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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks

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Dahbomb

Member
The new Grim Patron deck is a Midrange deck but it's more complex than your standard mid range. There are a lot of synergies and combos you can do with the Whirldwind effects, Armorsmiths, Battle Rage card draw and Grin Patrons. It's still a pretty cool deck.

The meta snapshot is exactly what was expected. Those decks were there when Patron was there. Most notable is Freeze Mage being top of tier 2 as expected. Zoolock is at top of tier 3 but I feel that it's also tier 2 level deck right now.

Shaman in the dumpster.


I'm surprised Zoo isn't making a resurgence now that patron is out of the picture

I guess both new midrange paladin and old ass combo druid shit all over zoo
Zoo is seen on Ladder nowadays for sure. Zoo actually beats Druids and Grim Patron deck is still very uncommon on Ladder. Zoo's main problem is that it loses to Freeze Mage though.
 
I love having tons of options, what would you do in this scenario?

Hearthstone_Screenshot_10_25_15_14_34_23.jpg


I ended up using autobarber to push attack to 4, play free dread corsair, blade flurry, and coin + sap the doomguard that popped out. Pretty complex for a turn 5.
 

Miletius

Member
It's a midrange deck now.

Perhaps it's what they envisioned from Warrior/Enrage in the first place (even if it plays no Enrage guys), but I highly doubt they predicted it would stick around. I just don't think Blizzard has anyone that good at deck building and deck piloting to foresee things like this. They throw darts on a board and sometimes the darts even hit.

Eh, it's just the multiplier force that does it. I think Blizzard (and other developers) have always been upfront that 30 people can't possibly do what millions of people are doing. The probability alone does it for you, even if 999 out of 1000 people are complete idiots at deck making.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Had my first arena run and went 6-3 with a Druid. It was a lot of fun making a deck (even though I didn't roll any epics or legendaries) but man all the games feel so much more tense and losing really sucks, especially when you lose by misplaying.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Top 50% (I don't consider t4 and lower decks playable) makes it hardly one of the strongest decks, but what's much more important is that it's the same deck in name only. Old Patron was a well-rounded, highly complex combo deck while post-nerf "Patron" is just another midrange deck that's slightly more intricate than the average.

I mean...it might as well be a different deck. It has a different playstyle and it's built with a heavy midrange focus instead of looking for combos. Key components of the old deck like Thaurissan were tossed out to make something that has more in common with the midrange Warrior decks we were starting to see take off. For as little as I saw Patron before the nerf I have not seen a single person playing the new iteration on ladder.

Okay, the different deck thing is totally fair.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Yeah, let's nerf Justicar. Because the overall quality of the TGT legendaries isn't crapppy enough already.

What's funny is that I think Blizz could actually tweak what she gives(meaning, change the hero power) without considering her nerfed so people wouldn't get a dust refund.
 

Anilones

Member
Long time lurker, but just wanted to brag that I've made rank 5 for the first time. Can't wait for the end of the month to get my gold epic.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Is Secrets Mage a thing now?

Ran into a few that ran almost every secret they have.

A lot of players try it because they like secrets.

It's a Tier 4 deck most of the time.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I don't think Justicar should get nerfed.

The problem with Justicar is that it doesn't actually improve Warrior's bad match ups but it makes the good match ups even better (minus Face Hunter).

Post Emperor Thaurissan the Freeze Mage vs CW swung towards 8-2 territory. Still pretty bad but much more winnable. With Justicar it's back to being 9-1 damn near unwinnable territory.

I am not a big fan of Freeze Mage but stuff like that is worse for balance than whatever is top of the Ladder at the moment. Game is way too variable for stuff 9-1 match ups to exist.


On another note.. if Warsong Commander can get nerfed (a card which has been nerfed multiple times before) then Savage Roar and/or Force of Nature can get the stick as well. I am like 90% sure MC will get nerfed in the future, probably 2 months after the next major expansion when the cards they print won't match up to Secret Paladin deck.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
If Justicar gets nerfed, it'd be for the same reason Patron got nerfed.

It ruins player experience and the pacing of the game they had in mind. 25 turns of Tank Up and regularly going into fatigue is the potential issue, not how strong/not strong CW is. Too much of that and it gets the axe.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Had some overlapping priest quests, so I quened up and dropped from rank 5 to 7 just to get 4 wins. I literally fought 80% handlocks...what the hell.

Atleast it gave me some pity wins with some hunter matchups afterwards, I guess.
 

