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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
I'm back to buying boring old classic packs.

I went on a crafting streak lately crafting leeroy boom and patches (expecting it to get nerfed anyway).

The only legendary I really care about getting from msog now is Raza. I'll just have to craft it next.

Still missing tons of legendaries from classic and some epics. I did finally open my first warleader but still missing both preps.

Getting closer to not having any big omissions in my collection.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Renolock is actually harder to play perfect than Handlock. You are playing around with a bigger card pool and more mini card combos. Power level is a separate issue but just like Grim Patron was hard to pilot at high level but very strong, Renolock is similar. Handlock faced Face Hunter and Renolock faces Patches decks... Handlock had Molten Giants saves and Renolock has Reno saves. Handlock had far more consistency than Renolock, you could almost always count on having Giant/Drake turn 4 but with Renolock you can't rely on that as much. That's a topic for another day because I can go on this for a long time.

I don't know what that anecdote of a Renolock player in Wild using Malchazaar has to do with anything. There have been many times in HS where someone has made bad plays with subpar deck and still won. That person got lucky because I can assure you any Renolock running Malch is going to get thoroughly clapped by Patches decks.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I'm just gonna say it again Zoolock is and for the majority of its existence has been the most difficult deck in HS to pilot
It's definitely up there for sure.

By the way difficult to pilot in these cases = Difficult to make the best/optimum plays every turn throughout the game not difficult to win with. With Zoolock there are numerous games that you win in super auto pilot methods too just like sometimes you kinda auto pilot win with Renolock or CW.
 

joelseph

Member
I'm just gonna say it again Zoolock is and for the majority of its existence has been the most difficult deck in HS to pilot

Beyond not over extending into board clears what challenges do you think the deck poses?

I find Miracle decks full of interesting decisions. Not sure what I would classify as the hardest.
 
Beyond not over extending into board clears what challenges do you think the deck poses?

I find Miracle decks full of interesting decisions. Not sure what I would classify as the hardest.

Zoolocks have a very limited amount of damage they can do above what's generally required for lethal and once they lose the board they have no real ways to recover it.
No other deck quite punishes bad positioning like Zoo and just don't overextend doesn't cut it, you have to force out the AoE and/or present a clock.

Malygos rogue was the most autopilot deck for me for some reason, while current Miracle is mostly about when to go Yolo with it and when to hold back for an Auctioneer turn.
 

Levi

Banned
I don't know what that anecdote of a Renolock player in Wild using Malchazaar has to do with anything. There have been many times in HS where someone has made bad plays with subpar deck and still won. That person got lucky because I can assure you any Renolock running Malch is going to get thoroughly clapped by Patches decks.

The anecdote is because Renolock is being present as this super hard to create deck where every single card choice matters.

Renolock is actually Reno, Kazakus, Combo, and a bunch of support cards to make sure that the player has the time to use Reno, Kazakus, and Combo.

The deckbuilders working on optimizing Reno aren't these towering geniuses of Hearthstone, the only ones with the intellect necessary to finely craft this incredibly complex deck.

The deckbuilders who optimized aggro Shaman aren't these moron troglodytes who typed "burn" into the deck creation screen and clicked everything that came up.

It took skill (actual skill) to build both of those decks. Looking down on people because they used their skill to create a deck you don't approve of is wrong. (I'm not saying this is your opinion, but the post that started this whole conversation did.)

It takes skill (actual skill) to pilot both of those decks perfectly. There's a reason Amnesia took Aggro Shaman to a top ten legend finish and when I play Aggro Shaman I have a hard time getting over 50%. My (mediocre) skills in this game aren't in that direction, and aggro Shaman isn't as easy to play as control players like to say it is.

I say this as a degenerate control player who would happily play greedy decks all day every day if the meta and the ladder system were favorable to that archetype.

At the end of the day, I don't care what anyone thinks of other people's deck choices. I wish people on the internet would stop trying to demean people because of the deck they choose to pilot in a VIDEO GAME for FUN in their free time. It's literally the dumbest kind of gate-keeping and it's all over the Hearthstone social media.

