The difference between you and new players is that you have a lot of experience and skill already. Most of the veterans here can probably bring a basic and class card only deck to rank 10 with relative ease. But that's not the new player experience.
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Hearthstone |OT6| C'THUN for President! Why pick the lesser evil?
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
The difference between you and new players is that you have a lot of experience and skill already. Most of the veterans here can probably bring a basic and class card only deck to rank 10 with relative ease. But that's not the new player experience.
Karsticles
Member
You mean a person that knows the meta like the back of his hand, exactly what cards to go for, which decks are efficient and can be made, and knows how the game plays will be able to accumulate gold and viable decks faster than a newbie? Color me impressed!
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think manhack posted some good looking budget decks earlier in the thread. You don't need to be a good deck builder to copy someone else's work.
That kinda proves that advancement is a matter of learning the game and playing well, not a new player's lack of dust.
That kinda proves that advancement is a matter of learning the game and playing well, not a new player's lack of dust.
Ok so now we have moved the goal post to game requires lots of experience and knowledge to do well at.
No duh. New player's bigger issue is lack of skill, fundamentals and knowledge over deck quality.
Not saying deck quality doesn't matter, it makes things a lot easier and smoother but the main thing new players should be working on is skill and knowledge.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4jxtw1/shengs_budget_standard_decks_for_all_9_classes/
Here's the link that I think Mobius is referring too. I can't vouch for those decks but they're probably good starting goals for new players and players lacking in collection.
Here's the link that I think Mobius is referring too. I can't vouch for those decks but they're probably good starting goals for new players and players lacking in collection.
Karsticles
Member
You don't know what decks TO copy if you're new. There are decks all over the internet.
NO, I am not talking about doing well. I am talking about how long it takes you to do things like dailies vs. a new player. Of course your collection will grow faster, and you will know which cards to make, etc.
Whatever, though. I'll just let you all keep telling new players that their experiences aren't legitimate. That's been successful so far.
I think you're confusing me for another poster. I don't think lack of dust is what's holding people back. It's definitely experience that is holding people back.
However I still stand by the statement that 2000 dust is a lot for new players to get and the new player experience is not an easy one. It's hard to learn when you're getting your face smashed endlessly.
"Playing a lot" is the rub there. Trying to grind out 30 wins a day to cap gold is horrific, even (I'd say especially) in arena. That's a full time job. I've never hit rank 5 and I could make any deck I want.
I don't know, maybe I am not sure how fast people expect to make 2000 dust in the game. Are people expecting to make it in a week? That's not feasible really unless you get insanely lucky in packs.
I think starting out you can make 2000 dust in three weeks (with the extra packs, extra initial free dust, extra quests) and then get to rank 5 in that last week of the month with a budget deck.
Now if the new player is expecting to reach Legend in a months time, then I would say that is difficult (not impossible, just pretty difficult). But why would a new player want to progress past rank 5? Their focus should be on getting as many good cards as possible and learning the game, rank 5 is their end goal, not even starting goal.
I think starting out you can make 2000 dust in three weeks (with the extra packs, extra initial free dust, extra quests) and then get to rank 5 in that last week of the month with a budget deck.
Now if the new player is expecting to reach Legend in a months time, then I would say that is difficult (not impossible, just pretty difficult). But why would a new player want to progress past rank 5? Their focus should be on getting as many good cards as possible and learning the game, rank 5 is their end goal, not even starting goal.
as someone whose never done that brawl before, it was really really fun. I wish there was more stuff like that in the game. coop battle in an adventure would be cool to see one time... like if they did normal mode, heroic mode, and coop mode for whatever the next adventure is... that would be cool.
also, i found out that you dont win the free deck if you invite a friend for the brawl, which makes sense... but should probably be okay for specifically this one.
also, i found out that you dont win the free deck if you invite a friend for the brawl, which makes sense... but should probably be okay for specifically this one.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
What is 2k dust? 20 packs (I think people calculated lifetime average 100 dust per pack)? WOG gives you 13... the achievements give you like 7 or something? Perhaps 10 when you do them all?
edit:
There are 8 achievements or rewards that get you 100g or a pack, and the first card you dust gets you an extra 95. So basically 8 packs. 100 wins gets you 300g more.
Oh, then after you hit level 20, which will take some time, you start getting a pack a week from brawl.
edit:
There are 8 achievements or rewards that get you 100g or a pack, and the first card you dust gets you an extra 95. So basically 8 packs. 100 wins gets you 300g more.
Oh, then after you hit level 20, which will take some time, you start getting a pack a week from brawl.
