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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?

K

Karsticles

Member
I played about 10 matches with my Control Shaman deck I'm working on for Standard last night, and I went down one rank. I actually don't consider this to be too bad, because the 3 cards that made me struggle over and over were:
Dr. Boom
Sludge Belcher
The entire Secret Paladin deck.

Given that all 3 of these are leaving, I feel good.

toddhunter said:
5 ranked wins in a row to do my last quest.

Aggro Shaman, 100% standard cards.

Bring on the old gods.
Click to expand...
Just wait until Annoying-er-o-tron becomes standard in every deck.
 
G

gutshot

Member
Razakin said:
Got bored day or two ago, so decided to update gutshot's Google Doc/Spreadsheet to have Old Gods stuff, and some changes too. Like the nerf changes to mana costs, and those Murk-Eye etc. reward cards, also changed the adventures to have their own tabs for each. Makes it easier to do version to track golden cards in the future.

But that sadly means that on most cases you have to re-add the cards as you can't just copy paste the old fields.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing this! It looks great. I'm slammed at work and likely wouldn't have been able to update the spreadsheet until this weekend. Now it can be ready to go for everyone's pack opening spree today!
 
B

bjaelke

Member
RecRoulette said:
This was fun.

Turn 1: Coin into Whirling Zap-o-matic
His turn 2: Armor
Turn 2: Double Rockbiters, 18 to face

He immediately conceded. I'm gonna miss that little robot.
Click to expand...

stancifka-o.gif
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
Xamtheking said:
Alright so
I need some advice if possible
A few months back I decided to make a Dragon Priest, but I forgot I didn't have BRM.
So I came up with this:

I have approx 1800 dust right now, and I was wondering what I might want to put into this. Deathwing, Dragonlord seems nice, but seems a little slow, especially as I don't have a lot of healing. Advice plz
Click to expand...

To be completely honest, not having Blackwing Corruptor or Twilight Whelp really, really makes it hard to put together a solid dragon team.

BC on turn five, especially with Brann, eliminates most targets. With Zombie Chow leaving Standard, no Twilight Whelp is really rough. You're also going to be losing Velen's Chosen come tonight. If you're not going to get BRM, maybe look into getting the new five drop that heals five life? There aren't a lot of dragons in the new set and I don't think DW will work for you without having the other big dragon bombs like Chromaggus, Ysera, and Nefarian (who loses something when summoned without his battlecry.)

Double Thoughtsteal might be too slow in this meta unless you're facing a lot of control. I feel like lack of a good three drop will also hurt (since you don't have Technicians, ouch), but maybe a single Thoughtsteal and maybe the new Disciple of C'thun could help?

Or maybe a Sorcerer and go for more defense with Defender of Argus or Sunfury Protector?

If you have 1800 dust, then maybe Ysera might help? To be honest, though, the 1, 3, and 5 drops are pretty essential (as Apathy says) so I don't know if you'd live long enough to play her.

If you're going to stick with Standard, then you may just want to ride out this year without BRM. If you're playing Wild and want to do Dragon Priest, it may be worth purchasing a wing from BRM and then buying or crafting the rest.
 
A

Apathy

Member
Xamtheking said:
Alright so
I need some advice if possible
A few months back I decided to make a Dragon Priest, but I forgot I didn't have BRM.
So I came up with this:
Code: 
Mind Vision x2
Northshire Cleric x2
Worgen Infiltrator x2
Shadow Word: Pain x2
Faerie Dragon x2
Museum Curator x2
Wrymrest Agent x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
Thoughtsteal x2
Velen's Chosen
Brann Bronzebeard
Elise Starseeker
Twilight Drake x2
Twilight Guardian x2
Holy Nova x2
Azure Drake x2
Chillmaw
I have approx 1800 dust right now, and I was wondering what I might want to put into this. Deathwing, Dragonlord seems nice, but seems a little slow, especially as I don't have a lot of healing. Advice plz
Click to expand...

