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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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slightconfuse
Banned
SonicXtreme
Member
i feel like druid is better than warlock and priest. but regardless, i'd take shaman over all of those. still loaded with board clears and obscenely OP class minions, and more weapons than ever. i don't think i've lost to a warlock yet since the exp, that's kinda shocking. that 7 mana 3 damage dude is good but other than that, i don't see it. shaman can still easily flood the board and bloodlust is a monster finisher for zoo shaman drafts. priests 3 drop and dragonfire potion are good but, as long as you draft well with removal, priest can't roll with the top 3 imo, any draft with strong removal wrecks them
Even losing a bunch of cards from Cwar won't really mean much since Cwar is fairly irrelevant in the meta.
The cards they are losing aren't really a big deal. The only updated Cwar lists I've seen already cut Justicar and Elise, since the fatigue gameplan is dead and you can gain enough armor to be out of burst range with 2xArmorsmith and 2xAlley Armorsmith anyway.
Maybe Cwar makes a comeback in the next meta if the stars align and they get good tools while all their terrible match-ups become either less effective or less popular.
Everyone predicted Jade Idol would kill Cwar but honestly it's likely the terrible match-up with Renolock that really put the nail in the coffin, along with the overall weakness of the "Grimy Goons" mechanic making most of their new cards below the power curve in the current meta.
Regardless, I'm greatly looking forward to the rotation. Sure, I'm losing a ton of fun cards that I have really enjoyed, but at the same time I'm excited to see massive changes in the Hearthstone landscape. It's a fantastic time for deckbuilding and experimentation, because not only will we be getting a ton of new cards, we won't be able to rely on many of the old faithful cards when making new decks with those cards.
My only regret is that the Basic/Classic set is set in stone, because some movement there would really open up some space in the meta for new and interesting things to happen.
This is fantastic advice. The lower ranks of wild are mostly people playing Standard decks or very close to standard decks, so you can be competitive without spending a ton of dust. Wild is also easier overall, because these days it's where people go to play their 30 taunt minion decks and the like to clear quests. You can spam garbage minions to clear a quest faster, and if you happen to sneak a win it'll count towards your golden hero, and you don't have to tank your Standard rank to do it. I've been doing all my non-Shaman quests in wild since I'm not switching decks there until I hit rank 5.
Lost my promotion game to hit 6 because this Renolock played Reno on curve, discovered a Manic Soulcaster and was able to draw and play his second Reno in the top two-thirds of his deck while at the same time getting a Rag to stick.Frustrated me enough that I decided that was enough Hearthstone for today.
I just fought a Dr Boom user in Wild at rank 20. Wild ladder is not easy at all. I had to put on my tryhard pants to finish my Shaman quest there just now ;(
Was fun using my Control Shaman but lots of greedy decks there. I hope its not this rough for f2p newbies. I know Kripp was saying he hates playing on his f2p account now
(Just go to Standard ladder if you're not worried bout yer rank its much easier lol)
[edit] It might be the time of day. I find it much easier to climb in early mornings and lunch breaks at work
Was fun using my Control Shaman but lots of greedy decks there. I hope its not this rough for f2p newbies. I know Kripp was saying he hates playing on his f2p account now
(Just go to Standard ladder if you're not worried bout yer rank its much easier lol)
[edit] It might be the time of day. I find it much easier to climb in early mornings and lunch breaks at work
SonicXtreme
Member
wild is easier u just can't play the same way as in standard (aggro doesn't work unless it's hyper aggro, hard removal ie mulch, hex, polymorph, is absolutely essential and wrecks things like dr boom). most of the 'OP' wild cards are very cheap, shredder and sludges will only run you 300 dust and can help make basically any shell you want to play with viable, compare that to standard where 'OP' shells are generally much more expensive dust wise
it is also much better for f2p because you don't need to netdeck, if you have a random assortment of good cards you can make a deck that will win ladder games; good effin luck compiling your own deck for standard ladder and enjoy getting beat by the same 5 decks over and over again
SonicXtreme
Member
priest has such useless early game options in arena i'm straight shocked people think its good, i donno, just from experience, every time i draft it i get shittons of minions that restore health or add to health pools, but when you have a trash early game, it's such a useless ability when classes like mage and shaman can just shatter your game from their hand and put out more powerful minions you can't deal with
Um...
You have an over powered 1 mana spell that covers for the early game in case you miss a drop..
Any 2 drop that Priest drafts from the neutral pool becomes god like when they play Kabal Talonpriest on curve.
That's all they need to be good in Arena because once they survive the early game, they are the kings of late game.
SonicXtreme
Member
except talon priest isn't going to hit anything on curve because the good classes in arena have prime t 1-3 removal so your battlecry is weak compared to classes that can directly affect the board with their hero power and abundance of 3 damage 1-2 mana spells
and spells that don't do guranteed damage are a trap in arena. they look good on paper but for consistency, you want direct damage if you're not going to pick an OP minion. things like velens chosen and guardian of kings sound great, but when you're facing a good arena player, they know to keep the board clear at all costs to avoid such spells even if it means sacrificing some face damage.