I think a new players goal should be to be able to complete all the dailies they get in a reasonable time frame per play session. But it's really hard when you're behind on both fronts (experience AND decks). I see people grinding for HOURS to finish ONE quest. That's kind of ridiculous. I don't think ranking up should be a concern at all. If you're new and stuck at rank 20... well that's kind of appropriate until you get more experience.
I like that this thread gives new players advice and helps people refine their decks. I don't like the dismissive attitude veterans have when newer players express their hardships.
I have a friend who wants to like the game but can't even finish the Win X quests to get all the free Old Gods packs before quitting out of frustration. And that makes me sad.
Back when I was learning the game, the competition definitely was not of this level. You had obvious beginners all the way up to rank 15. But I saw Miracle Rogues ranking up to 20 on my other (dormant) account just this morning. Sure, the player wasn't all that good, but if you're new and playing against bad people, the card quality matters a whole lot more.
I guess, in the end, I'm just whining about a community thread and so I'm out of line.
I like that this thread gives new players advice and helps people refine their decks. I don't like the dismissive attitude veterans have when newer players express their hardships.
I have a friend who wants to like the game but can't even finish the Win X quests to get all the free Old Gods packs before quitting out of frustration. And that makes me sad.
Back when I was learning the game, the competition definitely was not of this level. You had obvious beginners all the way up to rank 15. But I saw Miracle Rogues ranking up to 20 on my other (dormant) account just this morning. Sure, the player wasn't all that good, but if you're new and playing against bad people, the card quality matters a whole lot more.
I guess, in the end, I'm just whining about a community thread and so I'm out of line.
daily quest advice for new players: Don't try to force wins with awful decks. Reroll for "deal X amount of damage", " play x amount of 5 mana cost monsters or 2 mana monsters and lower", "win 3 matches"
Some of my least-enjoyable hearthstone playing was trying to force a 5 wins with a deck i had nothing for.
Some of my least-enjoyable hearthstone playing was trying to force a 5 wins with a deck i had nothing for.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I thought my advice to build a budget deck was accurate. Not sure what we're doing wrong. Person has problem building decent deck? So I suggest he makes a cheap but reasonable version of it. I don't have links on hand to give him, otherwise I would have. Or if he has an idea of what kind of deck he wants to build, more advice can be given. Not sure what the problem there is.
Back when I was new, you couldn't even reroll quests lol
Back when I was new, you couldn't even reroll quests lol
Karsticles
Member
FYI, it took me almost 2 months to get the 100 win quest. Hitting level 20 was day 2 or 3.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Yeah, I remember first 100 wins taking a while. But I think it includes practice wins too iirc.
Rewards overall have been getting better. In Arena they got better, then they got worse (getting common cards as rewards at high wins is the worst), then now with the chance of a double pack past 3 and more stuff like Legendary cards at high wins it's a bit better again. But yeah, in constructed now you get free spectate packs, re-roll quests, more quest variety, and just more starting aid overall.
I think a lot has to do with new players managing their expectations. The competition and card quality has gone up and there's a lot of basics you have to understand and aren't as evident right away. Back then, with less card variety just playing for value took you far, even in constructed. Nowadays it is imperative to dominate concepts like tempo and combo and control and understand win conditions before you fly up the ladder. When people say you can play mindless decks and take them to legend they assume a bit of knowledge of the game as well.
Learning to gauge if you are winning or losing at any given time is essential too.
I think a lot has to do with new players managing their expectations. The competition and card quality has gone up and there's a lot of basics you have to understand and aren't as evident right away. Back then, with less card variety just playing for value took you far, even in constructed. Nowadays it is imperative to dominate concepts like tempo and combo and control and understand win conditions before you fly up the ladder. When people say you can play mindless decks and take them to legend they assume a bit of knowledge of the game as well.
Learning to gauge if you are winning or losing at any given time is essential too.
that face warrior has a lot of turns of weapon swings in it.
I feel lucky that when I started playing hearthstone a lot of focus was on Arena because the constructed ladder didn't exist at the time. So I was able to farm up a lot of resources just playing and being good at the game. I didn't feel like I was missing out because I wasn't playing the OG Miracoli or anything.
I feel lucky that when I started playing hearthstone a lot of focus was on Arena because the constructed ladder didn't exist at the time. So I was able to farm up a lot of resources just playing and being good at the game. I didn't feel like I was missing out because I wasn't playing the OG Miracoli or anything.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
he is the most fun card in the game so yes
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Playing phonetap's hunter was really interesting. Winning way way more often than the midrange hunter I made.
