Oh man I am so sorry I shared an opinion.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Oh man I am so sorry I shared an opinion.
I think it'd be called a zoo deck if zoo wasn't already taken by Warlock decks that spam small minions. So it's a "menagerie" of murlocs, beasts, and dragons. Named after the fact it uses three tribes, not after any particular card.
Well, what cards do you think should be nerfed and how would you nerf them? It'd be nice if you contributed to the conversation instead of just criticizing someone else's opinion.
The thing is though. While Blizzard in the past have allways nerfed combo decks and miracle because it wasnt interactive, its so weird that they are not hammering decks that kill you by turn 5. It isnt any more interactive.
Then again if they decided to do that they might have to actually create a proper ranking system, and we cant have that can we.
I am actually sorry if it came of as a critique. In my personal opinion there are cards that could use the nerf more, but I didnt mean to imply he was wrong about wanting innervate nerfed. Patches is beyond broken and the same goes for Small-Time Buccaneer.
The funny thing is though, imo, every time blizzard want force something to work, they end up with decks that almost require no piloting skills. (secret paladin, aggro shaman, pirates, pre nerf deathrattle (undertaker) )
How to fix Patches I dont really know. Its such a wonky card that simply raising the cost is hardly doing much.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I think an overhaul to the weapon system is probably necessary at this point. The Warrior aggro decks make that especially true.
yeah you are probably right.
Well, we have discussed Patches and Small Time Buccaneer quite a bit in this thread, so I honestly don't think that by bringing up a potential change to innervate the poster was making any kind of judgment one way or the other with regards to possible pirate nerfs.
I don't think Patches needs a nerf. I do think Small Time Buccaneer is too strong for it's cost. A no-downside Flame Imp for weapon classes that summons a 1/1 with charge? No sirree, I do not like it one bit. Raising its mana cost or lowering its stats would be fine I think.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
to be fair we discussed innervate plenty as well.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Innervate has been discussed to death. It wasn't nerfed at standard rotation. We've moved on.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Raising the manacost of patches is not an effective nerf, on the contrary I think it's the absolute worst suggestion. It'd be a nerf for the card when it's at its worst already.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
How is Small Time Buccaneer beyond broken?
Legit question, did people complain about Cogmaster being broken?
well, one guys says "how would you nerf innervate" and instead of engaging we drag the conversation back to Pirates, because we apparently haven't discussed that enough.
I don't think innervate is ever getting changed--it's part of Druid's core identity. It'd be like nerfing Fireball or Fiery War Axe,, but at least it was something to talk about that wasn't freakin' pirates.
Small time bucaneer will a lot worse without patches I always laughing to peep that always saying SBT is the problem
Without patches there's no this T1 doomsayer can be killed bullshit that going around, its already help a lot
some early game removal like living root against bucaneer also a lot more effective without patches
Without patches there's no this T1 doomsayer can be killed bullshit that going around, its already help a lot
some early game removal like living root against bucaneer also a lot more effective without patches
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Tempo's Midrange Shaman from their meta snapshot is more of a tempo than midrange deck.
not sure why people are so offended at this, innervate hade multiple times more discussion than patches. Also of the cards mentioned only Fireball is totally fine imo.
not sure why people are so offended at this, innervate hade multiple times more discussion than patches. Also of the cards mentioned only Fireball is totally fine imo.
I think we can be friendly to people who are bringing topics to discuss on this, a discussion board.
Just my opinion tho.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I mean you weren't particularly friendly in your reply as well.
Quote me. Shown me what I did to deserve this vitriol.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
no passive aggressiveness whatsoever
or pretty confrontational
It's alright to answer in kind but don't get upset about it as well as if it were one sided.
Confrontational is subjective but fine, I'll own it.
Asking the guy with the rude drive-by post to contribute to the conversation isn't much of a sin imo.
Certainly not worth getting dog piled over.
I responded to a guy's question and because he was talking about innervate and not pirates I'm being made to eat shit for it.
I didn't even bring up the subject. I don't even agree with the sentiment. Fuck. Me.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm the only one piling shit on you, so there's certainly no dogpiling going on. When you step into shit, chances are you'll get some shit on yourself as well.
Saying other cards deserve to be nerfed more is just as much an opinion, saying it doesn't contribute is the very same you accused him for.
Also is saying your response wasn't the most friendly really making you eat shit for it?
Keyser Soze
Member
It's such a damn effort to move up in ranks after 5. I think I spent almost two hours getting from R5 to R4...
. Now I am scared to regress.
with Pirate Warrior
Yeah a 60% winrate is still something like 200 games between 5 and legend. It's a brutal grind.