Dahbomb

Member
It's exactly two months after TGT's release and I feel now especially after the Warsong Commander nerf it's time I do a posthumous TGT review and how I and others were right/wrong on certain cards/trends post TGT.


I think it's safe to say now that TGT didn't really slow down the game to the level that most people wanted. That is to say that most combo/control decks aren't strong enough to survive against the field of decks that are being played. Gimmick decks are punished even more than they used to.

It's safe to say that the winners of TGT were Paladin and Druids. Before TGT I predicted that Druids and Shamans would be the winner with Paladin coming in 3rd but Mysterious Challenger put Paladin over the top. IMO Shaman still got plenty of good cards but the class itself is still flawed. The new cards Shaman got actually get use in their decks as staples but the decks themselves are tier 4 status. Most other classes remained the same getting a couple of new cards to play with. Rogues and Warlocks gained essentially nothing from TGT but Rogues at least got stronger in the Arena.


I think top 5 cards TGT now that everything has more or less settled are the following (in terms of meta game impact, I would easily add in Thunderbuff Valiant here because I do believe the card is that strong but it doesn't belong in a strong enough deck yet):

1) Mysterious Challenger (I put it at #1 because this card enables a new deck type single handedly and the deck itself is tier 1 status, probably best in the game. This is the Grim Patron of this expansion)
2) Darnassus Aspirant (provides Druids with a needed 2 drop and more consistency in their ramp)
3) Living Roots (another card that you can hit face with, remove minions or flood the board. Amazing in Aggro Druid)
4) Murloc Knight (a staple in Midrange Paladin now and with Warsong nerfed Midrange Paladin is actually pretty strong now. While most Paladins got maximum greed with their aggressive Secret decks, Murloc Knight is still a very strong card. I personally undervalued this card initially because I failed to appreciate the fact that Murloc Knight is himself a Murloc and many of the cards you get from the card have synergistic effects with Murloc Knight that boost the value of the card beyond what you can calculate from raw card stats)
5) Justicar Trueheart (people are now realizing that it's also good in Paladin especially the Midrange version. It's a staple in Control Warrior now.)

Honorable mentions: Wyrmwrest Agent/Chillmaw/Twilight Guardian as they enabled a strong Midrange Priest list which is something that the class really needed. I would also put in Savage Combatant in the honorable mentions list as it's regularly used in both Druid lists.

Other cards have been seeing regular rotation like Competitive Spirit, Bash, Nexus Champion Saraad, Spell Slinger, Argent Horserider, King's Elekk, Bear Trap, Holy Champion, Effigy, Confessor Paeltress, Druid of the Saber and many of the new Shaman cards like Totem Golem, Thunderbuff Valiant, Elemental Destruction, Healing Wave, Tuskar Totemic etc. but they aren't as hugely game changing as the previous cards.


As you can see from the top 5 list... almost all of them are either concentrated in the Druid or the Paladins. And no surprise that those two classes are at the top with multiple deck types.


Now that I listed the top 5, it's time to list the top 5 most OVERRATED cards from when TGT was first announced (including myself). This is the list of cards that people thought would be amazing but now no almost no one is using it.

1) Gormok the Impaler: When people were looking at top Legendaries, Gormok generally made the most top lists. People thought it would be a shoe in for Zoolock lists. Well players did try it but the card felt underwhelming. The requirement is just too steep for the effect.
2) Varian: Almost everyone thought this was a top 5 card in TGT. And who wouldn't, the effect is insane. But the card hasn't performed as well as some people would like in the standard CW list.
3) Eydis Darkbane/Fyola Lightbane: Another set of Legendaries that people thought would be amazing but didn't end up being that strong. There aren't enough cheap buff cards in the game yet and these cards tend to just be worse Spider Tanks in most cases.
4) Pretty much any neutral Inspire, hero power based minion. Maiden of the Lake, Garrison Commander, Fencing Coach, Frost Giant etc.
5) Pretty much any card with Joust on it that isn't King's Elekk. Most people didn't think Joust would be that successful but it has been even more lackluster than initially expected.

Honorable mentions: Polymorph Boar, Mulch and Seal of Champion

I am still a big fan of these cards and I still believe that a card like Mulch is genuinely good but it just doesn't fit into the current top tier Druid decks. There are 3 things that Druids care about... if a card can do damage, if it can draw or if it can ramp. If it doesn't fit into these 3 things then the card won't get played and sadly Mulch can only remove.