I think the most surprising thing is how much better deadly shot is than hunters mark. Your minions on board are just too valuable to trade into anything more than they have to, and I hate having to rely on random pings or waste a weak unleash the hounds on it.
I just hate that King's Elekk always fails the joust no matter what.
I think the most surprising thing is how much better deadly shot is than hunters mark. Your minions on board are just too valuable to trade into anything more than they have to, and I hate having to rely on random pings or waste a weak unleash the hounds on it.
I just hate that King's Elekk always fails the joust no matter what.
wow jugglers and huge toads?
irfaanator
Banned
yea I've been adjusting my list based on yagut's and some other lists and deadly shot plus stampeding kodo have been great help. Some include double tundra rhino which I think is a bit too much so idk. I removed firey bat's from my list but may include them back in w/ a desert camel. I also included 1 tracking which has been great even though I am not a fan of the discard, but it does help getting answers in certain situations, which is one of hunter's great weakness. Losing card advantage/no card draw
It's a P2W game where they throw free packs at you like crazy including a sold legendary and a bunch of synergy cards AND the class with the highest winrate in the game has decklists that are extremely cheap to craft AND where they cut the barrier in entry in half by removing two expansions from Standard just recently.
There's a lot things to be critical of in the ladder system and the new user experience, but I do not think it's accurate to call this game P2W.
Rosenskjold
Member
What is he countering with the faerie dragon?That Faerie Dragon tech
Literal god
Brb gonna play some Chakki Warrior
Some folks won't be happy unless Blizzard makes it so all you have to do is log in and you get a full golden collection and all the alternate heroes as a reward for starting one game.
This is a game where you can pay with time (patiently grinding gold for packs and doing the quests that reward free packs and/or gold) or with money. If someone doesn't want to spend money, that's fine, but then whining they can't have as much as fast as the people who are actually supporting the game... sorry, I don't have any sympathy.
Can you get legend with basic cards? Nope. Can you win games and have fun with a limited collection? Yup.
Early game removal to guarantee damage and then do the okie doke by making them think it's Dragon Warrior.
Backstab! Sure to be a lot of Rogues in the tournament. (plus every other spell based removal in the game, but my feeling is that backstab is the primary reason for Faerie Dragon)
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Doubt it. Faerie dragon dies to si7 and deadly poison anyway.
Rosenskjold
Member
Nice, the bluff doesn't really work with decklists out though
I stayed because of this, i knew if i payed some money into the game i would level out. The last game i put money into was kingdom conquest 2...and i have many regrets for ever playing that game.
If they coin SI-7 that's a win as it's one less Gadgetzan spell I guess? And rogues mully for Backstab, not so much for Deadly Poison. Although I guess since decklists are public they may change that strategy.
I dunno, I guess it was pointless to use Faerie Dragon. He should use Flame Juggler instead.
I think the problem with that deck is more related to running out of steam. Sure it's an aggro deck but even in this environment the aggro decks run some way to comeback (Quickshot, Life Tap, Ancestral Knowledge, Divine Favor etc).People doubting the Chakki factor
But then again it's god damn Chakki. Dude once brought a full fatigue line up to a tournament and won (though it was a smaller one).
Oh for sure, I don't think I've ever seen a Face Warrior not run out of steam in a tournament. Classic Reynoodle, he kept bringing it and always got rekt.
I think it is fair to say that you will not start Hearthstone from scratch, playing Free to Play only and hit Rank 5 or higher in the first month unless you have played the game before, get really good at arena very quickly, grind out gold everyday and/or get really lucky with pack openings.
That said, I think somebody who completes daily quests, finishes all the basic achievements and devotes at least an hour or 2 a day or a chunk of time every couple of days a can make 1 good deck in a month and have 2-3 decent decks after a few months. There is no reason somebody who devotes time to the game cannot hit rank 5 after a few months of playtime. (we all know expert players can reach Legend in a month with a F2P account, but I think that is besides the point)
For that you need to:
I truly think the last bit is where most people fall short and even people, like me, who have played the game so much they have every golden hero portrait, start to find themselves doing worse than expected.
You need to play a lot of games, with a good win percentage, to make it to rank 5.
Legend can take twice as many games or more. If you have trouble hitting your desired rank, it is possible you are just not playing enough games. I always hit Rank 5, but I forget how long it takes until I look back at my deck tracker and see for myself. While your are playing in chunks of 10 or 20 games a day it can be depressing to find yourself 1 rank higher or not making progress at all. You have to look at progress in hearthstone over HUNDREDS of games.
