Support NeoGAF

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Back to rank 5 with NZoth Pally Tier 4 my ass

Spoiler

Tier 3 if you don't run into shaman like I did

How is that an argument? It's an OK rate because class legendaries have always been bad?

For the most part yes, it's an improvement.

Good riddance to Elise and Reno. Elise turns control mirrors into RNG fiestas, and Reno just isn't good.
Sad to see Justicar go, though. Hopefully we'll get another strong Control legendary to replace her.

good riddance to Justicar, fatigue warrior enabling *insert swearword*.

 

[Levi]

I'm not ready to say goodbye to Reno, Elise, or Justicar...

Somebody hold me....

Good riddance to Elise and Reno. Elise turns control mirrors into RNG fiestas, and Reno just isn't good.

Sad to see Justicar go, though. Hopefully we'll get another strong Control legendary to replace her.

 

[Portugeezer]

Good riddance to Elise and Reno. Elise turns control mirrors into RNG fiestas, and Reno just isn't good.

Sad to see Justicar go, though. Hopefully we'll get another strong Control legendary to replace her.

Fuck Justicar. Ridiculous value in Warrior, almost ends the game on the spot against non-control classes.

 

[bjaelke]

Yeah Justicar and Control Warrior can do one.

 

[IceMarker]

I think Brann is the only LoE Legendary everyone will miss, such a fun and balanced card!

Spoiler

RIP Arch-Thief Rafaam

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

My current list.

+Tirion
+NZoth

Barnes has been such a disappointment in this deck before. Too many whiffs and too much tempo loss if he does whiff.
The deck preys on Freeze Mage. Aldor Peacekeeper + Forbidden Healing completely negates Alexstrasza.

 

[Xanathus]

I imagine they'll print more Reno-type cards where it has an effect if your remaining deck is comprised of singletons. Something interesting would be a card that swaps your health with your opponent's.

My current list.

Barnes has been such a disappointment in this deck before. Too many whiffs and too much tempo loss if he does whiff.
The deck preys on Freeze Mage. Aldor Peacekeeper + Forbidden Healing completely negates Alexstrasza.

Nzoth deck without Nzoth new meta.

 

[Levi]

good riddance to Justicar, fatigue warrior enabling *insert swearword*.

Justicar is also good in Control Priest, Control Paladin and even Control Shaman is running her.

Fuck Justicar. Ridiculous value in Warrior, almost ends the game on the spot against non-control classes.

Lots of games you can't even play Justicar on curve because you'll just die. It's a slow card and definitely not an autowin--although it is one of those cards that if you do draw it and can safely play it on curve your chances of winning do go way up.

Yeah Justicar and Control Warrior can do one.

Can do what? Be the only really good control deck left in the game?

 

[IceMarker]

Does anyone have any idea whatsoever as to what they think the next expansion's theme will be? My guess is maybe Northrend/Icecrown Citadel(?), but we already got The Grand Tournament which was technically in that region...

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Justicar is also good in Control Priest, Control Paladin and even Control Shaman is running her.

Fuck priest and Justicar was only ever in Paladin for the control mirror. That's hardly a matchup to take into account right now.

Nzoth deck without Nzoth new meta.

Cut off at the bottom because of the golden equality gaddamn it Hearthstone why you so suck.

 

[QFNS]

Yeah Justicar and Control Warrior can do one.

I am super super super sad to see Elise and Reno go, but Justicar can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

Elise and Reno present cool options and are some of the most interestingly designed cards ever made. The deck restriction that Reno has and the transformation that Elise can cause are things that uniquely works because Hearthstone is a digital game. While it might be possible to attempt something like Reno in a physical game, the verification would be almost impossible and Elise is just not possible. The cards are crazy and FUN. Their effects are strong and also controllable. They may seem unfair to an opponent, but a well played control deck often feels unfair anyhow. Reno especially seems to get a lot of hate for being unfair (I know multiple people IRL who say this and quite a few on this forum), but the card is a consistency trade off which you can't see in your 1 ladder match you lost to someone who played Reno. What you didn't see is the 5 other matches that Reno player lost because they didn't put the right mix of things into their Reno deck or simply didn't draw him in time. Elise is similar against control matchups, but since those are less common no one is complaining about her. And with the wide swathe of Legendaries out there it is entirely possible to play the Monkey and get hosed with a bunch of low power legendaries and be unable to close out the control match before you are killed by fatigue.

Justicar is simply a case of the rich getting richer. Classes with the best hero powers simply get better and classes with trash ones (Shaman mostly) get what their hero power should have been. Justicar isn't problematic in a sense that the card is OP, but just unfair in that too few classes benefit heavily from her. The card is biased toward Warrior/Priest styles of control and very useless for most other styles. Why not just make the card a Warrior card from the get go and make something else for the other classes.