For a priest you give up so much if you don't have BRM and want to make a dragon deck. 1,3,5 drops are huge
 
X

Xamtheking

Member
KuroNeeko said:
To be completely honest, not having Blackwing Corruptor or Twilight Whelp really, really makes it hard to put together a solid dragon team.

BC on turn five, especially with Brann, eliminates most targets. With Zombie Chow leaving Standard, no Twilight Whelp is really rough. You're also going to be losing Velen's Chosen come tonight. If you're not going to get BRM, maybe look into getting the new five drop that heals five life? There aren't a lot of dragons in the new set and I don't think DW will work for you without having the other big dragon bombs like Chromaggus, Ysera, and Nefarian (who loses something when summoned without his battlecry.)

Double Thoughtsteal might be too slow in this meta unless you're facing a lot of control. I feel like lack of a good three drop will also hurt (since you don't have Technicians, ouch), but maybe a single Thoughtsteal and maybe the new Disciple of C'thun could help?

Or maybe a Sorcerer and go for more defense with Defender of Argus or Sunfury Protector?

If you have 1800 dust, then maybe Ysera might help? To be honest, though, the 1, 3, and 5 drops are pretty essential (as Apathy says) so I don't know if you'd live long enough to play her.

If you're going to stick with Standard, then you may just want to ride out this year without BRM. If you're playing Wild and want to do Dragon Priest, it may be worth purchasing a wing from BRM and then buying or crafting the rest.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think I might swap out the curators for some sunfurys, and I guess I'll replace Velens with Tentacles.
We'll see what I pull from packs
 
R

RecRoulette

Member
Do effects that bring in random cards only pull from Standard or is there a chance that they can pull from Wild too? Or does it matter based on ability?
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Karsticles said:
More deck options = never changing?
Click to expand...

Just like all the new deck options of Naxx, gvg, and TGT changed druid? They ended up being a deck that dealt 16 damage and then FON+SR to finish off, after starting out as a deck that dealt 16 damage and then finished off with FON+SR.

The meta would never change unless power creep occurred, which is a huge problem itself.
 
C

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Just like all the new deck options of Naxx, gvg, and TGT changed druid? They ended up being a deck that dealt 16 damage and then FON+SR to finish off, after starting out as a deck that dealt 16 damage and then finished off with FON+SR.

The meta would never change unless power creep occurred, which is a huge problem itself.
Click to expand...

Yep. Thank goodness Blizzard is doing this. The game needed the regular change so more deck options actually do become viable.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Just like all the new deck options of Naxx, gvg, and TGT changed druid? They ended up being a deck that dealt 16 damage and then FON+SR to finish off, after starting out as a deck that dealt 16 damage and then finished off with FON+SR.

The meta would never change unless power creep occurred, which is a huge problem itself.
Click to expand...
Or maybe you nerf FON, and Druids get to explore other deck archetypes.

Every Druid in the world uses FON+SR not because there's nothing else that's good, but because FON+SR is too good to ignore. It's the opposite of power creep - they needed to tone down the Classic cards to make other cards worth playing, and that's perfectly fine.

Also, your post is completely incoherent when there are many, many clear examples of dech archetypes coming into existence solely because of Adventures, and they aren't "competing" with power creep because they are thematically contained and sound. Dragon Classes are the most obvious. Then there's Grim Patron, Dreadlock, Monkey decks, etc. Blizzard should encourage more of these kinds of thematic decks, because they don't compete with the set - they compliment it.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Karsticles said:
I wish this game had a Palinchron or Morphling. Control decks really don't have a lot of good creature options, do they?
Click to expand...
Control decks really don't have much of anything.

Healing? Super inefficient and hard to come by especially now with Healbot (which is leaving). Healbot on paper is a terrible card but people have to play it for the 8 heal on a 5 mana card. Now people have to rely on weaksauce heals of Earthenring Farseer and Refreshment Vendor if your class doesn't have a massive heal card.

AOEs? Limited to a select few classes, the rest get shafted on particularly Druids and Rogues. No real punishment for swarming against them. Shaman just got Elemental Destruction when before you could easily swarm them with 3 or more HP minions.