No reason to be scared to regress. Just take breaks if you feel like you are tilting.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think ideally patches should only be ran in decks that are substantially dedicated to the pirate theme. If a nerf could make that happen, great.
Oh lawd.
Crafted Raza / Kazakus this set, but I should have just crafted Finja first.
Currently "climbing" with Finja Shaman and maaaaaaaan, the game CHANGES when Finja hits the table.
I haven't lost a game yet while he was on the board, regardless of whether I procced his ability or not. Just last game, having him out and in stealth for a few turns kept a Reno Mage from playing any creatures.
I threw out a few more chumps to get some chip in and he Flamestriked. Next turn I dropped Call in the Fin-ishers, Bluegill, and double Anyfin is Awesome.
and when he DOES kill something...FLIP MODE!
Deck starts out like a typical shaman....but little do they know that cold, scaly death is lurking in the wet shadows....
Crafted Raza / Kazakus this set, but I should have just crafted Finja first.
Currently "climbing" with Finja Shaman and maaaaaaaan, the game CHANGES when Finja hits the table.
I haven't lost a game yet while he was on the board, regardless of whether I procced his ability or not. Just last game, having him out and in stealth for a few turns kept a Reno Mage from playing any creatures.
I threw out a few more chumps to get some chip in and he Flamestriked. Next turn I dropped Call in the Fin-ishers, Bluegill, and double Anyfin is Awesome.
and when he DOES kill something...FLIP MODE!
Deck starts out like a typical shaman....but little do they know that cold, scaly death is lurking in the wet shadows....
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
God, I love a murloc deck.
I keep bouncing around between rank 11 and 12 with my Aggro Shaman deck, and switch over to play that when I get frustrated.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Kind of a clickbait article, but some effort was put in despite the lack of editing, so I will respond.
I think the idea of having faster games is fine and aggro decks certainly have a place in the meta, but the real issue, which will always be a concern with Tier 1 decks, is that Pirate warrior made up 50% of the meta during the 1st week of release. This was more than the usual characters who try to take advantage of a new card release for quick ranks. Even after release Pirate decks dominate the Tier lists.
The analogy to speed-chess is interesting, but flawed. Speed chess players are at least opting into the experience, but with Hearthstone you have no control over what your opponent will be playing unless you are in a tournament environment; even then the ban phase is limited.
For Pirates and Pirate Warrior to be good for the meta then we need to have counters to that play style that give aggro players a risk-reward for queuing up the Face deck of choice. We are mostly there, but aggro will always be a top choice due to the ladder system. If Blizzard can manage to change the ladder to something more interesting while still keeping players engaged, then the game will benefit.
As I have said before I think we are moving closer to a healthier meta than we had in Karazahn (which was awful) and there may be a few deck builders who find some ways to shake some things up more than they have this first month. If not, then we can certainly look forward to the Standard Rotation for a true shake-up. If things stay interesting till then we should all still be playing regularly.
The point of speed chess is so god damn dumb.
Speed Hearthstone would be where both players are under Nozdormu's effect, you have to make plays fast.
Pirate Warrior is like someone discovering a new Chess maneuver that mates in 4 turns and if you don't see it being played then you lose instantly. And if you think that play is coming, he might hit you with the plan B that mates you in turn 5. Meaning you are leaving the game chance as to if you guessed the move right (in HS it would be if you drew the answer on time) or not.
Or in Starcraft terms it would be like if Zerg Rush was the dominant strategy of the game and even if you knew it was coming it was hard to stop. Neither of those examples are fun to play against or deal with and it's not fun in HS either.
Speed Hearthstone would be where both players are under Nozdormu's effect, you have to make plays fast.
Pirate Warrior is like someone discovering a new Chess maneuver that mates in 4 turns and if you don't see it being played then you lose instantly. And if you think that play is coming, he might hit you with the plan B that mates you in turn 5. Meaning you are leaving the game chance as to if you guessed the move right (in HS it would be if you drew the answer on time) or not.
Or in Starcraft terms it would be like if Zerg Rush was the dominant strategy of the game and even if you knew it was coming it was hard to stop. Neither of those examples are fun to play against or deal with and it's not fun in HS either.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Why am I not seeing Southsea Captain being played? I have yet to see anyone drop that card on the board during this entire pirate meta, not that I'm complaining, just curious.
That card wins me so many games.
Do people not think it fits in or something?
That card wins me so many games.
Do people not think it fits in or something?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
if you want that kind of deck dragon warrior would be a better bet imo.
You don't want an understatted minion that relies on you having a board in an aggressive deck to be worth the inclusion. Not to mention the synergy not actually being that strong within pirate warrior.
