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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks
- Thread starter ZealousD
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TetraxShards
Member
I do, but it's more for fun than anything. Same reason I run Spellslingers. I figure I might as well go full Casino.
The best moment I've had is getting Bolster off Saraad, thinking "That's going to be fucking useless", then my Effigy popped up a Tauren Warrior, then I top decked a Belcher.
In a game today I had a Priest get Beneath the Grounds off a Spellslinger, then all three Nerubians came out one after the other immediately after he played it. I still won, but it was hilarious.
markofhavoc
Member
Oh I know, I watch the tournaments, however Patron is boring to watch, I don't see how people say it is fun.
Victories with Patron feel earned, is my take on it.
In Patron mirrors, as long as draws aren't crazy, you know when you win that you really deserve it. There is nothing like getting the right Brawl, or Rag Snipe, or Portal, or any kind of non-draw RNG shenanigans that swing games, because you lucked out.
Winning with other decks just feel less satisfying. If I win with Dragon Priest it's usually because I curved out. Anyone who plays the deck can attest to how quickly they lose control over the game if they miss that 2-3-4. Same with Handlock. Mountains and Twilight's in the opening hand? In the bag. No? I can still bet on Voidcaller shenanigans. Tempo Mage, if it's not RNG it's perfect draws, or Fireballs to the head. Druid has gotten much more consistent over time as well and the thing with consistency is that it's boring. Finally, nobody got time to play Control Warrior.
I'm not playing to win, although that's a nice side effect. I'm playing to learn and grow. I feel like I can play most other decks at 80% efficiency. Can I reach 90%? Sure, but it's a long climb with diminishing returns. I never felt like I played Patron at even 70% efficiency, and soon I never will. The best part is that even when Patron draws really poorly, it's never really out, so games don't feel decided from the moment the RNG is seeded. My decisions just matter so much more than it does in every other deck.
In Patron mirrors, as long as draws aren't crazy, you know when you win that you really deserve it. There is nothing like getting the right Brawl, or Rag Snipe, or Portal, or any kind of non-draw RNG shenanigans that swing games, because you lucked out.
Winning with other decks just feel less satisfying. If I win with Dragon Priest it's usually because I curved out. Anyone who plays the deck can attest to how quickly they lose control over the game if they miss that 2-3-4. Same with Handlock. Mountains and Twilight's in the opening hand? In the bag. No? I can still bet on Voidcaller shenanigans. Tempo Mage, if it's not RNG it's perfect draws, or Fireballs to the head. Druid has gotten much more consistent over time as well and the thing with consistency is that it's boring. Finally, nobody got time to play Control Warrior.
I'm not playing to win, although that's a nice side effect. I'm playing to learn and grow. I feel like I can play most other decks at 80% efficiency. Can I reach 90%? Sure, but it's a long climb with diminishing returns. I never felt like I played Patron at even 70% efficiency, and soon I never will. The best part is that even when Patron draws really poorly, it's never really out, so games don't feel decided from the moment the RNG is seeded. My decisions just matter so much more than it does in every other deck.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Do you try building and iterating your own deck? I mean, probably 60+% of the skill in hearthstone is deck building. If you want to learn and grow, maybe try not net decking the best deck in the game. It'll even help you when you do net deck. I'm not saying never net deck.
I don't have time, or the cards, to iterate my own decks. I'm still missing all around staples like Harrison and TBK, and I play Fast Druid with 1 Lore. I got my second Cabal Shadow Priest 2 weeks ago.
I play Povertystone. I do dailies every 3 days, and I'll grind a bit at the end of the season for Rank 5, but that's about it. There's no hook for me in this game except waiting for new, interesting decks to pop up.
For example, I want to play Dreadsteedlock but even I'll admit that Patron was holding that deck back. If it seems worthwhile, I'll craft it, but I've been saving dust for other Legendaries like Malygos who also enables decks. Those are just more decks I might miss out on if I craft Dreadsteed on impulse.
I want to play everything, but I don't have the time, so most of my decks are "incomplete". But I have a bit of fun anyway, until I get bored of them.
