Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks

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I can't tell if Ancestral Knowledge is contextually bad or not.

For instance, absent any context, Dark Bomb is a patently inferior Frostbolt,. But given the other tools Warlock has, Dark Bomb is excellent for them. Conversely, Gallywix may be a great card (as is now mentioned frequently in this thread), but does not work well with the other cards Rogue has, so it's "bad" in that it doesn't work well in the Rogue context.

Ancestral Knowledge is pretty clearly worse than Arcane Intellect, in a vacuum. But I'm not sure that's unfair until I see how it plays within the Shaman context.
 
in terms of fueling a game ending burst, AK is actually better than AI for two reasons. One, it's actually cheaper, and two, because of overload Shaman burn spells are cheaper themselves, so you can play more of the ones you draw on a critical turn. It won't matter when you overload yourself for 5 if you win the game.
 
FieryBalrog said:
Ancestral Knowledge would see play right now in Mech Shaman. You dont usually play draw spells in an early game curve anyway. People need to stop evaluating cards in a vacuum. Also Overload X is really not the same as "add x to the mana cost of this card and then compare ".
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Yeah like I said, it's a mediocre card that will get play anyway because Shaman are that thirsty for card draw.
 
Dahbomb said:
Yeah like I said, it's a mediocre card that will get play anyway because Shaman are that thirsty for card draw.
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You could say the same of a lot of cards. I think dark bomb is the best example, really, which is why I used it above. Warlocks were desperate for a direct damage removal spell (mortal coil is fine, but it's as much card draw as it is direct damage). So even though dark bomb is clearly worse than frostbolt (and marginally worse than lightning bolt), dark bomb is in basically every warlock deck any way because warlocks needed something like dark bomb badly.
 
Opiate said:
You could say the same of a lot of cards. I think dark bomb is the best example, really, which is why I used it above. Warlocks were desperate for a direct damage removal spell (mortal coil is fine, but it's as much card draw as it is direct damage). So even though dark bomb is clearly worse than frostbolt (and marginally worse than lightning bolt), dark bomb is in basically every warlock deck any way because warlocks needed something like dark bomb badly.
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Dark bomb is good because the warlock hero power is crazy strong.

The new shamen card sucks, and still sucks because shamen has the worst hero power in the game.

Edit: and the worst class cards in the game.
 
Raxus said:
This is my TGT druid deck concept. Subject to change of course.

I think I only need healing at the moment but time will tell.
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Replace loatheb with thaurissan, maybe add a kelthuzad to keep aviana alive.

To make aviana work, she either has to make you win the turn you put her out, or at worst the next turn, so we need to plan for a way for her to kill in 1 turn. Charge, direct damage stuff. And there need to be multiple combos in the deck to win, I think. You can't hope for ONE hand that will win, you need several.

Aviana innervate rag faceless faceless might be one. I dunno.
 
Yeah Warlock can float less than amazing cards because of their hero power. In fact they can make cards with obscene downsides usable because of their hero power (like Doom Guard).

Shaman just has too many Overloads and they just stack up. They need more no drawback good spell cards (like Rockbiter, Hex).
 
The overload being a non-factor only exists in a fantasy land where you never play card draw early. Sometimes you play Arcane Intellect on turns 3 or 5 because it is the only play you have. But given the high overload cost on Ancestral Knowledge it is pretty bad any earlier than Turn 7 or so.

Look, I was defending the overload mechanic not that long ago and even I think it is a bad overload card.
 
CoolOff said:
"Oh, he has MCT."
"Oh, his Kezan is still in his deck"
"Oh, his Grommash is still in his deck"
"Oh, his Black Knight is still in his deck"

It's not always gonna be useful, but acting like it's completely irrelevant information is just rank 15-talk.
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No, the information is useless. He has mct! You already know this, because you know his deck. If you are new to hearthstone, you still played a mediocre card to find this out. You still don't know if they will ever draw it, you still don't know if they run double bgh.

These are brawl cards.

EnVy_CaLiBeR said:
Kills a number of early game minions so there are many things that you can use it on. There are many instances where Shield Block is a dead on turn 3 and times where you don't have a weapon. Also, you can deal damage and take less on the face. It's a good alternative to have.
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It is a good alternative if you have 32 cards. Shield block is never dead on turn 3. Worst option? Yeah. But now your turn 4 is sorted which is the critical thing.
 
Dahbomb said:
Yeah Warlock can float less than amazing cards because of their hero power. In fact they can make cards with obscene downsides usable because of their hero power (like Doom Guard).

