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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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CelticKnight
Member
Judging by the way aggro is taking over I'm crafting Patches and possibly Hobart Grapplehammer.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Yeah I got smacked by regular ass Hunter playing Jade Druid
Karsticles
Member
Jade gets slaughtered by aggro, but it tends to slaughter control in my limited experience. Lopsided matchups are bad for any competitive game.
molnizzle
Member
That's how Hearthstone has always worked though, the meta shifts all the time. Jade is the answer to strong control decks. And even then you still need to get the right draw to win out in the end. If anything, Jade feels far too inconsistent to be competitive. At least with the Rogue deck I've got going.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Guess what i don't want to play brain dead aggro decks.
It's still too soon to say aggro is taking over, or that control is dead.
When Old Gods launched, Miracle Rogue and N'zoth Paladin were tier one, Priest was tier two, Spell Druid and Dragon Warrior aren't even listed, and the only deck on the tier list with Yogg in it was a tier 4 Mage deck.
https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/standard/meta-snapshot-1-the-new-standard
When Old Gods launched, Miracle Rogue and N'zoth Paladin were tier one, Priest was tier two, Spell Druid and Dragon Warrior aren't even listed, and the only deck on the tier list with Yogg in it was a tier 4 Mage deck.
https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/standard/meta-snapshot-1-the-new-standard
molnizzle
Member
Right but my point is Jade probably isn't gonna be viable in the long run. People are playing it now because it's new, but it seems to have some serious weaknesses. I've been trying to run with it since yesterday and it's really rough now that people have figured out that they just need to go for the face and shut me down early.
Karsticles
Member
I feel like Jade Rogue is the weakest archetype. Shaman is okay. It's the Jade Druid that I think has the potential to be meta-defining.
The problem is that aggro = brain dead in Hearthstone, and that doesn't have to be the case. A lot of card games have aggro that is difficult to play well.
RumblingRosco
Member
lol. Just did an Arena run. My pack had a Kazakus, so now I have 2 legendaries in 51 packs. And, Priest is my favorite class, so Kazakus Reno Priest could be a fun time-waster.
I logged on and played 5 matches this morning at rank 9. Against 5 Pirate Warriors. If this ends up being the meta, then it's vastly worse than Shaman. Nothing I do matters, it all comes down to whether they have a solid draw or not.
thekillermuffin
Member
So what's the early consensus on Kazakus? I didn't unpack him, but I'm tempted to craft just since he looks so cool.
The expansion has been out for less than 24 hours. Lol.
Karsticles
Member
Friendly reminder that Wild exists if you want to escape Standard's toxic meta.
Kakazus is very good, but whether he's worth crafting depends on how the meta pans out.
Kakazus is very good, but whether he's worth crafting depends on how the meta pans out.
I think a control deck can beat a jade golem deck if it has a win condition that's not fatigue. You have to put the jade golem deck on a clock. Something like Anyfin Paladin can do this. Reno decks can pull win conditions from something like Yogg in Reno Mage or powerful Inspire effects like Paletress in Reno Priest. Here's a couple replays of my reno games yesterday. I already posted the Priest replay but the Mage one pulled a win condition out of Rafaam.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/wnER4yF34FXzd42UmiTABS
https://hsreplay.net/replay/Kv6e8VJyKwqi2PK3RtvuAn
incredibly versatile. youre basically guaranteed a good spell for any situation unless you get super unlucky.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
But Rogue is like the worst example of a Jade deck. Druid's Jade deck suffers from the same weakness, but at least it can heal itself, maybe put out a taunt or two as well.
The card is very good but we don't know if Reno decks are going to have staying power in the meta.
Everybody is freaking out about the full Jade Golem package in Druid. Honestly, when the meta settles down I think a Spell Token Druid that runs Mark of the Lotus and maybe just 1 or 2 copies of Jade Idol might turn into the real meta-deck for Druid. You could really blow somebody out with Violet Teacher when you have redundancy in the +1/+1 board spells now.
Jade Druid is very easy to play and the deck builds itself which makes it very attractive early in the expansion. But people will refine spell Druid and I think it'll be stronger.
Jade Druid is very easy to play and the deck builds itself which makes it very attractive early in the expansion. But people will refine spell Druid and I think it'll be stronger.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
i've been trying renolock......jade golems get completely out of control
Put the Leeroy package in to try to end the game before the Jade golems get completely out of control.
The best way I found to beat Jade as Reno mage is to play it like freeze mage.
I might start running alexstrasza.
Aggro pirate isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
I might start running alexstrasza.
Yeah and it's already the pits.
Aggro pirate isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
CraigerGamer
Member
Here is my Reno'Zoth Deck List. Only loss came from a misplay that should have stopped a hunter aggro deck cold.