The pirate tag is exactly to activate Patches and Bloodsail Cultist. The other pirates have weapon synergies.
BananasWithGuns
Member
easily the most satisfying win that I ever had
https://hsreplay.net/replay/FrZtWLFWWS6GjPkNAXXcHP
I think I play this game really good, thinking how I can turn around after got pushed behind in mid game..
this kinda the game that made me wish most game is like this
https://hsreplay.net/replay/FrZtWLFWWS6GjPkNAXXcHP
I think I play this game really good, thinking how I can turn around after got pushed behind in mid game..
this kinda the game that made me wish most game is like this
There's probably never going to be a mirror as skillful as this in Hearthstone.
But that other guy made some misplays. And pulling Faceless from Dirty Rat was kinda lucky too.
Also lots of playing cards before tapping....
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
For pirate warrior I can't imagine what you would cut.
Maybe if Southsea Captain's effect was a battlecry it would fit, but as is it's kinda like a 3 mana 3/3 with a priority like a taunt and a little extra face damage. Just no competition to the 0 mana 3/3 taunt of dread corsair, or the 3 mana 2/4 with easily added attack and priority like a taunt.
Most other stuff you don't want to remove because it makes your chances to topdeck lethal late game after you lose the board way worse, which is crucial for a face deck like that.
It might fit in more zoolike pirate decks though, like Pirate Rogue.
Southsea captain played in recent Tyleroot's pirate warrior list
What the misplay that you notice?
seeing from the replay tho guy had 4 unrevealed card in dirty rat turn, its possibly his leeroy or reno, even any big thing isn't bad pull because I'm prepped
shypon
yeah tap last is bad habit that need to fixed I do check possible good topdeck tho
What the misplay that you notice?
seeing from the replay tho guy had 4 unrevealed card in dirty rat turn, its possibly his leeroy or reno, even any big thing isn't bad pull because I'm prepped
shypon
yeah tap last is bad habit that need to fixed I do check possible good topdeck tho
From him mostly.
He kept Kazakus in hand, I don't like that. He did end up saving it for the Bran combo which I like but in general you want better turn 4 plays than that in the mirror.
He played Dirty Rat too early with no real follow up and banked on Doomsayer to save him. He didn't get punished for it but it was still not a good spot to Dirty Rat. I don't believe he had a good enough read on the hand to make that play, it was kinda like he tapped first and then realized he didn't have a better play so he just played to fill out his crystals.
He used Spellbreaker on the Drake but I feel in this match up it's better used against Sylvanas. The Drake would've died easily to Mountain Giant and some extra spell while retaining board advantage. Worse yet he didn't even clear the Drake after silencing it, just left the 4 attack on the board. Could've been a Shadowflame Mortal Coil punish there or just Hellfire punish which it did get punished.
On turn 12 he used his 10 mana Kazakus spell to clear a Dirty Rat and Vendor when he could've just used Enforcer to develop a bigger threat and clear your board. That was pretty wasteful for a 10 mana spell to be honest especially when a cheaper option would've done about the same in terms of tempo. He got punished for it by Twisting Nether.
He had 5 unknown cards almost assuredly combo pieces of Leeroy and PO. He went for the greed and tried to set up his combo before when that was the bad play because he had already lost his Faceless, he wasn't going to burst you down. He should've played for max tempo from that point on but didn't and just lost. I don't remember him using Shadowflame and he could've used PO to board control instead at that point.
I actually this my opponent worst play is the sylvanas into argus, not sure what he thinking bout that, I guess he set up 14 damage burst lethal?
btw what do you think about my throw sylvanas to brann play? I think I don't want him get argus value from bran, so if he suicide his bran its ok, but do you think that worth it?
I also doing the same, I want card to be gone but its not worth to not get the benefit while it exist
I think that Sylvanas play was best play in the situation. It felt bad to do but it didn't get punished and it worked out. Could've been punished with his Sylvanas + PO if he had it.
do you actually gonna throw combo pieces for that tho, prolly not right?
You do whatever play that wins the game. You can easily win without using one of the combo pieces if you are ahead on tempo.
Remember that there was a time when these match ups were playing without the threat of the Leeroy combo.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I ended up cutting an Arcanite Reaper. I have to say that it's been paying off big time though, especially if I have the coin.
I was losing hard over the weekend and have completely turned it around ever since I included it.
Edit: to be clear, it's really helping my N'zoth mate and Patches play an even bigger role because they can get through some of those early taunts much better. Turn 3 Spirit Wolves is no longer completely crippling for me.
Plus that little bit of extra damage really pays dividends, especially with the Southsea Deckhand.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
what you're describing is a scenario that should never happen. Patches and Nzoth's first mate don't live until turn 3/4
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