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Hearthstone |OT7/7| _ Give Tyrande | _ Blizzard: Give Amazon Money
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think it does matter how it performs compared to other games because we're looking at twitch as the market and how much of that market does hearthstone own; it also the best information we have. Each month the amount of events and hours of broadcast is different, which can easily explain a downtrend. Each month what counts as an esports broadcast is also a factor. This makes the best indicator of growth or decline is it's overall standing compared to other games; it's simply the best information we have available.
Karazhan is not an expansion like OG is. It's an adventure. I wouldn't expect that big of a jump if any, but I would also expect the impact to be in August, not September when it's a month or longer after the first wing came out (where I would expect the hype to be highest is the first wing). OG came out in June (technically April) but June's viewership is lower than April and April's is lower than May. We know old gods caused the highest active users users via nirolak right? If even old gods failed to produce a spike in total hours viewed, then total hours viewed is simply not an accurate indication of the active user base.
And again, the % column doesn't mean the esports is declining, it means that the non-esports scene is simply bigger relatively speaking. If the game had 20 million less total viewing hours but remained with 5 million esport hours, it would have a 33% esport share but it wouldn't be more successful as an esport. That would just mean the non-esport scene has shrunk a ton. This leads me back to the larger point in that each month has differing amounts of events and hours broadcast. I haven't seen any viewer hours per broadcast hour, which would be much more indicative of growth or decline.
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Regarding your talk about the patches, if I am correct in understanding your logic, you are saying these patches show the developers think the game is dead or dying and therefore are rushing to put out patches. That is not a compelling argument for two reasons. First, the patches are not unprecedented. 1 was a balance patch we get at least once a year. In 2015 we got two balance patches, one for undertaker and one for patron warrior (maybe more, but those 2 I recall clearly). The next was a "content" patch, more quests basically, and a few adjustments to cards so insignificant people barely cared about them. In 2015 we got tavern brawl. I am assuming the third patch relates to arena? Okay, but so what? This was clearly in response to community demand which leads me to the second reason.
The second reason the argument is not compelling is because as previously alluded to, these patches may have and even likely are in response to motivations other than player count. I think your argument is just heavily diluted by speculation, which flies in the face of more obvious reasons; nor would it really show the larger trend. If hearthstone sees player count dipping one week and they respond and player count is restored, then there is no extra action needed thus you could conclude that player count is no longer dropping but is actually rising.
So perhaps the two biggest points I am making is that relative viewing hours performance is our best indicator of success we have available to us, and that total hour viewership is not correlated enough with monthly active users to indicate growth or decline in the player base.
As the person to discover the karazhan.com domain name before the expansion was officially announced, I can say that this domain registration is different. They've registered it much later than the usually do (only a couple weeks ago) and they didn't use GoDaddy's Domains by Proxy service to hide the true owner. It could be that they've gone away from that protective measure this time since we're "on to" them but that seems doubtful.
I think it's more likely that this domain was registered for another use.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
FREEDOM!
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Nax: Good outside of one card that took way to long to nerf, which alone was enough to make it terrible
GvG: Good outside of a few cards with real bad RNG issues, and a few cards that should have gotten nerfed but never did. Luckily those cards worked in every class and archetype so it didn't throw balance out of wack, but did cause for a ton of seeing the same cards. The overall meta was quite good.
BRM: The only old decks that got a long term boost were decks people hate playing against, but they weren't helped that much. Patron Warrior was born, which was controversial at legend/tournament levels, but largely inconsequential for everyone else.
TGT: Absolutely terrible. A million worthless cards, more boosts to only the least fun decks, and the birth of Secret Paladin. Meta got real bad here.
LOE: An introduction to some actual fun archetypes that could be used to counter the less fun archetypes. An definite improvement to the game and best expansion so far, though some of the problems from previous expansions lingered here.
WOTOG: Introduction of Standard really helped with getting rid of the problem cards mentioned in the GvG review and made the meta take longer to figure out, which was good. The figured out meta ended up being not so great with some of the best decks having some of the most random cards, and teir 3 and below decks suffered from the power levels of the teir 1 decks more so than ever.
Karazhan: Takes the unhealthy meta of WOTOG and makes it even worse. All the best and most interesting cards end up having varying levels of bad RNG.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Lol i just found out i beat ikealyou 1 of the top 8 from EU blizzcon qualifiers FeelsGoodMan. I knew the name sounded familiar when i was playing against him.
Here's my summary of the expansions
Nax: Ignoring the Undertaker cancer that it spawned, this was VERY GOOD. Lots of powerful cards, interesting mechanics and really cool bosses. Sludge Belcher and haunted creeper are probably too good for the cost but, hey its not like they are gonna do that again are they?
GvG: Oops! Spoke too soon. Some great ideas lost in a sea of power creep and a few insanely broken cards. Some really great control cards in this set and also some really good ideas that had to be removed due to OP vanilla shit like Mechwarper and Minibot/Muster.
