partyphone
Banned
trying to balance wild is an impossible task. it really only exists so people can technically use any of the cards in their collection.
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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
trying to balance wild is an impossible task. it really only exists so people can technically use any of the cards in their collection.
partyphone
Banned
and in the future when thaurissan falls out they can print some powerful cards that can't be combo'd easily in standard.
Nothing will ever be more degenerate than Control Priest is right now especially in the lower ranks. At least Secret Paladin has to be proactive. Priest just loads up with reactionary tools and nopes everything until you get pissed off and concede.
partyphone
Banned
control priest is good against other control decks. but you're only going to have trouble with your midrange or aggro deck if you get a slow start and give them time to draw answers. like all of my turn 6 victories with aggro shaman are against priest and rogue.
Priest has every possible counter to Patron. And they don't have to draw answers, their entire deck is nothing but answers. I do enjoy running into them when playing rush decks but anything else, fucking miserable.
partyphone
Banned
my biggest complaint with hearthstone tourneys is the massive amount of time between games. can no one afford to have 2 stations hooked up to the streaming equipment? matches take long enough that it would be easy to get another one on deck.
Anyone have any ideas for a good evolve shaman?
I'm thinking key figures are obviously Evolve and master of evolution, but probably also minions who get discounts, like Thing from below and nerubian prophet, as well as anything that creates good tokens, like tuskar totemic. Maybe also expensive minions with good battlecries?
I just need help figuring out: What kind of a deck is this? Control? Midrange?
The goal of the deck is to just keep making your minions grow and self-heal, right?
What else should I fill the deck with? Removal? Aggro? More insane minions/board floods?
Is it possible this is the ONE deck for shaman where far sight is good, since the point is to play discounted expensive minions and then evolve them up to a crazier minion?
I also wanna put this guy in, because I love him, but he's just 1 card.
I'm thinking key figures are obviously Evolve and master of evolution, but probably also minions who get discounts, like Thing from below and nerubian prophet, as well as anything that creates good tokens, like tuskar totemic. Maybe also expensive minions with good battlecries?
I just need help figuring out: What kind of a deck is this? Control? Midrange?
The goal of the deck is to just keep making your minions grow and self-heal, right?
What else should I fill the deck with? Removal? Aggro? More insane minions/board floods?
Is it possible this is the ONE deck for shaman where far sight is good, since the point is to play discounted expensive minions and then evolve them up to a crazier minion?
I also wanna put this guy in, because I love him, but he's just 1 card.
partyphone
Banned
I don't know that evolve will be good in constructed. you basically want to run vanilla minions with good stats so you can trade efficiently with them and then evolve them to something new. like evolving a flametongue totoem seems bad. and good shaman minions are super stat efficient. turning a totem golem into a random 3 drop could be a disaster. same with that new 4 mana 7/7. so you're looking at mostly neutral minions. so you're basically playing zoo with a shitty hero power.
but who knows. board control and value may end up being good in the new meta. battlecry minions probably have potential of being good evolve targets so I would start there.
but who knows. board control and value may end up being good in the new meta. battlecry minions probably have potential of being good evolve targets so I would start there.
Evolve would be good in decks that generate tokens or with minions that get value off of battlecries. So cards like Silver Hand Knight or Bilefin Tidehunter might be good?
Yeah, I'm thinking that, but also... other than minions, what spells am I looking for? Removal? Healing? AOE? How many of them? I just suck at visualizing a deck and what a deck is good at and how to build around that. Lack of experience, I guess.
I don't expect this deck to be that good, to be honest, I want it to be fun. My rank 20-15 deck, basically.
Yeah, i'm sad the 4 mana 7/7 sucks in this deck. If I'm lucky, a 3 drop will evolve into it though.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Funny thing about the evolve mechanic is that it's horrible combined with overload minions. Good with stuff like Feral Spirit though.
partyphone
Banned
you just want a mid-range shaman deck with like azure drakes and fire elementals at the top.
so like lighting storm and lightning bolt and rockbiter and probably just one doomhammer. and just a nice curve of midgame minions and like argus.
I'd probably try out argent commanders.
edit: al-akir seems dangerous because of majordomo
so like lighting storm and lightning bolt and rockbiter and probably just one doomhammer. and just a nice curve of midgame minions and like argus.
I'd probably try out argent commanders.
edit: al-akir seems dangerous because of majordomo
BananasWithGuns
Member
If you want to go strictly for high value evolutions then I'd probably look at stuff like Thing from Below, Darkspeaker and Nerubian Prophet.
Scratch the itch.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/packs/simulator/3-hearthstone-old-gods
20 packs and no legendary.
