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[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'm thinking he might because Mirror Entity procs when you kill a Mad Scientist with a Battlecry effect. Meaning the card isn't actually "played" until after its Battlecry resolves.

Yup that exact scenario got me wondering the same thing.

Also Kezan Mystic takes your secrets before she's actually played, right? I've never seen her snatch a secret that activates when a minion is played, so I don't know.

It's a common misunderstanding that minions enter the field after battlecry resolves. It's actually the opposite. Minions hit the field first, then battlecries resolve.

The reason mirror entity procs when fire elemental kills it is because deathrattles resolve before secrets are considered. So mad scientist dies, deathrattle resolves and pulls a secret in, and then the game checks for secrets activating.

A classic example of battlecries going off after minions hitting the field is the leeroy jenkins + knife juggler interaction. If your opponent has a knife juggler out, playing jenkins which summons the 2 1/1 dragonlings causes knife juggler to throw 2 knives. These 2 knives can hit leeroy because leeroy is on the field before the dragonlings are summoned.

Hearthstone science video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln0BisR_SfY

 

[gutshot]

It's a common misunderstanding that minions enter the field after battlecry resolves. It's actually the opposite. Minions hit the field first, then battlecries resolve.

The reason mirror entity procs when fire elemental kills it is because deathrattles resolve before secrets are considered. So mad scientist dies, deathrattle resolves and pulls a secret in, and then the game checks for secrets activating.

A classic example of battlecries going off after minions hitting the field is the leeroy jenkins + knife juggler interaction. If your opponent has a knife juggler out, playing jenkins which summons the 2 1/1 dragonlings causes knife juggler to throw 2 knives. These 2 knives can hit leeroy because leeroy is on the field before the dragonlings are summoned.

Hearthstone science video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln0BisR_SfY

Yeah, I understand that, but the keyword here is "played". It's not whether the minion is on the battlefield or not. But whether the minion is considered "played" before the Battlecry effect goes off or after. It seems like it is after, given the way Mirror Entity interacts with Battlecries.

 

[sibarraz]

That mage card is imo a new dr 6

 

[Acerac]

That mage card is imo a new dr 6

Yeah every class is going to run it.

 

[Dahbomb]

That mage card is imo a new dr 6

Not a neutral card so no.

Its comparison is Highmane. Is it better than Highmane? It's pretty close IMO.

 

[ZealousD]

I wonder if Questing would instantly become a 3/3?

It would not. QA triggers in the on play phase which is before the battlecry.

 

[sibarraz]

Yeah every class is going to run it.

MC is paladin exclusive and a lot of people called it dr 6, that's the point

 

[Owzers]

it's weird to think they still have about 60 cards to reveal, it's been such a long time of waiting it just feels like they are all announced already.

 

[Sheroking]

Not a neutral card so no.

?

Current Dr. Six is not a neutral card.

 

[ZealousD]

RE: Kezan. All battlecry effects resolve before the minion is ever played on the field.

False. Minions enter the field in the on play phase before the battlecry.

 

[gutshot]

False. Minions enter the field in the on play phase before the battlecry.

So Mirror Entity must be coded differently? Because otherwise Kezan would get copied, not steal the secret. And it wouldn't copy a Fire Elemental that killed a Mad Scientist.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Yeah, I understand that, but the keyword here is "played". It's not whether the minion is on the battlefield or not. But whether the minion is considered "played" before the Battlecry effect goes off or after. It seems like it is after, given the way Mirror Entity interacts with Battlecries.

It's considered played before the battlecry goes off.

It's explained in the video. Secrets resolve last, so battlecries and deathrattles caused by those battlecries go off first. So a battlecry that kills mad scientist causes deathrattle to summons a secret, then the secret triggers.

I'm not sure about questing adventurer to be quite honest. If you kill a pilotted shredder on your side with your fire elemental, and that shredder summons a knife juggler, would it throw a knife right away? I'm not certain.

So Mirror Entity must be coded differently? Because otherwise Kezan would get copied, not steal the secret. And it wouldn't copy a Fire Elemental that killed a Mad Scientist.

Watch the video. It explains the order of events. In short, secrets trigger after battlecries. If you steal the secret, then it never has a chance to trigger.

 

[ZealousD]

So Mirror Entity must be coded differently? Because otherwise Kezan would get copied, not steal the secret. And it wouldn't copy a Fire Elemental that killed a Mad Scientist.

Secrets like Mirror Entity trigger in the After Play phase that is after battlecries.

 

[Acerac]

MC is paladin exclusive and a lot of people called it dr 6, that's the point

I'm saying it's a stupid term that doesn't really fit. It's like how the Hearthstone community is apt call rush, control, and midrange decks cancer.

 

[Sheroking]

False. Minions enter the field in the on play phase before the battlecry.

http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Advanced_rulebook

If you play a battlecry minion that spawns another minion, the battlecry minion ALWAYS spawns first. Kezan is played AFTER she steals a secret. Deathwing wipes the board AFTER he is played. If you play a Doctor Boom with one charge of Sword of Justice, the left most Boom bot gets the buff because Boom's battlecry resolved before Boom himself was played.

EDIT: I found a video that claimed you were right and supported it. I don't know what to believe, actually.

 

[Dahbomb]

Dr 6 is either Sylvanas or Emperor. For raw stats it's Sky Golem.

If we include class cards then both MC and Highmane are better than this card.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

No, you're wrong. The battlecry is the first phase almost 100% of the time with only a small handful of exceptions involving auras.

http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Advanced_rulebook

If you play a battlecry minion that spawns another minion, the battlecry minion ALWAYS spawns first. Kezan is played AFTER she steals a secret. Deathwing wipes the board AFTER he is played. If you play a Doctor Boom with one charge of Sword of Justice, the left most Boom bot gets the buff because Boom's battlecry resolved before Boom himself was played.

