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- Thread starter ZealousD
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Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Probably not, I don't think things have changed regarding molten giant being too good at 20 mana
If anything, they'd even be stronger due to how blizzard has over time scaled back combo/burst options.
Blizard will never straight up buff a card IMO.
What may help Molten is if Blizard put out some cards that raised your max HP.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Unleash the hounds used to be 4 mana. Then it was buffed to 2 mana, before being nerfed to 3 mana.
You know that isn't true. 1 mana shiv is a strong card but it's not even close to 20 mana molten giant was. It's a relatively low impact change to that suggestion.
They haven't stright up buffed a card since the Beta though.
Healing Paladin likely would. Play your 0 mana 8/8s, and then use Forbidden healing to go back to 30HP.
Renolock would play it like they always did. Might actually bring classic Handlock back just in time for when Reno Jackson rotates out.
They over did the nerf, should have been 22 mana to be honest. The 5 increase was over the top. I feel like if Blizzard of today nerfed that card it would've been less severe. Back then when Blizzard nerfed a card it was usually RIP in peace. These more recent changes were far, far better.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think they overnerfed molten giant because of the changes they've been making over the course of the game since launch. If they never touched combo finishers, molten giant is fine. Since they did, I think pre-nerf molten giants is very dangerous. The only thing that could reliably beat handlock would be face decks and even those would just lose a high amount of the time due to either being locked out by reno or by molten giants. And then we've also had nerfs to BGH and silence. Everything they've done spelt out molten giants getting stronger and stronger, and they were already quite strong.
edit:
Funny how I bring up rogue and we instantly pivot to molten giants of all things, something that clearly doesn't need to come back
edit:
Funny how I bring up rogue and we instantly pivot to molten giants of all things, something that clearly doesn't need to come back
Handlock still lost to Freeze Mages, Miracolis and Hunter decks. You didn't need to play Face decks to beat Handlock even in its prime. Hell this new Midrange Shaman can whoop Handlock too.
I think 20 mana Giant is probably too good but 22 mana is just right. 25 mana Molten Giant is forever unplayable, Warsong Commander tier nerf right there.
Also Arcane Giants already exist and let me tell you that I see that card played for low mana way more than I ever saw Molten Giants played for low.
That's a far better suggestion to bring back than 1 mana Shiv (which was how it was until they nerfed it). I mean if you are allowed to be biased with Rogues then I can be biased with Warlock.Funny how I bring up rogue and we instantly pivot to molten giants of all things, something that clearly doesn't need to come back
If buffing cards for one class is on the table then it should be on the table for other classes/archetypes too. In reality the cards that actually require buffs are stuff like Warsong Commander and Savagery, cards that are unplayable in Arena and in Constructed. Cards like Shiv that are already played do not need buffs at all.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Miracle rogue doesn't have the reach it used to and even if it did start running charge/faceless combo, it'd still be a tier 3 deck at best because other decks would just farm them at that point. I doubt the current midrange shaman would due to the efficiency of handlock's board clears. And they don't have the reach without a board lead so I doubt the current deck would be that great (I mean, obviously shaman could likely adapt, but they're broken and being nerfed with the rotation). And freeze mage is one of the last crappy non-interactive decks they allow to exist in the game, not a great argument imo.
Look at all the changes they've made that make or made molten giants stronger over time.
arcane golem
leeroy jenkins
charge
warsong commander
execute
hunter's mark
force of nature
unleash the hounds
big game hunter
owl
Very very few combo options persist and they'll only get weaker as emperor thaurisan gets rotated out.
As for arcane giants, I'll tell you that is a very superficial comparison to make in my opinion. They are actually very different cards, despite being giant 8/8s that get their cost reduced. It's like saying molten giants and mountain giants are the same... we know that is not true and mountain giant survived being nerfed despite being commonly played on turn 4 - sooner than any arcane giant will be typically played at (ever played at?).
Arcane giants in warlock don't even work. To argue arcane giants means molten giants need to be buffed or brought back, is really an incorrect comparison. And arcane giants in every deck that runs it operates very different from warlock (one major difference is no one's hero power reduces the cost of arcane giants, nor draws them cards). It's just a superficial comparison that doesn't even really address the issues that 20 mana molten giants had. Even 22 mana molten giants would likely have the same issues but I'll say it's a bit unclear if 22 alleviates the issues enough or not. I am sure blizzard tested molten giants at values other than 25.
