The Mango Sentinel
Member
Yeah? I figure you kill off some of those 1 drops though if you end up playing them later.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Ooh thanks I'll watch this before sleeping tonight. I remember sjow from sc2.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
What's the skill cap with Kazakus?
Knowing when to pick 1/5/10 spells in certain match ups and situations. New players ignore the 1 mana option against fast decks when it's actually super efficient. Then some players go max greed with the 10 option while others always pick the 5. I myself am in the always pick 5 category (almost always) and am working to improve that.
Beyond that knowing which discovers to pick based on the situations. Sometimes it's obvious you need the board clear but getting damage plus demon summon is really nice if you need to play for tempo. The resummon minion option is very good too but now you need to keep track of what died in the game which is something Warlocks never had to do before. The transform minions to sheep is also a relevant spell to choose for removal.
Then when to actually play Kazakus and when to keep/mulligan him. Hell when do you keep him for Brann vs using him earlier.
In addition, you have to know about spell interactions and order which a lot of people still don't know. So you can still mess if you don't know which spell triggers first.
And hardly anyone knows the odds of these options. It's going to take months before people play Kazakus optimally and once we have gathered all the data on it. I think getting AOE clear on the 1 mana option is 50% but what's the odd of getting 2 damage AOE AND 4 armor?
Like people used to Discover is a skill intensive mechanic when it first came out. Kazakus is literally triple that and because it selects from a pool of fairly limited spells.. you can actually try to guess the odds rather than try to get X card from random class or minion discover that those other Discover cards have.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
I haven't played a *ton* since MSOG came out, but I really don't think Patches needs a nerf. Yes, he's powerful compared to, say, Wisp and Stonetusk Boar, but those cards pretty much suck. Yes, Patches is "free" if you don't have him in hand and play a pirate. Yet his impact isn't much more impressive than the previously mentioned Wisp or Boar. He usually does a few damage at most and it's very weak otherwise.
The reason he's so used is because it's "free" value and damage. But you need to use pirates to make him any good. IMO, the "problem" is that pirates are better than ever.
Small-time Buccaneer is a great aggro card, especially when combined with:
N'zoths First Mate, which synergizes well with Upgrade and...:
Bloodsail Cultists and Captain Greenskin, which also works well with Fiery War Axe and Arcanite Reaper.
Since you will almost always have an upgraded weapon in hand, Bloodsail Raider is a great aggro card now too.
All of these pirates are now so good that aggro decks don't even run Southsea Captain anymore because it's not as impactful.
The problem is that the Pirate tag is now too consistent and powerful, so what should be a restriction for Patches -- building a deck with many pirates -- isn't a detriment at all. And unlike with something like Murlocs or Beasts, it's not even that they synergize with each other exceptionally well (although they do with the *deck*). It's that they are good on their own and all contribute to an aggro game plan on their own.
Patches is just icing on the pirate cake, not the actual substance of the issue.
IMO, of course.
The reason he's so used is because it's "free" value and damage. But you need to use pirates to make him any good. IMO, the "problem" is that pirates are better than ever.
Small-time Buccaneer is a great aggro card, especially when combined with:
N'zoths First Mate, which synergizes well with Upgrade and...:
Bloodsail Cultists and Captain Greenskin, which also works well with Fiery War Axe and Arcanite Reaper.
Since you will almost always have an upgraded weapon in hand, Bloodsail Raider is a great aggro card now too.
All of these pirates are now so good that aggro decks don't even run Southsea Captain anymore because it's not as impactful.
The problem is that the Pirate tag is now too consistent and powerful, so what should be a restriction for Patches -- building a deck with many pirates -- isn't a detriment at all. And unlike with something like Murlocs or Beasts, it's not even that they synergize with each other exceptionally well (although they do with the *deck*). It's that they are good on their own and all contribute to an aggro game plan on their own.
Patches is just icing on the pirate cake, not the actual substance of the issue.
IMO, of course.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I really don't know how the hell non-aggro Shaman is going to survive the next set rotation with as many board clears as there are now. Class is going to be back in the basement.
Even right now, Renolock alone makes midrange Shaman not worth playing.
Even right now, Renolock alone makes midrange Shaman not worth playing.
LyleLanley
Banned
Jade Idol can go fuck itself.
Last time I checked, warlock isn't warrior/ paladin/hunter.
When jade druid shuffles three idols first turn to lose the game on turn 5 LUL
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Im so done with Jade golems.
The only 1 health minion aside from Patches is the Deckhand. Both with charge, so you're guaranteed to get value when you play them later on. DB is better on curve compared to AR.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Got to rank 5 had to turn to the darkside and use pirate warrior.
Now i can play fun decks again.
Now i can play fun decks again.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
better, aggro shaman is easier to deal with for rogue than pirate warrior imo and there's an aggro miracoli variant now as well.
Suprisingly good.
SMH SMH
The good thing is that Rogue is (HAS) gonna get good cards on the next expansion just like Blizz did with Paladin, Shaman and Priest when they needed it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It just turns out cold blood on a free stonetusk boar is not the worst.
Also figures that I'd run into pirate warriors right away after saying they are worse than shaman for rogue.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Can't wait till Reno gets shipped to Wild...
