Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm looking forward to finley being gone. I am tired of playing against hunter hero power in so many decks.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Here is a way to make shaman hero power less infuriating to play or play against.
You can't roll same totem back to back. Say, you rolled taunt this turn, it dies, next time you hero power, it can only be the other 3 whether your first totem is alive or not and next turn it resets, essentially put any totem on a 1 turn cool down, of course if you have all the other 3 totems on board it doesn't matter, current rules still apply. This makes it more consistent for the shaman player, you increase your chance of getting the totem you want on second attempt, this makes the opponent to be able to play around totems. If I kill that spell totem or taunt totem this turn, he can't get it again next turn.
You can't roll same totem back to back. Say, you rolled taunt this turn, it dies, next time you hero power, it can only be the other 3 whether your first totem is alive or not and next turn it resets, essentially put any totem on a 1 turn cool down, of course if you have all the other 3 totems on board it doesn't matter, current rules still apply. This makes it more consistent for the shaman player, you increase your chance of getting the totem you want on second attempt, this makes the opponent to be able to play around totems. If I kill that spell totem or taunt totem this turn, he can't get it again next turn.
That's boring and exactly like Paladin's hero power.
SonicXtreme
Member
all the totems shouldve had 1 health since they have effects to make up for the deficiency anyway
BananasWithGuns
Member
Are we really talking about nerfing the Shaman hero power?
It's long been considered the worst, even to the point where when Finley came out people thought it would become an auto include in Shaman.
It's long been considered the worst, even to the point where when Finley came out people thought it would become an auto include in Shaman.
No it should be remade not nerfed. Same for Hunter and its toolkit.
bronkonagurski
Member
People still play Control Warrior in 2017? Just beat one in a fatigue match with my Jade Shaman.
Hero powers are naturally balanced to be something that if it was a card would be a 0 mana card.
Mage hero power = Moonfire
Paladin Token = Tinyfin
Most of the Shaman tokens are 0 mana cards too (the Taunt totem is basically Target Dummy)
Others don't exactly exist as card but are worse than 1 mana cards.
Rogue Hero power is a worse Spirit Claw or Light's Justice.
Druid Hero power is a worse Claw.
Hunter hero power is probably worth around 0.5 mana because Sinister Strike is 1 mana and it's 3 damage. Warlock hero power is somewhere between 0.5 and 1 which is why it's the strongest.
An example of a "balanced" hero power would be Inner Rage for Warrior. It does one ping but only to minions and if they survive they get buffed in damage. Mage hero power would have advantage in that it can be used to target face and can ping targets in advance without worrying about buffing them (so ping a 5 HP minion before Flamestrike turn) but can't really be used on own minions to buff them up. It might still be too strong but this is generally the base line that they would want for a hero power.
This is also why Shaman's hero power is kinda lackluster and swingy because 3 of the options are 0 mana minions but the 4th one is closer to a 1 mana minion. The Spell Damage totem would IMO be kinda broken at 0 mana... it would enable a lot of OTK combos especially with something like Freeze Mage.
Mage hero power = Moonfire
Paladin Token = Tinyfin
Most of the Shaman tokens are 0 mana cards too (the Taunt totem is basically Target Dummy)
Others don't exactly exist as card but are worse than 1 mana cards.
Rogue Hero power is a worse Spirit Claw or Light's Justice.
Druid Hero power is a worse Claw.
Hunter hero power is probably worth around 0.5 mana because Sinister Strike is 1 mana and it's 3 damage. Warlock hero power is somewhere between 0.5 and 1 which is why it's the strongest.
An example of a "balanced" hero power would be Inner Rage for Warrior. It does one ping but only to minions and if they survive they get buffed in damage. Mage hero power would have advantage in that it can be used to target face and can ping targets in advance without worrying about buffing them (so ping a 5 HP minion before Flamestrike turn) but can't really be used on own minions to buff them up. It might still be too strong but this is generally the base line that they would want for a hero power.
This is also why Shaman's hero power is kinda lackluster and swingy because 3 of the options are 0 mana minions but the 4th one is closer to a 1 mana minion. The Spell Damage totem would IMO be kinda broken at 0 mana... it would enable a lot of OTK combos especially with something like Freeze Mage.
yeah if we had 0 mana spell damage card it would definitely see lots of of play. Healing totem depending on the board state can worth a lot too, it's just inconsistent.
