BananasWithGuns
Member
Ugh, Webspinner brawl...
The one they had before actually sounded kind of cool too.
The one they had before actually sounded kind of cool too.
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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
- Status
Officerrob
Banned
Did they seriously delay brawl and then replace the one we were supposed to get with one that is almost universally considered the worst? Blizzard giving zero fucks
DyslexicAlucard
Member
How Good Is Lock and Load? It seems Kripp is coming around to my thoughts on the card I shared pre-TGT launch.
DyslexicAlucard said:
I've been having a lot of success with this deck. I replaced one Quartermaster with an extra Healbot for those pesky face hunters/warlocks. I usually come out on top against other characters as long as they don't get some ridiculous draws. I can imagine a super sadface every time they expect a Secret Paladin only to get stomped by my Equalities. It's also hilarious when Hunters emote "Apologies" constantly only to get put in place with the Healbots followed by Lay on Hands. Went all the way from Rank 4 to 10 due to some bad luck with other decks and now I'm back near 7 with this one.
BananasWithGuns
Member
You know Warrior is in a bad state when not even control Warrior is that good anymore.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Having more fun in arena lately I guess because it generally avoids the bullshit Xmas tree bullshit.
irfaanator
Banned
dude mulched one of my guys and gave me warsong. Also had tundra rhino in my hand, but sadly could not check to see if they synergized b/c I had to play something else for lethal lol
We've reached critical mass of hard to kill sticky minions, which has been a critical weakness of the deck since the beginning. It needs clean minions to use weapons and removal on.
Purple played many suspect turns that game, but this one was outright bad and put him behind for the rest of the game:
It made zero sense. He should have fireballed both Boom and the TBV. He had plenty of low cost spells left in his deck not to mention Thaurissan to cycle fireballs off of Anton later in the game; this was also the world's worst plan for dealing with a minion which snowballs other minions. He had a single freeze with no guaranteed backup to not get punched in the face a turn later which is exactly what happened. Both Boom and TBV stayed on the board for 4 turns after that shot, and Purple lost the game with the same two fireballs and Anton in his hand.
Purple played many suspect turns that game, but this one seemed like he was determined to outright lose:
It made zero sense. He should have fireballed both Boom and the TBV. He had plenty of low cost spells left in his deck not to mention Thaurissan to cycle fireballs off of anton later in the game, not to mention this was the world's worst plan for dealing with a minion which snowballs other minions. He had a single freeze with no guaranteed backup to not get punched in the face a turn later which is exactly what happened.
I feel he messed up even more when he had his flamestrike turn, could have cleared one of the last remaining major threats and taken the other other very easily next turn, and then proceeded to freeze Thrall instead.
He essentially ended up throwing the match several times in a row.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Toast's Inconsistency In Hearthstone video is really great. Has Blizz ever said they intend to fix all this because it keeps getting worse.
It's not really a misplay, he had Alex in his hand, he could win the game in two turns. You can't keep clearing things forever, he made a move to win the game quickly. What he didn't count for was Bloodlust and that card isn't exactly common. If there was no Bloodlust his play was perfectly fine. The threat of Doomhammer+rockbiter is usually far morel likely and immediate than bloodlust. Unfortunately though he didn't draw a single rockbiter the whole match but had bloodlust. When you watch the match from both sides it looks like a misplay to you, there are more things to consider.
A board with a healing stream totem and a doomhammer presented zero chance of lethal out of hand to 23 health. This is especially true knowing that PPH plays no spells. Everyone also knows that PPH plays bloodlust. Assuming that PPH even did double-rockbiter, it would play incredibly in Purple's favor since he can just healbot and barrier the following turn and rest far easier knowing that PPH has only two fire ele's to deal damage out of hand.
Health is a tool to be used, not abused. Mathematically what he did makes no sense. He played an ice barrier into a 7 damage minion he had the option to remove, so he negates one attack, with no guarantee that he could stop it from attacking again; this where a fireball would have stopped the attack (effectively giving him 7 health, which is all he got from his healbot) and guaranteed that it wouldn't hit him again. The TBV accounted for 5 damage immediately also presenting snowballing damage the longer it stayed alive.