I'm just gonna say it again Zoolock is and for the majority of its existence has been the most difficult deck in HS to pilot

I don't find any of the current decks particularly difficult or particularly punishing of misplays. We're a long way away from the era of Grim Patron Warrior, Handlock, and Oil Rogue, three decks that I believe were very difficult to play and very easy to lose with if you didn't know what you were doing. Maybe it's nostalgia speaking, since I have very fond memories of that era. We all have our biases. Maybe I find Renolock to be so intuitive because I played so much Handlock back in the day.
 
It's a joke to pretend that Reno Warlock is so complex. Reno Warlock mostly plays itself at this point. It's pretty easy to predict what their play is gonna be every turn, and once the game gets to a certain point they vomit their "very skillful" 20 damage from hand combo and win. SUCH SKILL! WOW.

xGfQpoX.gif
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
I love Kibler for stuff like this. The man is the most happy Hearthstone streamer, I think. Nearly always has a good attitude about stuff. He has endured years and years of bullshit RNG thanks to playing MtG and other games, that this stuff doesn't even bother him. He just laughs most of the time.

Yeah man, i like him cuz his stream is super chill and he always plays fun decks.
I used to watch just Forsen but the awful awful music and Forsenboys message drove me away :(

I still like Reynad for some reason.
 

Levi

Banned
I still like Reynad for some reason.

I've been watching a lot of AsmodaiTV lately. Plays interesting decks very well and has good interaction with his community. Just enough salt to know he cares about the game but not so much it makes me want to switch channels.
 
Man Drakonid Operative is ridiculous.

Using Medivh and Firelands Portal gives me Hallazeal(!) and Baron Geddon(!!). Follow-up Frostbolt gives me Totem Golem(!!!)

Next turn he uses Flamestrike to clear my board.

Then he plays a second and third Operative (from Netherspite) and he gets Medivh and Firelands Portal.

Should've just used an aggro deck.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Why is Handlock being put at this pedestal of skill but Renolock isn't? I have been playing Handlock since I started playing the game (was my first "real" deck) and it's not harder to play than Renolock. Handlock also used to run the Leeroy combo when Emperor came in, that's not a new thing.

And in the broad sense, no deck in HS is that hard to play not even Patron. It's all relative to each other. Aggro decks don't take 0 skill to play just like Renolock or Miracoli don't need quantum rocket science to figure out how to play.

Kinda wish this hyperbole would be reigned back a bit. I don't think anyone should be belittling each other over deck types of course.


Beyond not over extending into board clears what challenges do you think the deck poses?
Zoo is more about maintaining board and because of stuff like Dire wolf and DoA, positioning matters a lot. Not only that but you have numerous 1 drop options so even early game you are making multiple plays and choosing which 1 drops to play in which match up and positioning them where based on Deathrattles and ordering. And of course anytime tapping is in the equation you are also playing with cards in your deck like Miracoli or Renolock (or any draw based deck).

And switching from board control to face strat is also trickier. With other aggressive decks, you generally board control for the first couple of turns and as soon as you are even slightly ahead you go face for the rest of the game. Zoo can be trading on board as late as turn 7 or switch to face game as early as turn 3-4.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Does it matter how hard or easy a Reno deck is to play, when the effect is still the same -- a single card instantly healing 20-29 HP? I can't think of any other card that heals that much.

It's too much power for one man to wield! *edit* The power belongs in a museum!
 

Levi

Banned
Why is Handlock being put at this pedestal of skill but Renolock isn't? I have been playing Handlock since I started playing the game (was my first "real" deck) and it's not harder to play than Renolock. Handlock also used to run the Leeroy combo when Emperor came in, that's not a new thing.

Probably just my internal bias, as I said before. I remember Handlock as having a high skill cap that was very hard to learn and play. I don't have that experience with Renolock. Memories alter, skill levels are different, the meta has changed..

Regardless, the only thing I really want to express is my wish that control players not look down their nose at aggro players and you agree with that. The rest of this is just a discussion of our opinions on these two decks, which I find a fun diversion.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Does it matter how hard or easy a Reno deck is to play, when the effect is still the same -- a single card instantly healing 20-29 HP? I can't think of any other card that heals that much.

It's too much power for one man to wield! *edit* The power belongs in a museum!
Renolock is mostly a win condition against aggro decks and even then you are kinda just hoping you draw it on time. That match up is just a crap shoot anyway and why there is so much salt both ways... aggro players hate losing to Reno and Reno players hate that they can't win without drawing Reno on time.