 

[Karsticles]

I get wanting to have cards be worth a damn but I do find needing to craft legendaries a pain

I totally understand this.

I think it's a pretty good rate if you look at HS. What wild class legendaries are played that aren't classic?

I'm not following your argument.

Fuck Justicar. Ridiculous value in Warrior, almost ends the game on the spot against non-control classes.

I remember when this thread united against me in an attempt to claim that Justicar doesn't even make a difference in the Control Warrior match because it's a tempo loss. lol

 

[Dahbomb]

Reno Jackson is godlike. I will not stand for this slander.

GvG and TGT class Legendaries were pretty mediocre overall. Old Gods class Legendaries were an improvement.

Xaril, Fandral, Malkorok, Hallazeal, Lightlord are all usable to staple cards. I personally think Huhuran is a good card too and has potential to see more play in the future. Chogall may have potential too in the future with expensive Warlock spells printed. Anomalus is a terrible card and Herald may have a future if they completely redesign Priest to be more aggressive and board centric but aside from that it also sucks.

Compare it to TGT:

Acidmaw/Dreadscale : I think Dreadscale is awesome but should've been a neutral. Acidmaw sucks, it's like a super expensive Equality clear peace.

Mistcaller: Sucks

Rhonin: Too slow even though it's not actually awful.

Varian: Kinda usable in Tempo based Warrior decks.

Anuburak: Usable in Control Rogue if that was a thing, otherwise unplayable.

Wilfred: Sucks.

Confessor Paeltress: Slow and RNG based, Ysera is usually a lot better.

Eadric: Alright card but not too great. You would just rather clear the board than neuter it.

Aviana: Too slow.


GvG was even worse, only Voljin and Malganis were usable. Gallywix is kinda usable in the Thief Rogue though. Leviathan, Gazrilla, Bolvar, Iron Juggernaut and Malorne all sucked.


So yeah Blizzard has to try a lot harder on the class Legendaries. They still don't even come close to touching the classic class Legendaries.


Looking back at it, Old Gods was easily the best expansion that Blizzard put out of the 3. GvG was the start of the RNG clown fiesta with absurd power creep cards and like half of the cards were mech based (so if your class couldn't play a Mech deck GvG sucked for you). TGT was the opposite, they introduced a cool mechanic but just about everything in TGT was very weak aside from a couple of cards like Tuskar and Mysterious Challenger that somehow did not get the same treatment. It was a good expansion for Shamans but a mediocre one for everyone else. Old Gods felt more balanced, less RNG and power creep than GVG but not as irrelevant as TGT plus a majority of the class Legendaries were at least good.

 

[QFNS]

I personally think Huhuran is a good card too and has potential to see more play in the future.

For your consideration: Wild Huhuran Hunter.

I haven't made the deck but am strongly considering it now. Free Shredder/Belcher/Highmane activiations so you can run CotW into massive burst the next turn. Seems legit. Hell run Feign Death too and go nuts. Could be ok.

 

[IceMarker]

I'm still salty Bolf Ramshield doesn't have Taunt on his text.

 

[Dahbomb]

For your consideration: Wild Huhuran Hunter.

I haven't made the deck but am strongly considering it now. Free Shredder/Belcher/Highmane activiations so you can run CotW into massive burst the next turn. Seems legit. Hell run Feign Death too and go nuts. Could be ok.

Yeah I have tried it, it's pretty sold. You want to run double Shredder and Infested Wolf for it. It's not game breaking or anything but it's just solid.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm still salty Bolf Ramshield doesn't have Taunt on his text.

It's so bad it's a glorified heal 9 that can die to removal

For your consideration: Wild Huhuran Hunter.

I haven't made the deck but am strongly considering it now. Free Shredder/Belcher/Highmane activiations so you can run CotW into massive burst the next turn. Seems legit. Hell run Feign Death too and go nuts. Could be ok.

Belcher would be a pretty bad target for Huhuran.

Looking back at it, Old Gods was easily the best expansion that Blizzard put out of the 3. GvG was the start of the RNG clown fiesta with absurd power creep cards and like half of the cards were mech based (so if your class couldn't play a Mech deck GvG sucked for you). TGT was the opposite, they introduced a cool mechanic but just about everything in TGT was very weak aside from a couple of cards like Tuskar and Mysterious Challenger that somehow did not get the same treatment. It was a good expansion for Shamans but a mediocre one for everyone else. Old Gods felt more balanced, less RNG and power creep than GVG but not as irrelevant as TGT plus a majority of the class Legendaries were at least good.

Well said. I never bought a single TGT booster nor did I do arena because it was better to craft the 3 cards I needed from the set that were OP.

