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[Mobius and pet octopus]

I don't care if that card would make Shaman broken right now or not. There are certain lines Blizzard should not cross. 0 mana draw a card is one of them.

A 0 mana cantrip is particularly problematic I think. But it wouldn't be completely unwarranted. But... when you combine the cantrip with another card I think it is likely way too good. I'm not completely against the idea of a 0 mana cantrip, it just might be incredibly hard to walk the line between very good and very bad.

I think if any class deserves a 0 mana cantrip, it would be rogue because at least at that point they have consistent combo enabler and one that doesn't have such high situational value such as backstab and prep. And since rogue is in a position where they are far less consistent than other decks, I wouldn't be really against them getting a card that helps their consistency.

I'm against that shaman card because overload is particularly better than people give credit for and giving them an easy answer is probably way too much for shaman. But then to give it card draw on top of it... like I said - innervate with card draw is broken.

 

[_DrMario_]

All the balance.

Free pack for Japanese Hearthstone release follow link for instructions

"AssesTorn"

 

[JoeMartin]

Imagine how broken innervate would be if it also drew a card.

I'm also going to imagine if shaman had wild growth or darnassus aspirant or ancient of lore or combo, or had any mechanic that did something other than enable them to win harder in a game they were already winning.

 

[Santiako]

A 0 mana cantrip would be awesome for rogue and Tempo mage. I approve.

 

[Yoshichan]

Um, I'm noticing a few small changes in some of the boards... when was this changed?

The small fire next to the golem tent is now much more "bright".

The trees sway left and right in that map as well.

The bolt in the GvG map can now be thrown back into the circuit.

Anything else?

 

[Minsc]

Really confused why they didn't just put Murloc Knight in to Shaman and made it 3 mana overload 1 (could be played turn 2 with coin w/o inspire and followed up with hero power turn 3, or turn 4/5 w/ coin w/ inspire), heaven forbid they actually give shaman a direction to head for more than a single expansion.

That would have done more for shaman than any of the minions they got in TGT.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Um, I'm noticing a few small changes in some of the boards... when was this changed?

The small fire next to the golem tent is now much more "bright".

The trees sway left and right in that map as well.

The bolt in the GvG map can now be thrown back into the circuit.

Anything else?

The most recent patch they added all that. Good to see Blizzard fixing the big issues, like minor tweaks to the playing boards

 

[Tacitus_]

Um, I'm noticing a few small changes in some of the boards... when was this changed?

The small fire next to the golem tent is now much more "bright".

The trees sway left and right in that map as well.

The bolt in the GvG map can now be thrown back into the circuit.

Anything else?

The most recent patch they added all that. Good to see Blizzard fixing the big issues, like minor tweaks to the playing boards

They upgraded their Unity version so some of the changes come from that.

 

[ParityBit]

I really suck. I can't beat Kel'Thuzad on normal.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I really suck. I can't beat Kel'Thuzad on normal.

Naw you just need to get lucky, KT is made to be a rather unfair but fun fight

 

[krameriffic]

Some real esports going on in the Kibler tournament right there.

 

[_DrMario_]

Goddamn the cringe combo of Eloise and Trump casting.

 

[ParityBit]

Naw you just need to get lucky, KT is made to be a rather unfair but fun fight

I am trying. Some Druid build I found online. No luck so far.

 

[mike23]

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/ki1s0o

Drafted this deck in arena for my second arena run, basically trusting in Hearth Arena. 2-0 so far. I'm taking it slow, trying to used to playing rogue.

It seems like a very good deck to me. Good board clears and removal. 2x North Sea Krakens. I'm hoping to go 6+ wins, but we'll see.
The only choice I think I was torn over was pick 10 with Wild Pyromancer vs Questing Adventurer.

Any tips/suggestions for playing this deck that might help me not be terrible?

 

[Onion_Relish]

I had a feeling today that if I bought a pack I would get something good. Pulled a Troggzor from a single GVG pack. Are there any fun decks that use this card? I know its not a ladder meta card, but every time I think about the card I come to the conclusion that it can't possibly be that bad. I'm thinking of throwing it in secret paladin for doctor 7.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

I had a feeling today that if I bought a pack I would get something good. Pulled a Troggzor from a single GVG pack. Are there any fun decks that use this card? I know its not a ladder meta card, but every time I think about the card I come to the conclusion that it can't possibly be that bad. I'm thinking of throwing it in secret paladin for doctor 7.

