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[Sheroking]

Just look at the hearthpwn top decks. Most of them don't use the owl.

You're misunderstanding something important. Owl is a tech card, it exists to beat problematic card text in certain match-ups. Ladder decks don't tech against taunts because taunts suck. Taunts suck because silence. Why would you play something that is so easily hard countered? Why would you play the hard counter to something nobody runs?

BGH is played as a one-of in a handful of decks specifically as an answer to Doctor Boom. If there were a bunch of 7 attack cards that were a big problem, people would run 2 to hard counter them. The design of BGH enables tempo swings on big minions, making big minions bad.

That's how good cards become unplayable.

 

[Schnauzer]

You're misunderstanding something important. Owl is a tech card, it exists to beat problematic card text in certain match-ups. Ladder decks don't tech against taunts because taunts suck. Taunts suck because silence. Why would you play something that is so easily hard countered? Why would you play the hard counter to something nobody runs?

BGH is played as a one-of in a handful of decks specifically as an answer to Doctor Boom. If there were a bunch of 7 attack cards that were a big problem, people would run 2 to hard counter them. The design of BGH enables tempo swings on big minions, making big minions bad.

That's how good cards become unplayable.

I'm not missing the point. I have other tech cards that I prefer that I find better like Entomb, Keeper of Uldaman, Black Knight, or Shadow Word Death. For the decks I play. There are better options.

Then again I have nearly all the options. If I didn't I might use the owl more.

 

[Dahbomb]

Pretty much every aggro deck runs Owl or an effecient silence effect.

Aggro Shaman runs Earth Shock or they can run Owl.
Every Hunter deck runs Owl.
Warlock decks run Owl.
Aggro Warrior runs Owl (they have to run two to get around taunts for their face weapons)
Aggro Paladin runs Owl.
Druids run Keeper of the Groves as their silence.


Other classes have good enough silence alternatives. Priest has 0 mana silence but they have steal effects that trump silence. Mage has transform cards. Rogue has sap which gives great tempo.


Owl just like BGH is sensitive to meta. Right now BGH is not used as high as it once was when Handlock was more common and game was slower paced. Owl was also used more in a Handlock meta due to it screwing up Drakes and getting through taunted giants. These days there aren't that great silence targets. Sylvanas use is lowered, Tirion comes out late and people don't like to waste silence on Shredders and broken 2 drops. The most silenced minion is Belcher and if that card didn't exist a lot of decks wouldn't run Owl because most taunts aren't even that good.

Owl just has side effect of shutting down buff strategies too.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

The Taunt removal is the most powerful part of the Owl. Making it just do that is absolutely the wrong approach. For a neutral card it's just too cheap to have such a versatile effect. At most it should just silence stat buffs or something.

I dunno man. I could live with it just silencing taunts. It's when I've built up a big minion and i've taken all other removal options of the opponent into consideration but I get fucked by that stupid bird is when I get the most upset. Or when a Flamewaker gets silenced, or Antonidas, Water Elemental, Sylvanas, etc. It's just fucking bullshit.

 

[Emerson]

I dunno man. I could live with it just silencing taunts. It's when I've built up a big minion and i've taken all other removal options of the opponent into consideration but I get fucked by that stupid bird is when I get the most upset. Or when a Flamewaker gets silenced, or Antonidas, Water Elemental, Sylvanas, etc. It's just fucking bullshit.

The problem is somewhat inherent to Hearthstone's design. It's fairly unique among card games in that you can directly attack the enemy's HP, completely ignoring their creatures. This problem has manifested throughout the game's lifespan as a disproportionate strength for aggro decks.

Taunts should be stronger than they are, and I stand by that saying that making taunts non silenceable would benefit the game significantly overall. A Taunt should be able to stop or at least delay a face rush. Currently it's entirely too easy to drop a 2 mana neutral minion and continue attacking face.

 

[Apathy]

Soggoth would be pretty disgusting if Y'Shaaraj pulled him out.