Just like Powershot and Dreadscale are amazing control cards but they belong in a class that doesn't care about anything that doesn't do face damage or is ridiculous cheap.


Some of these cards might change around over time of course.


Now let's look at how the new cards have stacked up with staples from before.

Blizzard tried to introduce many interesting 4 drops to compete with Shredder. Well Shredder is still the top dog 4 drop in the game. Savage Combatant, Murloc Knight and Holy Champion are good 4 drops but Shredder is still the best and most commonly used 4 drop. After the Warsong nerf, even more decks are using Shredders because everything has become so tempo driven. So despite Blizzard's efforts, Shredder is still unphased and continues to limit design space for both 4 drops and 2 drops.

As far as Legendaries go, TGT was probably even more underwhelming than GvG. Only one Legendary sees any consistent play and that is Justicar Trueheart. If it was even possible... Blizzard somehow managed to make Dr Balanced even MORE common than it was once was. So Dr Balanced still remains the #1 Legendary in the game by quite a margin.

TGT tried to introduce some Grim Patron counters like Chillmaw but in the end TGT did absolutely nothing to reign in the strength of the deck. Eventually Blizzard was forced to nerf an old card just so the newer decks could shine. Well they succeeded in that front because their new poster boy TGT Mysterious Challenger now has the highest rank among decks.

As far as spells go... TGT failed to introduce many powerful control based spells or at the very least it introduced those spells to classes that had no use for it or it introduced worse versions of already existing spells. We got Enter the Colisseum for a class that doesn't need more board wipes because it has the godlike Equality Consecrate combo. We got Powershot and Dreadscale for a class that doesn't play control. We got Flame Lance for a card that already has efficient removals. We got King's Defender and Bash for a class that already has efficient removal. And we got a bunch of much needed cards for a class that is flawed as hell right now (Shaman). So in general the control aspect of TGT failed because it introduced a lot of redundant or less efficient cards than before. That's one of the main reasons why aggro/tempo has been so rampant, the deterrents were never really presented to begin with.

TGT actually didn't introduce many aggressive cards yet still has caused there to be an aggressive meta. Argent Horserider, Lance Carrier, Competitive Spirit, Brave Archer, Living Roots are some of the few aggressive cards they introduced but most of these aren't really used all that much. The reason for the increased aggressive meta is a combination of a Warsong nerf which opened the floodgates for aggro to get out of control and the lack of good answers to aggro from TGT in general.


Other failed experiments of TGT (well currently that is, note that many of these can and will change in the future with more cards):

*Pirate Rogue - Still gimmick status.
*Discard Warlock - Even worse than gimmick status.
*Jousting in general is a failed mechanic.
*Grinder Rogue - They introduced the Nerubian cards for Rogue it's less than gimmicks status at the moment.
*Control/Spell based Hunter - Nope, still not a class that can run a decent Control game.
*Taunt based Warrior deck - Nope.
*Inspire/spell damage based Mage deck - Nope.
*Shadow Form priest - Still not there yet.


Successful experiments of TGT:

*Secret based Paladin deck
*An aggressive Druid deck (though not the way that Blizzard probably wanted)
*Token based Paladin deck (somewhat successful in the form of Midrange Paladin)
*Beast Hunter (somewhat successful in the form of Midrange Hunter, we do see some of the newer Beast cards used like Bear Trap, King's Elekk and Ram Wrangler)
*Heal based Priest deck (successful in the form of the new Control Priest that has used Holy Champion is a major threat, see Zetalot's list that he took to rank 1 EU Legend)
*Totem Shaman - It's a tier 4 deck but there's at least something here. The new totem cards introduced are definitely strong. This deck is a few cards from being completely legitimate. It just needs a Muster for Totem or a Silverhand Regent equivalent of Totems.



Conclusion: TGT had some impact on the meta by introducing a few new deck types (Secret Paladin and Dragon Priest) but in general it didn't change the meta enough to get use out of most of the cards that were introduced. Most of the previous strong decks received limited changes except for Midrange Druid which received 3 new cards to play around with and thus increasing its power level (Living Roots, Darnassus Aspirant and Savage Combatant). Control Warrior got Bash, Variant and Justicar where as Midrange Paladin got a few new tools as well. Classic decks like Handlock, Freeze Mage, Oil Rogue received almost no new good tools. Only a few of the Inspire cards are being used and Joust, a mechanic put in to counter aggro, was a massive failure. Many of the tribal or synergistic cards they introduced weren't very successful. More importantly the spells they introduced were extremely lackluster which has resulted in a meta game that is extremely tempo/aggro oriented. It's all about playing minions on curve now and finishing games quick... card draws, heals, big Legendary drops or just in general value plays be damned. Shredder is still the best 4 drop, Dr Balanced is still the best Legendary. Druid and Paladins were the clear winner of this expansion because they got some very strong cards for their stronger deck types. Shaman also got some very obviously strong cards but the class is obviously very flawed as a whole and thus struggles to make anything work. It's hard to pick the biggest loser of TGT between Warlock and Rogue. Rogue and Warlock got absolutely nothing new for Constructed in terms of high end decks but Rogues at least got much better in Arena where as Warlocks got worse in Arena and worse in Constructed.

