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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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B

Blizzard

Banned
pixelish said:
nah they were talking about how good rat pack and dispatch kodo are but they're too slow against the current aggro decks
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Ah sorry, I didn't realize those were hunter cards.

I was confused because he said that one Paladin deck is very statistically successful, then paused for a minute, and then mentioned the cards. I naively assumed the cards were clarifying on the paladin success. :p
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Undertaker was being played in ~40% of games
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Alright so what about stats on Patches?


And seems like they are going to be experimenting with moving Basic/Classic cards to Wild in the new rotation.

RIP in peace Azure Drake.


I have to say I am not a fan of some of their ideas to fix Arena.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Yaboosh said:
According to who?
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Based on past experiences and how the decks play out.

A greedier Midrange Hunter can definitely stomp on Renolock and Reno Mage.

Double Highmanes, all the Deathrattle minions under the sun, Ragnaros, double Call of the Wild. Good luck trying to control that curve pressure.


Of course it goes without saying that this Midrange Hunter would get stomped by Pirates but that was the point that Ben Brode was making.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Lone_Prodigy said:
The weirdest thing about making a quick Everyfin deck for a Murloc quest is winning games with it.
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It probably won't work with the current pirate meta, but pre-MSG I made this dumb as hell Wild Murlock deck with 28 murlocs and 2 PO's for the quest and got to something like Rank 13 with it. I probably could have gotten even higher.
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
Blizzard said:
With only 6 murlocs that seems pretty lightly murlock themed, though. I would be tempted to put a 7th murloc to max out the Anyfin power.
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you could put in a getaway kodo for more murlocs, but if you play that list you really aren't hampered for anyfin power (finja will almost always draw out 2 extras, its like 23 damage and a 6/6 stealth murloc even on the first anyfin). a murloc knight would be fun too, i've tried that before, it's significantly worse than mine with just old murk, finja, warleader, and chargers as those are significantly better than the other locks and actually help you survive to drop it
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
luoapp said:
What were their ideas? I couldn't catch the live Q&A.
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It's transcribed and I saw it on there. The two big ones I saw that rose a red flag were making Arena Standard format (so Wild cards are not available for Drafting) and less neutral minions so spell cards are more frequent (close to 50/50 minions and spells).

Making Arena Standard kinda robs it of its identity of being able to play with virtually any card and making it work. I guess if they want to make Arena competitive they kinda have to do it because with the increasing card pool you can't actually play around anything on average making it a less skillful game as it progresses. But it just removes the big funow aspect and storylines of Arenas.

The ratio of neutral minions to class spell is obviously off but making it closer to 50/50 is going to result in its own problems. The main one being that it puts a laser focus on class balance and class cards. It would create a wider gap in class balance. And you DO NOT want a class like Mage to have 50% of their deck be spells because their spells are usually great and they would dominate. On the other side, Paladin has a ton of 1 mana spells that are bad so they actually don't want a large amount of spells in their deck. I know why they are doing this.. it's so that there is less of a gap between player 1 and player 2 in win ratios and the game is less curvestone. But this solution is going to create new problems.


Suffice to say these are not the solutions I was looking for when they said changes are coming.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
luoapp said:
What were their ideas? I couldn't catch the live Q&A.
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There's a transcript here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/2155-developer-insights-live-potential-arena-ranked

Basically they might make Arena standard. They want it to feel more different than regular play. They might also emphasize less common/"useless" cards and fewer neutral minions, since they feel Arena ends up being heavily minionized.

They're also going to add Arena rankings for people who do 30+ runs a month.


Dahbomb raises a good point about some classes having good spells and some classes having questionable spells, though. If they're smart they could adjust the percentages for different classes.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
I hope they don't cut too many of the neutral minions out. I kind of appreciate that arena gives the opportunity of some cards that aren't constructed playable the chance to see the light of day. Like, Friendly Bartender is kind of a neat 2-drop, but it never really sees any constructed play. If you lean too heavily on synergy cards and make cards like these bad picks, it's sort of like, what's the point of a card like that anymore?
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
At least it's pretty much confirmed they're nerfing STB/Patches. Hopefully sooner than later.