Edit: He'll also just win you the game against Priest. Like how is Control Priest going to deal with him? Priest can't deal 9 damage from minions. Priest doesn't run silence. Entomb, Death, and Mind Control get fucked. He's as good against Priest as Anub'arak is against Control Warrior.

Edit2: Sylvanas. That's it.

Even if they ran silence the spell it wouldn't work. It's a fuck priest card, as if they weren't bad enough already. If the silence off owl or spellbreaker is taken out, that's kinda it for priests.

 

[Schnauzer]

Even if they rand silence the spell it wouldn't work. It's a fuck priest card, as if they weren't bad enough already. If the silence off owl or spellbreaker is take out, that's kinda it for priests.

I can safely say I never lost to an owl silence playing a priest. It might have prolonged the game.... It is not an F priest card. I play Dragon Priest, Shadow Reno Priest, and Fatigue Priest.

*shrug*

 

[Drkirby]

Just GvG and Naxxramas.

Plus the 4 reward and promotional cards.

 

[Apathy]

I can safely say I never lost to an owl silence playing a priest. It might have prolonged the game.... It is not an F priest card. I play Dragon Priest, Shadow Reno Priest, and Fatigue Priest.

*shrug*

I'm not saying owl is a F you card to priest, this new legendary is. Taking out a 9 health taunt that can't have spells used on it is a huge problem.

 

[The Adder]

So any ideas on how they will nerf Owl?

"Silence a minion until your next turn"

 

[Schnauzer]

I'm not saying owl is a F you card to priest, this new legendary is. Taking out a 9 health taunt that can't have spells used on it is a huge problem.

Yeah the new card is ok. There are plenty of ways around it though like Black Knight, SWD your own Sylvanas. Honestly I don't think priest is going to be in a good place. Losing key tech cards like Voljin is going to be brutal.

Then again, I don't see the new legendary getting much play outside of Druid.

 

[jgminto]

Yeah the new card is ok. There are plenty of ways around it though like Black Knight, SWD your own Sylvanas. Honestly I don't think priest is going to be in a good place. Losing key tech cards like Voljin is going to be brutal.

Voljin is pretty low on the loss list for Priest when they're also losing Velen's Chosen, Lightbomb, Deathlord and Zombie Chow.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

For all intents and purposes, it basically cleared my board and killed me from 20 health.

I'm really not sure what you think is a bigger tempo swing?

This is hyperbole. Owl didn't clear your board. Owl's impact was removal of taunt and deathrattle off a very powerful board control card. You're attributing everything to owl, ignoring the pre-existing highmane and the just played loatheb - both of which had a bigger impact.

Owl, itself, reduced the board strength of a single minion and allowed him to race you to death. That reduction in terms of tempo was about 1.5 mana and he played a 2/1 which is about 1 mana worth of strength. It's simply not a big tempo push itself.

Here is a stronger tempo push, from a single card. Black knight turns your belcher from a 5 mana into a 1 mana minion. It not only kills the front of the belcher, but it also plays a 4 mana minion. That's like an 8 mana swing, easily double or nearly triple the impact of owl in that scenario.

TBK has that big of an impact because the card in general just is not versatile. Reducing silence's range of impact, to say taunts (although I don't like this suggestion) is a way to reduce it's versatility. The problem with the owl is that it's impact is strong and wide, not narrow.

Aggro decks deserve tools to counter anti-aggro just as much as control deserves tools to counter aggro. As a heavy control player myself, I still agree with that sentiment. I also really want to point out that aggro hunter doesn't run highmane. You're playing a midrange hunter, or a hybrid.

Although, people lose to aggro all the time because Ironbeak makes Taunts useless against Aggro. You know, the one thing Taunts exist to counter.

Owl doesn't make taunts useless against aggro. Many aggro decks only run a single silence. And I ran way more than a single target they need or want to silence. And even when they don't have the silence, they can still win.

