CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Draw Finley, pick Life Tap. ez
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
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Draw Finley, pick Life Tap. ez
Portugeezer
Member
But it also thins out your deck, guaranteeing you're not drawing that as a 1/1 on turn 4 or 5 is huge when you play a lot of small cost cards. Makes room for KorKron Elite.
I haven't really shat on Patches, and you can see that if you look at my posts in this thread, but the possible value on turn 1 is so good, N'zoth > Patches > coin Southsea Deckhand or Buccaneer... that is a lot of power on turn 1. To me it is similar to Tuskarr Totemic could be game winning.
The free "ping" Patches offers in the next turn is also huge when it comes to dealing with an opponents upcoming 2 drop.
I can't take credit, I found the deck online and thought it looked interesting. Basically you run a shitload of 1 mana minions and then shove in basically every way Druid has to buff tokens and flood the board early, before everybody's AOE comes online.
Argent Squire x2
Dragon Egg x2
Enchanted Raven x2
Living Roots x2
Mark of the Lotus x2
Runic Egg x2
Sir Finley Mrrggleton
Druid of the Saber x2
Lance Carrier
Mark of the Wild x2
Mark of Y'Shaarj x2
Power of the Wild x2
Mounted Raptor x2
Savage Roar x2
Defender of Argus x2
Soul of the Forest x2
I agree with that, I expressed myself badly. I meant the whole summon directly from your deck is way better than having to draw and play the card like if a 0 mana stonetusk boar was available instead.
Also considering Razorfen Hunter is 3 mana I'd say a 2 mana stated card with summon a 1/1 charge as text would probably be worth 4 mana. Even if it cost 3 then it still wouldn't be as broken as Patch as the tempo gain wouldn't be as high usually.
whenever I play wyrmrest agent the pirate warrior just an't recover, that or any minion with somewhat amount of life, like a twilight welp.
The deal with these pirate decks is to have some early game and abandon the greediness since they can kill in a couple of turns.
I don't think either patcher or the priate warrior decks are something to be concerned, they are viable decks as much as others out there, nothing huge like people are making it to believe
The deal with these pirate decks is to have some early game and abandon the greediness since they can kill in a couple of turns.
I don't think either patcher or the priate warrior decks are something to be concerned, they are viable decks as much as others out there, nothing huge like people are making it to believe
You don't include "draw a card" in the math. There is value in gaining an extra card in your hand and Patches doesn't provide that value.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Draws and plays. Better than just drawing a card.
slightconfuse
Banned
Yea you need to drop something on turn 1.
No. It isn't.
Razorfen Hunter. Is this card 3 mana 2/3, draw and play a wisp?
Call of the Wild. Is this card play animal companion, and then draw and play two more animal companions?
And don't say "no because these cards don't thin you deck" because if you do then you don't understand what thinning your deck actually means or why it would be good.
RumblingRosco
Member
This is basically me.
RumblingRosco
Member
Mad Scientist has always been valued as basically a "Draw a card" card. It applies the same to the first pirate you play.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Deck thinning is very relevant. It's not the biggest reason patches is played but it is a part of him. Razorfen doesn't draw a card, it generates. They're actually just different effects and it's false to give them equivalence.
I've been arguing way earlier than most that the deck thinning aspect of patches is very minor in aggro decks. Patches 1/1 body is very relevant. I argued this from the start. But you don't just discount it entirely when you're valuing the card. The aspect where you don't pay any resources to draw and play this card is easily worth as much if not more than regular card draw though.
Is Dragonling Mechanic worth 4 mana? Because we're approaching similar levels of power here, with Dragonling Mechanic probably being better than a 2 mana stated card with a 1/1 charge.
Dragonling Mechanic is below curve at 4 mana but above curve for 3 mana, so I would consider it 3.5 mana. A 2 drop (flame juggler or something) with a 1/1 charger attached? Similar power levels, 3.5 mana.
Yeah, that's how I see this.
Thinning still does apply with patches. If you have 8 one drops in your deck, playing a pirate makes it so you have one less one drop to topdeck which even if you kill them by turn 5 still has some level of relevance for the later turns even if it isn't the sole reason the card is so insane. Mad Scientist has disgusting value for both drawing the secret out of your deck and playing it.
I think I've said before that the closest analogue to Patches that has previously been in the game is Mad Scientist. Mad Scientist's deathrattle "draws" and "plays" a card from your deck. It makes decks it is included in more consistent because you're more likely to draw gas than a tempo-negative secret. It's an over powered neutral that only fits in certain types of decks, but makes that type of deck much stronger than they otherwise would be.