With how many synergistic cards they've printed, spell damage is far too swingy in shaman, rotation won't change anything either. Spirit claws, portal, thing from below will make sure shaman is top class still. They have the best midrange minions too, they only lose early game, well no one has early game if they nerf pirates too, so I'm not sure how relevant that will be. Best tempo one sided aoe, best single target removals, best weapons, best creature quality. They'd need some nerfs. Actually it was came up on reddit a while back after nerfs and Iksar said that they're thinking about future direction of shaman and what they should be weak at, we'll see what they do. I think warrior and shaman both need druid style nerfs for the meta to change in a big way, they're not affected by rotation very much unlike everyone else is.
With how many synergistic cards they've printed, spell damage is far too swingy in shaman, rotation won't change anything either. Spirit claws, portal, thing from below will make sure shaman is top class still. They have the best midrange minions too, they only lose early game, well no one has early game if they nerf pirates too, so I'm not sure how relevant that will be. Best tempo one sided aoe, best single target removals, best weapons, best creature quality. They'd need some nerfs. Actually it was came up on reddit a while back after nerfs and Iksar said that they're thinking about future direction of shaman and what they should be weak at, we'll see what they do. I think warrior and shaman both need druid style nerfs for the meta to change in a big way, they're not affected by rotation very much unlike everyone else is.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Saying Shaman isn't effected by the rotation is just...not true. They lose two of the best minions they've ever gotten in Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem. Plus Thunder Bluff Valiant as well which has been a pretty relevant card for Shaman the past year and a half.
Let's look at the most relevant cards for Shaman once the rotation hits. There's no denying that Spirit Claws, Thing from Below and Maelstrom Portal will still be good and relevant but even still those cards are getting weaker. Azure Drake is not going to survive this rotation which makes Spirit Claws less consistent, not to mention that it's been a minion that Shaman has run since the beginning of time. Shaman is also losing its best totem to fuel Thing from Below and while it's feasible Blizzard might add a new totem in the next expansion, as it stands now Shaman is going to be back to a selection of totems with 0 attack which, while they can have powerful effects they are typically useless when behind which is what Shaman struggled with so much pre-TGT. Maelstrom Portal will remain a good card going forward but Azure Drake has also been a good fuel for it as well which helped Shaman create big swing turns. Now they'll be relying on Thalnos and Wrath of Air Totem unless there ends up being other appealing spell damage minions for Shaman going forward.
After that you're looking at stuff like White Eyes, Flamewreathed Faceless and...I don't know, Jinyu Waterspeaker/Master of Evolution? I expect White Eyes to be pretty much a staple going forward with Shaman likely losing Azure Drake and needing to get slower since they'll be losing Trogg, Golem and likely pirates. Flamewreathed is a fringe card that is rarely seen outside of aggro decks and I expect play for that to almost dry up completely going forward. Jinyu Waterspeaker and Master of Evolution are solid cards but nowhere near the power level of what Shaman is losing.
I'm just a bit mystified that anyone could genuinely think Shaman is losing next to nothing with the rotation. I mean, what is Shaman going to be running at the 1 and 2 mana slots if/when pirates are nerfed? Argent Squire, Mistress of Mixtures and....hell I don't even know for the 2 mana slot, Eternal Sentinel and maybe Jade Claws if you want to count that? To me it's sounding a lot like the old days of Zombie Chow and Haunted Creeper when Shaman was in the basement. While I don't expect them to be as bad as they were pre-TGT, they are definitely going to be quite a bit worse off after the rotation unless the next expansion fills some major gaps.
I also think it's worth mentioning that right now midrange Shaman is not nearly as dominant as it was even 2 months ago. There are quite a few decks, especially high tier ones, that are favored against it.
