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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
i'm Owzers, we are already friends and i spy on you sometimes.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
mysteriousmage09
Member
The skill i'm seeing on display loss after loss is through the roof. People saying the skill ceiling is high in this game are sniffing fucking glue.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Just a few thoughts on what you have so far. You don't have any 4 drops. Also shadowstrike... I love that card. And I don't think shadowcaster will be capable of consistently getting value.
Twilight summoner is both a good n'zoth revive and shadowcaster target. People may try to ignore your twilight summoner to avoid giving you a 5/5, so shadowcaster comes down and you have a new one for 1 mana. That also makes it a good unearthed raptor target.
Defender of argus is normally a good fit for deathrattle rogue when the deck has a lot of sticky minions. But this one doesn't. But you also lack taunts which you might need to live long enough, or after n'zoth hits. Not sure if DOA fits, but perhaps.
I've heard good things about journey below btw. Getting two sylvanas seems real good.
Lastly, not sure if loot hoarder + huckster really work in this meta. Not only are they fairly weak off n'zoth, they may actually block n'zoth from summoning good minions. I believe they summon in order of deaths. So if you play 2-3 of these, you limit n'zoth's ability to summon better minions to revive. If you have an existing board, that might block n'zoth from being good entirely.
edit:
I made a list I may try out if I craft the cards. I don't think I have twilight summoners yet. Still need n'zoth. http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=166132/dr-rogue-feat-nzoth
I'm still not happy with it though. I want to curve out better with more minions.
So what do you see as the good rogue decks now, C'thun? That funky backspace list with Bladed Cultist? Dog's Deathrattle? Reno? Miracle? They've all got their ups and downs, and some are much more straightforward and intuitive than others. None of them will faceroll to victory like a proper meta deck.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Humiliating Deathwing
Scary 1/12
Scary 1/12
Infernodash
Member
Easiest win for Priest right now are Druid Cthun players. They just keep conceding midway through, I don't even get to drop my Nzoth.
They aren't, but many deck work really well even with very little effort.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
WOW
Had some hot Shaman 4 Shaman action and I had the dude down to 1 with me at 10 and he pulls that +3 attack card with two hits left on his Doomhammer.
I go "What do you mean Well Play--OH MY FUCKING GOD"
Had to friend him just so I can say "THAT WAS FUCKING AMAZING"
Had some hot Shaman 4 Shaman action and I had the dude down to 1 with me at 10 and he pulls that +3 attack card with two hits left on his Doomhammer.
I go "What do you mean Well Play--OH MY FUCKING GOD"
Had to friend him just so I can say "THAT WAS FUCKING AMAZING"
Kolento trying to BM, his opponent had 2 life left, no board, kolento wanted to kill off his own flamewaker with a arcane blast and then use the arcane missiles in his hand to kill his opponent. He kills his flamewaker but before it died it shot out the fireball from the arcane blast proc and kolento is surprised he couldn't be the guy
Karsticles
Member
It's less amazing each time it happens, and it happens a lot.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
When you have 31 healing in hand at 30 life... Control Paladin pretty good, still need a couple hundred gold for the 2nd LoE adventure
Please tell me that just didn't happen...
Is it time to pop off?
Yes it's god damn time to pop off!!!
Was playing my Priest for a quest against a Zoolock. He plays Imp Gang Boss with Abusive on board. I have Wild Pyro and Shadow Pain, easy clear. I go to Pain the Imp Gang and instead of clearing the whole board.... I see a god damn Imp spawned and lived through Wild Pyro effect...
This is most obviously a bug as Wild Pyro effect is after spell so the Imp Gang should've been removed but instead Blizzard introduced a new bug that resulted in Wild Pyro activating before resulting in the Imp spawn. That one minion snowballed out of control and I rage quit half way through match.
You god damn messed up Blizzard. As if Priest needed another thing to get crapped on for. Not playing Priest or Pyromancer until this garbage bug is fixed.
Now I wonder if this happens with Acolyte too.
Is it time to pop off?
Yes it's god damn time to pop off!!!
Was playing my Priest for a quest against a Zoolock. He plays Imp Gang Boss with Abusive on board. I have Wild Pyro and Shadow Pain, easy clear. I go to Pain the Imp Gang and instead of clearing the whole board.... I see a god damn Imp spawned and lived through Wild Pyro effect...