Wish they had talked about weapons though. The entire system needs an overhaul.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
R9BaMUm.jpg
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wtf am I supposed to do against this meme board

If the answer is concede I guess I played it right
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Htown said:
How so?

First I'm hearing of that.
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Weapons have the same exact issue as charge, except weapons are better because they're typically overstatted and can also be used for board control more effectively than charge minions.

It's pretty well documented that Fiery War Axe is an insane card for board control. Then you start hitting face with it and it's even more ridiculous.
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
luoapp said:
I thought they are gonna tweak the rarity of cards, no? Change to standard doesn't solve the OPness of firestrike, actually making it worse since you have a smaller card pool now.
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They also talked about wanting basic commons like that to show up significantly less.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
BananasWithGuns said:
Weapons have the same exact issue as charge, except weapons are better because they're typically overstatted and can also be used for board control more effectively than charge minions.

It's pretty well documented that Fiery War Axe is an insane card for board control. Then you start hitting face with it and it's even more ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Weapons have the drawback that you have to tank face damage when you use them for board control and when they are used as burn to hit your opponent's face they are slower at this than direct damage. So the concept is not inherently busted.
 
B

bjaelke

Member
re Arena: The changes mentioned in the Q&A are just some of the stuff they have planned (short and long term). There should be a blog post up Soon™
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
You know, as much as I want STB/Patches nerfed, it's a shame that Rogue is going to take a hit from it. STB really should have been a Rogue card, I'm actually a bit flabbergasted that it isn't.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Blizzard said:
There's a transcript here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/2155-developer-insights-live-potential-arena-ranked

Basically they might make Arena standard. They want it to feel more different than regular play. They might also emphasize less common/"useless" cards and fewer neutral minions, since they feel Arena ends up being heavily minionized.

They're also going to add Arena rankings for people who do 30+ runs a month.


Dahbomb raises a good point about some classes having good spells and some classes having questionable spells, though. If they're smart they could adjust the percentages for different classes.
Click to expand...

30+ runs a month is pretty intense.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Charge is not inherently busted either imo.
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It's not inherently busted at all, cards just need to be designed around what it actually is and not this inaccurate pre-launch concept of it. Pretty much any charge design can get costed to where it's better than unplayable and worse than broken.

fertygo said:
Its not believable thinking Patches below 40% of meta tbh
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This statement is like the most succinct possible demonstration of why HS player comments about the metagame are all noise.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
We don't know either way if Patches is above or below 40% of the meta.

But Patches is in the meta game more than enough where even Blizzard is concerned about it. If VS's stats can be expanded to the whole population then at least at high ranks... Patches is in more than 40% of decks especially if the Midrange Shaman players are also running Patches.


One more stat that Blizzard threw out which no one is talking about is that Standard is twice as popular as Wild. That's actually much better than I expected for Wild given that some people were saying it's like a wasteland of running into the same people over and over again. That pretty much means that more people play Wild than most other card games in their entirety.
 
L

luoapp

Member
charlequin said:
This statement is like the most succinct possible demonstration of why HS player comments about the metagame are all noise.
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They are two different things. Bliz is looking at the overall stats, and an individual player's feeling is about his/her run in that month, and we all know how different meta can be at different ranks. While it is good for Bliz to try balance the overall meta, it is a taller order (IMH) to balance the game at different rank ranges.
 
L

Lone_Prodigy

Member
BrightLightLava said:
Murloc decks don't always work, but it's an absolute blast when they do.
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ZealousD said:
It probably won't work with the current pirate meta, but pre-MSG I made this dumb as hell Wild Murlock deck with 28 murlocs and 2 PO's for the quest and got to something like Rank 13 with it. I probably could have gotten even higher.
Click to expand...