I'm obviously very willing to discuss changes for other classes. I am not being biased at all towards one class or another, I merely brought up what I think they could do with rogue (to which hasn't been actually critiqued). I just don't think you buff warlock by buffing molten giant due to the aforementioned reasons. That doesn't mean warlock buffs are off the table.
For rogue, I think buffing shiv makes sense because they'll never print a 1 mana shiv. But they could print a minion that works in a fairer way or method than molten giant does. There is a lot of space for minion design whereas for class spells, I can't imagine them printing a 1 mana shiv-like card. They would have to buff the card for it to exist.
Four games in a row at Rank 10-11 wild where there person was playing bad standard decks. Like a bad budget tempo mage and a budget standard zoo deck. Four games no wild cards from my opponent.
I also discovered i removed a patron from my patron deck on accident. Whoops.
I also discovered i removed a patron from my patron deck on accident. Whoops.
slightconfuse
Banned
I agree blizzard should buff some cards
I've wanted them to buff basic and certain classic cards for too long.
Midrange Bloodlust Shaman used to beat Handlock back in CLASSIC before it was any good. The current version would mop the floor with any Handlock deck. Hexes and Bloodlust alone ruin them. Then they can tech in Earth Shock to get through taunt or demolish Twilight Drakes.
If board clears were enough to deter Midrange Shaman then they would lose to Control Warriors (or Priests) but they don't because just spamming hero power is enough. And Warriors have way more HP to work with to play around Bloodlust.
Arcane Giants are closer to Molten Giants than you may think. They are generally mid to late game tempo tools to combine with spells or other combos. They are also similar to Thing from Below, another cheat out tempo mid/late game card that everyone knows is over powered. Main difference is that Molten can be played around while the others can't be as well. Though I am not too concerned about Arcane Giant because after Raven Idol/Roots rotates out and if/when they nerf Innervate they are going to be a lot worse. Mountain Giant is nothing like these cards because you can never really play it for 0 mana and even a 4 mana 8/8 is not that great if you had to take 4 damage and skip your first three turns. It's why that card gets cut in many metas, card just sucks most of the time.
But back on Rogue, I don't know what they are going to do with the class. I think buffing a card like Shiv is a terrible idea and they should instead be enabling the Combo mechanic more with newer cards. Maybe more cards like Van Cleef where their combo becomes stronger with more cards used before. Maybe a card that reduces the cost of Combo cards in your hand by 1.
Rogues can probably use a draw card that is somewhere between Shiv/Fan of Knives type can trip and Sprint mega draw. Kinda like Arcane Intellect but more suited for Rogue. Like 4 Mana draw two cards, costs one less for each card played before it. Probably too good but that's more interesting.
Most of the Rogue cards are still very strong and playable. They are the class with some of the most nerfed cards in the history. I think for Rogue it's better to print better type of cards because they haven't gotten much in years.
Instead we should be talking about how Blizzard plans to do with the god awful design of Shaman and how they plan to make Priests work without making them unfun to play against.
If board clears were enough to deter Midrange Shaman then they would lose to Control Warriors (or Priests) but they don't because just spamming hero power is enough. And Warriors have way more HP to work with to play around Bloodlust.
Arcane Giants are closer to Molten Giants than you may think. They are generally mid to late game tempo tools to combine with spells or other combos. They are also similar to Thing from Below, another cheat out tempo mid/late game card that everyone knows is over powered. Main difference is that Molten can be played around while the others can't be as well. Though I am not too concerned about Arcane Giant because after Raven Idol/Roots rotates out and if/when they nerf Innervate they are going to be a lot worse. Mountain Giant is nothing like these cards because you can never really play it for 0 mana and even a 4 mana 8/8 is not that great if you had to take 4 damage and skip your first three turns. It's why that card gets cut in many metas, card just sucks most of the time.
But back on Rogue, I don't know what they are going to do with the class. I think buffing a card like Shiv is a terrible idea and they should instead be enabling the Combo mechanic more with newer cards. Maybe more cards like Van Cleef where their combo becomes stronger with more cards used before. Maybe a card that reduces the cost of Combo cards in your hand by 1.