Against Midrange or Control decks, Reno is not as strong. If you are losing on board against a Midrange deck and you play Reno without changing the board state then you are still losing the game. In control match ups, 90% of the time I am playing Reno as a 4/6 body with some heal for tempo.


The other way I personally use Reno is against Dragon Priest. Because of the lack of burst from Dragon Priest, I play greedy with my taps... let them over extend with damage on my face and minions on board... then Reno Dirty Rat and board clear them for win. Can't do this against other Midrange decks because they have actual burst.
 
The other way I personally use Reno is against Dragon Priest. Because of the lack of burst from Dragon Priest, I play greedy with my taps... let them over extend with damage on my face and minions on board... then Reno Dirty Rat and board clear them for win. Can't do this against other Midrange decks because they have actual burst.

I did this then I got mind blasted plus holy smite... or double holy nova, or frickin malygos'd
 
I could swear that last thread levi was saying that aggro is brain dead. But now since he is playing it, it's suddenly the skilled deck and control decks are brain dead as they practically play themselves.
 

Levi

Banned
Man I thought you had him on ignore. No one even quoted him this time!

Yeah, I looked. I knew he hadn't given up bullying me and I was right. I'm fucking done here.

I said I don't play aggro.

I admitted I used to be a snob about control.

He makes shit up to make me look bad. He makes up hashtags about me. He uses insulting gifs to degrade me. He can't stop posting about me after being directly asked not to.

I'm not going to participate in a community where people like him can target me with a harassment campaign.

I'm done. I quit. He fucking wins. I'm pming a mod today to have my account deactivated. It's not healthy for me to try and have a conversation about a game and walk away wanting to kill myself.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Man just put him on ignore, no need to go to extremes here.

If you feel threatened then you should contact a mod about it. And if you feel like hurting yourself over a game/message forum posts/posters then you should probably talk to someone or see a professional. This is not a dismissive post but a post out of genuine concern, I am a practicing physician although not in this particular field.
 
Yeah, I looked. I knew he hadn't given up bullying me and I was right. I'm fucking done here.

I said I don't play aggro.

I admitted I used to be a snob about control.

He makes shit up to make me look bad. He makes up hashtags about me. He uses insulting gifs to degrade me. He can't stop posting about me after being directly asked not to.

I'm not going to participate in a community where people like him can target me with a harassment campaign.

I'm done. I quit. He fucking wins. I'm pming a mod today to have my account deactivated. It's not healthy for me to try and have a conversation about a game and walk away wanting to kill myself.

You post a ton here. I respond to some of the things you say. I haven't broken any rules, I don't think. It's definitely not harassment to respond and criticize some of the things you say.

I don't think I've ever made anything up about you. If I have said something wrong, feel free to correct me.

I think disagreement is healthy for discussion. I am sorry you feel that way. I'll try to remember to never criticize or disagree with you in the future.

edit:
I don't understand your beef with me. Feel free to PM me to explain.
 

patchday

Member
I like both you guys so I'm going to stay out of it. Plus my golden rule is to respect gafs and especially gafs that have been playing the game I'm interested in longer than me (so I can learn to git gud)
I'm supposed to be working atm but hit me up Levi later if you want to talk!!
 

gutshot

Member
Well, looks like he is gone.

Levi, if you come back and read this, please don't do anything to harm yourself. No one in here wants that, I guarantee you. Remember, in the end, it's just a children's card game and not worth getting that upset over.

If you ever want to chat, hit me up in game sometime.
 

joelseph

Member
If done early? You lose. That's why you have to play smart with the card. I should make renolock, it seems like a fun deck that requires a good amount of thought.

It is extremely fun to play. I think someone above mentioned something like "so many tiny combos" and it's true. There is so much interaction among your singletons that each game you are discovering new enjoyments.
 
I feel bad about Levi's reactions to my posts. It wasn't my intent to upset. I think renolock is a very high skill deck that requires a lot of thoughtful play and attention to detail. I am open to discuss this. I think I will take some time off from discussion and come back when I have cleared my head and hopefully see Levi back and in good health.
 

Schnauzer

Member
Why is casual mode so much harder than ranked mode?