Please watch this video to see why you're wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln0BisR_SfY

 

[gutshot]

OK, so it is the wording that is inconsistent then (no shocker there). Mirror Entity should really say "after" a minion is played, not "when" which implies it works similarly to Questing, which also uses "when".

 

[Acerac]

OK, so it is the wording that is inconsistent then (no shocker there). Mirror Entity should really say "after" a minion is played, not "when" which implies it works similarly to Questing, which also uses "when".

That's the wonderful thing about Magic, I've been asked so many rules questions where my answer is "read the cards very slowly". Hearthstone has all sorts of odd interactions that you need in depth knowledge of to understand.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

OK, so it is the wording that is inconsistent then (no shocker there). Mirror Entity should really say "after" a minion is played, not "when" which implies it works similarly to Questing, which also uses "when".

Pretty much. We cannot lump the "whenever" cards in the same pool as "after". And mirror entity should say "after".

 

[Apathy]

Did blizzard say anything regarding the ui getting an overhaul. The additional deck slots and how they are displayed is really bad, specially the fact the "new deck" button is at the bottom sucks. Really with when building decks the ui could display weapons/minions/spells breakdown too.

 

[bjaelke]

That's the wonderful thing about Magic, I've been asked so many rules questions where my answer is "read the cards very slowly". Hearthstone has all sorts of odd interactions that you need in depth knowledge of to understand.

But none of that has to do with reading the actual card. You either have to look up in the advanced rulebook or go through Bbrode's Twitter replies to know the exact interaction.

 

[ZealousD]

If you play a battlecry minion that spawns another minion, the battlecry minion ALWAYS spawns first.

Battlecry minion is summoned after played minion.

But the summoned minion does have its after summon phase resolved before the played minion does.

 

[sibarraz]

Dr 6 is either Sylvanas or Emperor. For raw stats it's Sky Golem.

If we include class cards then both MC and Highmane are better than this card.

Sylvanas at times isn't even played at turn 6, there is no reason to not play this card on turn 6.

And I think that is better than savannah just for the battlecry effect. if it was a deathrattle savannah will be way better

 

[Pooya]

I thought the meta was going to slow down, lol.

Probably some other classes have one of these high tempo balanced cards too, it's just shifting away from paladin so far. Shaman and mage have a very good and strong class minions to play for almost every mana cost now.

 

[Nirolak]

Did blizzard say anything regarding the ui getting an overhaul. The additional deck slots and how they are displayed is really bad, Greek the fact the "new deck" button is at the bottom sucks. Really with when building decks the ui could display weapons/minions/spells breakdown too.

The current new deck UI took them over a year of development so I'm guessing it's not changing.

 

[bjaelke]

https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/711950869323862016

Doesn't sound like a complete overhaul.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/711950869323862016

Doesn't sound like a complete overhaul.

Sounds good enough to me

I just want a scrollable history.

 

[Dahbomb]

Sylvanas at times isn't even played at turn 6, there is no reason to not play this card on turn 6.

And I think that is better than savannah just for the battlecry effect. if it was a deathrattle savannah will be way better

Highmane also comes with 3 bodies that have the beast tag on it. Stat for stat Highmane is on average better but of course Battlecry generally tends to be better than Deathrattle. I think it's close between the two.

Doesn't matter because MC schools both of them.

 

[ZealousD]

Please watch this video to see why you're wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln0BisR_SfY

This video is also done by Patashu, who is a major contributor to the advanced rulebook.

 

[Apathy]

That made me laugh.

 

[ZealousD]

That made me laugh.

Not quite Sky Golem into Shredder into Minibot.

 

[Pooya]

summoning injured blademaster is just game winning. casino mage is going to be around forever.

 

[Apathy]

Not quite Sky Golem into Shredder into Minibot.

No but it's the best were can do in standard.

 

[ZealousD]

No but it's the best were can do in standard.

Actually Injured Kvaldir would be better than Posessed Villager.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

No but it's the best were can do in standard.

master of evolution on a 9 mana minion, turns into 12/12 deathwing, dies and summons 7 dragons.

 

[Dahbomb]

That made me laugh.

At least this is class only...

At least this is class only...


Just have to keep telling myself that.

 

[ViviOggi]

Few things feel better than killing an 8 win Paladin with an 18 damage Frothing.

This is one of them.

Legit felt sorry for my Rogue brother/sister though, instantly conceded too.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

At least this is class only...

At least this is class only...


Just have to keep telling myself that.

Just watch them slip in like 5 broken neutrals when they dump the remaining cards all at once.

 

[Pooya]

trump is about to reveal.

 

[jgminto]

That Mage card is so bizarre, a big ol stat pile isn't really mage's MO. No spell synergy, no freeze effects, why did they go with Mage?

 

[Nirolak]

Reveal in ~4 minutes: https://www.twitch.tv/trumpsc

 

[Professor Lich]

Watching Trump slowly change a YouTube window for the reveal and Twitch is going insane. This is kind of amazing.

 

[Owzers]

O______________O

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Trump you trolly piece of shit rofl

 

[jgminto]

What the fuck, Mage!

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Stupid advertisement. Saw a card with draw 2 and heard him saw "that's not the card" lol

5 mana
5/4
cast random 5 mana spell (or less) and the target is random

casino mage is real? lol seems bad

edit: not 5 hp, 4 hp

 

[Professor Lich]

Wrong one.

 

[Tacitus_]

Random spells (<=5), lel

 

[Owzers]

Trump...what are you doing.