I am probably just restating the past arguments, but I think it is reasonable to say that a new player to Hearthstone should not expect to pay nothing for the game and get to high ranks in a short amount of time. It should not really be taboo for people to pay money for card packs/adventures if we are enjoying the game and expect that the money payed wouldn't give us a leg up in the deck building process.
However, I do think, if someone insists on being free to play, they can devote time and energy into the game and be relatively successful in whatever time frame matches up with their desire to get better. Hell, a lot of pay to win players never get past rank 15 in the game because they just don't play that much, but enjoy having all the cards.
That said, I think somebody who completes daily quests, finishes all the basic achievements and devotes at least an hour or 2 a day or a chunk of time every couple of days a can make 1 good deck in a month and have 2-3 decent decks after a few months. There is no reason somebody who devotes time to the game cannot hit rank 5 after a few months of playtime. (we all know expert players can reach Legend in a month with a F2P account, but I think that is besides the point)
For that you need to:
- Focus on cheap decks (zoo, face shaman, aggro paladin).
- If you get luck with card packs you can try to put something more serious together. Patron warrior was the greatest cheap deck ever as far as I was concerned.
- dust any and every card you get that doesn't work towards your main classes
- read articles and guides on the decks you are playing
- watch streamers play with the decks you are playing
- play approximately 300-400 games in a month
I truly think the last bit is where most people fall short and even people, like me, who have played the game so much they have every golden hero portrait, start to find themselves doing worse than expected.
You need to play a lot of games, with a good win percentage, to make it to rank 5.
Legend can take twice as many games or more. If you have trouble hitting your desired rank, it is possible you are just not playing enough games. I always hit Rank 5, but I forget how long it takes until I look back at my deck tracker and see for myself. While your are playing in chunks of 10 or 20 games a day it can be depressing to find yourself 1 rank higher or not making progress at all. You have to look at progress in hearthstone over HUNDREDS of games.
I am probably just restating the past arguments, but I think it is reasonable to say that a new player to Hearthstone should not expect to pay nothing for the game and get to high ranks in a short amount of time. It should not really be taboo for people to pay money for card packs/adventures if we are enjoying the game and expect that the money payed wouldn't give us a leg up in the deck building process.
However, I do think, if someone insists on being free to play, they can devote time and energy into the game and be relatively successful in whatever time frame matches up with their desire to get better. Hell, a lot of pay to win players never get past rank 15 in the game because they just don't play that much, but enjoy having all the cards.
You are probably seeing it most in NZoth Paladin, right? Kodo was always a popular tech choice in Control Paladin because of Humility and Aldor.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
best spot removal.
Just played against a Cthun priest that either didn't draw Cthun or didn't play it in his deck. It was at 36 because I lacked the removal early on, I managed to minus heal myself for 8 with the Auchenai my sylvanas stole and still healed up and kept enough minions on board to survive a potential Cthun battlecry.
thank you for the tips manhack, I appreciate them. While I don't plan to get legend anywhere in the future, I would like to know more tips to... git gud.
also, I guess I should ask, how is the matchmaking in HS? do we get paired with a player with a similar deck "value" or it is just something random?
also, I guess I should ask, how is the matchmaking in HS? do we get paired with a player with a similar deck "value" or it is just something random?
There is no concept of "value" in the matchmaking. It will try to match you with players of similar skill and similar ranking (if playing ranked). That is it according to the devs.
may be that's my question, how is the skill measure in HS? by the cards in the deck? win/lose ratio? I might be reaching, but I always wondered if playing decks with lots of legendaries makes me match with other people with potentially lots of similar level cards.
Fastest time to pair a match (whoever else is searching and is at similar rank). Your card collection does not affect matchmaking.
As for the game itself, skill is measured by a person who can navigate out of tough board states.
Also, someone who recognizes when to reasonably hope no answers from opponent because of previous cards played is skilled.
That's why you see people talk aloud when playing this game because they're crossing off a checklist of things what cards they can/cannot play.
As for the game itself, skill is measured by a person who can navigate out of tough board states.
Also, someone who recognizes when to reasonably hope no answers from opponent because of previous cards played is skilled.
That's why you see people talk aloud when playing this game because they're crossing off a checklist of things what cards they can/cannot play.
It doesn't but everyone has a unique MMR behind the scenes. It's why as a new player when you go to casual you will be going up against other new players though on Ranked you will be paired up against players closer to your rank (so rank 15 paired with other 15s or close to it).
Has nothing to do with deck or collection quality.