Every time I play casual it's a Golden character with tier 1 decks. How is that casual. Ranked at 5 is easier and more varied. I only play enough to complete my dailies.

So I haven't played all the decks yet but...based on my personal experience.

Tier S: Pirate Shaman. Games I should lose I top deck double lava bursts and win. Pirate warrior would be doomed with to many taunts, but pirate shaman just does damage to the face. It seems insanely good. Easy quick wins, always my go to for completing dailies.

Tier 1: Reno Lock
Tier 2: Pirate Warrior, Dragon Reno Priest
Tier 3: Dragon Priest, Inspire Reno Priest, Reno Mage, Totem Shaman, Jade Druid, Jade Shaman

I can't seem to get Paladin to work no matter what I do. :-/ At least one of my two favorite classes is playable. Has anyone got a solid Paladin deck that's viable?

I have to say besides Paladin, this has been the most competitive tier we have had in a while.

Are there any new fun decks being found? Miracle Rogue bores me. I hate playing against it even though it's easy wins for the decks I generally play, but just time it takes them to fish up things just to die really bothers me, and makes me not want to be that guy.
 

joelseph

Member
I really like the inclusion of Shaku in miracle lists.

It does roll over to mirrors that run more OTK stuff like Quest or Red. But I find the extra body to do good work in this meta and the added burgle lets you keep pace with Renolock in late game. It makes the deck feel more like a tempo midrange deck, similar to the mage decks there were bouncing around a few seasons ago.
 

Pooya

Member
wow drama, rip.

---

In shadowverse there is a new mechanic, enhance. I think it's pretty cool and can work great in hearthstone. You have a low cost card, think 2-3, that does something but if you have a certain amount of mana, it automatically uses that amount and does something different. Forbidden cards I guess are similar but this is a 2 state card text and has more interesting possibilities than just doing one more of something for one more mana.

Say you have a card you can play as a 2 drop, late game it becomes a high value card. Something control could use. I really don't like that control is now just reno in this game, hopefully it's the end of it after rotation.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
I suppose this is as good of a time as any to just remind everybody to keep the toxicity in this thread to a minimum. Sometimes we can get a little overzealous with our opinions and be overly aggressive or somewhat mean-spirited not just with each other but with the game itself, and that can drag the tone and friendliness of this thread down a notch. Even I have been guilty of this from time to time.
 

Blizzard

Banned
wow drama, rip.

---

In shadowverse there is a new mechanic, enhance. I think it's pretty cool and can work great in hearthstone. You have a low cost card, think 2-3, that does something but if you have a certain amount of mana, it automatically uses that amount and does something different. Forbidden cards I guess are similar but this is a 2 state card text and has more interesting possibilities than just doing one more of something for one more mana.

Say you have a card you can play as a 2 drop, late game it becomes a high value card. Something control could use. I really don't like that control is now just reno in this game, hopefully it's the end of it after rotation.
Isn't Reno staying until November 12 since it was released late in 2015?
 

patapuf

Member
Is there any good rogue deck right now?

I'm trying some jade/Nzoth jade/miracle but it feels very inconsistent.

Is pirate rogue stronger?
 
I don't think Mobius did anything unreasonable. Maybe Levi has some stressful things going on in his life right now. I know that sometimes I "hide" in games when I feel overwhelmed, and if the games go poorly it can make me more upset than is reasonable.

Best wishes to you, Levi.
 

Nachos

Member
In shadowverse there is a new mechanic, enhance. I think it's pretty cool and can work great in hearthstone. You have a low cost card, think 2-3, that does something but if you have a certain amount of mana, it automatically uses that amount and does something different. Forbidden cards I guess are similar but this is a 2 state card text and has more interesting possibilities than just doing one more of something for one more mana.

Say you have a card you can play as a 2 drop, late game it becomes a high value card. Something control could use. I really don't like that control is now just reno in this game, hopefully it's the end of it after rotation.
That sounds cool. I remember seeing someone proposing that exact mechanic in the CustomHS subreddit a few months ago, so hopefully Blizzard took notice, assuming they didn't think of it already.

Isn't Reno staying until November 12 since it was released late in 2015?
No, it's the one expansion that won't get to enjoy the whole two years. It should be rotating out at the same time as TGT and BRM, which'll be when the next expansion comes out around March/April.
 
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