Rogues can probably use a draw card that is somewhere between Shiv/Fan of Knives type can trip and Sprint mega draw. Kinda like Arcane Intellect but more suited for Rogue. Like 4 Mana draw two cards, costs one less for each card played before it. Probably too good but that's more interesting.
Most of the Rogue cards are still very strong and playable. They are the class with some of the most nerfed cards in the history. I think for Rogue it's better to print better type of cards because they haven't gotten much in years.
Instead we should be talking about how Blizzard plans to do with the god awful design of Shaman and how they plan to make Priests work without making them unfun to play against.
VLPS ran something similar and its destroy mid shaman all day
https://twitter.com/Tempo_Vlps/status/790032932601815040
6 AoE or potentially 7-9 is a lot, you don't need much more hex target for them
BananasWithGuns
Member
I am surprised more people don't complain about Arcane Giant to be honest. It's an absolutely insane card.
There were several times on my climb with ramp Druid where I just dropped double Arcane Giant for 0 mana and the opponent couldn't do jack shit because they burned all their removal on my other threats.
There were several times on my climb with ramp Druid where I just dropped double Arcane Giant for 0 mana and the opponent couldn't do jack shit because they burned all their removal on my other threats.
toddhunter
Member
Druid of the Claw and Silithid Swarmer were buffed to make them beasts. A few other cards have been buffed to become mechs.
Yeah it's insane right now but I think after the rotation it will be a lot worse if Druid does not get more cheap spells.
Certainly if Arcane Giant was a classic card it would have been nerfed.
I Wish they buff Druid of the Claw again so the actual card tagged Beast, you still can't draw this shit from Curator on current form
If you can draw good taunt from curator its would've so good
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Chillmaw
Karsticles
Member
Arcane Giant is worse than Molten Giant ever was. Same stats, the condition is easier to fulfill, and there's no downside to fulfilling that condition.
Its not really that easy, if its that easy its would've staple in Tempo Mage or Rogue with cheap spell, its not.. its just staple in Druid because Druid Spell can became 2 tick to giant activation
I don't think the condition is easier to meet all the time, you need a lot of spells in your deck to meet that condition. And then you also need draw in the deck to get to all the spells so you can discount it fast enough. Druid is capable of it the most because 6 of their spells kinda act like double cost reduction on Arcane Giants (Innervate, Raven Idol and Wild Growth at 10 mana).
However, I do think that more classes are capable of abusing Arcane Giant in the future... mainly Mage and Rogue. Only Handlock was capable of abusing Molten Giant because of Life Tap (outside of fringe decks like Giants Echo Mage which to be honest works better with Arcane and Frost Giants now).
GetDigitized
Member
Somebody tell me who to pick for choose your champion , I don't follow meta.
GetDigitized
Member
Thanks!
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You're listening to one of the few players in the thread who didn't pick thijs!
edit:
We should have a ballot type system, non-anonymous, vote for 1-4th place, most accurate person gets to title the next OT or some other reward
slightconfuse
Banned
Priest needs a good 2 drop and a focus. The class is kind of all over the place.
Is it a healing class?
A stealing class?
A resurrect class?
Is it a healing class?
A stealing class?
A resurrect class?
It's the gimmick class.
Priest will most likely never be the healing class since they can turn healing into damage, which would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Karsticles
Member
I remember when Eaglehorn into face attack used to be a clear sign that you were playing against a noob. Now it's standard.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
First time playing against face hunter?
Nah Eaglehorn into face used to be standard thanks to Face Hunter and Mad Scientist.
That's why the whole face is the place meme started with Hunters. Now and forever the most degenerate class in Hearthstone.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Apparently shadowverse has steam release Oct. 26. Someone should make a thread, but I've barely played the game. I've spent more time opening packs than playing (almost) cause of all the free packs they give away lol
https://twitter.com/shadowversegame/status/788321678531047424
https://twitter.com/shadowversegame/status/788321678531047424
I voted BBgun cause he's from the NA
But I really almost chose Thijs but didnt cause he's not from the NA lol
I really should be more concerned bout getting the packs...
game seems cool. I opened up all the free packs and completed the intro. But thats it tho. just no more time for CCGs (besides HS). I like Deckbuilders though like Ascension to play casually on my phone and Sentinels of the multiverse
If they nerfed hex I think the meta could have been healthy, make it 4 mana and you can't stick 2 in every shaman deck hopefully. It's just not fair how cheap it is when even execute cost 2 now. If you want fix shaman it's gotta be either hex or thing from below and hex is a more permanent solution.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
They should buff execute
To 0 mana
To 0 mana
If Blizard puts out another early Spell Power Minion before the next rotation, I could see Shaman decks running Master of Ceremonies. 3 mana 6/4 is pretty good, and even a 4/2 is workable.
