yeah Patron requires skill. Secret Paladin is just filthy. Keep MC in opening hand. Throw away any secrets you get. Vomit dudes onto board. Collect wins.
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I don't know about keeping MC in your hand. I've been doing ok without it. I just crushed a Patron last night without ever drawing MC. I find the secrets are much stronger when played one at a time and since they only cost 1, you can easily weave them in between your other plays.

Summoning a 2/1 to defend your minions when your opponent doesn't know for sure what you played it's nice. Saving the resurrect for a Shredder rather than said 2/1 is much nicer. Getting +3/+2 on a minibot after your opponent has to kill a Juggler is pretty sweet.

All the stuff popping up at once is much less nice and your opponent can easily play around it. You'll prevent no more than 1 damage with the 2/1, that's pretty much guaranteed. Getting +3/+2 on the challenger is usually bad as it makes it a huge target for removal and puts it in BGH range.

As for Dr. Boom, it really does win you games. And if you follow with Tirion it's usually gg. But any paladin deck can make that play.

I definitely think it's wrong to keep MC in your starting hand. I did at the beginning while I was testing the deck, until I drew the second one on my first draw. That pretty much costs you the game right there.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Patron warrior is a clearly stronger deck that regularly OTKs. But secret paladin is somehow worse? You can plan for and respond to mysterious challenger. You actually can because the secrets are so predictable when there are 4-5 of them. And how do you respond to a patron warrior OTK? Not play anything so berserker is reduced in damage?

I don't even think the two decks are comparable. Patron warrior has been top of the meta for months and secret paladin is already figured out.
Click to expand...
Sometimes Patron will do things that seem pretty unfair. Their control over the game still primarily shows in short bursts, with one of the problem pieces being Thaurissan. I still feel like there is a cost analysis with using combo pieces to clear the board or stay in the game.

With Secret Paladin I run into situations where I'm punished just for attacking or trying to clear the board with a spell, and failing to respond also provides its own punishment. All that's involved with Paladin is playing spells on curve faster than your opponent, running secrets that punish the enemy player for dropping stuff on the board or playing cards. At least Warrior has to look for spell/minion combos to do things. Divine Favor magically fills a hand with one card where Battle Rage (which is also kind of broken), at least needs set up plus multiple cards to really get a decent draw. There are trade offs to Patron Warrior that just do not exist in Secret Paladin.
 
C

crazygambit

Member
dimb said:
Sometimes Patron will do things that seem pretty unfair. Their control over the game still primarily shows in short bursts, with one of the problem pieces being Thaurissan. I still feel like there is a cost analysis with using combo pieces to clear the board or stay in the game.

With Secret Paladin I run into situations where I'm punished just for attacking or trying to clear the board with a spell, and failing to respond also provides its own punishment. All that's involved with Paladin is playing spells on curve faster than your opponent, running secrets that punish the enemy player for dropping stuff on the board or playing cards. At least Warrior has to look for spell/minion combos to do things. Divine Favor magically fills a hand with one card where Battle Rage (which is also kind of broken), at least needs set up plus multiple cards to really get a decent draw. There are trade offs to Patron Warrior that just do not exist in Secret Paladin.
Click to expand...

I think what's really strong about Paladin right now is their card pool. For example I don't even run Divine Favor, Equality/Consecration or Quartermaster, yet my opponent has to play like I do or risk being severely punished, which forces some suboptimal plays from him. I'm always happy to see him using his 3+ attack creatures to clear my 1/1 dudes after Muster. If Quartermaster didn't exist they'd just be ignored.

It's like Bear Trap for hunter. I don't think it's very good, but it's inclusion buffs hunter. I had a situation where I had a 4 and a 7 attack creature in play. He had 6 health and played a secret. If it was freezing I would have won by attacking first with the 4 and then the 7 attack minion. If it was Bear Trap I had to first attack with the 7 minion to win. He had lethal next turn. I guessed Freezing and lost. If Bear Trap wasn't a thing it would have been an easy win.
 
S

Servbot #42

Unconfirmed Member
L8n3R75.png


I got 7 wins with this paladin deck, even tough i don't consider the deck that strong. I actually had a deck earlier today that had eadric, two consecrates and two true silvers and i only managed 4 wins with it, funny how the seemingly weaker deck had more wins. Also i never saw murlock knight in all of my games, now that's some fucking bullshit
rage.gif
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
crazygambit said:
I definitely think it's wrong to keep MC in your starting hand. I did at the beginning while I was testing the deck, until I drew the second one on my first draw. That pretty much costs you the game right there.
Click to expand...

If you don't draw MC you are just playing a crummy version of aggro Paladin. MC is your win condition. And if I draw a second I usually feel as if I don't care. That just means I can drop the second one on Turn 7. Then I've exhausted all my secrets and I don't have to worry about drawing into them anymore.
 
C

crazygambit

Member
ZealousD said:
If you don't draw MC you are just playing a crummy version of aggro Paladin. MC is your win condition. And if I draw a second I usually feel as if I don't care. That just means I can drop the second one on Turn 7. Then I've exhausted all my secrets and I don't have to worry about drawing into them anymore.
Click to expand...

I'm running the mid range version. I should have specified that. It's probably fine to keep it in the aggro version, since you'll easily be able to play the rest of your cards. In mid range however if you keep it and also draw the upper range of your curve, you're dead.

I've even considered removing Tirion, since 90% of the time it's just dead weight on my hand. The other 10% though he wins games so I've kept him.
 
R

Raxus

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Patron warrior is a clearly stronger deck that regularly OTKs. But secret paladin is somehow worse? You can plan for and respond to mysterious challenger. You actually can because the secrets are so predictable when there are 4-5 of them. And how do you respond to a patron warrior OTK? Not play anything so berserker is reduced in damage?