Let's look at the most relevant cards for Shaman once the rotation hits. There's no denying that Spirit Claws, Thing from Below and Maelstrom Portal will still be good and relevant but even still those cards are getting weaker. Azure Drake is not going to survive this rotation which makes Spirit Claws less consistent, not to mention that it's been a minion that Shaman has run since the beginning of time. Shaman is also losing its best totem to fuel Thing from Below and while it's feasible Blizzard might add a new totem in the next expansion, as it stands now Shaman is going to be back to a selection of totems with 0 attack which, while they can have powerful effects they are typically useless when behind which is what Shaman struggled with so much pre-TGT. Maelstrom Portal will remain a good card going forward but Azure Drake has also been a good fuel for it as well which helped Shaman create big swing turns. Now they'll be relying on Thalnos and Wrath of Air Totem unless there ends up being other appealing spell damage minions for Shaman going forward.
After that you're looking at stuff like White Eyes, Flamewreathed Faceless and...I don't know, Jinyu Waterspeaker/Master of Evolution? I expect White Eyes to be pretty much a staple going forward with Shaman likely losing Azure Drake and needing to get slower since they'll be losing Trogg, Golem and likely pirates. Flamewreathed is a fringe card that is rarely seen outside of aggro decks and I expect play for that to almost dry up completely going forward. Jinyu Waterspeaker and Master of Evolution are solid cards but nowhere near the power level of what Shaman is losing.
I'm just a bit mystified that anyone could genuinely think Shaman is losing next to nothing with the rotation. I mean, what is Shaman going to be running at the 1 and 2 mana slots if/when pirates are nerfed? Argent Squire, Mistress of Mixtures and....hell I don't even know for the 2 mana slot, Eternal Sentinel and maybe Jade Claws if you want to count that? To me it's sounding a lot like the old days of Zombie Chow and Haunted Creeper when Shaman was in the basement. While I don't expect them to be as bad as they were pre-TGT, they are definitely going to be quite a bit worse off after the rotation unless the next expansion fills some major gaps.
I also think it's worth mentioning that right now midrange Shaman is not nearly as dominant as it was even 2 months ago. There are quite a few decks, especially high tier ones, that are favored against it.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Wait when did they say they'd get rid of classic cards like Azure Drake?
Midrange shamy not even play Thunderbluff anymore, they can go Jade and its great. These Midrange Jade not even play Trogg, they play pirate but stil.... when you think like that, Midrange Jade shamy isn't lose anything, control Jade Shaman only lose ED, that might get replacement? Devolve isn't too bad for filling spot
Honestly I see Shaman still top dog after rotation, their library is goddamn good, no one better tbh
They lose Trogg and Golem but everyone else power level goes down too.
Honestly I see Shaman still top dog after rotation, their library is goddamn good, no one better tbh
They lose Trogg and Golem but everyone else power level goes down too.
lack of broken early game isn't relevant when no one else has them. Other classes managed without broken 1 drop into broken 2 drop for years, shaman will manage... If they gave another class something absurd in next set, you'd have a point but they probably won't...
Shaman's problem before was lack of any strong synergy, like paladin is now, which they have plenty now in many different ways none of which are affected by rotation. It's not even close to paladin when they lost everything in rotation, early game, synergy, they had nothing left. Shaman classic cards are actually quite strong unlike paladin.
I guess face shaman becomes worse but others don't. Jade Shaman lists now are going value oriented cutting trogg/golem for devolve and more value. You still beat face warrior without that package and it makes it better against control.
No one plays thunderbluff anymore anyway. Why play that when you can effortlessly fit in jade cards which are just straight up better and faster. Shaman has the best jade cards, all of their cards do something instant when they're played unlike others. They don't get hit on tempo much and they complement their other OP cards very well, you don't really have to build your entire deck around jades like druid has to, it's almost like any other shaman deck still, that's the problem Blizzard has mentioned too, there might be several different shaman decks now, but all of them feel very similar to play against. None of this is impacted by the rotation.
I don't think it's a great idea to play against spirit claws and thing from below and other non sense for 1 more year in 20-30 percent of matches, that needs changing. I think they should nerf new cards, their classic is fine except hex maybe when even execute got the nerf.
Shaman's problem before was lack of any strong synergy, like paladin is now, which they have plenty now in many different ways none of which are affected by rotation. It's not even close to paladin when they lost everything in rotation, early game, synergy, they had nothing left. Shaman classic cards are actually quite strong unlike paladin.
I guess face shaman becomes worse but others don't. Jade Shaman lists now are going value oriented cutting trogg/golem for devolve and more value. You still beat face warrior without that package and it makes it better against control.