To talk about Arena, Paladin and Rogues got a lot stronger and Mage got weaker. Warriors actually got a lot weaker if that was even possible. Arena meta is also very tempo driven and the one who gets their board to stick generally wins due to all the Inspire minions that allow you to win more. With less good spells to comeback with, Arena is also all about tempo and Rogues are excellent at tempo and thus easily a top 3 class with Mage and Paladin, though Rogues are harder to play with. Paladin is the most popular class on Arena and probably the best overall class as well for the average player. Arena tier list is pretty much Rogue, Paladin and Mage as top 3, everyone else with Druid having a lot of consistency and then Warrior in the irrelevant, never ever pick tier.


TL;DR version of TGT:

QMRRugL.png
 

Dreavus

Member
Good analysis.

The failed deck archetypes is what gets me. For example, they clearly wanted "discard" warlock to be a thing, with a 2-3 cards in support of it, but when you try them all in a deck it's passable at best. Pirate Rogue got a couple cards but it's still not worth building a deck around. I don't know why they didn't give these new decks a key card to construct around like Mysterious Challenger. It wasn't terribly obvious that MC would be the powerhouse he is right from the get go, but comparing him to something like Dark bargain it's clear that he does a lot more for pushing the deck type than the tools other deck-types got.

It's just frustrating design. If you're going to support something with new cards then give them something great to be worth building around. If you give a new deck half-assed tools it's no wonder that they're going to be slaughtered by established decks that have been refined to hell and back.
 
Ugh fuck Paladin in arena what a disgusting class.

Coins shielded then turn 2 another 1 then argent rider on turn 3.

Make mini bot a fucking 2/1 or some shit.
 

Duster

Member
Good analysis.
Do you think there's a chance some of the TGT cards with less than three attack may find their way into the meta after the Patron nerf?


And thanks for advice on combating arena Paladins a few pages back.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Good analysis.
Do you think there's a chance some of the TGT cards with less than three attack may find their way into the meta after the Patron nerf?
We are already seeing more Argent Horserider in some of the aggressive decks like in Hunter.

Most of the other 2 attack minions aren't even that good to begin with. Maybe someone can use Lance Carrier but meh, it's better to use Abusive Sergeant over it in most cases.
 
I really hope blizzard starts implementing different formats/rotations/set blocks/etc once more cards are released.

I mean...they would have to right?

There are so many cards played right now that would be played until the end of time because of their power level.

No matter what cards new sets bring, the decks being played seem to change very little.


Edit:

Hell, while we're at it...why not give classes the ability for different 'specs' and have unique and different hero powers to choose from?

I don't know, the state of the game just keeps putting a increasingly sour taste in my mouth.

Maybe I'm just salty. Fuck.
 
A lot of the deck archetypes are only a few cards away from being a lot more viable, not the least of which is pirate rogue, discard warlock, totem shaman, control hunter, and more. People forget that dragon priest was pretty pathetic prior to TGT, but has really shone since then. I'm hoping the new expansion brings in those one or two cards that will at least make more decks rounded out so we can not know exactly what we are playing against before the game starts.
 

ViviOggi

Member
try control rogue, ramshield + conceal = ??

edit: throw in master of disguise
= tokens hit face until Bolf dies

Handlock is indeed the only deck worth trying him out in, behind a taunt wall he acts as 9 points of burn armor. The meta isn't really Handlock-friendly right now though, and I'm not sure if the deck can afford to run a third healbot.
 

Dahbomb

Member
First 5 games with Ramshield Handlock:

1) Midrange Hunter game was over by turn 6 (lost it). Didn't get Ramshield.

2) Aggro Druid game was over by turn 5 (lost it). Didn't get Ramshield.

