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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Most of my games have been against Aggro Shaman and Renolock the last day or two, both of which are good match-ups (although conventional wisdom is that my deck should lose to Renolock, that's not what I'm experiencing.)
What scares me is Druid. When I started running this list Druid was an auto-win, and lately that match-up has been much harder. I'm not seeing as many players Turn one Shuffle Jade Idols into their deck, and I think the lists are a lot better than they were. Luckily I'm barely seeing Druid but right now I think that not only are the Druid players getting better, so are there lists.
I still think my list is favored but I wouldn't bet money on it.
Here's the meta I've seen over the last 24 hours.
I'm against any nerfs in the first couple months after a card is released except in very extreme circumstances. I agree that Patches is over-powered, but so are a lot of cards in this game. What I'm against is Blizzard putting their hands on the scale and deliberately shaping the meta instead of giving us the tools to do that ourselves. They printed Patches, sure, but they also printed strong anti-aggro cards such as Mistress of Mixtures, Dirty Rat, Volcanic Potion, Alley Armorsmith, Second Rate Bruiser, et al., to go with the tools we already had.
Like, Kazakus is blatantly overpowered, but it's a control card so people aren't up in arms. An over-powered aggro card is treated differently by the community and I'm not sure that's healthy. Removing aggro from the game entirely isn't a goal that I think Blizzard should have. I think it was necessary for aggro to be as strong as it was in order to challenge all these super greedy Jade and Reno lists people were trying. I don't think a super-slow, Jade meta would be better than what we have now, which is a diverse meta with options for Control, Midrange and Aggro. (If we lump in combo decks that run a control shell with straight control, this might be the most control-friendly meta I can ever remember.)
As far as Pirate Warrior being 20%, I'm sure at least some of those warrior decks are the new Dragon Warrior (which I think is a better, more consistent list anway) and certainly there are still some loyalists running Alley Armorsmiths and I know a guy and other new cards in a control shell.
You know I really fucking hate the design of the Hunter class, but I even feel bad now in MSOG how just goddamn awful they are. They are worse off than Paladin is right now. I got to Rank 5 with a Paladin Hand Buff deck and I fell 3 ranks because I tried some random netdeck midrange hunter and it just sucks.
I'm curious if running the pre-MSG midrange secret Hunter list wouldn't just be better. One of the issues with Hunter is that Face Warrior and other aggro decks being so popular made everyone's midrange and control lists so defensive, which naturally just counters what Hunter's game plan is.
Hunter is probably the most one-dimensional class in the game. Still, midrange Hunter had a good run back when people still played control Warrior. Last season it was midrange secret Hunter that got me to rank 5 after I stalled out at 7 with discardlock.
Kazakus isn't even in the same stratosphere as Patches. Actually I am shocked that people think there's a card in the game in Standard that is as close to being as broken as Patches is right now.
For one it has a heavy deck restriction to even utilizing it. Not only that but it's a tri class card so it's expected to be slightly stronger than normal than a neutral Legendary Thirdly, the potions are still random and sometimes you may not get the exact potion you need for a specific situation or match up. This all runs opposite to Patches which is consistent, is a neutral Legendary, has very low deck building requirement and is available on the board as early as turn 1.
And it doesn't matter if it's Pirate Warrior or Dragon Warrior or "Tempo" Warrior... they are all using the blatantly over powered Patches package. One of these decks will be the best one and that's the one that gets used. Pirate Warrior is just a scapegoat here, the real issue is Patches. You got Rogues, Shamans and Warriors abusing it already... wouldn't be surprised to see classes like Paladin try their hand at it too.
It's a bit early to call this the best control meta especially when we have two aggro decks in tier 1 and only one control deck in there. I do agree that we actually have the best control deck we have ever gotten in the history of HS but I don't even know if that will be enough to deter people from pointing the arrow to face.
For the record I am also generally against nerfing early. But I am also for making emergency changes when there's an obvious issue at hand. You don't need 2 months to figure out that Patches is over powered just like you didn't need 2 months to figure out that Undertaker was over powered. Things at that scale are obvious the minute you play the deck for the first time.
Portugeezer
Member
Aya is one of the most annoying minions to kill. That stat distribution along with the death rattle... (and battlecry)
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
First I heard someone call kazakus blatantly overpowered...
People are going to say whatever comes to their mind in order to defend Patches getting nerfed.
Kazakus has to be over powered with its restrictions otherwise it's unusable. Same for Reno Jackson only Kazakus is a tri class boss so it needs to be even stronger than Reno.
As well as the fact that it already got a good amount of value in the battlecry, so a silence/hex feels like a waste.
It's great card design really.
And yeah Aya is definitely over powered too but again it has to be to both be usable itself and to enable the archetype.