Yeah if I can get some of the Murlocs to stick and get a godly draw, I can drop Everyfin on Turn 4 and threaten lethal. But most of the time I just vomit my hand and concede after I get hit with AoE.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Dahbomb said:
One more stat that Blizzard threw out which no one is talking about is that Standard is twice as popular as Wild. That's actually much better than I expected for Wild given that some people were saying it's like a wasteland of running into the same people over and over again. That pretty much means that more people play Wild than most other card games in their entirety.
Click to expand...

The difference between Wild and Standard is actually pretty small right now. Standard has 5 sets and 3 adventures in it, while Wild has 6 sets and 4 adventures. That's like only a 15-20% difference in the available card pool.

Wild will look very different from Standard once we get the next set early this year. So it'll be interesting to see how things change.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
ZealousD said:
The difference between Wild and Standard is actually pretty small right now. Standard has 5 sets and 3 adventures in it, while Wild has 6 sets and 4 adventures. That's like only a 15-20% difference in the available card pool.

Wild will look very different from Standard once we get the next set early this year. So it'll be interesting to see how things change.
Click to expand...
That's one of the things they said, that they want Wild to feel different from Standard, which should happen once the adventures rotate out.

I was thinking back over the Q&A session, and overall as a very new player 2-3 weeks in, I was pretty happy with what I heard. It sounds like the lead guy is actually pretty passionate about the game and seeing it succeed. It also sounds like they do a lot of playtesting, they're aware of a lot of statistics, and they're at least trying to consider some community feedback. It also sounded like a good many people are still working on the team, and at least two more card sets are planned.

They may not make perfect decisions, but I think they're make a good faith effort and that's about all I can ask.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
Dahbomb said:
We don't know either way if Patches is above or below 40% of the meta.

But Patches is in the meta game more than enough where even Blizzard is concerned about it. If VS's stats can be expanded to the whole population then at least at high ranks... Patches is in more than 40% of decks especially if the Midrange Shaman players are also running Patches.


One more stat that Blizzard threw out which no one is talking about is that Standard is twice as popular as Wild. That's actually much better than I expected for Wild given that some people were saying it's like a wasteland of running into the same people over and over again. That pretty much means that more people play Wild than most other card games in their entirety.
Click to expand...

Maybe they just said twice as a shortcut to meaning a lot more popular.

Unless the balance is way way way way heavier in the low ranks than standard because from what I can tell by watching others legend usually bottoms out in the 100-200 range in wild NA.

So maybe there are just tons of people playing rank 25-15 and almost nobody going the distance.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Blizzard said:
That's one of the things they said, that they want Wild to feel different from Standard, which should happen once the adventures rotate out.

I was thinking back over the Q&A session, and overall as a very new player 2-3 weeks in, I was pretty happy with what I heard. It sounds like the lead guy is actually pretty passionate about the game and seeing it succeed. It also sounds like they do a lot of playtesting, they're aware of a lot of statistics, and they're at least trying to consider some community feedback. It also sounded like a good many people are still working on the team, and at least two more card sets are planned.

They may not make perfect decisions, but I think they're make a good faith effort and that's about all I can ask.
Click to expand...

Clearly you're not jaded enough yet. Don't worry, though. Spend a few more months in this thread. You'll learn.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
ZealousD said:
The difference between Wild and Standard is actually pretty small right now. Standard has 5 sets and 3 adventures in it, while Wild has 6 sets and 4 adventures. That's like only a 15-20% difference in the available card pool.

Wild will look very different from Standard once we get the next set early this year. So it'll be interesting to see how things change.
Click to expand...


Yeah once people can only play reno and dragon decks (likely maybe) in wild i think it will gain a decent amount of people.
 
F

fertygo

Member
Most of community always calm down when Brode talking, despite still gonna bitching

Ben Brode is just that charismatic

And they still gonna nerfing too late, new unfun broken card introducing, people bitching again, that's the cycle.
 
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