You can probably throw Troggzor into just about any midrange or control deck and have success with it. He's just not a broken card which is almost what it takes to actually see high level play these days.

 

[Triz]

Just had a player in arena use the minion that silences demons on a 9/12 void terror. I had to well played considering he actually drafted that card. Never thought I'd see anyone use it. I still won haha.

 

[JoeMartin]

Xixo just won a game in a tournament with thaddius. He actually got to hit face with thaddius.

 

[Onion_Relish]

Xixo just won a game in a tournament with thaddius. He actually got to hit face with thaddius.

Naxx out PogChamp

 

[Pooya]

Xixo has been doing great since getting fired by Amaz, lol.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'm also going to imagine if shaman had wild growth or darnassus aspirant or ancient of lore or combo, or had any mechanic that did something other than enable them to win harder in a game they were already winning.

I really don't see the point you're trying to make. If you're stating they have no comeback mechanics, then you're ignoring lightning storm and hex, but what that has to do with what I stated about a clearly OP card is not even clear in the least.

 

[Levi]

Got my first level 60 hero: Druid.

Both my Warrior and Mage are over 50.

Still quite far from a golden hero.

 

[Pooya]

If Shaman just got Murloc Knight alone from this set along with other things they got they would be in a good spot when you had a mid game threat like that combined with thunder bluff, it makes too much sense. Now murloc knight is a great card that doesn't see as much play because paladins have too much good shit now they don't have room for it, maybe include one at times.

It would also be better for arena where not all this much power is added to an already strong class. I have no idea what was their line of thinking adding the card to paladin, it makes no sense. Probably something along the lines of it's a knight, it's grand tournament we want paladin theme HAHAHAHAHA as was repeated several times by Brode. There is no sensible reason for the decision that I can think of. They really value these kind of reasons over game balance at times I guess, but even if that's the reason, murlocs actually belong to shaman class.

I bet when they finally add some more decent pirates, they won't be for rogue because HAHAHAHA.

 

[toddhunter]

It would also be better for arena where not all this much power is added to an already strong class. I have no idea what was their line of thinking adding the card to paladin, it makes no sense.

The card is ok, the rarity is what is messed up for Arena. Now it seems to come down to who can draft the most of them.

But I think the decision comes from developmental realities and Blizzard lagging behind what is going on with the game.

 

[manhack]

If Shaman just got Murloc Knight alone from this set along with other things they got they would be in a good spot when you had a mid game threat like that combined with thunder bluff, it makes too much sense. Now murloc knight is a great card that doesn't see as much play because paladins have too much good shit now they don't have room for it, maybe include one at times.

Yeah I really feel murloc knight would of been an amazing shaman card that works well with the previous theme of "murloc shaman" from GvG.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

If Shaman just got Murloc Knight alone from this set along with other things they got they would be in a good spot when you had a mid game threat like that combined with thunder bluff, it makes too much sense. Now murloc knight is a great card that doesn't see as much play because paladins have too much good shit now they don't have room for it, maybe include one at times.

It would also be better for arena where not all this much power is added to an already strong class. I have no idea what was their line of thinking adding the card to paladin, it makes no sense. Probably something along the lines of it's a knight, it's grand tournament we want paladin theme HAHAHAHAHA as was repeated several times by Brode. There is no sensible reason for the decision that I can think of. They really value these kind of reasons over game balance at times I guess, but even if that's the reason, murlocs actually belong to shaman class.

I bet when they finally add some more decent pirates, they won't be for rogue because HAHAHAHA.

You can sum it up in two images honestly. Blizzard has no clue.

 

[Minsc]

Blizzard still has no clue about overload either (tbh, a lot of people here still think it's not as bad as it is, it is a HORRIBLE mechanic, I'd argue more crippling than a hypothetical discarding mechanic which they don't even put in the game, and should be made up for in spades, and isn't - ever). Take overload off the Shaman murloc above, and it's still inferior to the Paladin one. Without the overload! With it, it is just a joke. The only time the shaman one is a good card is when it pops out of the paladin one for free.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Siltfin is baffling. Why ever play that over Cult Master...?

 

[Dahbomb]

Siltfin is baffling. Why ever play that over Cult Master...?

Because it's a Murloc itself and it has much better stats than Cult Master. If you are playing a Murloc deck then you are probably running almost entirely Murlocs in it so this card is fine in it.

 

[ParityBit]

Is there any way to know what 100 gold quests you still have? Like when you beat all the normal practice matches.