I play Povertystone. I do dailies every 3 days, and I'll grind a bit at the end of the season for Rank 5, but that's about it. There's no hook for me in this game except waiting for new, interesting decks to pop up.
For example, I want to play Dreadsteedlock but even I'll admit that Patron was holding that deck back. If it seems worthwhile, I'll craft it, but I've been saving dust for other Legendaries like Malygos who also enables decks. Those are just more decks I might miss out on if I craft Dreadsteed on impulse.
I want to play everything, but I don't have the time, so most of my decks are "incomplete". But I have a bit of fun anyway, until I get bored of them.
markofhavoc
Member
This game is getting crazy huge on phone. I usually use my computer, and keep the phone for fun when I am bored and waiting somewhere, but its over 2 gigs and it wants to make an even bigger update and im running out of room. Come on man....crazy
poppedcollar69
Member
so now that a nerf's been announced, how long till the next expansion?
Probably after Blizzcon is a reasonable guess.
Next will be the new adventure mode (like Naxx/BRM) which will probably be announced at Blizzcon and released a few months after that.
The next real expansion (like GvG/TGT) is many months away, probably deep into next year.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Gonna guess December for the adventure. Early January at the latest
Blizzard announces expansions about once every 4 months. We'll probably get a new adventure in December.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Staples like BK and harrison? I barely even remember when black knight was staple or even included in my deck. Pre-gvg for sure. Harrison is not staple either. It is a decent tech choice, but hardly staple.
I'm sure you could make a lot more decks than you'd think. It does take time but it is a rewarding process and takes way more skill than grabbing a netdeck and playing it til you've understand the match ups well enough.
I can't just replace playing Patron and Miracle with deck building in the same way I can't replace DOTA 2 with EU4.
They fulfill different needs, and I don't have a building need right now. Even if I did, Hearthstone would not be my building game of choice! I'd rather play Ascension (pretty good game by the way but Dominion is better) than spend time iterating a deck in this game that's actively hostile to kinds of decks I like to play.
For the record I know you build a lot of your own decks and take them very far in ladder and I have a lot of respect for that, but I just don't think Hearthstone cards are interesting enough to warrant my time. I want synergy, I want combos, I want well oiled rube-goldberg machines.
I don't want to throw some value duders, some removal, and a finisher together and then call it a day. That's boring.
They fulfill different needs, and I don't have a building need right now. Even if I did, Hearthstone would not be my building game of choice! I'd rather play Ascension (pretty good game by the way but Dominion is better) than spend time iterating a deck in this game that's actively hostile to kinds of decks I like to play.
For the record I know you build a lot of your own decks and take them very far in ladder and I have a lot of respect for that, but I just don't think Hearthstone cards are interesting enough to warrant my time. I want synergy, I want combos, I want well oiled rube-goldberg machines.
I don't want to throw some value duders, some removal, and a finisher together and then call it a day. That's boring.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
This aggro druid's luck... has leper gnome innervate swipe to counter my perfect opening. Then on curve fel reaver, top decks silence for sylvanas... happens to have dr. boom already after clearing. And even FON to finish me off.
Seems like an easy switch for me - especially with The Cossacks on the horizon.
Still waiting on a Mongolian expac tbh.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Dude with ragnaros in his mech mage is probably wondering why he is being cock blocked at rank 3.
irfaanator
Banned
battle net says hearthstone team is hiring. thought I should let the thread know so ppl can get a chance to take their suggestions to the top
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
lol, well according to some people here everyone here knows game design better than blizzard does... so...
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I'm glad they nerfed Worsong, but I don't know if I've ever seen anything as overnerfed as this one. As it stands that card is pretty much a contender for top 5 worst cards in hearthstone.
Even in some weird future where cards exist that just summons your board full with charge minions and you're too new to have or understand how to use direwolf, wouldn't you still probably use Raid Leader instead? You don't have to know much about hearthstone at all to realize that one extra health isn't worth the tradeoff of making the Raid Leader's effect way more restrictive.
I understand there might not be a better solution, but they could at least make the stats better.