Shaman just has too many Overloads and they just stack up. They need more no drawback good spell cards (like Rockbiter, Hex).
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Would be nice if there were more cards that benefit from overload. Draw a card every time you play a card with overload. Weapon: +1/+2 if you are overloaded this turn. Stuff like that. *shrug*
 
georly said:
Replace loatheb with thaurissan, maybe add a kelthuzad to keep aviana alive.

To make aviana work, she either has to make you win the turn you put her out, or at worst the next turn, so we need to plan for a way for her to kill in 1 turn. Charge, direct damage stuff. And there need to be multiple combos in the deck to win, I think. You can't hope for ONE hand that will win, you need several.

Aviana innervate rag faceless faceless might be one. I dunno.
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Problem with these decks is starting hand:

kelthuzad, thaurissan, ancient of war, aviana

Muligan everything:

Ancient of Lore, Ancient of lore, master jouster, faceless.

First draw: Kelthuzad.

Enjoy your match vs aggro.
 
I like the rogue card Anubarak. We're talking about a bgh'able target where bgh removes only half the hp of the target and half the attack. And then it can be played again next turn. It looks like a card for that slower tempo almost control-like rogue control deck that had its moments of popularity in the past.

Aviana seems really strong though. But we'll have to see how consistently it works in favor of the druid each time. Innervate and such are clear combo cards, but 5/5 isn't difficult to deal with late game so finding a good window to play it and innervate could be hard.

Anecestral knowledge. I can see why someone might look at the overload, add it to the mana cost, and be like - wtf man, this is a 4 mana arcane intellect. The truth is, however, that if it were 1 overload, it would be a strictly stronger arcane intellect. Overload is a mechanic that increases the strength of a card by reducing the upfront cost. Lower upfront cost with a "pay later" mechanic is better than just an upfront cost when they both cost exactly the same, in terms of card strength valuation.

Especially for card cycling, you don't want to play ancestral knowledge and do nothing that turn in terms of playing for the board. So ancestral knowledge frees up 1 mana, essentially moving the window of opportunity for that card to be strong a turn earlier or just giving you 1 additional mana to spend on the cards you drew. I don't think that is something to be scoffed at. And if you didn't have to pay anything over similar card draw, then it would be a strictly stronger spell. I think it is a good card and will strengthen shaman combo+aggro decks.


embalm said:
Ancestral Knowledge does a couple things:
  • It is better than a lot of other card draw. Burgle and Thoughtsteal don't pull from your deck, these are big penalties for some decks.
  • Not all class cards are equal. Card draw is not cheap or easy for Shamans, it is very easy for Pallys and Rogues.
  • The 2 overload makes it a late game card. The overload is not noticable at 9 or 10 mana.
  • At 9 or 10 mana it is the only card draw that allows you to drop 8 drops. So you can top deck into Ragnaros & Alakir and play both of them back to back turns.

It's really not a bad card for a class starving for card draw. It is different and needs to be thought of differently.
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I just want to point out that overload is very noticeable at 9 or 10 mana. Especially since alakir costs 8 and you generally want to play that on a turn with rockbiter so overload very often pushes back lethal a turn which is a very big deal.
 
georly said:
Would be nice if there were more cards that benefit from overload. Draw a card every time you play a card with overload. Weapon: +1/+2 if you are overloaded this turn. Stuff like that. *shrug*
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Also the fact that lavashock is a terrible card. Its use is so specific, you can almost never get the unlock value from it.

Unbound elemental is a victim of power creep, the card is just too weak.

There are no other cards that benefit from overload that I can think of....

Edit: overload offloading the mana cost for a turn would be a huge benefit if you could choose to pay it this turn or next turn. As it stands there are MANY MANY times when I would prefer to pay the overload this turn instead of next turn. Like on turn 5, when I have to crackle something, and float 1 mana, then I can't fire ele on turn 6. This happens all the time.

Theoretically overload is a plus, but often it is a negative. This is not reflected in the mana cost of the cards.
 
Minsc said:
Problem with these decks is starting hand:

kelthuzad, thaurissan, ancient of war, aviana

Muligan everything:

Ancient of Lore, Ancient of lore, master jouster, faceless.

First draw: Kelthuzad.

Enjoy your match vs aggro.
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Super Taunt Ramp is mostly run because it is favored against Control anyway. The taunts and Zombie chows it runs are to give it a fighting chance.
 
Minsc said:
Problem with these decks is starting hand:

kelthuzad, thaurissan, ancient of war, aviana

Muligan everything:

Ancient of Lore, Ancient of lore, master jouster, faceless.

First draw: Kelthuzad.

Enjoy your match vs aggro.
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Yeah it might be a total dud, but people will experiment regardless. It'll require a ton of tweaking to get right. The goal would be to ramp up, survive, and finish by turn 7 or 8, if that's even possible. *shrug* I wanna see it work.