3) Mech Mage got Ramshield in hand, won me the game because it kept me out of fireball range. I even buffed it up with Defender of Argus!

4) Aggro Druid, didn't get Ramshield won anyway because he didn't have an answer to my Mountain Giant.

5) Midrange Hunter didn't get Ramshield won anyway because the guy didn't play around double Molten Giants.


Needs more testing because I really only got to use it once. Games are way too aggressive and Bolf despite having an interesting anti-burn effect is still a 6 drop which is too late in the current meta.

On paper though Bolf is pretty good in Handlock. It inflates the HP of your Jaraxxus and when it's taunted up it's a great defense overall. Plus it's an interesting tech choice against Freeze Mage alongside Loatheb.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Bolf feels like a card that was meant for Priest, but buff Priest isn't viable as it stands.

Maybe a card that has something like "Battlecry: Draw a buff and play it for free.", since the core issue is you can't keep things on the board long enough to deal with drawing buffs too frequently. Deck thin plus a card that can take the drawn buff itself the moment it comes out would help.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Mystical Buffer
6 Mana
Battlecry: Put one of each buff spell from your deck into your hand. They all cost 1 less.
6/6
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
So I've been thinking about the current issues that Blizzard would actually care about, and am going to throw out some predictions for the next Adventure and Expansion. There's only ~30 cards in an Adventure and there's a lead time to designing cards, so I'm combining the two for prediction purposes.

1.) Rogue has only ever had two successful decks in the form of Miracle and then Oil Rogue, which operate on the similar principle of digging up enough cards to do a huge burst down while not dying in the mean time. Given the cards they're giving Rogue, they clearly want them to have another more mid-rangy play style as well, but it's not working. They've also said they don't like the idea of mill decks for the most part even though Rogue has a lot of cards designed around this. As such, I expect them to make some kind of ridiculously overpowered Rogue pirate to make pirate decks finally work. They've been unusable since launch, so it's about long enough for them to get completely frustrated and bring out the big guns.

2.) Shaman isn't working in general. Their end game burst is fine, but they're not getting to the end game nor are they able to enable that burst since they can't survive, and if they do, they usually need to use the cards required for their burst to survive. I'm expecting a strong early game and strong mid game unit to try and fix the class. They might also try to do something to make overload work better like making a massively out of control card that benefits from overloads. Maybe something that gains from all the overloads you've had this game or something very cheap that gets huge benefits from the number of overloaded crystals instead of just unlocking them.

3.) Inspire and Jousting largely went nowhere for the number of cards in existence. I expect that at least Inspire will get a strong buff, though Jousting might get tangential buffs through enabling a deck that has almost exclusively higher cost minions.

4.) One thing Blizzard seems to pride themselves on lately is the number of viable playstyles available to a given class. This would be a lower tier priority, but I expect them to look at classes that have two playstyles, try to find the next most viable playstyle, and then give that playstyle some good cards in an attempt to make it work. I also expect those cards to be very heavily tied to said playstyle to minimize buffing the other playstyles that are working well.

5.) While I think they will attempt some counter cards, I actually don't expect many of them to be made. So far the most successful way to nerf other decks has simply been to add decks that heavily punish their playstyle. Oil Rogue wasn't killed by them putting in anti-weapon cards.
 
Nice thoughts Dahbomb, I'd agree with those card choices.

I've spent the post patron time playing totem shaman. Thunderbluff is actually pretty underwhelming. It does an ok job, but there are lots of other cards I'd rather be playing. Similarly totem golem is pretty bad, unless you get it from tuskar which is a very good card. The overload early on kills you every single time, it only gets ok as a late game card.

Which is why I think healing wave is underrated. Joust sucks, but this one is a must run for Shaman, mainly because the heal is always "ok" and you can at least chuck a totem on the board with it.

Speaking of which, one intrresting thing about MC will be how it interacts with upcoming adventures. If Blizzard don't specifically design around it, it'll fuck up bosses even more than face hunter did to BRM.
 

Dreavus

Member
I know shaman is a class that needs help, but when the RNG swings their way in arena, there is little else that is more frustrating. My priest deck got stomped by three shamans in a row because of max damage crackles, constant taunt totems when I'm trying to stabilize with mid-range minions (as in, trying to fight for the board with fatter guys, only to have a taunt totem spawn in my face over and over again while they throw down flametongues and trade all day), 7/6 fireguards on curve, etc.