Ironbeak Owl is one of, if not THE, most requested nerf after Druid combo and has been since Hearthstone left beta.

UTH
Buzzard
dr. boom
undertaker pre-nerf
miracle rogue
leeroy jenkins
handlock
face hunter
zoolock

I mean, the list goes on and on. All these requested nerfing more than owl.

 

[Schnauzer]

Voljin is pretty low on the loss list for Priest when they're also losing Velen's Chosen, Lightbomb, Deathlord and Zombie Chow.

I disagree with my decks. I don't use Velen as I found it to weak high in the ladder to silence and removal, and I don't play gimmick buff decks. I use at max one Lightbomb, I find I lose more when I had two. I don't use Lightbomb in every deck. I use Deathlord only in Reno Shadow Priest, and I fear Zombie Chow more than I benefit from him. Especially when using dragon priest.

For my decks Voljins is an important piece. It's only a tech card in Dragon Priest. Light bomb will be missed, but Vol'jin has single handedly won me more games than any other card. I have actually screwed myself with light bomb before. Friends don't let friends use light bomb when under the "influence". LOL

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I disagree with my decks. I don't use Velen as I found it to weak high in the ladder to silence and removal, and I don't play gimmick buff decks. I use at max one Lightbomb, I find I lose more when I had two. I don't use Lightbomb in every deck. I use Deathlord only in Reno Shadow Priest, and I fear Zombie Chow more than I benefit from him. Especially when using dragon priest.

For my decks Voljins is an important piece. It's only a tech card in Dragon Priest. Light bomb will be missed, but Vol'jin has single handedly won me more games than any other card. I have actually screwed myself with light bomb before. Friends don't let friends use light bomb when under the "influence". LOL

I was so fucking hype the first time I got to use light bomb since I had gotten wrecked by it so many times before.

Wiped out his 2 giant taunts....along with my entire side. Had no idea it would do that since I had never actually read the text.

 

[ViviOggi]

How do you ever hire reckful as a caster.......... we all got scamazed

 

[TheSadRanger]

At least crackle will be gone in standard. I get so tired of shamans billion+ removal spells, shit is ridiculous.

 

[Officerrob]

How do you ever hire reckful as a caster.......... we all got scamazed

Because he's fantastic. Reckful is the only good thing about this event so far

 

[BananasWithGuns]

This brawl has been a godsend. Taken my Rogue from level 49 to 55. Just might get those golden Sen'jins before the new expansion hits.

 

[Apathy]

This brawl has been a godsend. Taken my Rogue from level 49 to 55. Just might get those golden Sen'jins before the new expansion hits.

This is by far the worst brawl ever conceived. Lets ignore the fact that you can get spells like call pet and mindgames and go straight to the fact that everything you need to win never shows up but your opponent has a fucking horseshoe up his ass for luck.

 

[Schnauzer]

So out of curiosity, what card are you guys going to miss most in standard?

For me it's Mal'Ganis. I'm going to really miss Reno/demon lock. I have so much fun with the deck, and Mal'Ganis is the ultimate bad manners card.

 

[Apathy]

So out of curiosity, what card are you guys going to miss most in standard?

For me it's Mal'Ganis. I'm going to really miss Reno/demon lock. I have so much fun with the deck, and Mal'Ganis is the ultimate bad manners card.

Belcher. Even with the death rattle and playing against it it's fair. and at least it was a partial tool vs aggro (as long as they didn't get their owl in time)

Like i would vote belcher to become part of the standard set if it came down to it.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

So out of curiosity, what card are you guys going to miss most in standard?

For me it's Mal'Ganis. I'm going to really miss Reno/demon lock. I have so much fun with the deck, and Mal'Ganis is the ultimate bad manners card.

Probably loatheb, but not much since I occasionally have to sap it for 7 mana.

 

[ViviOggi]

So out of curiosity, what card are you guys going to miss most in standard?