 

[toddhunter]

Finally found a deck to play Deathwing in.

Counter Hunter

2x Tracking - To get answers
2x Bloodsair Corsair - To counter weapons.
2x Injured Kvaldir - Counter circle of healing.
2x Secretkeeper - Counter secrets
2x Flare - Counter Secrets
2x Snip - Counter Patron warrior
2x Ooze - Counter weapons
2x Owl - Counter buffs
2x BGH - Counter giants
2x Blood Knight - Counter shields
2x MCT - Counter aggro
2x Sabotuer - Counter inspire
1x Core Rager - Counter running out of cards
2x Kezan Mystic - Counter secrets
1x Harrison Jones - Counter weapons
1x Dr Boom - Counter everything
1x Deathwing - Counter only deathwing winning a game

 

[Haunted]

You can sum it up in two images honestly. Blizzard has no clue.

Well, Neptulon synergy makes a Shaman murloc automatically better, and it's part of the GvG set, so it wasn't affected by the latest power creep.

Still, an unplayable card.

 

[Haly]

Shredder into Snowchugger vs Mech Mage.

You just have to laugh.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

You can sum it up in two images honestly. Blizzard has no clue.

Blizzard learned their lesson with toning down draw engines. I don't blame them for doing that. Sometimes they just print bad cards and I guess Silftin is a bad card. At 3 + 1, I could see it being very playable though. When a card is 1 mana off from being pretty good, they got close but missed it slightly. Hell, maybe it is even fine as it is but I've never seen a murloc centric shaman deck tbh.

I don't think the overload is the problem though.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Blizzard still has no clue about overload either (tbh, a lot of people here still think it's not as bad as it is, it is a HORRIBLE mechanic, I'd argue more crippling than a hypothetical discarding mechanic which they don't even put in the game, and should be made up for in spades, and isn't - ever). Take overload off the Shaman murloc above, and it's still inferior to the Paladin one. Without the overload! With it, it is just a joke. The only time the shaman one is a good card is when it pops out of the paladin one for free.

In theory, overload is a nice idea. Mortgage future mana to cheat out better cards earlier. There's just a couple major issues with it.

First, Druid just flat out does it better. They can cheat out anything with Wild Growth, Darnassus Aspirant and Innervate so they're not restricted to just getting out class cards early. Not to mention doing so doesn't affect their future turns.

Second, most of the overload cards are crap. The majority of the minions are just piles of stats that don't really do anything other than look mean. Most of the spells are underwhelming as well. A lot of them have a cost that is too high and the rest are complete RNG fests that can rarely be relied on without rolling for a spell power totem.

The only truly good overload cards are probably Doomhammer and Neptulon but it has less to do with being able to get them out early and more to do with them just being good cards in spite of their overload. Maybe you could put Totem Golem and Lightning Storm in that category as well but honestly I think they only see play because of Shaman's lack of real options to replace them.

 

[dimb]

Stacking Murloc Knight up against Silfin Spiritwalker is less about bad cards existing and more about the disparity between the good cards and the bad cards in this game. It also sort of showcases this other problem I see emerging with Hearthstone where simplicity rules all.

When stuff like Cult Master came in to play it did feel like there was more in determining when to drop the card and the value with trading away certain cards. Silfin carries the same mechanic, and part of the reason cards like that don't see use is that complexity creates a card that demands nuance and the right situation to be played. You play a card, ideally on curve, and if it's not immediately useful it's usually trash. With this in mind most cards are immediately rendered irrelevant. Right now Hearthstone feels like you play a power card, and the more efficient it is the better. That's all.

The game is actually becoming simpler in a lot of ways. Murloc Knight is just that. Drop the card down and mash the hero power button. Pray to the RNG gods that your efficiency will truly be maximized with something like another Murloc Knight or a free Silfin.

Simplicity as the reigning king over Hearthstone also hurts stuff like Overload as a mechanic. In theory players need to think ahead and pull mana from their pool in the future for power spikes at specific points in the game. In practice Shamans will just drop one more more Overload cards to make a winning move where the next turn doesn't matter. This is the only natural way for Overload to fit into Hearthstone where each turn asks for a powerful play.

 

[JoeMartin]

Blizzard learned their lesson with toning down draw engines. I don't blame them for doing that. Sometimes they just print bad cards and I guess Silftin is a bad card. At 3 + 1, I could see it being very playable though. When a card is 1 mana off from being pretty good, they got close but missed it slightly. Hell, maybe it is even fine as it is but I've never seen a murloc centric shaman deck tbh.