I find it quite odd they decided to literally specify which of your opponents cards are buffed in their hand yet on the flip side there is no indicator that your own pirates will summon Patches... I've seen quite a few missed attacks with him because people just forgot they'd summon him lol
Karsticles
Member
I feel like needing to put the Jade Golem deck on a clock is the exact proof that control decks are dead - if you're about putting your opponent on a clock to answer what you are playing each turn, then you're probably playing a midrange deck now. Control decks should never have to be on a timer - they can't succeed as such. One definition of control is that the deck gets stronger as the game goes on.
Then cthun warrior already killed control decks.
Some control decks get stronger as the game goes on than others. Always have.
There have been control decks in the game that have put people on clocks before. Control Warrior used to put people on a clock with Alexstrasza and Grom. Anyfin Paladin does this now. Slow Warlock decks can Leeroy+PO+Faceless. Basically they have to move in this direction rather than just waiting for Golden Monkey or burning people out with Triple C'Thun.
Classic Control Paladin stays losing.
CelticKnight
Member
Fucking hell, I can't even finish the "Win 3 matches with Warrior, Paladin or Hunter" quest.
Old decks don't work and don't have enough new cards to make a decent "expansion" deck.
Old decks don't work and don't have enough new cards to make a decent "expansion" deck.
Yeah Control decks with definite win conditions can win against Jade. I have been able to beat Jade Druids with Renolock if I can get going before them (and I have the Faceless Leeroy finisher). Anyfin Paladin can win against Druids, Freeze Mage can win against Jade Druids (not really a control deck but just illustrating the point)... most probably Cthun Warrior too.
Control decks which have the win condition of "I am going to answer everything you do" will inherently lose to Jade decks.
Honestly speaking Control decks not having definite win conditions has been an inherent problem with Hearthstone for quite some time. Most other card games have control have some sort of late game combo where if they reach there they win the game. Stuff like Seraph of the End of Havencraft in Shadowverse.
This isn't a Jade Druid only issue. There have been numerous ways to punish pure Control decks in the past (like Deathrattle Nzoth Rogue with Anubarak). Now we just have another way.
Like my thinking is that the FULL DUMB Jade Druid isn't the way to go just like FULL DISCARD wasn't the way to go with Discard Lock. Right now people are playing all the Jade cards in Druid and just playing curvestone when that's probably not optimum.
Control decks which have the win condition of "I am going to answer everything you do" will inherently lose to Jade decks.
Honestly speaking Control decks not having definite win conditions has been an inherent problem with Hearthstone for quite some time. Most other card games have control have some sort of late game combo where if they reach there they win the game. Stuff like Seraph of the End of Havencraft in Shadowverse.
This isn't a Jade Druid only issue. There have been numerous ways to punish pure Control decks in the past (like Deathrattle Nzoth Rogue with Anubarak). Now we just have another way.
I have had a similar prediction but I have also that deck running Gadgetans to cycle the cheap 1 mana cards and keep creating Jade Golems while you cycle. It's going to take some time to develop that deck because it's more of a combo deck.
Like my thinking is that the FULL DUMB Jade Druid isn't the way to go just like FULL DISCARD wasn't the way to go with Discard Lock. Right now people are playing all the Jade cards in Druid and just playing curvestone when that's probably not optimum.
Tavern Brawl.
Except druid which has four giant taunts and two potent heals + what you dig from raven idols.
Jade Rogue however...
Brian Griffin
Member
Trying out Reno Priest and it's ass so far. Lost to new Miracle Rogue, Jade Druid, Hand Buff Paladin, and Zoolock.
Karsticles
Member
Control decks can put others on a clock, but Control vs. Control shouldn't be about the clock, it should be about resource management. For example, in Priest vs. Anyfin Paladin, the match isn't about Anyfin Paladin putting the Priest on a clock. It's about the Priest trying to counter the Murlocs so that the Paladin can no longer win with Anyfin, and the Paladin is trying to ensure the Priest has to use its preferred removal on other cards as well.
Reno Priest, or Reno Shadowpriest? You only really Reno Priest if you're going Shadowform. Otherwise there are too many cards you would rather have 2x of for consistency and excellence.
So basically, not Priest.
Still, having a consistent Control deck that beats both Jade and Pirate Warrior, or at least can survive is a bit of a nightmare.
Reno OTK doesn't necessarily need Shadowform.
Secret hunter still works just fine for me in casual and on ladder, all I've added is one of the new hunter secret. As someone else said though eventually you can complete things through the tavern brawl if your can accept that it will take some time.
I wanna make a reno mage deck with my new kazakus but reno decks seem to want so many legendaries that by the time I have em all reno himself will rotate out. I suppose I could try a sub optimal deck build and see how far that can take me.
Karsticles
Member
Hmm, I didn't know we were talking about OTK. Reno Priest has a great OTK combo:
1) Play Auchenai Soulpriest.
2) Play Reno Jackson.
Does that actually work? lol
what kind of priest deck are you currently playing?
It works.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
ATLC right now pirate warrior vs Mid Range Shaman
Welcome to the future of Hearthstone for the next couple of months.
Welcome to the future of Hearthstone for the next couple of months.
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