It was a bad play not because it was overly safe but because it was greedy. He wanted to keep those fireballs because he had alex in his hand, but in doing so he put himself so far behind in both tempo and (ironically) health total that it didn't even matter. And maybe far be it for me to judge, but in general it just looked like he is/was not proficient at freeze mage.
Alright guys. So it's been a couple months since TGT released. I think it's time to pay the piper. Myself, Dahbomb, Squidyj, and Opiate made some card predictions before TGT released. I think it's time for us to look back and see if our predictions were correct, and maybe even see how they compared to how the pros and even the general community evaluated the cards. How did we stack up? Where do we eat crow, and where can when can we say "I told you so"?
However, I don't want to do this for every single card. Some cards, like Pit Fighter, were a completely known quantity before and after and there's nothing to really talk about. Mainly, I want to evaluate the cards that we believe were OVERRATED or UNDERRATED in the lead up to TGT to eventually what they ended up being. And probably include some cards with extremely unique effects that would have been difficult to evaluate.
So here's the list of cards I think we should re-review. Let me know if you guys think I should include any others.
Garrison Commander
Argent Horserider
Fencing Coach
Silent Knight
Silver Hand Regent
Maiden of the Lake
Refreshment Vendor
Tournament Medic
Kvaldir Raider
Mukla's Champion
Frost Giant
Eydis Darkbane
Fjola Lightbane
Gormok the Impaler
Nexus Champion Saraad
Bolf Ramshield
Justicar Trueheart
Chillmaw
Mulch
Savage Combatant
Aviana
Lock and Load
Dreadscale
Effigy
Polymorph: Boar
Spellslinger
Coldarra Drake
Rhonin
Competitive Spirit
Seal of Champions
Warhorse Trainer
Murloc Knight
Tuskarr Jouster
Enter the Coliseum
Mysterious Challenger
Eadric the Pure
Flash Heal
Confuse
Convert
Holy Champion
Confessor Paletress
Beneath the Grounds
Burgle
Shady Dealer
Ancestral Knowledge
Totem Golem
Elemental Destruction
Healing Wave
Tuskarr Totemic
Draenei Totemcarver
Thunder Bluff Valiant
The Mistcaller
Fist of Jaraxxus
Dreadsteed
Wilfred Fizzlebang
Sparring Partner
Bash
Varian Wrynn
However, I don't want to do this for every single card. Some cards, like Pit Fighter, were a completely known quantity before and after and there's nothing to really talk about. Mainly, I want to evaluate the cards that we believe were OVERRATED or UNDERRATED in the lead up to TGT to eventually what they ended up being. And probably include some cards with extremely unique effects that would have been difficult to evaluate.
So here's the list of cards I think we should re-review. Let me know if you guys think I should include any others.
Garrison Commander
Argent Horserider
Fencing Coach
Silent Knight
Silver Hand Regent
Maiden of the Lake
Refreshment Vendor
Tournament Medic
Kvaldir Raider
Mukla's Champion
Frost Giant
Eydis Darkbane
Fjola Lightbane
Gormok the Impaler
Nexus Champion Saraad
Bolf Ramshield
Justicar Trueheart
Chillmaw
Mulch
Savage Combatant
Aviana
Lock and Load
Dreadscale
Effigy
Polymorph: Boar
Spellslinger
Coldarra Drake
Rhonin
Competitive Spirit
Seal of Champions
Warhorse Trainer
Murloc Knight
Tuskarr Jouster
Enter the Coliseum
Mysterious Challenger
Eadric the Pure
Flash Heal
Confuse
Convert
Holy Champion
Confessor Paletress
Beneath the Grounds
Burgle
Shady Dealer
Ancestral Knowledge
Totem Golem
Elemental Destruction
Healing Wave
Tuskarr Totemic
Draenei Totemcarver
Thunder Bluff Valiant
The Mistcaller
Fist of Jaraxxus
Dreadsteed
Wilfred Fizzlebang
Sparring Partner
Bash
Varian Wrynn
The general mindset you see from pro players is that they take so called winning plays. Clearing things and just to be on the safe side and lose slower that average ladder player chooses usually are at odds with it. Sure, sometimes what average ladder player thinks turns out better but these guys win a lot more than average ladder player and they are here because of it. It's a different mindset, it's probably the better mindset to have.