Taunts? Aside from Belcher (which is leaving), taunts for most classes are supremely weak and inefficient. The best taunts are Tirion (big silence target and 8 mana cost) and the Druid taunts. Rest generally aren't good enough. You know it's bad when it's 2016 and people are still using god damn Senjins. Deathlord is a good taunt in Priest but it's leaving standard.

Early game defensive minions? Zombie Chow, Explosive Sheep, Unstable Ghoul and Annoyotron to hold off early game... all leaving Standard.

Late game win condition? Only Warlock actually has one in the form of Jaraxxus... maybe Anubarak in Rogue. So many control games just come down to fatigue, there's no "if I make it to this turn I pretty much win because I play my win condition". This is probably being rectified with Cthun decks though Cthun decks aren't really control decks they are more like Midrange decks. Right now control decks run Elise as a win condition which I don't like because it makes late game control battles a match of RNG of who got the better deal on Legendaries.


Control for the non control classes is pretty god damn bad. Hunter, Druid, Rogue, Shaman control game play is abysmal. Priest and Paladin don't really have a late game finisher, if Paladin gets their Tirion taken care of then they have to play a long game too. Warrior only has a Grommash finisher but nowadays with Justicar even that doesn't close out games anymore. Mages have Antonidas I guess but that's better played in the combo Freeze Mage deck.

Control game play has basically become fatigue game play these days because of how weak they are at actually finishing games. Only Handlock/Renlock has late game finishing power as a control deck.
 
X

Xamtheking

Member
Let's take a magical journey through time and space to an alternate dimension where Warsong Commander was never nerfed
Say you have a Warsong and a 8/8 sea/mountain/molten giant on the board turn 9, and they both stick around by turn 10
If you have a Faceless Shambler, you could attack with your 8/8, play Faceless Shamber on the 8/8, the Faceless Shambler would get charge, allowing you to attack with an 8/8 again, and then you could Faceless Shambler AGAIN and get a total of 24 damage in 1 turn
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
Xamtheking said:
Let's take a magical journey through time and space to an alternate dimension where Warsong Commander was never nerfed
Say you have a Warsong and a 8/8 sea/mountain/molten giant on the board turn 9, and they both stick around by turn 10
If you have a Faceless Shambler, you could attack with your 8/8, play Faceless Shamber on the 8/8, the Faceless Shambler would get charge, allowing you to attack with an 8/8 again, and then you could Faceless Shambler AGAIN and get a total of 24 damage in 1 turn
Click to expand...

Before the first Warsong nerf (at first it was just "Your other minions have Charge."), OTK Molten Giant Warrior was a thing.
 
L

Levi

Banned
Crafted a Greenskin for the quest and pulled a "The Beast" from a Spectate quest pack, which means I am now only 6 Classic Legendaries away from a complete Classic collection. Since they are all too terrible to craft, It's gonna take a while to pull them from Brawl/Spectate/Arena packs...

Who knows, maybe there'll be some brawl where Millhouse, Cho, Gruul and Pagle are must-haves and I'll be able justify crafting them.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Trying to win a few games as a mill rogue for a quest and I haven't seen a coldlight oracle in three games. I see what's going on here.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
CoolOff said:
Forbidden Ancient with that 120!
Click to expand...
Glad that thing is an epic so it doesn't actually impact Druid Arena all that much but man I would've eaten a lot of crow if that thing was a common.


Also Old Gods patch to go up in a couple of hours... prepare a hearty breakfast because...

tonight-we-dine-in-hell_681208.gif
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Karsticles said:
Or maybe you nerf FON, and Druids get to explore other deck archetypes.

Every Druid in the world uses FON+SR not because there's nothing else that's good, but because FON+SR is too good to ignore. It's the opposite of power creep - they needed to tone down the Classic cards to make other cards worth playing, and that's perfectly fine.