Ultrabum said:
Also the fact that lavashock is a terrible card. Its use is so specific, you can almost never get the unlock value from it.

Unbound elemental is a victim of power creep, the card is just too weak.

There are no other cards that benefit from overload that I can think of....
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Who are we kidding, the next shaman card will be cracklex2. 3 mana, 5-9 damage, overload 2. Then next set ultrazap 4 mana, 8-12 damage, overload 3.
 
Ultrabum said:
Also the fact that lavashock is a terrible card. Its use is so specific, you can almost never get the unlock value from it.

Unbound elemental is a victim of power creep, the card is just too weak.

There are no other cards that benefit from overload that I can think of....
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Lots of cards benefit from overload. Basically anything your opponent plays next turn.
 
No, the information is useless. He has mct! You already know this, because you know his deck. If not, you still played a mediocre card to find this out. You still don't know if they will ever draw it, you still don't know if they run double bgh.
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No it's still useful information.

Not every deck uses MCT and thus knowing that they have MCT is very useful information.

Furthermore the card pulls a card from the deck... not their hand. If you are up against a Warrior and facing a possible Grommash lethal if they have it in hand... but you find the card in their deck using the Jousting mechanic then you can play around Grommash safely.


And these cards are only mediocre if they lose the jousting... most of them are very strong if they win the joust.
 
So this brawl seems to be bugged with some cards. My opponent played Micro Machine and it didn't have the Deathrattle symbol that all other cards do for the Mystery Pilot and didn't pop anything out when it died. Anyone else see this with other minions?
 
I don't know, I've played a ton of Shaman and it's my favorite class but as of right now I don't want anything to do with Ancestral Knowledge. It it had 1 overload I would probably run two copies and finally ditch Azure Drake but at overload 2 it's going to throw off tempo so much that it's not even worth it. Sure, it isn't AS bad in the late game but when that's how you have to justify your card draw then it's probably not worth it anyway.

Until there is some better way to manage overload than Lava Shock, I'll just stick with Mana Tide and Azure Drakes (or something else).
 
Whirthun
Whirthun – ‏@CM_Whirthun

.@ThaBusDriv3r Rewards do not increase passed rank 5. Players who make Legend will receive rank 5 chests.



THANK GOD
 
Not really a fan of the brawl this week. Already got my 40 dust atleast, currently sitting on 2000 along with 1000g which I started saving within the last week or so.

Re: New Cards:

Anub'arak - Feels waaaaaaaaaay too slow. 9 mana, no immediate impact, and poor stat distribution to cater to the ability of never really dying. Cool in theory but I can't see it working in Rogue at all. Even on the off chance they get some crazy card that works like a prep for minions, he would return to hand at original cost and always suck up a ton of mana to use.

Aviana - Love this card, on the other hand. Disgusting when you innervate afterwards, and even more than Tharussian you NEED to kill her or you basically lose next turn. Brutal paired with bigger taunts like Ancient of War, or the KT combo so they need to get rid of both.

I am really excited to play druid after this expansion. Joust is already good for him as well.
 
Another way to make overload good would be cards that get permanent mana cost reduction for each turn you overload. Give us a reason to overload or run overload cards :/
 
johnsmith said:
Whirthun
Whirthun – ‏@CM_Whirthun

.@ThaBusDriv3r Rewards do not increase passed rank 5. Players who make Legend will receive rank 5 chests.



THANK GOD
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Why is that a good thing? I would have loved a reason to actually rank past 5. This is a bad thing imo. People will still continue to believe that rank 5 is just as good as hitting legend, when it is really just half way.
 
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Why is that a good thing? I would have loved a reason to actually rank past 5. This is a bad thing imo. People will still continue to believe that rank 5 is just as good as hitting legend, when it is really just half way.
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Have you ever hit legend? It's a grind, it's stressful, it's not fun. I would HATE to have to do it every month to get the best rewards.
 
Kinda surprised they wouldn't kick in a little more for legend, since that's the top rank. (Not that I've ever really tried to reach it)

Also, I really hate the art on burgle. Goes beyond typical Warcraft silliness (like annoy-o-tron, which I'm fine with!) and is just a bad visual reference/joke. :|

So far it's the shanty town of hearthstone in terms of it's art.
 
johnsmith said:
Have you ever hit legend? It's a grind, it's stressful, it's not fun. I would HATE to have to do it every month.
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You don't have to do it every month. And yes I have hit legend. And I've had a blast each time I've hit legend. I've wanted more incentive to aim for it, and so have a lot of other people. Hitting rank 5 is something I can do barely even playing. It really doesn't need incentive for me because it is really nothing. But hitting legend is something. Hitting rank 1 is something. They missed the mark with this reward scheme ending at rank 5.
 