Even in some weird future where cards exist that just summons your board full with charge minions and you're too new to have or understand how to use direwolf, wouldn't you still probably use Raid Leader instead? You don't have to know much about hearthstone at all to realize that one extra health isn't worth the tradeoff of making the Raid Leader's effect way more restrictive.
I understand there might not be a better solution, but they could at least make the stats better.
lol, well according to some people here everyone here knows game design better than blizzard does... so...
why be a cog in the blizzard machine when we could make our own CCG?
To be fair, I already love to design card and board games on my own, soooo...
Yeah, that seems like the common consensus. Making warsong a 3/4 with the same ability still would not see play, but it'd atleast throw arena warrior the bone it desperately needs, even if warsong would no longer have a soul.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
If they're going to actively balance arena, they should start by cutting the bottom 30 or so cards in the arena format from being possible draws.
edit:
This would make it more about choices between good cards and not between 2 bad and 1 good. etc.
Valeera is the true queen of TGT arena, Uther is just the plebeian's choice because he drafts and plays himself
Proof:
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Not just arena, but also actually making the card a little more enticing in constructed for new people or people who want to have fun trying out bad gimmicky decks.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I got a lorewalker cho off of shredder that I got off of mirror entity. I still shrekt that druid. I have gotten so much bad luck with lorewalker cho that I have actually learned how to play with him, and even in tempo mage I destroyed him. I mean, basically if you are ahead on board, lorewalker cho isn't all that bad tbh. He can't play the spells I give him because he has to remove cho first. And I guess he thought this I was the mage that cho would hurt me because I have lots of spells. That is true, I had double fireball sitting in my hand. But I also had flame cannon and a couple of small minions plus flamewaker.
So he chose to remove flamewaker over cho... which makes perfect sense but I think it also screwed him. I ended up getting a second flamecannon which is an incredible tool against druid. he should have tried something else if he could. But I guess he might have just lacked the alternatives.
So he chose to remove flamewaker over cho... which makes perfect sense but I think it also screwed him. I ended up getting a second flamecannon which is an incredible tool against druid. he should have tried something else if he could. But I guess he might have just lacked the alternatives.
Preamble note, just to keep things in check: I don't play a lot of HS, I certainly don't aspire to achieving a super-competitive, Rank-5 and up kinda deck. I log in once or twice a week and grab dailies and pretty much just play the Brawl and *some* version of Shaman Murloc. Because I find Shaman Murloc fun to piss about with. I spend my hour roaming the friendly forests of Rank 15-10. It's a pleasant place to be, with the occasional interesting deck and not so many Legendaries dropping every other turn. It suits my basic-to-middling card collection and what I'm looking for with my brief playtime. With that said!
My go-to deck at the moment is shown below; it's very definitely Murloc-themed, as is my wont, but also has healthy dollop of Totem synergy that I can focus on if I want to save and combo some Murloc cards a turn or three later. With a few spots of removal/silence. It rarely has issues with card-draw. Works okay-ish. Definitely a lot of fun.
I feel like I'm running out of things to tweak though. I don't want to alter it to the extent that the deck loses its Murloc theme. I could toss in a couple fo Flame Elementals, strong neutrals, blah blah, but at that point it kinda starts becoming 'a Shaman deck with a smattering of Murloc synergy', rather than an Actual Murloc Deck. My access to Legendaries is low, so "Add Boom, add Rag, etc etc" is noteworthy only if you think any single Legendary would be a complete turbo-boost for the deck.
I'm wondering, as a not-so-experienced player that isn't really intimately familiar with all the cards, if there any other cards in the pool that I'm over-looking. Just as an example, I ran a Knife Juggler in the deck for a while and it did well - sometimes - but I recently dropped it in favour of a second Earth Shock.
I guess I'm asking, what tweaks would you make to this deck which also avoid diluting its Murlocky flavour into oblivion?
My go-to deck at the moment is shown below; it's very definitely Murloc-themed, as is my wont, but also has healthy dollop of Totem synergy that I can focus on if I want to save and combo some Murloc cards a turn or three later. With a few spots of removal/silence. It rarely has issues with card-draw. Works okay-ish. Definitely a lot of fun.