So only aggro decks are viable?
I think that Reno should be moved to the basic set so its always available.
Antique Healbot should also be part of the basic set.
1 mana: You need to effect the game immediately because your opponent is putting pressure on you and you don't have any other options.
5 mana: You pick this one when you want to fill in your curve. Better when you play Kazakus early and you aren't feeling serious pressure.
10 mana: You need strong value against a deck in the late game.
I just got memed by a garbage combo from a garbage priest.
Everyone bitches about Patches but Anduin is the real enemy. They should just admit they were wrong and delete the whole class.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/fkHYzgrdAj9Q4ZCagq5wkC
EDIT: And no, Reno shouldn't be added to the basic set. The whole point of rotation is that we DON'T have to play as and against the same decks for all eternity. If anything, more cards should be rotated, not fewer.
Everyone bitches about Patches but Anduin is the real enemy. They should just admit they were wrong and delete the whole class.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/fkHYzgrdAj9Q4ZCagq5wkC
EDIT: And no, Reno shouldn't be added to the basic set. The whole point of rotation is that we DON'T have to play as and against the same decks for all eternity. If anything, more cards should be rotated, not fewer.
Foreign Jackass
Member
I play F2P so maybe you're right and the problem is the fact that Reno is fucking necessary in this meta.
Foreign Jackass
Member
That garbage combo deck was made by Kripparian and it's getting cloned all over.
they already said that antique healbot is not good for their plans as it adds a neutral healing to all classes, which is something the dev team wants to limit on some classes, like rogue, that card will remain on wild forever.
Reno I feel will be on kind of a same place as AH since it add healing to all clases, what is limiting it is the condition. I don't think we will see it added to the classic set, I would love it, but it seems like it won't be
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
PPP is awesome in wild secret paladin. I prefer the lategame NZoth version overall but I can make full use of 2 divine favour with the much lower curve in Pirate Secret Paladin.
Echoing what ZealousD said, my guide to picking Kazakus potions goes like this:
That's pretty much it. Note that burst is really important in the mirror matches as they will also have Reno and being able to kill them from a surprisingly high health total will get you wins that you might not otherwise get (suck it Renolock that I bursted down for 17 as a Priest).
- 1 mana: When getting pressured by aggro or other aggressive decks. Pick this to play immediately or along with other cards next turn.
- 5 mana: mostly when trying to curve out with good effects.
- 10 mana: The game is going to go long a d you need as much value as possible or need reach to burst down an opponent.
That's pretty much it. Note that burst is really important in the mirror matches as they will also have Reno and being able to kill them from a surprisingly high health total will get you wins that you might not otherwise get (suck it Renolock that I bursted down for 17 as a Priest).
vS Data Reaper Live has been updated with actual decks, not just class win rates. Top three decks in the game are Aggro Shaman, Pirate Warrior and, surprisingly, Miracle Rogue.
Karsticles
Member
Miracle Rogue was doing very well after WotOG, too. I think it might just be a deck that flourishes when people are experimenting because it's so finely tuned. I doubt it will stay on top.
So discover is a skill cap now?
Jade has all but dried up for me. Nothing but Reno mirrors, dragons and the occasional Pirate deck.
hellooo from the wiiiiild siiiiiiiiide....
Discover always had skill involved. You had a choice to make and experienced players would make better choice. More skill than say playing Buccaneers and getting a random class card.
And MSG Miracle Rogue is just Aggro Rogue with Gadgetan. So that's three PPP decks on top, four if you include Dragon Warrior.
lol as predicted by reynoodle
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Many on gaf saw this coming. Paladin was already in a pretty bad spot barring one deck and MSG didn't do shit for that.
I'm not sure about that. It still seems to be more of a combo deck, based on its win rates versus the control decks. Especially when you compare that with the win rates of the true aggro decks versus those same control decks.
It may have Patches in it now, but I don't think you can call it aggro.
It can play like Aggro (aka have an aggressive start and finish the game fast) and play like Combo when the situation arises. That's what makes the deck good, if it played just like previous Miracoli it would not be good because of all the other aggro decks out there.
Have had "Miracle" Rogue do turn 1 Bucaneer into coin Cold Blood on Patches for uncontested 5 damage at start of the game. Couldn't kill the Patches on turn 1 then took 9 damage the following turn. So half life removed on turn 2.... LMAO!
Counters always existed to Renolock. Look at the match ups, has it losing against Tempo Mage and Midrange Hunter. Where are all these Tempo Mages and Hunters to counter all the Renolocks? Oh that's right they can't play PPP as well so they get rushed down by other PPP decks. That would have happened to old Miracoli Rogue as well in this meta.
Have had "Miracle" Rogue do turn 1 Bucaneer into coin Cold Blood on Patches for uncontested 5 damage at start of the game. Couldn't kill the Patches on turn 1 then took 9 damage the following turn. So half life removed on turn 2.... LMAO!
Counters always existed to Renolock. Look at the match ups, has it losing against Tempo Mage and Midrange Hunter. Where are all these Tempo Mages and Hunters to counter all the Renolocks? Oh that's right they can't play PPP as well so they get rushed down by other PPP decks. That would have happened to old Miracoli Rogue as well in this meta.
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