This is the card you need for Shaman:

ef706d49.png



Probably for less cost though (and scale stats accordingly).
 
I like that the rewards stop at 5. It's "easy" to obtain and if you want to hit legend, that's a reward in itself. I don't want to grind legend every month.
 
Mobius and pet octopus said:
You don't have to do it every month. And yes I have hit legend. And I've had a blast each time I've hit legend. I've wanted more incentive to aim for it, and so have a lot of other people. Hitting rank 5 is something I can do barely even playing. It really doesn't need incentive for me because it is really nothing. But hitting legend is something. Hitting rank 1 is something. They missed the mark with this reward scheme ending at rank 5.
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It can be fun if the deck you want to play is aligned well in the meta. My easiest legend was the 2nd time I hit it with undertaker priest because the deck was refined by then and it was my favorite deck, and the only bad match ups were freeze Mage and handlock, both of which were kept in check by hunters, but if I had to do it every month I would end up forcing myself to play whatever was good instead of what was fun for me.

But it looks like the other guy was wrong anyway. Now this doesn't sound too bad, if the gold card rewards are the same.


Zeriyah
Zeriyah – ‏@CM_Zeriyah

To clarify, you will get a little more dust from Rank 5 to 1.
 
johnsmith said:
It can be fun if the deck you want to play is aligned well in the meta. My easiest legend was the 2nd time I hit it with undertaker priest because the deck was refined by then and it was my favorite deck, and the only bad match ups were freeze Mage and handlock, both of which were kept in check by hunters, but if I had to do it every month I would end up forcing myself to play whatever was good instead of what was fun for me.

But it looks like the other guy was wrong anyway. Now this doesn't sound too bad, if the gold card rewards are the same.


Zeriyah
Zeriyah – ‏@CM_Zeriyah

To clarify, you will get a little more dust from Rank 5 to 1.
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That sounds fair. I think in the past I've just read about hundreds of people saying there is no real reward or incentive to go to legend. If the amount of rewards doesn't change but the quality of the rewards is just slightly higher, that is good with me.
 
At least AK is burst draw instead of sustained draw. That's about the only good thing I can think of.

But as far as synergy, here's what I would've liked instead:

YlyOkfx.png


A weapon card. It works with Hero Power, Mana Tide Totem, Tuskarr Totemic, and Powermace. It is a Harrison/Ooze deterrent. But most of all, it offers choice. Either get sustained card draw at the cost of 2-mana or more, burst card draw if you sacrifice it all at once with another weapon, or choose to immediately attack for 1-damage if need be. I've always enjoyed the Paladin card Sword of Justice which offers a similar flexibility: spend your Durability to buff a minion or swing for the fences. SoJ also works wonderfully with the Paladin Hero Power or Muster for Battle.
 
I must say that I'm quite pleased with this upcoming expansion. This will probably get me back into Hearthstone. The ranked rewards alone is great enough, but these new mechanics and the push to slow down the meta is greatly, greatly appreciated. I was doubtful that Inspire alone would be enough to slow anything, but they are seemingly implementing more than just that; jousting, for instance, seems to be something that is intended to slow down gameplay by promoting heavier, slower minions in the deck construction.

Looks good. Can't believe that Dr. Balanced still hasn't been touched. And by the way, that Druid legendary is absolutely ridiculous, especially in the meta that this expansion is hoping to achieve. Another card that caught my eye was Mukla's Champion. Hunter can make great use of that nonsense.
 
Dreavus said:
Kinda surprised they wouldn't kick in a little more for legend, since that's the top rank. (Not that I've ever really tried to reach it)

Also, I really hate the art on burgle. Goes beyond typical Warcraft silliness (like annoy-o-tron, which I'm fine with!) and is just a bad visual reference/joke. :|

So far it's the shanty town of hearthstone in terms of it's art.
Click to expand...

Kill Command is still the worst.
 
Mukla's champion seems more like a solid arena card than constructed. It is basically stomwind champion you can if played on turn 7, a card neglected in constructed. The inspire mechanic might give it the synergy or at least a reason to try the card in constructed. But I am not expecting a 5 mana inspire card that requires board presence to be used in constructed at this point.

Burgle. I like the looks of this card. Someone called it shit? I dunno. I think it creates a card advantage for 2 mana. That is pretty damn nice imo. It is hard to tell how good it might be at a glance due to the random and nature and variance based on your opponent's class. It seems like Blizzard has heard people joke about how priest is the thief class and rogue can't steal much, but with gang up and burgle it seems like they are attempting to change that, which sounds cool to me.

example:
Pick pocket 2/1 - 1 mana, reveal 2 minions, if yours is higher, gain 2 coins.
or inspire: gain 1 coin.
 
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