I don't even think the two decks are comparable. Patron warrior has been top of the meta for months and secret paladin is already figured out.
Click to expand...
You can prepare for patron too. Doesn't really change it and secrets paladin have innate advantages that give them an edge over most decks.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
crazygambit said:
I'm running the mid range version. I should have specified that. It's probably fine to keep it in the aggro version, since you'll easily be able to play the rest of your cards. In mid range however if you keep it and also draw the upper range of your curve, you're dead.

I've even considered removing Tirion, since 90% of the time it's just dead weight on my hand. The other 10% though he wins games so I've kept him.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I imagine the midrange version you have to ensure you curve out better. Aggro version can vomit out pretty much anything and MC isn't your win condition in quite the same way, since you won't be finishing your opponent off with your 10/9
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Just played a astral communion druid who got sick luck. Turn 3 coin astral, top decks nefarian, who gives him divine favor... I still almost won but ysera gives him dream to 0 mana sap my tirion. If everything happened the same way but he didn't coin out astral communion, I would have pulled way far ahead via kelthuzad... was 1 mana off from a big play.
 
S

sibarraz

Banned
The thing with Paladin is that almost all his archetypes had the exact 4 turns playing that you never know what to expect

turn 1-2 argent squire/shielded minibot
3 muster
4 consecration or true silver champion

If they play a leper gnome you know that they are aggro, a secret, mad scientist or secret keeper is secret, an aldon and is midrange, but if they don't spoil any of those play by turn 5, you still don't know which will be the best play to do

Servbot #42 said:
L8n3R75.png


I got 7 wins with this paladin deck, even tough i don't consider the deck that strong. I actually had a deck earlier today that had eadric, two consecrates and two true silvers and i only managed 4 wins with it, funny how the seemingly weaker deck had more wins. Also i never saw murlock knight in all of my games, now that's some fucking bullshit
rage.gif
Click to expand...


How do you get perfect pictures of your deck?
 
A

Acinixys

Member
BananasWithGuns said:
Most of the time, yes. There are times he has flat out won me the game and it's very rare he gives me something I can't use or doesn't help me in some way.
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Most spells are pretty great though

Maybe a few warrior, priest and rogue ones are total shit, but if you get anything from Shaman/Mage/Pally your all set
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
how do u guys win with warlock in arena? i know it's not the best class but i like playing other classes for fun. ive got warrior mage and warlock right now and i hate mage but i'm gonna do it just out of necessity, curious what your warlock strats are though bc i get wrecked, tried cheap zoo, decks with lots of healing if possible in them, idk what do the best try and do in arena with him? i didn't have success with that or demon synergy but i mean its all a crapshoot really. hell yesterday i started 0-2 in the hole with a nice paladin deck with ragnaros, close games still, but then i won half a dozen in a row, just depends who you run into. but still i really hate playing mage and paladin and rogue all the time i like trying to have fun with the other decks. i've faced 5 paladins in a row before in arena. its stupid
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
why do they always offer me mad bomber 12 times when i draft mage tbh i'm not a fan at all considering it can just face you 3 times for an average card..
 
T

toddhunter

Member
BananasWithGuns said:
God secret Paladin is so fucking broken.

This shit should have already been nerfed.

Maybe if it was just Mysterious Challenger it wouldn't be a big deal but having to deal with shit like Murloc Knight and Dr. Boom on top of that is just stupid.
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Play regular eboladin and go face.

Seriously, there is basically nothing secret paladin can do. Secrets on turn 6? The game ended on 5.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
I think I just debunked the so called highmane hitting you in the face = win rule yet again. Turn 5 I had 4 recruits on board with QM in hand, his shredder dropped a wild pyro and he coined out highmane.

Was I fucked? No. Did I have aldor? No. Equality? No. My next turn was shielded mini bot and hero power. Highmane hit me 3 times at full attack and despite that crazy good rng off shredder I still won, from being far behind.
 
S

Santiako

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
I think I just debunked the so called highmane hitting you in the face = win rule yet again. Turn 5 I had 4 recruits on board with QM in hand, his shredder dropped a wild pyro and he coined out highmane.

Was I fucked? No. Did I have aldor? No. Equality? No. My next turn was shielded mini bot and hero power. Highmane hit me 3 times at full attack and despite that crazy good rng off shredder I still won, from being far behind.
Click to expand...

I mean, if you were over 25 life on turn 6 Hunter was losing anyway, Higmane hitting face or not.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
I think I just debunked the so called highmane hitting you in the face = win rule yet again. Turn 5 I had 4 recruits on board with QM in hand, his shredder dropped a wild pyro and he coined out highmane.

Was I fucked? No. Did I have aldor? No. Equality? No. My next turn was shielded mini bot and hero power. Highmane hit me 3 times at full attack and despite that crazy good rng off shredder I still won, from being far behind.
Click to expand...
It's not really a rule just like "playing Dr Balanced on turn 7 means you win" isn't a rule.

It's just a high probability win play.
 
M

Mulgrok

Member
My crappy makeshift priest deck took a wallet warrior to death by fatigue 1 turn before I would die to fatigue. Creating 100+ armor didn't help him since I dominated the board the whole time. Guess I controlled the control warrior :p
 
P

poppedcollar69

Member
Isn't there a famous guy named reckful? I just beat a guy with legend card back named reckful playing giants mage.

I played it pretty good for the most part! I procc'd duplicate on thaurissan first, and then on a gnomish inventor (that his sylvannas stole), which was unplayable due to fatigue and I dodged ice block by forcing him to draw twice into fatigue off an acolyte he had dropped to give more targets to my rag, then having rag beat a 50/50 to go face, leaving him at 1
 
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