There is no telling clearing things would end up better, maybe he had to deal with something else next, filling the board is easy for shaman. He saw the quickest way he could possibly win in two turns and took his chances, it didn't work out but doesn't mean it was a mistake. You're seeing the match from both sides and can't see what he was seeing.
There is no telling clearing things would end up better, maybe he had to deal with something else next, filling the board is easy for shaman. He saw the quickest way he could possibly win in two turns and took his chances, it didn't work out but doesn't mean it was a mistake. You're seeing the match from both sides and can't see what he was seeing.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
That looks like every single card to me :lol I think you guys should focus on the ones that underdelivered, were better then expected or simply changed the meta. Constructed only is this list I am thinking of. So -
Mukla's Champion
Darkbane and Lightbane
Gormok
Saraad
Justicar
Ramshield
Mulch
Savage Combatant
Aviana
lock and Load
Effigy
Polymorph: Boar
Spellslinger
Rhonin
Competitive Spirit
Murloc Knight
Mysterious Challenger
Eadric
Paletress
Burgle
Beneath the Grounds
Every shaman card, really
Dreadsteed
Bash
Varian Wrynn
I see you didn't include Twilight Guardian or Wyrmrest Agent, don't remember if everyone thought they would be good or that Dragon Priest would be as good as it turned out to be. Maybe examine the new deck archetypes like Fast Druid (so Aspirant, Living Roots, Savage Combatant) Riddler Paladin (Competitive Spirit and MC) Dragon Priest, Pirate Rogue, Discard Warlock and Totem Shaman. What mechanics did and did not work out? To me, Inspire was better then I thought and Joust is just terrible, worse then I thought. Discard Warlock is bad (woah shocker) and even with the boost from strong cards like Thunder Bluff Valiant, Shaman still underperforms.
Mukla's Champion
Darkbane and Lightbane
Gormok
Saraad
Justicar
Ramshield
Mulch
Savage Combatant
Aviana
lock and Load
Effigy
Polymorph: Boar
Spellslinger
Rhonin
Competitive Spirit
Murloc Knight
Mysterious Challenger
Eadric
Paletress
Burgle
Beneath the Grounds
Every shaman card, really
Dreadsteed
Bash
Varian Wrynn
I see you didn't include Twilight Guardian or Wyrmrest Agent, don't remember if everyone thought they would be good or that Dragon Priest would be as good as it turned out to be. Maybe examine the new deck archetypes like Fast Druid (so Aspirant, Living Roots, Savage Combatant) Riddler Paladin (Competitive Spirit and MC) Dragon Priest, Pirate Rogue, Discard Warlock and Totem Shaman. What mechanics did and did not work out? To me, Inspire was better then I thought and Joust is just terrible, worse then I thought. Discard Warlock is bad (woah shocker) and even with the boost from strong cards like Thunder Bluff Valiant, Shaman still underperforms.
6+ month's and blizz still hasn't changed or added 1 word to a bunch of cards... Lazy bastards confirmed.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I kinda doubt its them being "lazy." I think its more that they either don't think it's a problem or are having trouble changing it. Either way, Blizzard's lack of communication leaves something to be desired, and that goes beyond them having inconsistent card text.
So their code takes the text on the card and processes that for how it behaves, instead of just being a block of descriptive text?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I don't know that. Like I said it's frustrating since they don't tell us shit so we are just left to assume.
They don't want to change the identity of the cards.
You mean the "soul" of the cards?
Yeah, that. I forgot the meme.
I think you might be giving Purple a little more credit than is due here. I don't think Purple has an unknown insight into what may literally be Hearthstone's oldest still-playable (and least generally understood) deck. Making simplifications about "winning plays" doesn't mean much if the play in actuality accomplishes the opposite.