For me it's Mal'Ganis. I'm going to really miss Reno/demon lock. I have so much fun with the deck, and Mal'Ganis is the ultimate bad manners card.

Death's Bite
Healbot
Darkbomb
Belcher
Gallywix

 

[jgminto]

Definitely Loatheb, playing him at a crucial moment and swinging the game is one of the coolest parts of Hearthstone and I feel like he's the best example of that. I'd add him to Standard in a heartbeat.

 

[Ketch]

i will miss wild pyromancer and zombie chow the most.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Neptulon, I'll miss ya buddy.

 

[Apathy]

i will miss wild pyromancer and zombie chow the most.

pyromancer is not going anywhere, blizzard would never hurt paladins bullshit aoe combo

 

[BlackBuzzard]

How do you ever hire reckful as a caster.......... we all got scamazed

Or Mira why not hire Legendary Lea next time to make this disaster complete.

Entire thing seems 1 giant disaster.

 

[Apathy]

Fuck this stupid brawl. have total control on a board, oh why wouldn't my opponent get a deathwing. why is this even a thing?

 

[QFNS]

Death's Bite
Healbot
LIGHTBOMB
Belcher
Gallywix

There you go. Fixed that for you. You somehow confused a good warlock card that everyone is happy to see go, with an amazing priest one. Dark/Light pretty easy to confuse, I understand. =p

 

[Drkirby]

I have seen some compelling arguments on this new legendary being solid. A number of classes and archetypes have a really hard time dealing with him. I think he is going to get a good amount of play.

 

[Sigismundo]

I'm probably gonna play Wild instead of Standard. I guess I could play both but I always liked the idea of having my old cards still usable.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

So out of curiosity, what card are you guys going to miss most in standard?

For me it's Mal'Ganis. I'm going to really miss Reno/demon lock. I have so much fun with the deck, and Mal'Ganis is the ultimate bad manners card.

Unstable Portal for sure. Love that damn card so much.

I'm probably gonna play Wild instead of Standard. I guess I could play both but I always liked the idea of having my old cards still usable.

I'm for sure still gonna play Wild. Too much potential for crazy fuckery.

 

[Ketch]

pyromancer is not going anywhere, blizzard would never hurt paladins bullshit aoe combo

oh nice. I guess my priest deck is staying mostly in tact then.

 

[ZealousD]

Gonna miss Loatheb too. I'll never forget the time that I was playing zoo and I actually beat a freeze mage by doing Brann into Loatheb. =(

 

[manhack]

Gonna miss Loatheb too. I'll never forget the time that I was playing zoo and I actually beat a freeze mage by doing Brann into Loatheb. =(

Freeze mage i the #1 reason I will miss Loatheb. If some sort of miracle rogue becomes a popular again it would be nice to have another card that punishes using spells.

 

[Apathy]

Freeze mage i the #1 reason I will miss Loatheb. If some sort of miracle rogue becomes a popular again it would be nice to have another card that punishes using spells.

100% should be part of standard. No other card does what it does

 

[Drkirby]

I'm hoping in a year or two blizzard changes what cards are the core set. I am really doubtful they will keep classic the same set forever.

 

[Apathy]

This bullshit brawl is 100% programmed to give out a deathwing to your opponent if you have a full board. No way it keeps happening to me. This is dumb as fuck

 

[TheSadRanger]

What do you guys think will replace Loatheb as the standard 5 drop neutral legendary?

I was thinking the best candidate atm would be Saraad possibly.

 

[Apathy]

What do you guys think will replace Loatheb as the standard 5 drop neutral legendary?

I was thinking the best candidate atm would be Saraad possibly.

Well loatheb was used for the effect, it's not like saraad is replacing that

 

[TheSadRanger]

Well loatheb was used for the effect, it's not like saraad is replacing that

Oh I know, the effects are completely different but people are going to replace him something and I could see Saraad being played more often possibly with Loatheb gone.

edit: I mean, there's probably only a few neutral legendary cards left to reveal anyways. We're already at eight, GvG had 11 and TGT had 10 using those as a barometer.