Also, there's no way this thing really emulates real rarity rates....I'm getting so many packs here with 2-4 rares or better. Most of my packs in reality are a plain old 40 dust, 1 rare.
Grayfox341
Member
There's only one way to play this type of deck and that's midrange/tempo.
The evolve function doesn't work without a board so you need to pump stuff on the board. Can't play a control playstyle with it.
This pretty much means minions with powerful Battlecry and/or token generator stuff.
Tuskar Totemic is an auto include as is stuff like Jewel Scarab, Fire Elemental, Azure Drake etc. You also want that new Thing of the Deep card because of its synergy with Master of Evolution. That pretty much means that you want an element of Totems in your deck.
Far Sight is garbage, don't put it in this deck.
If I had to make a deck around it, then my deck would look something like this:
Totem Evolve Midrange Shaman
Scratch the itch.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/packs/simulator/3-hearthstone-old-gods
20 packs and no legendary.
Also, there's no way this thing really emulates real rarity rates....I'm getting so many packs here with 2-4 rares or better. Most of my packs in reality are a plain old 40 dust, 1 rare.
Do they have the pity counter built in?
Thank you!
And I know farsight is garbage. I just think that maybe this is the one time it's possibly slightly LESS garbage than in other decks, because playing expensive minions at a discount and then evolving them is really good value (though clearly you're not playing for value, but for tempo).
Why would evolving a flametongue be that bad? you drop flametongue on your board, get some value out of it on turn by enabling trades, then upgrade it into a real 3 drop of some sort
Tokens are useful, battlecries are useful, you'll still want some reasonable dudes, I think you should still be running tunnel trogg and totem golem because you want to get in on that early game and putting totem golems and tuskarr totemics in your deck could be enough to let you smoothly play thing from below for decent tempo and if it works the way I think it does that'll be great for evolve.
- Obviously we're running Master of Evolution
- Azure Drakes are still in Standard so maybe they have a place.
- Al'Akir is an 8 mana dude with charge windfury and divine shield, his load is practically blown on the turn you play him, if on turn 9 you al'akir into evolve to get a 9-drop out of him after addressing the board somehow you're going to be okay.
This will have to suffice till tuesday/wednesday
http://www.hearthcards.net/packs/
wow beaten, i should refresh before posting
There isn't much point in evolving big minions, you want to be evolving smaller to mid range to big minions.
Thing of the Deep and Fire Elemental are the highest you want to go when it comes to evolution because the jump from 6 to 7 is massive. There's also a big leap from 3 to 4.
Pumping out Totems early game then in the mid to late game you put out a Thing of the Deep for basically free then evolve it into a 7 mana minion (which can very likely be a Legendary) or attacking it into something then healing it is a huge tempo.
partyphone
Banned
mage got a couple of real broken arena cards it's hilarious.
I don't know about those valiants.
I don't think anyone should write off evolving al'akir.
except for that pesky 1/12 chance of getting majordomo >_>
Alternate win condition IMO. If you get enough Totems on the board then Thunderbuff Valiant will steam roll them. You can also evolve Valiant if it gets low on HP because it's essentially 4 mana worth of stats that you can buff to a 6 mana minion.
partyphone
Banned
the thing with flametongue is that it's super likely to die after you play it. and if it doesn't it can generate a ton of extra value. evolving it doesn't seem great. though it's probably good enough to simply generate that initial value. especially if flooding the board with totems is part of your gameplan.
edit: too bad there isn't a new totem this set
edit: too bad there isn't a new totem this set
I feel like if you go in on totem synergy on board or if you're trying to evolve a bunch of stuff, one part of your hand becomes clunky and holds you back. there's a part of your hand you can't really use with the gameplan you're executing at the moment.
partyphone
Banned
how many 9 mana minions are there? getting majordomo would be Bad.
12, you have a 1/12 chance of getting majordomo.
Totems synergize well with Evolve. Aside from Totem Golem, you are fine evolving your totems into an actual minion.
Honestly, it's basically a Totem deck with Evolve as an extra mechanic because these Evolve cards are insane to me. I might cut one Evolve though.
partyphone
Banned
yeah there's the issue of betting your win condition on 2 cards. the deck has to work even when you don't draw evolve. especially since it's low on cycle and will be looking to curve out.
it's the reason mill rogue isn't very competitive. if you don't draw coldlight you lose.
it's the reason mill rogue isn't very competitive. if you don't draw coldlight you lose.
