Make Warsong commander cost 6 mana, fixed.
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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Make Warsong commander cost 6 mana, fixed.
As long as you make mad scientist cost 10.
Any more unreasonable nerfs you guys want?
If Patron is nerfed then they better nerf Boom and Mad Scientist. It is bad enough warrior decks are getting shoehorned into a single variant to remain viable.
I just think that's the easiest way to nerf patron into something reasonable, also I think Scientist is not getting nerfed because it's literally the only reason any secrets see any play at all.
Starving Buzzard was nerfed from 2 mana to 5! It's not unprecedented. 5 mana for a 3/2, it's a joke.
When Tundra Rhino is 5 mana with a body of a 3 drop, Warsong Commander is actually too good in comparison for just 3 and body of a 2 drop. yeah yeah Rhino could give any beast charge, not just 3 or lower attack, good luck playing it.
I think it will be a poor decision to nerf it like that too, as it was with Buzzard, it's too excessive. Make it a 2/2 . That way you can't exploit whirlwind and unstable ghoul as much. That's a a better nerf if you ask me and you can still do the combos and deck will be viable.
When Tundra Rhino is 5 mana with a body of a 3 drop, Warsong Commander is actually too good in comparison for just 3 and body of a 2 drop. yeah yeah Rhino could give any beast charge, not just 3 or lower attack, good luck playing it.
I think it will be a poor decision to nerf it like that too, as it was with Buzzard, it's too excessive. Make it a 2/2 . That way you can't exploit whirlwind and unstable ghoul as much. That's a a better nerf if you ask me and you can still do the combos and deck will be viable.
Rhino is 4 mana in stats not 3, just like warsong is 2 mana in stats
A 2/2 nerf seems much more agreeable. It doesn't kill the deck but it takes it down a notch when you get to wave after wave of patrons coming out. Pehaps make berserker a 2/3 as well so it isn't so easy to get OTK'd.
Isn't it 2/5?
A question:
I watch some streamers on youtube and they usually have their decklist on the right and when a card is drawn it takes it out of the list, so essentially they can see what cards they have left.
Is this a add on of some sort or done for the viewers post production? I play on phone and ipad so I wouldn't know.
I watch some streamers on youtube and they usually have their decklist on the right and when a card is drawn it takes it out of the list, so essentially they can see what cards they have left.
Is this a add on of some sort or done for the viewers post production? I play on phone and ipad so I wouldn't know.
Patron is reasonable
God forbid there's ever a slighty meta-changing deck that isn't braindead aggro garbage
God forbid there's ever a slighty meta-changing deck that isn't braindead aggro garbage
This is the only angle I could possibly get behind, and even such a seemingly minor change has big implications. Making Frothing a 2/3 is the fairer one I would say, if the opponent floods two whirlwind effects are still enough for a major punish while you'd limit the OTK potential against Priests who do nothing all game and then whine about getting demolished on reddit.
So al-Alakir is 3.5 mana in stats?
Rhino has charge, warsong doesn't. Charge is 2 points of stats below vanilla , often more. (see bluegill vs any 3/2, wolfrider vs any 3/4 etc...)
Rhino doesn't have charge, it gains charge because is a beast! ;p
you want to argue this all you want, it doesn't change that it's a too slow card and bad compared with warsong that gives charge to anything you summon. In comparison, what beasts you can summon? Ball of Spiders? Razorfen Hunter? oh animal companion, all for total of 8 mana for one additional beast, which can have charge for 33% chance anyway. Highmane deathrattle? ok.
It's fairly obvious the effect is worse for the mana cost compared with warsong. But ok it has 2 charge attack itself big deal.
Edit: And then there is the difference that warsong gives permanent charge while rhino's effect is only good until it's alive. That's a pretty big difference. If you copy a berserker for example, it still has charge and you can attack right there.
you want to argue this all you want, it doesn't change that it's a too slow card and bad compared with warsong that gives charge to anything you summon. In comparison, what beasts you can summon? Ball of Spiders? Razorfen Hunter? oh animal companion, all for total of 8 mana for one additional beast, which can have charge for 33% chance anyway. Highmane deathrattle? ok.
It's fairly obvious the effect is worse for the mana cost compared with warsong. But ok it has 2 charge attack itself big deal.
Edit: And then there is the difference that warsong gives permanent charge while rhino's effect is only good until it's alive. That's a pretty big difference. If you copy a berserker for example, it still has charge and you can attack right there.
Yeah I don't see the huge issue with Patron. I've placed it a decent amount of times in ranked and am probably 50/50 against it. Some of the wins are from people that have no clue how to play the deck and just beat themselves. But the only time I really lose is when they get the draws they need before I can kill them. I know when I'm against a patron that I gotta be aggressive and try to kill them before the patron dream pull happens, if they don't draw what they need then I win. Not a lot different than other combo heavy reliant decks, people act as if it's an unbeatable deck when it's really just one that only wins when they get the draws they need.