BRM: Good but not great. The bosses and adventure were on Naxx level, but the Dragon synergy cards are just too few to be a really workable tribe. Needed like 10 more cards or something to make the theme work. Good but not great.
TGT: Good ideas, bad execution. Inspire is a cool idea that doesn't work on the cards because everything is overcosted and horrible. Blizzard claims this is because Inspire will ruin the game into a runaway snowball effect, I dunno about that but whatever the case this idea never got good because of the costing. Joust is another horribly executed idea that has no value due to the effects not being strong enough and the trigger rate being too low.
LOE: The explorers are the best designed cards in Hearthstone ever, Reno and Elise in particular, but Finley and Brann are also cool. The boss encounters were amazing as well. Some of the best stuff that has been made for this game hands down. Possibly sets the bar too high for the rest of the game.
WOTG: Each of the Old Gods are pretty interesting in themselves. N'Zoth is probably too powerful in Wild, but that isn't the card's fault that the old cards from Naxx and GvG are still OP. The other Gods have cool mechanics (even C'Thun), and at least try to be worth the 10 mana cost. Lots of the other cards printed are not very good though. Every "corrupted" X card is terrible. I think even the decks that ran Corrupted Healbot for a Priest OTK thing, don't do that anymore. Good set with a few great cards that is ruined by lots of vanilla garbage and a weird obsession with tentacles.
OiNK: This feels a bit too new to look at fairly since we don't know the effect of all the cards yet with the future sets, but here it goes anyway. Not a ton of interesting cards, but a few that are pretty great. Arcane Giant in particular is really powerful in spell based (combo??) decks. Nothing at the level of LOE or Naxx, but it was a fun Adventure a few really cool boss fights hampered by low difficulty or bad AI.
Nax: Ignoring the Undertaker cancer that it spawned, this was VERY GOOD. Lots of powerful cards, interesting mechanics and really cool bosses. Sludge Belcher and haunted creeper are probably too good for the cost but, hey its not like they are gonna do that again are they?
GvG: Oops! Spoke too soon. Some great ideas lost in a sea of power creep and a few insanely broken cards. Some really great control cards in this set and also some really good ideas that had to be removed due to OP vanilla shit like Mechwarper and Minibot/Muster.
BRM: Good but not great. The bosses and adventure were on Naxx level, but the Dragon synergy cards are just too few to be a really workable tribe. Needed like 10 more cards or something to make the theme work. Good but not great.
TGT: Good ideas, bad execution. Inspire is a cool idea that doesn't work on the cards because everything is overcosted and horrible. Blizzard claims this is because Inspire will ruin the game into a runaway snowball effect, I dunno about that but whatever the case this idea never got good because of the costing. Joust is another horribly executed idea that has no value due to the effects not being strong enough and the trigger rate being too low.
LOE: The explorers are the best designed cards in Hearthstone ever, Reno and Elise in particular, but Finley and Brann are also cool. The boss encounters were amazing as well. Some of the best stuff that has been made for this game hands down. Possibly sets the bar too high for the rest of the game.
WOTG: Each of the Old Gods are pretty interesting in themselves. N'Zoth is probably too powerful in Wild, but that isn't the card's fault that the old cards from Naxx and GvG are still OP. The other Gods have cool mechanics (even C'Thun), and at least try to be worth the 10 mana cost. Lots of the other cards printed are not very good though. Every "corrupted" X card is terrible. I think even the decks that ran Corrupted Healbot for a Priest OTK thing, don't do that anymore. Good set with a few great cards that is ruined by lots of vanilla garbage and a weird obsession with tentacles.
OiNK: This feels a bit too new to look at fairly since we don't know the effect of all the cards yet with the future sets, but here it goes anyway. Not a ton of interesting cards, but a few that are pretty great. Arcane Giant in particular is really powerful in spell based (combo??) decks. Nothing at the level of LOE or Naxx, but it was a fun Adventure a few really cool boss fights hampered by low difficulty or bad AI.
What if Hearthstone's numbers fluctuate in the same manner that other games' do? What if there is a seasonal aspect to it? You can't ignore that stuff.
Personally, I think it would be best to do after the next expansion comes out. You can see how everything really fits in.
I want to just say how glad I am res priest is pretty not great and I seriously hope the next expansion doesn't try to bolster it further as I feel like that archetype would be immensely frustrating to fight.
The few times I go against them is just awful. The deck hinges so heavily on drawing the injured blademaster early, but when that happens and they keep popping off res effects...ugh. Just had a game with one coined turn 2, another turn 3, res + pw:s on 4, bishop on 5 which I had to equality wipe, barnes into minisyl + another res, then another bishop that gave syl again.
Though without the curve out stuff there's still such a massive swing potential with the RNG revives, having to kill a ragnaros 3 times when there's a giant pool of garbage to summon is awful.