With a lot of tokens, heavy battlecry, charge minions, sounds like an aggro deck. So you could throw in some burn spells like lightning bolt. Earth Shock as a silence option. Maybe a bloodlust?
reddit has the pitchforks out, damn good on them. downvoting blizzard posts too lol.
this is one of the balance designers
well, we've seen all the cards now. Man, those neutrals that help the rogue, I like to see them point out which ones they think or how any of these really relates to the nerf.
oh. I hope their idea isn't that rogue has to burgle stuff it doesn't have in the class lol.
so, 4/2 was too much, lol. Look at the stats on every other soon to be meta card, like how was this too much and when you have the nerf in consideration too. There is a freaking 3 drop 2/1 deal 2 damage c'thun card, that just snipes your 4 drop. lol
this is one of the balance designers
.Iksar said:I think Rogue is pretty well taken care of regardless
well, we've seen all the cards now. Man, those neutrals that help the rogue, I like to see them point out which ones they think or how any of these really relates to the nerf.
oh. I hope their idea isn't that rogue has to burgle stuff it doesn't have in the class lol.
so, 4/2 was too much, lol. Look at the stats on every other soon to be meta card, like how was this too much and when you have the nerf in consideration too. There is a freaking 3 drop 2/1 deal 2 damage c'thun card, that just snipes your 4 drop. lol
partyphone
Banned
I'm gonna try to make yogg rogue work but I know it won't. : (
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Why run stormcrack? Isn't it essentially shadowbolt with an overload mechanic?
I feel like Evolve's potential impact is too powerful not to see play somewhere, but I don't think it necessarily *needs* to be a deck solely looking to use it. Like it just being a one of that gets you some amount of value later feels alright assuming it has some amount of support through minions like Tuskarr Totemic which should be in a slower shaman list anyway.
I'm actually looking at C'Thun in particular though. I don't think Shaman has a specific card for it (unless I missed it), but those minions typically get the benefit off the battlecry then are just bodies. But that 7 mana legendary that spawns another through C'Thun attack...I couldn't help but notice the token is ANOTHER 7 drop taunt. That + evolve is a double 8, and IIRC people did math on cards like Forbidden Shaping to see that 8 mana is the consistently good mana slot to hit.
I'm actually looking at C'Thun in particular though. I don't think Shaman has a specific card for it (unless I missed it), but those minions typically get the benefit off the battlecry then are just bodies. But that 7 mana legendary that spawns another through C'Thun attack...I couldn't help but notice the token is ANOTHER 7 drop taunt. That + evolve is a double 8, and IIRC people did math on cards like Forbidden Shaping to see that 8 mana is the consistently good mana slot to hit.
That's totally not the same thing.
In that Shaman deck you can win by:
*An unanswered Tunnel Trogg protected by stuff like Feral Spirits and then board control with stuff like Stormcrack, Fire Elemental to just win on the board.
*Get god curve. Get Tuskar Totemic into Master of Evolution onto Tuskar, get out an early Thing of the Deep, into Fire Elemental etc.
*Get a good amount of minions on the board early game, trade efficiently then Evolve to create a bigger board, win from there.
*Get some Totems to stick, steam roll with Thunderbuff Valiant.
*Get some insane Brann Battlecries off for value/tempo.
It's completely not reliant on just two cards. Main point of the deck is to just somehow get on the board and stay there then steam roll. That's basically exactly how every non control Paladin deck works anyway.
Curves into Tunnel Trogg to protect your Trogg. It's better than Shadowbolt to be honest.
Don't have to use that card but once you start removing overloads from the deck then there's less reason to run Trogg in it.
4 mana 3/2 draw 2 cards is pretty damn good. The card is excellent as far as I am concerned.
partyphone
Banned
I was agreeing with you? you can't bet the whole strategy on evolve you need another win condition.
well, yogg/c'thun is supposedly theirs (his) favorite. You can expect it was one of the decks in their play testing. Well, rogue gonna rng yogg to win and play 2 10 mana cards and 9 mana cards.
Let's just have these bookmarked when OG meta settles in a month see who's right. Blizzard's testing environment or fools armchair game desingers on the internet that can predict the meta without actually having direct access to cards.
I like my chances lol.
oh, I think that card is great but definitely could use more stats without it being too much compared with the stuff we've seen now they're adding to the game. they've been very generous elsewhere.
iksar said:
Let's just have these bookmarked when OG meta settles in a month see who's right. Blizzard's testing environment or fools armchair game desingers on the internet that can predict the meta without actually having direct access to cards.
I like my chances lol.
oh, I think that card is great but definitely could use more stats without it being too much compared with the stuff we've seen now they're adding to the game. they've been very generous elsewhere.
partyphone
Banned
meta is gonna be like chtunlock, cthun warrior, cthun priest, aggro shaman.
What about it? I believe they said there's basically a third transform for the minion effects that mesh together.