 

[Dahbomb]

My top 10 most missed cards from Naxx/GvG

Echo of Medivh
Loatheb
Gallywix
Death's Bite
Unstable Ghoul
Explosive Sheep
Malganis
Kezan Mystic
Dark Bomb
Dr Boom


The last one is going to come as a shock to everyone here. Anyone who has read my posts here knows that I have ranted on this card the most. I never referred to this card by its proper name because I said I would only call him Dr Boom when he's nerfed. Now he will never be nerfed, he is ever green in terms of strength. He's like the reverse Magma Rager... the community bands together to turn Magma Rager into a meme about how awful the card is. Similarly the community came together to talk about how strong this card is and he got the most nicknames out of any card in HS's existence. He's the villain that everyone loves to root for... so we will hate him, because he can take it. He's not our hero, he's an imbalanced card, an auto include, everyone's first craft target...

Rest in peace Dr Balanced aka Dr 7 aka Dr GG aka Dr Well Played aka Dr Boom.


Top 10 Least missed cards:

Shredder
Unstable Portal
Implosion
Crackle
Mad Scientist
Minibot/Muster for Battle
Belcher
Haunted Creeper
Void Caller
Deathlord


The last card again is a shocker. I loved this card initially and still love various aspects of this card but over time I have grown to dislike it and I think the game is better off with the card leaving. This card not only punished aggro decks but also slow control decks. Whenever a game went to fatigue, it was a matter of who played Deathlords and who didn't to the point where Priests and Warriors both started carrying Deathlords with the dual purpose of being anti aggro and winning the fatigue war. If the game slows down then Deathlord becomes a bigger issue. Plus the card has a RNG element to it and I always dislike that.

 

[Apathy]

So I did 3 wins with each class for the brawl between yesterday and today, just to see what kind of bullshit I could get.

Had the easiest time with Rogue and Mage (as in did it in 3 with the rogue did it in 4 with mage), the hardest with Shaman (took 11 games).

Saw some ridiculous bullshit. My opponents got Deathwing 3 times (twice while I was doing the shaman run, the hell kind of probability is that?!), Onyxia 1 time and Chromaggus 1 time. The other big dragons were not played against me. I got 2 Alex's (could only play one) , 1 Nef and 1 Deathwing (I couldn't play it, my opponent quit before I could).

Probably the most rage inducing, my gelbin got peacekeeper'd by a priest, then a few turns later he uses mass dispel on my board to get rid of some buff/taunts/deathrattles (i forget what i had), only to instantly drop a second peacekeeper on gelbin.

Most fun (and probably most bullshit thing) I did; Portal into 0 drop, portal into VanCleef, portal in second VanCleef, play a +10 VanCleef and a +12 VanCleef

All in all, I hate portals.

 

[greepoman]

Amaz's hearthstone jeopardy is pretty good. Quite a few difficult ones.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Rip admirable.

 

[Apathy]

Rip admirable.

He went out with some guts though.

 

[TheSadRanger]

My top 10 most missed cards from Naxx/GvG

Echo of Medivh
Loatheb
Gallywix
Death's Bite
Unstable Ghoul
Explosive Sheep
Malganis
Kezan Mystic
Dark Bomb
Dr Boom




Top 10 Least missed cards:

Shredder
Unstable Portal
Implosion
Crackle
Mad Scientist
Minibot/Muster for Battle
Belcher
Haunted Creeper
Void Caller
Deathlord

New meta for lock in standard is going to be renounce darkness with dark bomb and implosion gone. I actually never had that big of an issue with implosion.

Crackle wasn't that bad until shamans got a 3/4 as a two drop and could unlock their own crystals.

 

[Drkirby]

The one thing this expansion is some stupid fun RNG decks. Can't wait to play my Renounce Darkness Yogg warlock deck.