This is most obviously a bug as Wild Pyro effect is after spell so the Imp Gang should've been removed but instead Blizzard introduced a new bug that resulted in Wild Pyro activating before resulting in the Imp spawn. That one minion snowballed out of control and I rage quit half way through match.
You god damn messed up Blizzard. As if Priest needed another thing to get crapped on for. Not playing Priest or Pyromancer until this garbage bug is fixed.
Now I wonder if this happens with Acolyte too.
I noticed that bug with Wild Pyro too, Dahbomb.
I'm not sure if it is only related to Imp Gang boss, but I remember doing a similar play, except I was playing Mage and it was an Arcane Explosion and my opponent had a Spawn of N'Zoth on board and the imp (maybe even other minions) didn't get the +1/+1. God, I wish I could remember the exact turn of events because it didn't quite look right (and in that case it benefited me).
It's always dumb stuff in this game. Like when Keeper of the Grove wouldn't proc Knife Juggler and the like.
I'm not sure if it is only related to Imp Gang boss, but I remember doing a similar play, except I was playing Mage and it was an Arcane Explosion and my opponent had a Spawn of N'Zoth on board and the imp (maybe even other minions) didn't get the +1/+1. God, I wish I could remember the exact turn of events because it didn't quite look right (and in that case it benefited me).
It's always dumb stuff in this game. Like when Keeper of the Grove wouldn't proc Knife Juggler and the like.
Infernodash
Member
Always a fucking Shaman to end my Priest winning streaks. Every god damn time.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Playing around mirror entity and ice block cost me a game because it was effigy and counter... Why didn't that freeze mage play the obvious stuff!
Blizzard removed Death Processing from the Spell Text Phase for some weird reason. I think they were trying to "fix" some interactions like Fire Elemental and Mad Scientist and screwed with things they shouldn't have.
https://youtu.be/ed2hZBXd9Mk
OK, that's just too confusing for me. So Fire Elemental does not trigger Mirror Entity, but Kodo still would?
No. Fire Elemental and Kodo both trigger their effects in the battlecry phase, but since the death triggers are delayed now, neither will trigger a mirror entity off Mad Scientist.
Blizzard should have delayed the secret activation instead of removing the death processing from entire phases imo. Delaying the death triggers makes this all very sloppy.
BananasWithGuns
Member
This is odd. You'd think they would have just changed how battlecries work in this context instead of changing how the game checks/processes minion deaths.
mysteriousmage09
Member
I just lost to a shaman that that played....well, let's go down the list to showcase the insane amount skill that was just put on display.
-Tuskarr Totemic on turn 3, from opening hand
-Top decked Flamewreathed Faceless on turn 4
-Spirit Wolves on turn 5, from opening hand
-Top decked Flamewreathed Faceless on turn 6
I coined out Twin Emps on turn 6 because jesus christ. Finally get some board presence again. Fun continues!
-Top decked Spirit Wolves on Turn 7
-Top decked Hex on turn 8
-Top decked Tuskarr Totemic on turn 9
I play 13/13 C'thun, completely cleared the board, finally some fucking luck.......
-TOP DECK HEX TURN 10
-Top deck Mana Tide Totem on turn when he's down to 2 cards in hand
-Top deck Flametongue Totem and a Doomhammer from the Mana Tide Totem
At this point he's really low on life and cant trade. I play a Twilight Elder, maybe still pull this together with a win!
....
........
-Top deck Lightning storm, hero powers, wins the 1 out of 4 for Spell Power Totem, yolo's, you guessed it, wins the 50/50 and hits for 4.
Can't draw a minion so i freeze him with a Frostbolt hoping to god for something to go my way for once. Totems go down as he continues to hit face for 4 after the freeze effect is done. I actually gain lethal for the next turn provided nothing stupid happens.
-Top decked Bloodlust.
Loss
Was playing C'thun Mage and even had a good curve as could be figured with the twin Emps coin getting them both and C'thun on turn 10 but it didn't matter for shit. Skill took a clear backseat. Now, i'd give it a pass and just move on.....but this is directly after 3 similar horseshit games that all netted losses because my opponents are sleeping with the algorithm that handles the rng in this game.
Examples
Playing Murloc Paladin, get great board presence early on buffs, the Paladin that i'm playing plays 2 Equalities and a Concencrate within the first 10 draws, and wins with a topdeck Argent Crusader for exact lethal after doing the SMOrc such skill build.