Priest has premium early game removal too in Shadow Pain combined with Potion of Madness.
But early game removal is still very hard to come by for anyone except for Priest due to the occurrence bonus. If anyone is going to be removing something early... then it's going to be Priest.
Usually in Arena a 2 drop does get to survive especially for the player going first, hence the first player advantage.
And Priest's hero power does impact the board. Far more than something like Warrior, Hunter or Warlock for example. Being able to heal own minions for 2 HP is really strong in Arena.
Should let the people at Heartharena know because they have Potion of Madness at a whooping 85, basically Shredder tier.
SonicXtreme
Member
it doesn't affect the board early and arena is 100% about early game. you could program a bot to do nothing but draft OP 1/2/3 minions and a select few high value high mana cards and i guarantee it would win > 50% because people fall into traps in arena and don't see the big picture. having cards like don han cho sound great but when you play the other player just laughs at the underpowered minion you just dropped and wins by going face and ignoring the late game you're setting up
50% winrate isn't even good in Arena... going 3-3 or 4-3 on average, meh.
Potion of Madness is a great card, Kabal Talonpriest is one of the best cards in Arena and that Priest common 5 mana 5/5 is solid too. Priest got quite a big boost in this expansion and they had the hero power to carry them in the mid to late game.
Pretty much everyone has Priest in top 3 for Arena alongside the other Kabal classes.
Potion of Madness is a great card, Kabal Talonpriest is one of the best cards in Arena and that Priest common 5 mana 5/5 is solid too. Priest got quite a big boost in this expansion and they had the hero power to carry them in the mid to late game.
Pretty much everyone has Priest in top 3 for Arena alongside the other Kabal classes.
SonicXtreme
Member
POM is a great arena card, and kabal is alright. kabal's trap though is the draft is going to offer you class cards very often; so your chances at GETTING comparable rates of good 2 drops compared to the classes which have them are lower, making the impact significantly less. the class has nothing to give on turn 2 and hero power wise, it has no 1 or 2 drop worth saving that will make an impact on the game unless you live a zombie chow dream. it also lacks ways to take out op minions the first few turns, one card POM does not put it in the same class as shaman and mage which can hit out of hand to remove any danger minions much easier as well as have OP minions by turn 2/3 in a dozen different ways priest can't, along with offering better average card draw which is so key. again, you can have all the late game you want, but with steamrolling cards like kvaldir raider around, if you have an empty board early you lose in curvearena
BananasWithGuns
Member
So yeah, I really think Blizzard fucked up bad in terms of Renolock. They gave the deck way, way too much in a single set and now it's just flat out ridiculous. It's the best deck in the game by a large margin at this point in my opinion.
Good.
High skill cap control/combo deck with actual counters is the best deck in the game (with constant tech choice considerations making it harder to netdeck) and not some auto pilot aggro/tempo deck.
Except that it being on top may not actually be true based on stats though I hope it is.
soulslayer
Member
It is the most flexible and powerful deck in the game at the moment. It can beat aggro, midrange, and dominates the control match up. This is also probably the strongest it will ever be. It just has so much removal, high value cards, Kazakus, and Reno. Plus warlock's hero power just puts this over the top.
It's not the issue that Renolock is too good or has no counters.
It's that the counters of Renolock are hard countered by the Patches decks. Midrange Hunter, Tempo Mage, Malygos Druid, Freeze Mage, Rogue decks etc. historically beat this deck but are kept significantly down by the Patches decks at the moment. This has allowed Renolock to basically tech only against aggro and beat everyone else.
It's that the counters of Renolock are hard countered by the Patches decks. Midrange Hunter, Tempo Mage, Malygos Druid, Freeze Mage, Rogue decks etc. historically beat this deck but are kept significantly down by the Patches decks at the moment. This has allowed Renolock to basically tech only against aggro and beat everyone else.
BananasWithGuns
Member
By the way I'm sitting here with 14 cards left in my deck and this Druid has drawn his entire deck and about 6 Jade Idols.
Not sure how anyone can say that's okay. Probably about time for another Auctioneer nerf.
Not sure how anyone can say that's okay. Probably about time for another Auctioneer nerf.
This is more of a Jade Idol problem than an Auctioneer problem though the synergy there is definitely very strong.
Auctioneer in Druid is going to be a lot weaker post rotation with Living Roots and Raven Idol gone. Though the real cultprit has and always will be god damn Innervate. Rogue has HALF an Innervate which is actually seeing play, just tells you how obscene Innervate is.
slightconfuse
Banned
It will be interesting to see what happens when Reno rotates out.