Also, your post is completely incoherent when there are many, many clear examples of dech archetypes coming into existence solely because of Adventures, and they aren't "competing" with power creep because they are thematically contained and sound. Dragon Classes are the most obvious. Then there's Grim Patron, Dreadlock, Monkey decks, etc. Blizzard should encourage more of these kinds of thematic decks, because they don't compete with the set - they compliment it.
Click to expand...

So combo druid would be dead and perhaps the next top deck would then forever remain among the top decks. The meta would still not change much. Top decks would just continually get more efficient, as we've seen with zoolock. The game would continue to head in a tempo only direction with every super efficient minion that is added to the game. The times we've seen shake ups have been when they add a new power creep card to the game, like dr. boom, and mysterious challenger, and people really hate that. Patron warrior is a clear example that they had to nerf the hell out of warsong commander to stop. Dreadlock? I guess you mean demon lock? Enabled by an absurd 4 drop, again pushing the power curve for 4 drops.

Pretty much every pro agrees that the game was becoming stale as hell. And it has. Removing combo druid doesn't change that much. What would you do about zoolock? Which was becoming insane. Or secret paladin, which would only improve over time. Yes, there have been some new archetypes. It hasn't been exactly the same, nor is that what I said. But for the most part, expansions have only improved existing good decks.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Removing Combo Druid did absolutely nothing to the meta and the past 2 days were proof of it.

People just doubled up on Secret Paladin and Zoolock with the occasional Freeze Mage. Ladder was the exact same thing only with no Druids and Rogues worth their salt online.
 
F

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Dahbomb said:
Removing Combo Druid did absolutely nothing to the meta and the past 2 days were proof of it.

People just doubled up on Secret Paladin and Zoolock with the occasional Freeze Mage. Ladder was the exact same thing only with no Druids and Rogues worth their salt online.
Click to expand...
So it did something.
 
I

inky

Member
I haven't played that much Druid because I lost an Ancient and Keeper. I never used combo.

Combo needed to die, but they are taking other tools with it to push C'Thun and Beast Druid this expansion (which are not ready yet, hence no more Druids).
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
So has Blizzard said if they are going to continue the practice of empahsizing the most recent set in arena? I would assume they do, but I don't want to jump in there and get a bunch of TGT crap.
 
H

hollomat

Banned
QFNS said:
So has Blizzard said if they are going to continue the practice of empahsizing the most recent set in arena? I would assume they do, but I don't want to jump in there and get a bunch of TGT crap.
Click to expand...

From what I've read it sounds like they're going back to the system when GVG first came out. You're guaranteed to get an old gods pack from arena. If you get two packs, there's a chance the second pack will be from a different set.
 
A

Apathy

Member
QFNS said:
So has Blizzard said if they are going to continue the practice of empahsizing the most recent set in arena? I would assume they do, but I don't want to jump in there and get a bunch of TGT crap.
Click to expand...

Do you mean as rewards or as drafting? Drafting gets bonus to the newest expansion or adventure. Rewards will give you packs of whatever is in standard, so tgt and gods
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
hollomat said:
From what I've read it sounds like they're going back to the system when GVG first came out. You're guaranteed to get an old gods pack from arena. If you get two packs, there's a chance the second pack will be from a different set.
Click to expand...

No, I believe they said they will keep random packs but you only get packs for currently standard sets.

bunbun777 said:
This set introduces giant monsters aplenty and if anyone expects bgh not to be used they are fooling themselves.
Click to expand...

It will be, but it'll also be a bit more meta dependent. Also I can't imagine something like zoolock running a 5 mana 4/2. They could run a 3 man 4/2 because it's still fairly okay to play on turn 3.

In other decks, people will cut it if its a heavy aggro meta, and swap it back in when control warrior or w/e comes in to counter it.
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Apathy said:
Do you mean as rewards or as drafting? Drafting gets bonus to the newest expansion or adventure. Rewards will give you packs of whatever is in standard, so tgt and gods
Click to expand...

Hm ok I didn't realize they were changing the rewards too. Good to know. I don't go into arena very often, but that makes sense I guess if they have removed the GvG stuff. Still seems like they should let you choose what pack you want, but maybe that would be too good somehow.
 
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