Only nerf I think that would be ok would be some kind of draw nerf, but the mechanics of the other cards don't need to be touched.
Oil is a bad card only in a vacuum. What people weren't recognizing at the time was how well it scaled with Blade Flurry. In arena oil is bad because you aren't going to get that consistency with Blade Flurry.
crazygambit
Member
Yes it's an add-on.
Generally Blizzard starts nerfing decks once the meta entirely changes to combat it and it's still considered #1, so I'd be pretty surprised if Patron doesn't get nerfed.
By comparison, it didn't take much to throw Mech Mage out the window meta wise, and Dr. Boom is not a deck type. Similarly, secret decks aren't in the dominant position either, and we'd likely see way less mages without them.
By comparison, it didn't take much to throw Mech Mage out the window meta wise, and Dr. Boom is not a deck type. Similarly, secret decks aren't in the dominant position either, and we'd likely see way less mages without them.
No, then it becomes inconsistent garbage like Math Warrior. Probably even worse.
The most likely change is just putting back Warsong to how it used to work (played units get charge, summoned units don't).
Frothing getting to big numbers isn't so much the issue as it is that in combination with being able to wipe an entire board with patrons while having seven units afterwards.
Frothing getting to big numbers isn't so much the issue as it is that in combination with being able to wipe an entire board with patrons while having seven units afterwards.
I could be wrong, but I suspect the reason it's taking so long to nerf Patron is that they don't want to destroy the deck.
It's a challenging deck to play well that is unique. It finally gave Warriors something besides control, so that you can no longer queue in to a warrior and immediately start planning for shield slams and Baron Geddon.
I think they're looking for ways to tone it down without breaking it entirely. Making frothing berserker unchargeable, for instance, would completely wreck the deck, not just tone it down a notch. It wouldn't just drop down a peg at that point, it would exit the meta, period.
It's a challenging deck to play well that is unique. It finally gave Warriors something besides control, so that you can no longer queue in to a warrior and immediately start planning for shield slams and Baron Geddon.
I think they're looking for ways to tone it down without breaking it entirely. Making frothing berserker unchargeable, for instance, would completely wreck the deck, not just tone it down a notch. It wouldn't just drop down a peg at that point, it would exit the meta, period.
That's what I want to believe but they took half a year to nerf Undertaker, the most broken piece of shit this game has ever seen. We also know that Blizzard doesn't like decks that at some point deal high face damage - which really means any combo deck because what else could be the goal given Hearthstone's ruleset?
I say that if they touch it they're gonna wreck it, but I hope I'm proven wrong.
The deck they had the most success nerfing repeatedly was Hunter, where despite the various nerfs it's received over the years, the archetypes have largely remained.
Freeze Mage eventually came back despite the nerfs as well, though it took a while.
I wonder if they're going to try to make people use Axe Flingers instead though since they seem very excited about that card every time they're asked. Have we seen any new Warrior cards besides the weapon for this expansion?
Freeze Mage eventually came back despite the nerfs as well, though it took a while.
I wonder if they're going to try to make people use Axe Flingers instead though since they seem very excited about that card every time they're asked. Have we seen any new Warrior cards besides the weapon for this expansion?
With that deal you're getting 10 packs more than you usually would at that price, so they're effectively the bonus, yes.
"My arena run paid itself twice over and then some? WHAT A HORRIBLE INJUSTICE."
I started playing last month, and here's what I recommend:
- Watch the Trump Teachings video series in the OP. Single most useful link in there for new players.
- Read the reddit newbie guide to know what your first steps should be (do the beginner quests, beat the PC on expert, unlock all the basic cards, save up for the first Naxx wing, etc)
- If you want great decks using just the basic cards so that you have a strong base to begin with, check this page out.
So to bring it back to TGT, I think some are being far too negative towards the set so far. I noted that somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of GvG cards proved "playable," in that they were part of popular decks in the meta for at least some period of time. It doesn't have to be in the meta 100% of the time; for instance, I would argue Goblin Blast mage was clearly a successful card even though mech mage is not currently in the meta as it once was.
With that in mind:
Tuskarr Totemic is the one card I am confident will be a staple in decks, in that it won't just be part of some particular archetype but will become a staple for virtually all Shaman decks of any kind. The value is extreme.
I think Holy Champion, Totem Golem, Lock and Load, Justicar Trueheart, Fjola Lightbane and Eydis Darkbane, Fallen Hero, Panther Rider, Argent Horserider and Effigy are all "look promising" cards, in that they aren't slam dunks like Tuskarr but they seem plausible depending on how the meta shakes out as we see all the cards.