Hand lock seems really viable. Nit sure if krul is any good
Hand lock seems really viable. Nit sure if krul is any good
Acerac
Banned
I'd say it is ok because the deck still doesn't have a great matchup against the majority of the field. If a deck can do ridiculous combos and still loses to the top decks that doesn't seem inherently bad to me.
soulslayer
Member
Interested on your thoughts on this Dahbomb: What do you think of Gang Up with a Miracle package in Jade Rogue? I was testing this out last night and found it too slow. I found it was more effective to build a Jade rogue deck focusing on the jade cards, deathrattle, shadowstep, and cycle cards (Loot Hoarder, Thalnos, Fan, Drakes). I was testing this out in Wild and was having more success than using the miracle list of Thijs.
Surprisingly, shadowstep is really amazing if you can get it off on the Jade Spirit or Aya. I also found Journey Below to be pretty reliable in getting the Jade train rolling. Afraid to play it in standard though because I was facing nothing but Aggro Shamans last night.
You are not going to win with any Gang Up Rogue deck against Patches decks.
I also think that pairing the Jades with Deathrattles is probably the way to go with Unearthed Raptor and those other cards you mentioned.
In other news... just decided to randomly start up Wild at rank 22 and got paired up against a Legend Golden Renolock player...
Both of us were in a shock to say the least.
It's not that simple imo, with Reno and Kazakus the deck is a bit too much now. Though I have no idea whether the deck is even playable anymore when Reno rotates out.
Yeah I have a deathrattle jade deck and it's fun, but not competitive. You can't play a slower Rogue in this meta, you need to go with pirates or a more classic Miracle build. The lack of neutral heals is a goddamn thorn in Rogues side.
You have your beliefs, but HearthArena has stats.
1. Warlock
2-4. Priest, Mage, Rogue
5. Paladin
6. Shaman
7. Warrior
8-9. Druid, Hunter
Brawndo Addict
Banned
So I am on a 7 win arena streak so far with priest. I got double of all the crazy class cards like dark cultist, Kabal cultist bird thing, that one that increases ATK whenever you heal something, Velen's chosen, the works. I also got offered a legendary (took Fjorn over Gruul for Velen synergy) and an epic (shade of naxx).
It's really annoying because 9/10 drafts I don't get a legendary or an epic or this plethora of class cards. And I usually lose my first match to someone who does have a legendary. I guess today is my turn because I don't feel like I'm playing or drafting any better than normal I just got offered amazing card options.
I'd prefer it to be normalized so you get one legendary, two epics, four rares and eight class cards or something like that.
It's really annoying because 9/10 drafts I don't get a legendary or an epic or this plethora of class cards. And I usually lose my first match to someone who does have a legendary. I guess today is my turn because I don't feel like I'm playing or drafting any better than normal I just got offered amazing card options.
I'd prefer it to be normalized so you get one legendary, two epics, four rares and eight class cards or something like that.
Midrange Shaman
No that deck kill faster aggro
its had fast opener and eventually curving out to midrange minion like fierce monkey n twilight guardian and outvalue them
Ah forgot about the monkey, yeah 4 good taunts should give them the edge with the hero power.
I guess the new face/jade shaman would do well.
We'll see, the jade addition makes the deck not purely a face-shaman. Saw Kolento climb with it yesterday and it looked pretty broken. But I guess the taunts in Dragon warrior could give them the edge again.
Ty, playing and watching is slowly helping me figure this deck out. I'm starting to get the hang of things except the mirror which is like the best/worst game of chicken ever.
The problem with Handbuffs is that there is only like two minions that can benefit from the buffs and do good board swings. First one is Sergent sally (which is very underwhelming and tbh it should have gotten charge) and the other is Doppelgagster.
I also wish there was there was more class cards like Meanstreet marshal that can help the shitty early game without falling behind (like granting bonuses if it reached a certain attack or hp).
I also wish there was there was more class cards like Meanstreet marshal that can help the shitty early game without falling behind (like granting bonuses if it reached a certain attack or hp).
RE: next set rotation, I would be surprised if the next expansion doesn't have some alternative to Reno. The class cards and Kazakus are good - RIP Brann Kazakus combo - but they'll probably want another strong anchor card for the archetype. I hope it's really strong but not quite as swing as Reno can be, especially with the new stuff around.
Oh I did that and it was delicious. And I was playing a Reno deck too and had mine in hand.
Oh I did that and it was delicious. And I was playing a Reno deck too and had mine in hand.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Had a game last night where I played Yersa 4 times. Played my Yersa. Tombed his and played that. Got one from Dragon OP. Got one from his Dragon OP I tombed. Lol
It's a little closer now, I think. At least, it feels that way to me. I've played the matchup as both the Warrior and Shaman and it always seemed like the Shaman was on the front foot during the game. Most Dragon Warrior decks have cut Execute, which makes the 4 mana 7/7 a big problem for them.
Decks that counter Dragon Warrior even harder are Renolock, Reno Mage and Jade Shaman.
Interfectum
Member
Best play I had was a warlock played doomsayer and I tossed out brann + dirty rat which pulled Reno and Thaurissan. He rage quit and friended me.
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