Those guys probably went on to have the luck go against them in further games, but man. I wouldn't mind playing against the class so much if they were more consistent.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I don't know man whenever Thunderbuff Valiant gets played and I don't have an immediate answer I pretty much lose the game. That card ends up absorbing some heavy removals.
 

Pooya

Member
Unstable Portal into Rag.... ok I can deal with that.

Then plays another Rag from hand... in ARENA.

Who said mage is weaker in arena now? I win easily until 7 or so and then I just lose to mage rng BS.
 
Unstable Portal into Rag.... ok I can deal with that.

Then plays another Rag from hand... in ARENA.

Who said mage is weaker in arena now? I win easily until 7 or so and then I just lose to mage rng BS.

gotta submit that to trolden. like that ratsmah video.

whats the feels on coldlight as just a drawing card in a deck? Yes or no or should it only be used in specialized decks
 

Pooya

Member
heartharena recommendations are pretty bad to me, good thing I ignored it and picked up light's justice over some garbage 2 drop. Actually I barely even look at it anymore, my own common sense can draft better than machine.

whats the feels on coldlight as just a drawing card in a deck? Yes or no or should it only be used in specialized decks

well, it's a tricky card to use. In tempo/aggro rogue it's a good card to have, you play it to draw into lethal, in a situation that you don't care what they draw. You play it in really fast decks.

I experimented with it in aggro paly too, having two divine favors, I ended up getting both back to back a lot of times. It was ridiculous like the two cards are glued together a lot of times, I don't have the best luck in this game. In other match ups like zoo or hunter divine favor is useless too, so I swapped one for oracle, the best part is that you play oracle, play your 1 drops and then use divine favor on top. It was ok overall, you have to be careful when to play it, it's a lot better in rogue as you have a lot of burst there.
 
Working away on a mine site for the next two weeks with only my iPad/basic laptop and bad internet. Might make the most of the time in my room at night and finally finish Naxx(final boss and then class challenges) and BRM(not started).

Hopefully I don't keep losing connection when RNG is in my favour or something silly.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Hearthstone isn't necessarily hyper-aggressive. It's not like the fastest decks like Face Hunter or Aggro Paladin are particularly dominant. What's happening is that as the card pool for the game has gotten larger and larger, card quality has gotten so high that tempo decks are at the forefront. Sticky, powerful, low pre-requisite cards are dominating the game. Removal is often sloppy or slow which is giving control decks a hard time and mid-range suffers because they're slower than the tempo decks and don't have the means to punish any overextension.

It was once hypothesized (I can't remember by who) that zoo was always going to be a dominant deck in Hearthstone because it curves out so well and can gain insane card advantage with its hero power. And that, as cards got better and more efficient it would exacerbate the problem. The issue with that theory seems to be that tempo became so dominant and so powerful that the warlock hero power lost a lot of advantage because the most powerful tempo decks (like Secret Paladin) curve out so well that they barely even need card draw. By the time a Secret Paladin needs to draw cards it has already either won or lost the game.

Tempo's dominance is going to continue being an issue until Blizzard starts slashing cards out of the game. Particularly the ones that are sloppy to remove. Shielded Minibot. Haunted Creeper. Mad Scientist. Piloted Shredder. Mysterious Challenger. Cards like this are just controlling the game right now.
 

Pooya

Member
Minibot is a disgusting card, you have a 2 drop for shaman like totem golem, 3/4 with 1 overload yet shielded mini bot contests that.

And we have cards like zombie chow, once upon a time it was the tool to shutdown aggro, now actually there is merit to use the card in any deck including aggressive or tempo ones as it completely shuts down early game along side minibot. You don't care if it heals at that point, it's a 2 drop for 1 mana more often than not.

They can't keep printing better cards, they can print 'different' cards like TGT mostly was, nobody plays these different cards if they're not as good as the existing ones. So yeah we will be soon at the stage where they have to ban sets from ladder. Keep basic cards and last 3 expansions, something like that, rotate the sets every 6 months or something or the game will be really stale. For how long you want to keep playing mad scientists and Dr. Booms? I didn't see it previously but now yeah, it's better for the game, it's better for new players as they just need to buy the newest stuff immediately not 2+ years old content, it's better for older players as they will eventually get bored, this keeps things flowing constantly. And there can always be an open mode where you can play whatever set you want, it's not like your collection will be obsolete or anything.

they're never going to remove cards from the game, doing that would be an absolute disaster for them.


Why exactly? like most TCGs work just like that. It's not something unusual. You can't keep printing better cards. HS card pool is still small but not for much longer.
 
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