It's considered bad to draw Patches before you draw a pirate the same way it's bad to draw a secret before you've played Mad Scientist.
Mad Scientist was also the subject of many calls for nerfs although a lot of people felt that was unjustified.
Mad Scientist was less consistent because you had to draw it to proc the value, whereas Patches gets value whenever you play *any* Pirate.
Mad Scientist should be valued as a 2 mana 2/2 that does the text of the secret when it dies. The tempo gain of the secret is usually better than drawing (or even discovering) a card in most cases. But that doesn't mean the math works out at "draw a card value" + "mana discount value" otherwise Mad Scientist would be evaluated at something silly like 5 or 6 mana for mages.
Edit: Thought Experiment if you believe Patches or Mad Scientist should have "Draw a Card" included in their cost evaluation:
Wisp Buddy
1 mana 1/1
Battlecry: Summon a 1/1 Wisp
Wisp Summoner
2 mana 1/1
Battlecry: Summon a 1/1 Wisp from your deck
Which card is better? If you evalute "from your deck" as a draw effect worth 1.5 mana, the 2 mana card would seem better. But that's silly, right? The on-board value is the same, and you pay 1 extra mana for the Wisp Summoner.
Kripp probably floored because he experienced the power of Shaman after playing jank as hell decks.
Now imagine how he would feel if he played a Patches deck.
Also I see a lot of people cite the deck thinning of Patches.
Yes.. it is a benefit but that's not the main reason why it's getting used or why it's insane (though it contributes). If Patches put a copy of Patches in play once in the game and the original stayed in the deck (and you couldn't repeat the effect)... it would STILL see the same amount of play.
Patches isn't even a real card that you play. It's like a start of game aura effect that says "You first Pirate summons a 1/1 Pirate with Charge". Patches would see play EVEN IF IT DID NOT HAVE CHARGE!
Unless you're unlucky like me and when you play a Patches deck, Patches is always in your opening hand.
I pay mana to play Patches the same way I always ended up paying mana to get a Silverware Golem on board.
Yeah, no. If he was a 0/1 he'd only see play in Warrior in order to activate Bloodsail Cultist. Maybe Shaman runs it along with flametongue and bloodlust, but I doubt it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It would still be played I think. A body for FTT. A body to be buffed.
I don't think it would be OP though.
I hit rank five for the first time in months thanks to pirate warrior. I ditched renolock for a bit after losing before turn 6. I also made a lot of terrible plays like quitting my turn befor patches came out, hitting with my weapons last charge before attacking with small time....rank 5!
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Jade Shaman in general seems like Spell Druid. Not really terrible at any matchups, but not really amazing at any either. Just a good all around deck that might seem OP until it gets swept in some tournament matches because there aren't enough decks it's absolutely fantasitic against.
I have no clue what sort of Reno Priest is good against slower decks, unless that combo is insane.
I wish I'd seen this clip while we were talking about Dirty Rat earlier, but oh well. Still funny.
https://clips-media-assets.twitch.tv/27396889-offset-11116-854x480.mp4#t=0
https://clips-media-assets.twitch.tv/27396889-offset-11116-854x480.mp4#t=0
RumblingRosco
Member
The more I play Reno Priest and Reno Mage, the more I face Jade Druid and get rekt. Seems I can't burn them before they get out too many big Jade minions, and if I try to play the long game they of course win as I can't fatigue them.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Kazakus seems like a very key card for winning the match up. Playing it early can help secure a tempo victory but getting it late can get incredible value board clear.
The combo is basically an OTK. If you're healthy enough for it, it can be a pretty huge closer against a control deck. It's kind of like the Leeroy+PO+Faceless finisher, but sort of worse.
TetraxShards
Member
"Like a good deck, but worse." is basically Kripp's entire deck building philosophy.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Just had a Freeze mage burst for over 27 from hand with just one Emperor tick.
Fun and interactive.
Fun and interactive.
I mean the deck doesn't seem that bad and I would imagine that Shaman will head in that sort of direction once Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem get chucked out, but Kripp being all "I make decks that are good against everything" is pretty arrogant. I get you're good at arena dude but if you want to make claims like that in constructed you need to put up or shut up and perform in some tournaments.
Kripp's testing for his constructed decks is: did it win 4 or 5 games in a row at ranks 18-10?