 

[patchday]

Back to rank 5 with NZoth Pally Tier 4 my ass

Spoiler

Tier 3 if you don't run into shaman like I did

For the most part yes, it's an improvement.

good riddance to Justicar, fatigue warrior enabling *insert swearword*.

Yes sir I can't wait for those cards to go away plus Entomb. I love Control decks and the fucking matchmaker gives me a Priest to fight everytime. Entomb is such poor business sense in everyway. why bother crafting legendary if it can be stolen and used against you before it does anything?

Granted, I realize if I were a better player I would not have this issue on the ladder. Cause priests are much more rare in the better ranks above 15. I am probably gonna stick to easy tempo/rush decks to get 15 and then try more thoughtful decks

 

[Levi]

Reno Jackson is godlike. I will not stand for this slander.

Reno's a well designed card, and a good build-around. I'm just ready for it to leave. Even Justicar I'm okay with rotating, to be honest, as much as I like to play up my "no friends tank up control warrior" reputation.

Elise is a fun card that I really like playing, but it really harms Control Warrior mirrors.

 

[patchday]

Yeah even tho I run Reno in two decks I've always wanted him gone. I crafted 'beneath the grounds' and run it one deck to counter. but Reno is so seldom seen it's not really worth countering. And the decks tend to be so bad due to lack of synergy and consistency they can be detonated fast by good fast moving decks

(AS always just my take on it during my climbs)

 

[Dahbomb]

Reno Jackson is a card that can never really be broken in the Standard format though one day it might be insane in Wild. Eventually Wild will have enough redundant cards for a class that they can throw Reno Jackson in the deck and still function the same. Renolock in Wild is almost there though not being able to use two Belchers and Healbots still hurts.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Reno Jackson is a card that can never really be broken in the Standard format though one day it might be insane in Wild. Eventually Wild will have enough redundant cards for a class that they can throw Reno Jackson in the deck and still function the same. Renolock in Wild is almost there though not being able to use two Belchers and Healbots still hurts.

That gets balanced out by burn eventually getting so good they'll just burn you out from 30

 

[QFNS]

That gets balanced out by burn eventually getting so good they'll just burn you out from 30

Yeah I have a feeling that in the longest run (mulitple years out) assuming there is no change to the Standard/Wild format and that it proceeds are expected (big assumptions), then eventually Reno Mage and Reno Warlock seem like they would become really really insane decks in Wild. In fact most classes would have one Reno archetype that is insanely strong just due to card churn. You eventually print enough cards like Forgotten Torch or Firelands Portal or Darkbomb that those classes will end up being really strong and you'll have enough redundancy in effects if not card titles. Reno might be a bad thing for the very long term of Wild, but we are so so so far away from that reality that I don't think I care.

 

[Dahbomb]

Blizzard has moved away from pure burn cards and charge cards in recent expansions. Probably one of the better things they have done (well except for Firelands Portal but we don't talk about that card anymore... the soul still burns). Freeze Mage is the only deck that can do a ton of burn from hand, all other forms of OTK have generally been nerfed already.

They just can't print godlike cheap spell damage cards. Like there's no way they should ever print a 2 mana 0/1 that has 2 spell damage. Or print a 3 mana 0/1 with 3 spell damage.

It's funny that over time, Blizzard has had to scale back some of the keywords in HS that were iconic. Charge has been scaled back, Stealth has been scaled back and Spell damage I feel is something that Blizzard has been very reserved on and for good reason.


It really feels like an inevitability that Freeze Mage gets nerfed at some point.

 

[patchday]

My rant about priests just gave me another idea for my Control Shaman...

so tempted to also craft Harrison. could use him to counter gorehowl. sometimes I run ooze but harrison would fit better into one or two of my decks

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Blizzard has moved away from pure burn cards and charge cards in recent expansions. Probably one of the better things they have done (well except for Firelands Portal but we don't talk about that card anymore... the soul still burns). Freeze Mage is the only deck that can do a ton of burn from hand, all other forms of OTK have generally been nerfed already.

They just can't print godlike cheap spell damage cards. Like there's no way they should ever print a 2 mana 0/1 that has 2 spell damage. Or print a 3 mana 0/1 with 3 spell damage.

It's funny that over time, Blizzard has had to scale back some of the keywords in HS that were iconic. Charge has been scaled back, Stealth has been scaled back and Spell damage I feel is something that Blizzard has been very reserved on and for good reason.

It really feels like an inevitability that Freeze Mage gets nerfed at some point.

It's enough to get better card draw and/or more efficient ways to stall the game.
Malygos enables 3 classes to burn you from 30 if they managed to shape their hand. In wild you don't see these decks because the classes enabled lack the other tools to remain stable.
Evolved Kobold alone already enables Mage to burn you from 30.

Emperor will always be in wild.

 

[Dahbomb]

All of those require Emperor set up but I see the point. They might possibly add more cards like Emperor that may be fine in Standard but broken in Wild.