Also, if they nerf Hex, I think they will just make the Frog Token Stronger. Making it a 1/2 with taunt would be more fair.
Also, if they nerf Hex, I think they will just make the Frog Token Stronger. Making it a 1/2 with taunt would be more fair.
slightconfuse
Banned
Hex nerf would be big it's how you win games especially with Hunter
Blizzard has proved that they'd rather print straight up stronger versions than do actual buffs. But if i were to choose cards to buff, here's what I'd choose.
Savagery (Rework)
Warsong Commander (+1 atk)
Ironforge Rifleman (+1 atk or hp)
Starving Buzzard (-1 mana)
Drain Life (+1 damage)
Frostwolf Grunt (+1 hp)
Dalaran Mage (+1 atk)
Nightblade (+1 atk)
Stormpike Commando (+1 hp)
Archmage (+1 atk)
Lord of the Arena (-1 mana)
Core Hound (+1 hp)
War Golem (+1 atk or hp)
Kidnapper (+1 hp)
Dust Devil (+1 hp)
Felguard (+1 hp)
Pit Lord (+1 hp)
Lorewalker Cho (+1 atk)
Arcane Golem (+1 hp)
Thrallmar Farseer (+1 hp)
Fen Creeper (+1 atk or hp)
Priestess of Elune (+1 hp)
Windfury Harpy (+1 atk or hp)
Ravenholdt Assassin (+1 hp)
The Beast (+1 hp)
Nozdormu (Rework)
Savagery would be really good if Druid had more ways to increase their attack. The reason it sucks is that most of the cards that do increase their attack are unplayable, and the ones that are playable only give Druid a minor boost to attack. Its right now an underwhelming combo card, but could be good one day.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Man, these new quests are nice. I think I've gotten a 60 gold quest on all but one day since the patch which was a 50 gold one.
Karsticles
Member
Hmm, really? I spent my early months playing Face Hunter to rank 5, and I kept the Eaglehorn for removal to ensure my minions had more staying power. Maybe that shows that I'm just not cut out for Hearthstone-style aggro.
Woah, cool. I wonder how big the playerbase will be. I was looking at all the card games out there, and I was surprised by how popular Faeria is (based on Steamspy).
Faeria: 28,030 ± 4,344 (7.23%)
Duelyst: 58,880 ± 6,296 (15.71%)
Infinity Wars: 4,583 ± 1,756 (0.76%)
Hex: 4,760 ± 1,790 (2.53%)
Card Hunter: 9,343 ± 2,508 (1.26%)
Solforge: 1,763 ± 1,089 (0.57%)
Runescape Legends: 10,930 ± 2,712 (3.65%)
Did I forget any?
So yeah, Duelyst is definitely the #1 card game out there by a huge margin, but Faeria seems to be alive and well 2 years after release. Runescape Legends is still new, but I expect those numbers to go down - it's not a good game. Card Hunter surprises me, but it has a ton of single player content that might attract people to the game, and it is ridiculously generous and charming.
I've never understood why Hex > Polymorph, or why sheep are more dangerous than frogs.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Fuck 75 murlocs is way too many for a quest you need forever to finish that and it's literally impossible to do so when laddering.
Sheep can attack, Frog can't. That's a significant difference.
Though it's like half a mana worth of difference at the most, not really one mana.
Zealous: Solid choices for buffs except for one.
I don't agree that Dust Devil should be 2 HP. I don't want a situation where someone coins out two Dust Devils at the start of the game and then wins because they can't be removed by just hero powers.
And Warsong Commander needs to be like +1/+1.
Though it's like half a mana worth of difference at the most, not really one mana.
Zealous: Solid choices for buffs except for one.
I don't agree that Dust Devil should be 2 HP. I don't want a situation where someone coins out two Dust Devils at the start of the game and then wins because they can't be removed by just hero powers.
And Warsong Commander needs to be like +1/+1.
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