Using same deck, play zoolock (seriously, go fuck yourself Blizzard). Warlock has PERFECT curve, with Darkshire Counsilman, Forbidden Ritual into turn 5 Sea Giant. I clear the board with trades and Concencrate. He topdecks the 2nd Forbidden Ritual and plays it along with Imp Gang Boss. Needless to say, the bullshit kept rolling with top decks and hero power.
One more time with this deck, play against a Mage. Perfect hand with double Mana Wyrm, Flamewaker and Arcane Missiles, etc. I'm sure we've all see this movie before.
Swap to C'thun Mage and queue the top decking extravaganza. Dropped 2 ranks because of this nonsense. Went on 4 game winning streaks with both decks earlier today. Rank 12 fyi.
I thought the "losing to C'thun on turn 10" meta was bad, but this aggro shit is much, much worse, and cards like Darkshire Counsilman and Flamewreathed Faceless are no doubt already on the list of cards to be nerfed. Implosion and Dr. fucking 7 weren't even this bad.
End rant.
The Wizard
Member
C'thun Shaman is legit. I'm suprised how well evolve and the c'thun cards work together.
The best solution would have been to delay secret activation, not screw with this particular interaction by hardcoding it. That is also very sloppy.
Secrets are meant to be cards that you have to think and play around. That means that any interaction where a secret is put into play and immediately resolves goes against the nature of the mechanic. Fire Elemental and similar battlecries aren't the only problem here. If you board clear with a mad scientist in play it used to trigger duplicate immediately.
What should instead happen is that secrets continue to get pulled into play from death processing, but shouldn't "activate" until the end of the sequence.
Fire Elemental is played
Battlecry goes off, kills Scientist. Mirror Entity goes up but is dark.
Any "after play" triggers go off.
Mirror Entity lights up.
That makes way more sense.
Happens with councilman too, it gets a +1 buff from faceless even though faceless summoned it. That makes no sense.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I stumbled a bit at first with this deck but it's starting to shape out pretty good. My best start was turn 2 coin + undercity valiant + bladed cultist. It's a fast tempo deck. My opponent rogue was overwhelmed. Turn 3 I backstabbed + si7 agent. Turn 4 he played a minion finally, I sapped it. Turn 5, he played the same minion, I sapped and played second si7 agent. He got rekt even after putting a taunt up.
Same deal happened with a control warrior, although a bit slower. I got my silithid out on turn 3 and he couldn't deal with that. The next turn I got 2 bladed cultists out. Still figuring out whether certain cards are worth running over others. Like knife juggler fits instead of huckster, dark iron dwarf fits instead of southsea squidface. But I figure these cards deserve a chance to prove themselves.
Southsea squidface ate a big burn spell, so maybe it's alright.
Xaril has been okay. He got me a +attack and a +stealth in one match. It wasn't used though since it was zoo and they got nearly a perfect start sadface.
Because addled grizzly is an after summon affect, it checks to see if any minions were summoned at the end of an event. So faceless + addled grizzly being added to the board = 1 event. At the end of the event it sees that faceless was summoned, so it buffs it.
Same deal happened with a control warrior, although a bit slower. I got my silithid out on turn 3 and he couldn't deal with that. The next turn I got 2 bladed cultists out. Still figuring out whether certain cards are worth running over others. Like knife juggler fits instead of huckster, dark iron dwarf fits instead of southsea squidface. But I figure these cards deserve a chance to prove themselves.
Southsea squidface ate a big burn spell, so maybe it's alright.
Xaril has been okay. He got me a +attack and a +stealth in one match. It wasn't used though since it was zoo and they got nearly a perfect start sadface.
Because addled grizzly is an after summon affect, it checks to see if any minions were summoned at the end of an event. So faceless + addled grizzly being added to the board = 1 event. At the end of the event it sees that faceless was summoned, so it buffs it.
Super Nothing
Member
Yep, that interaction won me a game in Arena. Got a 6/6 Faceless and then played a Mana Wyrm to make it a 2/4. That allowed me to kill an Ironbark and hit face with my other minions.
No. Battlecries still trigger after the minion enters play. "After you summon/play" effects trigger after battlecries. If Addled Grizzly said "Whenever you summon" then it wouldn't have buffed the Faceless Summoner, because "Whenever you summon/play" effects occur before battlecries.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Been thinking about trying this as well. Some of the C'Thun minions seem like they'd fit pretty well in a midrange Shaman shell. I'm a bit hesitant to craft Twin Emps though and I don't know why lol.