I feel like I'm running out of things to tweak though. I don't want to alter it to the extent that the deck loses its Murloc theme. I could toss in a couple fo Flame Elementals, strong neutrals, blah blah, but at that point it kinda starts becoming 'a Shaman deck with a smattering of Murloc synergy', rather than an Actual Murloc Deck. My access to Legendaries is low, so "Add Boom, add Rag, etc etc" is noteworthy only if you think any single Legendary would be a complete turbo-boost for the deck.
I'm wondering, as a not-so-experienced player that isn't really intimately familiar with all the cards, if there any other cards in the pool that I'm over-looking. Just as an example, I ran a Knife Juggler in the deck for a while and it did well - sometimes - but I recently dropped it in favour of a second Earth Shock.
I guess I'm asking, what tweaks would you make to this deck which also avoid diluting its Murlocky flavour into oblivion?
Haunted
Member
More like getting comfortable with the fact that the next 30 packs won't have a legendary.
Rank 5 done on both ladders, done for the month. I've been testing this innovative deck for a few days now since nerf announcement, it's been extremely good with something like 80 percent winrate. Easy rank 5 in a few hours if you need help for that, I'm sure you can hit legend with it relatively easily. It beats everything in current meta except maybe freeze mage if you're unlucky and patron of course which doesn't matter anymore. Enjoy fast fun interactive games. No one can deal with divine favor into Boom and Tirion which I get to pull off consistently, it's so stupid. You' obviously have the advantage against secret paladin as you play 1 drop minions instead of 1 drop secrets and they just die without taunts or heals before they can do anything.
The 30th card is Tirion, it's not visible. I'd probably replace argus or annoy-o-tron with another charge minion in future, probably a second argent but still I like both of those cards, argus in particular is great against swipe.
The 30th card is Tirion, it's not visible. I'd probably replace argus or annoy-o-tron with another charge minion in future, probably a second argent but still I like both of those cards, argus in particular is great against swipe.
I also primarily play Shaman, and rank 10 is my personal best, so what do I know???
1. Lightning Storm is a garbage spell that loses me game after game, but how can I run any less than 2? There is so much aggro and shaman have very few good choices for dealing with it.
2. With so many murlocs and comparably few totems and/or totem producing spells maybe two mukla's and no valiants.
3. Am I crazy for thinking Rockbiter Weapon is a bread and butter shaman card? It's like a baby Fiery Win Axe. Killing a mana wurm, northshire cleric, or mechwarper before they can provide even a teensy bit of value is very satisfying. I'd consider swapping two in for the charging murloc.
markofhavoc
Member
Wow, I have had so much fun with this arena deck with spelleater, I thought it would be terrible but its turned the game in my favor in two separate games (I am playing as warlock)
okay, now it is 4 games I won entirely by spelleater, always against shaman too lol
okay, now it is 4 games I won entirely by spelleater, always against shaman too lol
Thank you! I appreciate the thoughts. And it bothers me that I can totally agree with your "Add 2-4 more Shaman spells" suggestion. My poor, dear murlocs. Perhaps I can drop one of the Coldlight Seers. I feel the card draw on the deck is pretty much Goldilocks right now, but at least if I'm dropping it for, say, a second Lightning Storm then at least that's an Overload card that skews the deck's mana consumption up a fraction. Maybe I'll just try a less Totem-ey deck too, since, as you mention, the synergy with them is less present. Lose the Valiant, and maaaybe the Tuskarr, and one of the crabs. I've found those little 2/1 charge Murlocs earn their keep with everything going on (or maybe I'm just mad biased - probably this).
Servbot #42
Unconfirmed Member
Honestly you could try arena but it takes seven wins to get even with the gold, if you are good enough it is worth it but if you are not it can be rough stuff. Maybe you could try arena once and see how you do?
markofhavoc
Member
At 3 wins you can get 50 gold, and if you consider the pack as a 100 gold investment already, you are doing okay. 7 wins can feel really daunting at first. IMO, nothing feels better than doing good in arena and getting your money back. I went 11-3 last week, and then yesterday went 0-3. It can be all over the map, just accept that sometimes you face a deck that will go 12-0 in your first round.
Edit:....I kind of should have quoted the guy you were quoting, oh well
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