Don Honcho is a good card but it's not over powered enough to enable the archetype. That's one of the reasons why the Grimestreet mechanic has been a failure thus far. The good thing going for Don Honcho is that it's usable in more decks unlike Aya and Kazakus so that probably explains the lowered power level. Like you can create a Paladin or Hunter OTK deck with it (lul at Hunter combo deck with those awful draw options).
Don Honcho is a good card but it's not over powered enough to enable the archetype. That's one of the reasons why the Grimestreet mechanic has been a failure thus far. The good thing going for Don Honcho is that it's usable in more decks unlike Aya and Kazakus so that probably explains the lowered power level. Like you can create a Paladin or Hunter OTK deck with it (lul at Hunter combo deck with those awful draw options).
Patches is a problem because it's going to be shredder level popular as long as it exists and there is no real deck building involved whatsoever as shown with shaman or miracle rogue. You just play good one drops, suddenly you have a free 1/1 charger at the start of the game, yes please. That's against their own design priorities they've stated in the past.
A card like Kazakus is clearly not the same deal, it's strong but it's a build around card, it needs to be strong. Patches isn't build around. You just stick it in your deck because why not. you have a spell power overload totem synergy deck with pirates added and it works great? lol.
A card like Kazakus is clearly not the same deal, it's strong but it's a build around card, it needs to be strong. Patches isn't build around. You just stick it in your deck because why not. you have a spell power overload totem synergy deck with pirates added and it works great? lol.
Meh Don Han Cho cost too much for no immediate impact.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Why is this shaman so lucky.... rolls healing totem when needed. Later rolls spell power totem or he basically loses. Then he evolves and gets kel thuzad.... This in arena is disgusting.
So tilted by that I maybe even lost the game due to misorder of reacting to that KT.
So tilted by that I maybe even lost the game due to misorder of reacting to that KT.
There are so many cards in standard at the moment that a card needs to be overpowered in order to earn a slot. That's just how it is. Is Patches, compared to all the other OP cards, the most broken? Maybe. Should it be nerfed? I still say it's too early to make that determination. We've already seen huge shifts in the meta in just a week and half, and the meta is still changing.
Patches isn't Undertaker. At the end of the day, Patches is a free ping on turn one that sometimes costs your opponent resources to be dealt with and increases the consistency of pirate synergy cards. It isn't game-breaking.
I don't want to see any nerfs yet. Period. This is when the game is fun, when we have a bunch of new cards and we are all trying to figure things out. Blizzard needs to give us space to do that.
I also have a hard time believing emergency nerfs are due because when I see patches I heave a huge sigh of relief because I know I'm against a deck I can easily beat. If you're seeing a large number of Patches decks, maybe it's you who needs to adjust to the meta instead of asking Blizzard to adjust the meta to you.
I rarely play aggro decks. Patches isn't in either of two decks I've been focusing on this season. Patches getting nerfed or not isn't anything I'm personally invested in, so I'm rather perturbed at the implication that I'm making things up to justify my opinion.
Kazakus took Reno decks from a tier 3 niche deck few people played to one of the most powerful archetypes in the game, and the "restriction" of only running one-ofs isn't really that much of a restriction since at the moment Standard has its largest library of available cards in Hearthstone history. Kazakus is over powered. So what? Why does saying that bother anyone? It's one of many. There's always going to cards that are significantly more powerful than others. It's the nature of the game.
You mean like this?
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/dogs-aggro-paladin-mean-streets-of-gadgetzan/
They did from day 1. It just didn't catch on as much as Warrior did.
BananasWithGuns
Member
It's pretty much a rule of Hearthstone at this point that if a Druid is going second then they have Wild Growth and Jade Blossom in their starting hand.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Kazakus isn't overpowered but it includes the type of rng that usually riles people up.
slightconfuse
Banned
Face shaman is more Mindless than pirate warrior
The Mango Sentinel
Member
It's the only deck at the moment that is consistently beating the shit out of me. No idea what to do against it. It just spirals out of control.
I feel like I have to just go face to stand a chance, but more people are putting in Ancient of War, and after that drops, I'm fucked lol.
bronkonagurski
Member
This dragon/pirate warrior variant is pretty fun.
0 mana 0 card that deals free damage to opponent and requires some resources from the opponent to deal with AND activate Pirate synergy cards?Levi said:
Not sure what your idea of game breaking is. This is about on par with Undertaker level. At least there were games where they didn't have Undertaker on turn 1 because it's still only 2 cards in the deck, Patches can be activated by 6+ cards.
It's not Kazakus by itself that pushed Renolock to tier 1 and you would be foolish to believe otherwise.Levi said:
Abyssal Enforcer, Mistress of Mixtures (which is better than playing Chow for Lock), Felfire Potion, Blastcrystal Potion, Second Rate Bruiser, Dirty Rat... these cards in ADDITION to Kazakus is what is making Renolock good, not any card individually.
Guess what... Renolock is going to be tier 3/4 again when Standard changes next year. Patches is still going to be extremely strong, in fact Pirate Warrior is going to be practically unchanged. You still have all those weapons and 1 drop Pirates.