The few times I go against them is just awful. The deck hinges so heavily on drawing the injured blademaster early, but when that happens and they keep popping off res effects...ugh. Just had a game with one coined turn 2, another turn 3, res + pw:s on 4, bishop on 5 which I had to equality wipe, barnes into minisyl + another res, then another bishop that gave syl again.
Though without the curve out stuff there's still such a massive swing potential with the RNG revives, having to kill a ragnaros 3 times when there's a giant pool of garbage to summon is awful.
slightconfuse
Banned
Anyone have a deck,for the battle cry quest.
Don't like discard lock at all. Its kind of bad
Don't like discard lock at all. Its kind of bad
so I crafted a Bloodmage Thalnos and netdecked a midrange shaman deck
you know, to see how the other half lives
it's... it's not even fun
it's just unfair
it feels... dirty
like i'm looking at the other player and going, "yeah that was actually a pretty good play. unfortunately lol shaman" and then I just put more shit on the board and work that spell power and totem synergy, and then win with bloodlust on turn 6 or some shit
you know, to see how the other half lives
it's... it's not even fun
it's just unfair
it feels... dirty
like i'm looking at the other player and going, "yeah that was actually a pretty good play. unfortunately lol shaman" and then I just put more shit on the board and work that spell power and totem synergy, and then win with bloodlust on turn 6 or some shit
Well next expansion we would have new cards to review and re-review. And it will be a lot of cards so those take time.
Right now is usually when we do the re-review. Sure some cards may go up in value with more cards added in but I think the potential of cards is more or less figured out.
I can start trying to collect streamer opinions this week.
Who did we want to put on blast this time? I know we're overdue for Firebat. Maybe do him, Trump, Amaz, and Kibler?
He's been playing all the Blizzcon decks on stream ever since they got revealed. Interesting approach since he wasn't guaranteed a caster spot.
Did hi give many thoughts while doing that?
man his stream schedule so fucked up for me
Sounds good as long as Firebat is in there. Maybe Reynad too if he did one.
Yeah he was very good at explaining his thought-process as he learned the ins and outs of every deck.
He wants to beat Shamens with Freeze Mage. He hasn't encountered a Shaman in 15 or more games.
Blizzard match making at its finest.
I haven't seen that many shamans before rank 5 tbh, especially at this stage of the month.
Had a quest to play 20 5+ cost minions along with win 3 games as Shaman so I decided to try out the Concede Shaman that the Angry Chicken talked about in their last podcast... went 5-0 and am closing in on Rank 5 now lol.
Deck is insane and really fun. think most people assume they are playing aggro/mid-range Shaman and rush the board early and then lose a lot of value to my board clears.
Highlight was when I Tinkmaster'd a Dragon Warrior's Deathwing and he Alt-F4'd out of the game. Also Justicar + Totem choosing is actually really good because you can have multiple of a single kind of totem. Was able to hold off N'zoth for a turn with a bunch of Stoneclaw Totems and was able to clear a board with a bunch of Arcane Giants with an Elemental Destruction + 4 Wrath of Air Totems in another game.
Deck is insane and really fun. think most people assume they are playing aggro/mid-range Shaman and rush the board early and then lose a lot of value to my board clears.
Highlight was when I Tinkmaster'd a Dragon Warrior's Deathwing and he Alt-F4'd out of the game. Also Justicar + Totem choosing is actually really good because you can have multiple of a single kind of totem. Was able to hold off N'zoth for a turn with a bunch of Stoneclaw Totems and was able to clear a board with a bunch of Arcane Giants with an Elemental Destruction + 4 Wrath of Air Totems in another game.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I played priest today for some quests. Made my own dragon/n'zoth priest deck. Ran into priest mirror. They entombed my sylvanas. Fuck priest. 
Can't wait for that shit to get rotated out.
Can't wait for that shit to get rotated out.
I'm still on 10
, even though to be fair I got a job this month, and I have played like 3-4 matches a day, some days I do other quests and in other I don't even play
slightconfuse
Banned
You guys see Rag getting nerfed , since he is an auto include in most decks
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think it'll have pirates (the boats on the card, this talk of robbery etc, plus gadgetzan's zone had pirates/bandits). We may have some mechs but I don't think it'll be mech themed, not nearly as much focused as gvg at least. I could also see them doing a goblin racial.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Immune to kodos
add taunt to those Vault Doors and I'm sold
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I vastly prefer expansions over adventures. Way more cards and they release all at once.
Yeah but they do so at the end of the adventure release schedule (e.g. you get the expansion at the same time as wing 4 of the adventure).
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I hope so. It's one of the worst RNG cards left in the game.
But they also need better cards in the 7+ mana slot that aren't just good Control vs Control. You might be able to solve the Ragnoros popularity just by giving better options, though if you need Dr. Boom levels of overpowered to overtake Ragnoros, then better to just nerf him.
Either 1 mana more or make him do like 5 random damage instead. Or pull a Dr. Boom and make it random 2-8 damage also.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
not at all. good card, fun to play, not really that broken to be honest.
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