I don't think the overload is the problem though.

Removal which is cheaper than overload minions (before the overload !!) is ubiquitous. With no effective means for swinging tempo in the other direction, overload is literally only ever a liability. The only two truly tempo cards that shaman has are hex and fire elemental, which, it should come as no surprise, are present in nearly 100% of shaman decks and have no overload.

The only overload card that is reliably played is lightning storm, and that's only because shaman has no alternative board clear short of running both elemental destruction and lavashock and being able to combo them. Forgiving that, it's dependence on RNG and/or spellpower to actually clear makes lighting storm unreliable, and unreliability is a dysfunctional means to restoring control/tempo.

Type overload in the card search and take stock of the two full pages of card no one plays if they can help it. And for good reason.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Stacking Murloc Knight up against Silfin Spiritwalker is less about bad cards existing and more about the disparity between the good cards and the bad cards in this game. It also sort of showcases this other problem I see emerging with Hearthstone where simplicity rules all.

When stuff like Cult Master came in to play it did feel like there was more in determining when to drop the card and the value with trading away certain cards. Silfin carries the same mechanic, and part of the reason cards like that don't see use is that complexity creates a card that demands nuance and the right situation to be played. You play a card, ideally on curve, and if it's not immediately useful it's usually trash. With this in mind most cards are immediately rendered irrelevant. Right now Hearthstone feels like you play a power card, and the more efficient it is the better. That's all.

The game is actually becoming simpler in a lot of ways. Murloc Knight is just that. Drop the card down and mash the hero power button. Pray to the RNG gods that your efficiency will truly be maximized with something like another Murloc Knight or a free Silfin.

Simplicity as the reigning king over Hearthstone also hurts stuff like Overload as a mechanic. In theory players need to think ahead and pull mana from their pool in the future for power spikes at specific points in the game. In practice Shamans will just drop one more more Overload cards to make a winning move where the next turn doesn't matter. This is the only natural way for Overload to fit into Hearthstone where each turn asks for a powerful play.

I think you're looking at one thing a little bit wrong. There are a lot of cards that you can play off curve. And even more important than playing on curve, very often, is utilizing all your mana in meaningful ways. So if I have a fireguard destroyer and a shredder on turn 4, I am likely to play destroyer and then shredder. And that is still a powerful turn to play shredder because I've utilized all my mana. Alternatively, I can play shredder and then follow up with azure drake. And later find a spot to get destroyer to fit into the curve because at 6 mana I can play it and a 2 drop or spell.

If shaman's deck is built properly, they can curve out fine and take advantage of overload in a meaningful way. Instead people look at the mechanic and see it as clunky because they aren't taking advantage of it the correct way. Its like a druid innervating out a minion when that innervate is better suited to wait a turn and make the druid curve out perfectly. If you play a deck wrong, it will always seem clunky.

 

[Miletius]

I think the problem with overlord, is that bargaining with your mana is that it hurts more when it doesn't go according to plan. I think that's why you see most overlord cards as spells. L storm, Crackle, Bolt are all pretty useful because they don't need to stick on the board . Fireguard, Earth Elemental are less so because if it gets removed it's really devastating to your game plan. Wolves sort of straddle the middle.

I think overlord minions probably just need to be sticker or have better effects. The overlord mechanic isn't inherently bad, it's just that current overlord minions aren't good enough to justify the cost, even if it's deferred over 2 or 3 turns.

 

[JoeMartin]

I think you're looking at one thing a little bit wrong. There are a lot of cards that you can play off curve. And even more important than playing on curve, very often, is utilizing all your mana in meaningful ways. So if I have a fireguard destroyer and a shredder on turn 4, I am likely to play destroyer and then shredder. And that is still a powerful turn to play shredder because I've utilized all my mana. Alternatively, I can play shredder and then follow up with azure drake. And later find a spot to get destroyer to fit into the curve because at 6 mana I can play it and a 2 drop or spell.

The anecdote provided is a clinical choice; unfortunately, curving perfectly is rarely the case, especially on a class with limited draw. Sometimes the overload card is the only option on a turn where it'll remove your ability to play cards the following turn that you might or might not need, it's a reality that happens often and that gamble is the downfall of the class.

Druids pay mana up front for what they can see with no detriment to the future. Shamans take on mana debt and hope for the best.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The anecdote provided is a clinical choice; unfortunately, curving perfectly is rarely the case, especially on a class with limited draw. Sometimes the overload card is the only option on a turn where it'll remove your ability to play cards the following turn that you might or might not need, it's a reality that happens often and that gamble is the downfall of the class.