Yeah that would definitely make more sense.
It's just really strange to me they tried to fix it by changing something that results in far more reaching consequences.
Gotcha, and yes this is absolutely sloppy and should've come up in testing. (Maybe it did but they figured it didn't matter that much, which is it's own can of worms). Well, as someone who always argued that 'Battlecry Effect -> Mad Scientist -> Mirror Entity Triggered' was absurd I feel some kind of vindication, even if it is for the wrong reasons.
Oh Blizzard.
Blizzard has said that they don't want an advanced rulebook. I think there's a high probability that they don't even have an advanced rulebook internally for their own testing and consistency. Maybe only their programmers really have their heads around how the different phases work. Some community members like Patashu probably know more about these rules than 90% of the devs.
Meanwhile this stuff gets changed and people blame wild pyro and have no idea why shit doesn't work like it used to.
When it comes to the tradional things that people rage over in the game the one thing that's never ever really bothered me is topdecks. I'll get upset at rng swings or OP combos but an opponent drawing a card they needed that they specifically put in their deck or drafted because they wanted to use that specific card I can't get mad at.
Only times it can get me is if they have no hand and top deck lethal or something but even then I still feel like they had that last ounce of steam to finish it rather than some jerk getting insanely lucky daring to draw a card he put in his deck.
Only times it can get me is if they have no hand and top deck lethal or something but even then I still feel like they had that last ounce of steam to finish it rather than some jerk getting insanely lucky daring to draw a card he put in his deck.
RecRoulette
Member
Yep, ironically the class that got no specific C'thun cards still does fine. Most low level C'thun cards are battlecry cards with average stats aka perfect evolution fodder.
You have a tendency to have a lot of 3-cost cards, but since you're sitting on turn 5 a lot due to Flamewreathed anyway, it works.
Brann does a lot of good work too, dropped one of my Feral Spirits for him. Bumping a Nerubian Prophet to an 8 instantly or doing 4 damage with Disciple is great.
so he drew his good cards when he needed them and beat you and now you're salty, what do you expect? Should he draw cards he didn't put in his deck? Sure he got lucky but everybody gets lucky sometimes. Do you want to never lose to a deck that's more aggressive than yours?
Maybe Flamewreathed and Councilman should be looked at, they're definitely both VERY strong cards but I don't think it can come at the expense of the viability of those midrange/tempo deck archetypes.
RecRoulette
Member
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but it sounds like you're playing Freeze Mage?
Edit: Sorry, thought it was freeze mage. Still, sometimes you get unlucky. That's just how it goes.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Why is it everytime I face a Zoolock they get every meaningful card in the top ten drawn, and I can't get a single lightning storm?
The Wizard
Member
Twin Emps into evolve into two 8 drops on turn 8 is delicious, there are almost no bad ones to get too.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Yeah, I don't understand it. It's crushing sometimes but it's just luck. You gotta love it.
It's in the game.
FormallyFamicom
Member
What is the Priest list you're seeing success with?
mysteriousmage09
Member
I'm ok with luck but that was one of the most absurd games i've seen unfold and i've been playing this game since the open beta days. 7/7 into 2 2/3 taunts into 7/7 into 2 2/3 taunts on perfect curve into a hex on the exact turn C'thun is played is a bit more than lucky. Dude should be rushing to the nearest casino after that.
See edit, but C'thun mage so Beckoner of Evil, Cult Sorcerer, Disciple of C'thun, Twilight Elder, etc. As I said, I even had good enough curve to coin on the Emps on turn 6 and get both of em out, but they fell as easily as do in retail WoW now days.
Tried kripp's c'thun shaman out besides swapping Onyxia for an Earthshock or something because i'm not crafting that, it was bad enough i had to craft two masters of evolution and one evolve spell. First match: Freeze mage. Barely won, it was great getting a brann down and double Tuskarring. That deck has almost no direct damage and everything kept getting freezed, had to use C'thun to deal 1 damage to finish it after the second ice block.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
We should all start referring to decks without a god as atheist decks.
you're just inviting a ton of "checkmate atheists" memes
I've never seen anyone say that and surely no one believes it?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
A lot of people including pros, even before standard.
So C'Thun Shaman is called Theistic Evolution?