Then there are a bunch of inspire cards which aren't yet clearly playable but could be if things gel as the rest of the set is shown. Given that we've only seen about 35 cards so far, I don't think this is bad at all. History suggests something like 8 of these cards should see play, and I think that's entirely plausible.
With that in mind:
Tuskarr Totemic is the one card I am confident will be a staple in decks, in that it won't just be part of some particular archetype but will become a staple for virtually all Shaman decks of any kind. The value is extreme.
I think Holy Champion, Totem Golem, Lock and Load, Justicar Trueheart, Fjola Lightbane and Eydis Darkbane, Fallen Hero, Panther Rider, Argent Horserider and Effigy are all "look promising" cards, in that they aren't slam dunks like Tuskarr but they seem plausible depending on how the meta shakes out as we see all the cards.
Then there are a bunch of inspire cards which aren't yet clearly playable but could be if things gel as the rest of the set is shown. Given that we've only seen about 35 cards so far, I don't think this is bad at all. History suggests something like 8 of these cards should see play, and I think that's entirely plausible.
I think Panther Rider will be an auto 1-of, if not 2-of in most druid decks. The Totem Golem is also a really good card. Effigy looks pretty great (but I'm not sure if decks that play duplicate would prefer it over duplicate), and I really want the "better hero power" dude to work. The 4/3 warlock card can also work in a more aggressive zoo deck. And Darkbane could be decent in some deck.
We haven't seen a lot of great cards, but I'm sure we will see some goodies. My real concern is that Inspire seems to be too slow to play, and Inspire cards can be bad tempo because they're generally costed too high for their abilities/stats if you ignore inspire, so if the opponent kills it before you get off the Inspire a couple times, it's kind of worthless. That's why Battlecry, Deathrattle and "end of turn" effects are on most all-purpose cards in top decks.
(edit: by panther rider i mean aspirant, see below)
We haven't seen a lot of great cards, but I'm sure we will see some goodies. My real concern is that Inspire seems to be too slow to play, and Inspire cards can be bad tempo because they're generally costed too high for their abilities/stats if you ignore inspire, so if the opponent kills it before you get off the Inspire a couple times, it's kind of worthless. That's why Battlecry, Deathrattle and "end of turn" effects are on most all-purpose cards in top decks.
(edit: by panther rider i mean aspirant, see below)
schadenfood
Member
Got a watch-and-learn quest when I re-rolled. Anybody feel like having an audience this morning?
Edit: My handle is iambobbarker#1468
Edit: My handle is iambobbarker#1468
I'm manhack#1706 on US and EU.
Anyone who wants feel free to add me for spectate. not sure when I'll play today, but I will at some point.
Just wait for Eydis and Fjola!
It's true
While you can't play around multiple Flamestrikes unless maybe as Priest and it's infuriating when they have a tempo answer to each of your drops - including favorable rng rolls on stuff like Flamecannon and Arcane Missiles - Paladin's way too common bullshit starts are something else.
What we need is an accelerator that allows the 'inspire' effect of the next card you play to trigger for free - something similar to Dragon Consort except neutral. It would effectively be a 2 mana cost-reduction (hero power not included). I believe that approach would be preferable to a Mechwarper-like card which consistently lowers the cost and allows for snowball effects.
I would put tempo mage in the same category as ebolapaladin: they can have turn 1/2/3 plays which are nearly unbeatable.
Turn 1 mana wyrm + coin mirror + entity, turn 2 sorcerer's apprentice, turn 3 flamewaker + arcane missiles is very, very tough.
I feel like both those decks are somewhat akin to old undertaker decks, where if they draw right then it's clear by turn 3 that the game is over.
Turn 1 mana wyrm + coin mirror + entity, turn 2 sorcerer's apprentice, turn 3 flamewaker + arcane missiles is very, very tough.
I feel like both those decks are somewhat akin to old undertaker decks, where if they draw right then it's clear by turn 3 that the game is over.
Any idea what the best one is called?
If you play only on phone/tablet, then you're SOL. It's a windows PC program called Hearthstone Deck Tracker.
while both can have insane openings, paladin has far too many possible combos so much that it's not as draw dependent as a tempo mage. Pretty much everything combos together for paladin, some better than other and you have the most insane card draw which tempo mage doesn't have. It's a lot worse.
Divine shield is a real challenge to deal with early in the game, it slows you down considerably. Secrets and mirror images are not as cheap or effective actually. And then comes weapons paladin has.
Sure you get some insane draws for tempo mage that flamewaker like deal 10 damage by itself in a single turn, it's not very consistent though.
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