Druids pay mana up front for what they can see with no detriment to the future. Shamans take on mana debt and hope for the best.

Shamans don't gamble any more than druids do, at least on their card draw. If a druid doesn't have a good 4 drop, they need to draw into it the same way a shaman might have to draw a 4 drop after playing a card with overload.

Any deck can find them in a funky situation where you have to play off curve some to get back on curve, or vice versa by playing on curve and hoping to draw into a card that is playable on curve. You just have to account for overload and that is a very simple thing to do, although it can be more complicated than without which is why overload is played so terribly wrong very often.

 

[Xanathus]

Had a casino mage practically give me the win thanks to RNG. Esportal'd a Spellslinger which gave me Bane of Doom, then I got Jaraxxus from Bane of Doom.

 

[irfaanator]

demonlock plays doomguard. discards jaraxxus and malganis. feelsbadman lol

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Rogue is doing me work tonight. Stats aren't recording right but I think I am either 8-3 or 9-3.

People talk about how stale the meta is in tgt, but tonight it has been a lot of mech mage fel reaver and druid fel reaver decks, with a sprinkle of tempo mage and a few face/hybrid hunters. This was very different from the last 2 days in my experience.

edit:
Opps, I was looking at the version stats only. 11-4 for rogue tonight across both variations of the same deck (only 1 card difference so pretty minor).

 

[Papercuts]

Have a bgh, 2/1 keeper and a 5/10. Lethal next turn with savage roar but the bombs perfectly snipe the other two minions.

Boy Dr. Boom sure is a fun card to still be dealing with.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Have a bgh, 2/1 keeper and a 5/10. Lethal next turn with savage roar but the bombs perfectly snipe the other two minions.

Boy Dr. Boom sure is a fun card to still be dealing with.

I know those feelings. Had a boom bot snipe a 3/3 and a 3/5. Later in the same game, I played dr. boom and backstabbed a boom bot and hit face for 1 in a 1/7 chance to do so. And all I needed was 1 damage for lethal so it paid him back.

 

[ZealousD]

Blizzard still has no clue about overload either tbh, a lot of people here still think it's not as bad as it is, it is a HORRIBLE mechanic

It's not a horrible mechanic. Blizzard just doesn't know how the fuck to balance with it. It should be a way to cheat out tempo by playing big stuff earlier than you are supposed to. You should be borrowing mana from later turns. The problem is that Blizzard keeps charging interest. All of the good overload cards are essentially costed appropriately for mana cost + overload (e.g. Lightning Bolt, Totem Golem, Fireguard Destroyer, Lightning Storm). All of the bad ones aren't.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

It's not a horrible mechanic. Blizzard just doesn't know how the fuck to balance with it. It should be a way to cheat out tempo by playing big stuff earlier than you are supposed to. You should be borrowing mana from later turns. The problem is that Blizzard keeps charging interest. All of the good overload cards are essentially costed appropriately for mana cost + overload (e.g. Lightning Bolt, Totem Golem, Fireguard Destroyer, Lightning Storm). All of the bad ones aren't.

Yeah, some of the bad ones are inappropriately costed. Even feral spirits is arguably slightly undercosted because compared to DOTC, DOTC has the choice to become a 4/4 charge. Then you have lava burst which is 5 mana total and it only deals 5 damage. A 5 mana damage spell should hit for 6 minimum, or have another benefit on it.

I pretty much agree with you in that overload isn't the problem, it is really some of the cards themselves that are the problem that just happen to have overload.

 

[toddhunter]

tbh, a lot of people here still think it's not as bad as it is, it is a HORRIBLE mechanic

Very true, but you just played:

7 mana - Summon the overload defence force.

Which is stronger than boom and has no real counter.

 

[ZealousD]

I pretty much agree with you in that overload isn't the problem, it is really some of the cards themselves that are the problem that just happen to have overload.

Blizzard has played it very conservatively with overload, generally. Totem Golem is probably as far as they've taken it. And it's a fine card imo. Its only problem is that it is built to answer 2/3's and 3/2's and nobody really plays those in Constructed on Turn 2 right now. It's all about Shielded Minibot, Haunted Creeper, Mad Scientist, Wyrmrest Agent. About the only thing Totem Golem can handle is Knife Juggler and Darnassas Aspirant.