Wild has Loatheb to prevent this though.

 

[patchday]

yeah I am going to run more experiments with a Malygos (or a different type of slow +spell dmg shaman). I love Mage for their ability to burn too. by far my most wins

 

[thepotatoman]

There are way more Magic cards released per year, but that's a little misleading. Most of the common and uncommon cards are designed with limited play (aka Arena) in mind; the vast bulk of them will not be played in serious constructed. On the other hand, I think it shows that Magic takes limited play much more seriously than Hearthstone does.

My biggest issue with the Hearthstone rotation: the core + basic sets are too large in comparison to the size of the expansions.

As opposed to Hearthstone's 33% rate of playable cards, many split between 9 separate classes thus limiting their synergies further?

And among the ones that don't see play, half of them you don't even want to play in Arena or fun decks.

 

[Dahbomb]

Firebat's Fatigue series ft. Violet Illusionist and Coldlight Oracle combo has been pretty fun to watch.

 

[QFNS]

All of those require Emperor set up but I see the point. They might possibly add more cards like Emperor that may be fine in Standard but broken in Wild.

Wild has Loatheb to prevent this though.

Fuck I miss Loatheb in Standard. Such a cool card with so many play and counterplays inherent in it.

 

[Mulgrok]

Trying a spell damage shaman deck, but i need to remove flametongue totem and thing from below for draw cards. too often those sit in my hand when I need to cycle for small removal or burn.

 

[slightconfuse]

Reno decks are pretty fun to play. i suck at figuring out if my opponent is playing one tho.

won't if blizzard will get creative for the next adventure/ expansion.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Reno decks are pretty fun to play. i suck at figuring out if my opponent is playing one tho.

won't if blizzard will get creative for the next adventure/ expansion.

It's pretty easy. Warlock that doesn't play a minion turn 1 is a Renolock, Mage with roaring torch but no freeze spells is Reno Mage

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Fuck I miss Loatheb in Standard. Such a cool card with so many play and counterplays inherent in it.

I'm the opposite. I think loatheb is just one of those cards that is just too strong in a game with asynchronous turns. It just messes up interactivity too much and is too useful against too many deck types. I don't think it's broken, but I think if the issue is burn decks, they should be countered in other ways. Bolf is an example of them... narrowly missing I think. If bolf said "absorb damage to your hero dealt by spells and battlecries", maybe it's a playable card. The issue is when your opponent kills bolf for free by hitting face with minions, which makes it act like a 0/9 minion.

 

[slightconfuse]

It's pretty easy. Warlock that doesn't play a minion turn 1 is a Renolock, Mage with roaring torch but no freeze spells is Reno Mage

yea i fugre that but reno rogue got me good yesterday

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

yea i fugre that but reno rogue got me good yesterday

Decks that don't make sense but haven't shown a duplicate yet.

 

[Heropon]

I drafted three Fiery War Axes and Varian Wrynn in arena and the weapons never appear at turn 2.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

Firebat's Fatigue series ft. Violet Illusionist and Coldlight Oracle combo has been pretty fun to watch.

that a deck?

 

[Xanathus]

that a deck?

Anything's a deck if you're brave enough.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

So yeah, just realized Blizzcon is next month and not next week. Explains why everyone was saying an announcement was a lock lol.

 

[ZealousD]

Firebat's Fatigue series ft. Violet Illusionist and Coldlight Oracle combo has been pretty fun to watch.

The very idea makes me want to punch a baby.

 

[wiibomb]

that a deck?

if priest can have a deck, I don't see why this can't happen too

 

[sibarraz]

MalyRogue is the most entertaining and satisfying deck for me right now, it's cool when you manage to play malygos

 

[wiibomb]

I'm seeing lots of C'thun Druids... may be because I'm pretty low in ladder, but most of them are C'thun over here

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Crafted Alexstraza's Champion and Twighlight Guardian. Because I want that Golden Warrior portrait god damn it.

 

[bronkonagurski]

Disguised Toast has a face. Mind = blown.

 

[rahji]

experimenting with renolock and renorogue let me fall from rank 12 to rank 17. ouch.

 

[patchday]

My current list.

Barnes has been such a disappointment in this deck before. Too many whiffs and too much tempo loss if he does whiff.
The deck preys on Freeze Mage. Aldor Peacekeeper + Forbidden Healing completely negates Alexstrasza.

why no Tirion? I'd think hes higher priority then Lightlord. This is all guesswork from me I lack both those legendaries right now

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

why no Tirion? I'd think hes higher priority then Lightlord. This is all guesswork from me I lack both those legendaries right now

Because HS is a bitch of a programme that doesn't scale and rather adds a scroll bar when there's too many singletons.

Of course there's a Tirion, my bad.