No one plays thunderbluff anymore anyway. Why play that when you can effortlessly fit in jade cards which are just straight up better and faster. Shaman has the best jade cards, all of their cards do something instant when they're played unlike others. They don't get hit on tempo much and they complement their other OP cards very well, you don't really have to build your entire deck around jades like druid has to, it's almost like any other shaman deck still, that's the problem Blizzard has mentioned too, there might be several different shaman decks now, but all of them feel very similar to play against. None of this is impacted by the rotation.
I don't think it's a great idea to play against spirit claws and thing from below and other non sense for 1 more year in 20-30 percent of matches, that needs changing. I think they should nerf new cards, their classic is fine except hex maybe when even execute got the nerf.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Paladin has synergies, don't you wanna play Bubble Paladin?
I don't like burn classes having hard removal altogether. It's okay in rogue because theirs sucks but Shaman and Mage should only have one or the other. Priest is a good example on how to do it right.
GetDigitized
Member
Need someone in EU to complete the dual a friend and you both get gold quest. Pm me.Thanks.
EDIt- got someone thanks.
EDIt- got someone thanks.
bronkonagurski
Member
Interesting. Yeah the guy I played was using double Gorehowl. I mean, it was a super close game, it wasn't like I routed him.
It was really fun to win a game like that because a lot of times, I get overwhelmed by the decision-making for a game that goes that deep.
Is it actually possible for a "newbie" to play this game, I played a bit when it came out and am trying to get into it. Looked up and made budget decks and at Casual level 25 am constantly having my ass handed to me with people who decks are comprised mostly of rares and legendaries
BigJonsson
Member
I need a friend to challenge in NA 
BigJonsson#1492
Edit - And done
BigJonsson#1492
Edit - And done
TetraxShards
Member
Don't play Casual, play Ranked. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it's true. In wood league you'll encounter fewer players with strong decks. You should be able to get to rank 20 there without too much trouble. After that there's a logjam because you have people farming their golden heroes, but it's easier from 18 to about 10 or so.
thanks for the tip!
If I recall correctly, casual matches based on collection size and ranked matches based on rating.
This SHOULD mean that you get less legendary-stacked decks in casual, but I'm not sure if it's true.
In ranked you'll still run into a bunch of legendary decks at rank 20 unfortunately. 21-25 maybe not, and you can always instant surrender if you don't feel like dealing with them so they move up to 20 quickly. Once you're at 20, you can never lose that rank.
Hate to break it to you but it will take a lot of time and patience if you want to even stand a chance of getting the required cards in this game. Once you're done with adventures the only thing left to do is Arena or ladder. Ladder is easier at the lower levels, but extremely hard higher up.
First off, if you don't have some of the popular cards right now, you will struggle to get past 20. No matter what someone tells you, it's just too time-consuming to level up with basic cards vs newer ones. Secondly, even if you get some of the good cards (which can cost a lot of dust), you will still have to learn to play the game - and veterans have you beat in that for now.
You could also do arena, which may seem easier (since everyone creates a 'randomised' deck), but it's actually much more tougher than Ladder.
tl;dr: Yes you can play this game, but don't expect to be any good anytime soon (not because of your skill, but because of how badly this game is designed for new players).
All of this is ofc not valid if you decide to spend money.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
That is old advice. The casual matchmaking has a pool for new players and ranked just matches you with whoever is within your rank. It might work for a few ranks but once you start playing rank 20s it's probably worse than casual.
I think it is hard for new players, like any game, but if you learn the game and work towards a decent deck it doesn't take that long. I think the hardest part for new players to accept, as well as some veterans tbh, is that you can't win every match. That is how card games are though and it's not meant to be otherwise.
New players have to have somewhat lower expectations on win rates. If you're close to 50%, that is actually pretty good. Not ranking up doesn't mean you're failing.
Thanks for the info, didn't realize I was missing cards due to the whole "standard" vs "wild" formats
I don't mind putting money in for adventures (I don't spend on randonmness of the cards) but I remember being quite underwhelmed when I purchased Nax, I recall beating it very quickly and using the same deck for almost all of it
I don't mind putting money in for adventures (I don't spend on randonmness of the cards) but I remember being quite underwhelmed when I purchased Nax, I recall beating it very quickly and using the same deck for almost all of it
Glass Shark
Banned
After trying to get into Hearthstone several times over the past few years, something finally clicked and I've played it every day for the past few weeks. Really enjoying the learning process, and I've bought all the Adventures to build my collection up.