Not only did he not even have lethal in hand to follow Alex, it was a poor tempo choice and not rooted in a fundamental understanding of navigating freeze mage's multitude of win conditions. Playing for the unknown, as you've alluded to, would have required him to clear (or at the very least blizzard) because as the board stood, knowing actually nothing about PPH's hand, and assuming PPH did nothing besides press hero power, there was 34 damage on the board over the following two turns if Purple doesn't clear or control. He's going to be taking so much damage to the face !! without iceblock up !! that he doesn't even have time to Alex face into a lethal (which he doesn't have in hand). Tempo was enormously in PPH's favor and Purple's immediate concern should have been stablising until he had a viable path to a winning position.
This argument comes not from seeing the match from both sides. You'll note that never in my arguments for particular lines of play do I mention playing around things in PPH's hand, only what you can expect PPH to bring. Not only that, the primary line of logic for my suggested play resides solely on what is in Purple's hand and what is on the board.
It was at best an extraordinarily greedy play, but in reality I think it was just bad. If you can't see that then I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
phoenix296
Member
I got hit in the face by Krush while I had Eye for an Eye up. Guy killed himself lol.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Zealous I am down for the re-review.
I thing Living Roots should be re-reviewed as well. Even though everyone in the group said the card was going to be good/great, I feel even then we undervalued it a bit. Mostly the being able to hit face with it that has allowed it to become a mainstay in Aggro Druid over even Wrath. The card is just insane.
I would also add Arcane Blast to the list.
I thing Living Roots should be re-reviewed as well. Even though everyone in the group said the card was going to be good/great, I feel even then we undervalued it a bit. Mostly the being able to hit face with it that has allowed it to become a mainstay in Aggro Druid over even Wrath. The card is just insane.
I would also add Arcane Blast to the list.
Trigger_happy
Member
Secret paladin, tempo mage, secret paladin... zzz
Dr.Horrible
Member
I rope anyone who ropes me. Generally works to stop that nonsense.
veloxStrix
Banned
It's really hard to enjoy this game when you get consistent shit RNG. I just had 3 games in a row where my 2x Healbots and 2x Refreshment vendors were in the bottom 10 of my deck against Aggro. I expect to lose games to RNG, but 3 in a row for the exact same reason? It's fucking punishing, especially at the ranks I'm playing at. Just handed out 300+ Legend ranks like fucking Halloween candy. I would have lost 4, but my opponent held BGH until I was fatiguing while I was playing Rogue..
Edit: Switched over to a more traditional Oil Rogue and started winning my way back up (not because of the meta, but to avoid tilting anymore). I wonder how time of game affects RNG, since when I play Control Rogue I tend to have worse "luck". Something I never thought about, so I guess the losses weren't a complete waste.
Edit: Switched over to a more traditional Oil Rogue and started winning my way back up (not because of the meta, but to avoid tilting anymore). I wonder how time of game affects RNG, since when I play Control Rogue I tend to have worse "luck". Something I never thought about, so I guess the losses weren't a complete waste.
Dr.Horrible
Member
I can't spam the sorry button fast enough when people taunt too early and then end up losing. I love it.
toddhunter
Member
I'll sometimes do it if I'm salty and facing somebody who is playing whatever the latest aggro deck is.
Turn 1 worgen? You can just sit there and wait.
i dont run shaman, but i know the feeling.
that is why i like my midrange paladin build. the aggro players don't expect anything from my argent squires and annoy-o-tron, but BAM! 6/6-12/12 blood knight on turn 3. Face that, bitch!
WesternHeretic
Member
When you get win 5 tavern brawl quest on a shitty tavern brawl week.
=(
=(
I really hope they get the casino brawl figured out. Webspinners is bland.
Onion_Relish
Member
Ball of Spiders new meta
In the 1st and 2nd turns there is no point in trading Webspinners because you are very unlikely to have the mana to play any of the beasts you get, so you're missing out on free face damage.
Ignoring my 5/1 Tiger and getting that extra 1 damage to my face is not a valid strategy.
They can ignore the board in the early game if they want, but it usually just lets me get the jump on them with a bigger beast while they're left trying to repopulate the board.
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