I don't struggle against Patches decks, you made a poor assumption there. I can beat any deck with my Renolock, I am not scared of anything.Levi said:
The issue is that Patches deck push other decks out of the meta. It warps the meta to make sure everything is able to counter it or they are irrelevant. You could say Renolock does a similar thing BUT Renolock gives ample time for the other deck to assemble their game plan. It doesn't prevent you from playing your game... Patches does by the very nature of being a very aggressive card. What kind of combo are you going to pull off when you die at turn 5-6?
I am not interested in a potential future meta where it's just Patches decks and Renolock decks. You can make counter decks to Renolock very easily but those counter decks get punished by Patches deck. It's a cyclical meta in the making that we have gone through time and time again.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Wow Thijs demolished JJ.
bronkonagurski
Member
I have to say, I am late to the Patches train (started playing him last night) but yeah it is really, really good.
My most common scenario has been getting the 1 mana pirate that creates a 1/3 weapon to draw patches. Having two 1/1 minions (one with charge) plus the 1/3 weapon on Turn 1 is incredibly insane value.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Patches is not undertaker?
Maybe it's better.
Maybe it's better.
Patches is already more ubiquitous than Undertaker. Undertaker was used in two decks mostly, Zoo and Hunter. And you could actually play games where they didn't have Undertaker.
So if someone put a gun to my head and asked me which was more broken then I might be inclined to say Patches.
I ALMOST want to throw in Patches into Renolock decks with Dread Corsair. I would've done so already if 99% of Pirate cards weren't face cards.
This video made me laugh though, Pirate Warrior so committed to the face strategy that he/she doesn't even armor up with the free 2 mana:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3tg-wHjycM
I guess it's smart because it activates your Mortal Strike faster.
Kripp experiences a bot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8jDR5_NUvs
Was talking about this earlier when I thought it was the worst Shaman player ever, turns out it was a bot (presumably).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8jDR5_NUvs
Was talking about this earlier when I thought it was the worst Shaman player ever, turns out it was a bot (presumably).
When the next round of nerfs comes they'll likely address Patches if the numbers show it is warranted. Until then, it's best to play the game we have instead of worrying over whether Pirate decks are too good.
I've personally been having fun playing the decks I want to play. No meta is ever going to be perfectly tailored to the entire playerbase's preferences but the one we have now is pretty interesting and has a ton of options.
I also don't know how many times I have to say I think Patches is a broken card before people stop trying to convince me that it's a broken card.
I've personally been having fun playing the decks I want to play. No meta is ever going to be perfectly tailored to the entire playerbase's preferences but the one we have now is pretty interesting and has a ton of options.
I also don't know how many times I have to say I think Patches is a broken card before people stop trying to convince me that it's a broken card.
If you want to run a Pirate in Reno this is the one I'd use. (I don't think it's a great idea when every slot in Reno is so important but you never know until you try and I can just imagine the other players reaction when they're playing a regular Renolock game and suddenly... I'M IN CHARRRRGE..)
Dr.Horrible
Member
I almost lived the dream, lol. I'm messing around with a Priest Raza deck and I'd already played Raza. I played the card where you can discover a mage card and sure enough, Coldarra Drake popped up. I also had Auchenai Soulpriest in hand. Sadly my opponent quit before I could actually pull it off.
I thought you were planning on holding Dread Corsair until Jaraxxus or something, lol.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Bloodsail corsair is not good enough. The reason patches is good is not because it thins your deck, it's because it makes your already strong 1 drop insane.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Patches and Small Time Buccaneer and are just par for the course for Blizzard. They decide they like an archetype so they make overpowered cards until it floods the ladder. It's nothing new.
Like, you can't even remotely argue that either card is balanced when both of them are being run in Shaman which hasn't gotten a single pirate card in the history of Heathstone. They're both broken, they should both be nerfed. It's simple.
Like, you can't even remotely argue that either card is balanced when both of them are being run in Shaman which hasn't gotten a single pirate card in the history of Heathstone. They're both broken, they should both be nerfed. It's simple.
Karsticles
Member
What are people's Jade Druid lists? I might want to take a break from thinking this evening.
Search the Thijs jade Druid or Kolento one
Karsticles
Member
I had to use Faceless Manipulator to copy an 8/8 Jade Golem to stand a chance.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Lol, Evolve a 7/7 Jade Golem into Ragnaros.
Eat shit, Dragon Priest.
Eat shit, Dragon Priest.
BananasWithGuns
Member
It's astounding to me that nobody seems concerned with the fact that Druid draws more cards more consistently than fucking Warlock does lol.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Wow evolve + doppelganger is pretty hilarious
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The only thing that still concerns me is fandral. The card is somewhere between nuts and broken. Maybe jade idol as well, but we'll see.
Nah I'm fine..
Never hit the button.
Use the "extra" filter in search and only disenchant what you need to craft the cards you want to make.
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