Y = Best deck ever (never plays it again, never speaks of it again)
N = So unlucky dude. Hearthstone is just rolling dice and there's no skill involved. Bad player beat me with a netdeck.
Repeat.
Like, getting mad at his claims is wasting more energy than he did making the deck up for a youtube video, of which he produces 730+ a year.
Y = Best deck ever (never plays it again, never speaks of it again)
N = So unlucky dude. Hearthstone is just rolling dice and there's no skill involved. Bad player beat me with a netdeck.
Repeat.
Like, getting mad at his claims is wasting more energy than he did making the deck up for a youtube video, of which he produces 730+ a year.
I'm really liking Pirate/Dragon Warrior at the moment. 18-6 up to rank 4 so far. Half of the losses were to Reno Warlocks who played Reno on turn 6, and I still almost won all of those matches. Just needed slightly better topdecks or to play slightly differently to finish them off a second time.
It's just destroying shamans. Turn 1 Trogg/Turn 2 Golem is annihilated by coin War Axe into Pirates.
It's just destroying shamans. Turn 1 Trogg/Turn 2 Golem is annihilated by coin War Axe into Pirates.
this is j4ckiechan's egg druid deck. he was playing an updated egg druid deck yesterday on stream in which he included patches and bloodsail corsair
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Rank 5 and up is super brutal this season. Was at rank 3 briefly, but I've been shut down. A lot of games I've lost with Reno Mage just not drawing the Reno, even if I find the Ice Block.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm prob gonna start trying out reno mage tonight. What's a good list?
I'm sure "This deck beats everything!" gets him more YouTube views (and revenue) than a more reasonable claim.
Reacting to his clickbait title is just giving him what he wants.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I was playing a list similar to what Kibler was playing today.
Code:
Forbidden Flame
Arcane Blast
Babbling Book
Acidic Swamp Ooze
Bloodmage Thalnos
Doomsayer
Frostbolt
Arcane Intellect
Brann Bronzebeard
Forgotten Torch
Frost Nova
Ice Barrier
Ice Block
Kabal Courier
Manic Soulcaster
Volcanic Potion
Fireball
Kazakus
Polymorph
Refreshment Vendor
Water Elemental
Azure Drake
Cabalist's Tome
Ethereal Conjurer
Flame Lance
Blizzard
Reno Jackson
Firelands Portal
Flamestrike
Medivh, the GuardianOnly thing I'm kinda iffy about is the Medivh over Rag or something but he's proven to be powerful at times as well. Everything else is pretty set for the most part. Few minor tweaks you could make. Win condition is Medivh, and value cards from Kazakus, Conjurer, Cabalist's Tome. Taken Priests to fatigue a few times (made them fatigue out, even with silly OPerative plays.) It's pretty strong overall except maybe vs. Renolock, where their combo is too much to handle a lot of the time, and they get card advantage since the deck is deigned to go pretty late. Not sure how it fares vs. Jade Druid, only played that matchup once and can't remember who won. It's decent vs. aggro, but if you draw heavy cards or none of the cheaper board clears early, it can be pretty sad.
Sometimes loses to Rogue, sometimes wins, you really have to be conservative with your removal for Edwin/Questing all-ins, but it can be hard since Tomb Pillager is so threating (a 4 drop that can win the game on its own pretty much, it's like the Rogue equivalent of highmane, if you get hit in the face with it once, you're pretty much done for.)
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm running savj's list but adjusted a bit. Cut alexstrasza and 1 other card for other things.
Portugeezer
Member
I had no luck vs Priests, so I just went back to Barnes + Maly Hunter. Feelsgoodman.
Not so bad vs aggro with explosive traps and other AOE.
Not so bad vs aggro with explosive traps and other AOE.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Reno mage seems fun. Went 6-1. Lost to a rogue where i just drew poorly and ran out of steam. Also had an arcane missile I threw in when I was making my own deck and forgot to remove when I adjusted to savj's list.
Gained back almost all the stars I lost last night trying to make paladin great again.
Gained back almost all the stars I lost last night trying to make paladin great again.
soulslayer
Member
This is what we've come to now...
Priest playing the PPP Package.
Priest playing the PPP Package.
Karsticles
Member
Priests have always been the most BM players in my experience.
Priests used to play Undertaker and was like the 3rd best deck to utilize Undertaker.This is what we've come to now...
Priest playing the PPP Package.
When a card like Patches come out, everyone tries to do something with it.
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