One thing that really annoys me is people who take their whole turn just for the sake of it even if they don't have anything to decide on. Feel like there should be a way to prevent against that somehow.
Just going through a very similar process, it seems the obvious path is to get League of Explorers first. A lot of really popular and good cards are in that Adventure. And honestly you can make some solid decks with just the Basic cards plus all Adventure cards. So if you're someone like me who's willing to put in the money, buy all the Adventures. (Unfortunately you can't by Naxxramus with real money anymore, but those cards are in Wild anyway. If you only care about Standard, don't bother with it. But if you want them for completion's sake, you can buy the wings with gold. I'm using my gold on Naxx wings since I don't like playing Arena and I just buy packs with real money anyway.)
One thing that really annoys me is people who take their whole turn just for the sake of it even if they don't have anything to decide on. Feel like there should be a way to prevent against that somehow.
Just going through a very similar process, it seems the obvious path is to get League of Explorers first. A lot of really popular and good cards are in that Adventure. And honestly you can make some solid decks with just the Basic cards plus all Adventure cards. So if you're someone like me who's willing to put in the money, buy all the Adventures. (Unfortunately you can't by Naxxramus with real money anymore, but those cards are in Wild anyway. If you only care about Standard, don't bother with it. But if you want them for completion's sake, you can buy the wings with gold. I'm using my gold on Naxx wings since I don't like playing Arena and I just buy packs with real money anyway.)
xZoneHunter
Member
So yeah, this just happened...
What's the best meta deck against the aggro/midrange shamans? So far renolock works most of the time in my opinion.
I really wouldn't like that. I'm a pretty slow player most of the time because i like to think things over for a moment. All too often have i missed lethal of made a misplay because i didn't think things over.
What's the best meta deck against the aggro/midrange shamans? So far renolock works most of the time in my opinion.
I really wouldn't like that. I'm a pretty slow player most of the time because i like to think things over for a moment. All too often have i missed lethal of made a misplay because i didn't think things over.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Damn, you should have finished with poweroverwhelming on it, then faceless.
Imagine the information it gives to an opponent if sometimes the game forces a turn end.
It could be the counter that shows when you get your next +10 bonus from winning 3 games.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Yeah I think that's what it is, thanks.
Keyser Soze
Member
It's non stop gold portraits for me at Rank 11 (Wild) right now. I was hoping for an easy run to Rank 5 (I want 500 dust!!), but it is not happening for me.
Also one such Gold player used this card...
...to pul Malygos from their hand and murder my face with spells. I am guessing that wasn't just blind luck... what is that deck?
Also one such Gold player used this card...
...to pul Malygos from their hand and murder my face with spells. I am guessing that wasn't just blind luck... what is that deck?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Oh yeah, I forgot about Ancestor's Call. That was a very popular meme deck card for being somewhat playable, very similar in status to Astral Communion.
An old fashioned Ancestor's Call Malygos wild deck with the newer OP shaman cards sounds very fun to try out, now that you mention it.
An old fashioned Ancestor's Call Malygos wild deck with the newer OP shaman cards sounds very fun to try out, now that you mention it.
It's non stop gold portraits for me at Rank 11 (Wild) right now. I was hoping for an easy run to Rank 5 (I want 500 dust!!), but it is not happening for me.
Also one such Gold player used this card...
...to pul Malygos from their hand and murder my face with spells. I am guessing that wasn't just blind luck... what is that deck?
Its an old gimmick deck. It is (Or was) really inconsistent, but it can be a lot of fun. Typically referred to as a OTK Malygos Shaman deck. Here is an example version:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/719672-rank-1-wild-legend-malygos-shaman-basic-guide
Keyser Soze
Member
Thanks. That looks exactly like the deck that was played against me.
I think I might give the deck a go. I have close to everything expect Ancestor's Call - tbh I never knew it existed until today. I think I can afford to craft one as the deck seems fun/intresting to play.
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